I took about a year off because I was tired of trying to justify playing in a virtual world with nothing to do except kill things. No housing. Afterthough crafting. Dev driven economies (read cash shop).
I really tried to play some of these newer mmos without combat and it was so lacking, I couldnt justify the time invested.
FFXIV came along and changed that. I havent done any combat in weeks and I am having the most fun Ive had in an mmo since swg. And with housing coming the first patch and tons of other non combat activities on the way, it has made me a happy mmo gamer again.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard One one, simple reason for me. Because they stopped being fun.
They stopped being fun for a reason, was it always the same reason? Probably not.....
Well sure, the reasons were different for every game I left, sometimes the game play changed drastically (DAOC and the TOA expansion), or I felt the end game was too focused on raids and PVE grinding (WOW, RIFT, and most other newer theme park MMO's), or I accomplished all that I could within my real life limitations (EVE).
But at the end of the day, regardless of the specific reason, what it does really boil down to is they all stopped entertaining me and it was time to move on to another title.
Once in a while I went back, most notably DAOC, WOW, and EVE for a 2nd (or 3rd) long run, but most of the time once I moved on I never returned, as I doubt most games really change fundamentally from what they started with.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I will use your list. I will leave out the games I didn't play.
UO - I honestly don't remember, it was so long ago. I do remember I hated how my spells needed reagents.
EQ - New games came out that I wanted to try. Also, after so many years, friends that I became close with slowly started to leave and I would just end up depressed when I signed in and didn't see all the names that were once there.
EQ2 - Was too easy. While I can/could/did accept that from other games, it felt like a betrayal since it was using the Everquest name.
WoW - I hit end-game with my mage, did raids for a short time and then left just before BC was released. It became really monotonous after a short period of time.
GW - Did everything I wanted to.
Lotro - The population became really low and was hard to find groups.
Vanguard - My computer couldn't run it and still can't without a lot of problems.
AoC - I liked the adult theme and combat but I couldn't connect with any of the classes.
DCUO - Was really short on content, I just ran out of things to do.
DDO - Low population.
Tera - The quest grind killed it for me. It made it feel more like a chore to level in Tera than it ever did in Everquest.
Rift - Classes felt homogeneous, color palette, lore felt like it was made to fit the game instead of the game being made to fit the lore.
SWTOR - Finished the story lines I wanted to play.
TSW - The rigid animations and bad character graphics made it really hard for me to feel connected to my character. It eventually became too much for me. (Which is odd since I have no problem with bad graphics, I think this is more because they were simply really ugly.)
Neverwinter - Not enough character progression.
FF XIV - It constantly felt like the UI was fighting me, became really frustrating really fast. I remember almost a 5sec delay just to get the Menu window to open, actually navigating it made me want to sit on a knife.
FF XIV ARR - Feels like I have played this game too many times before.
GW2 - No end-game, lack of trinity or more defined roles (I always play healers/crowd control/support in games and this felt really lacking), dungeons were painful and simply not fun, zerg.
UO - Boredom set in and graphics were really changing at the time, dare I say I was more interested in 3D single players games?
EQ - Spawn camping, grinding, exp loss, DKP (yes I know not a feature of the game, but it was quite prevalent and I hated it), Plus why play EQ when you could play Warcraft/Starcraft/D2?
EQ2 - WoW was and is better in every way.
WoW - Just got tired. Had left and come back multiple times, but finally partway through MoP I just didn't care anymore.
GW - Was a pretty decent game overall, but I never could give it the nod over WoW because there was no sense of world, everything being zoned sucked and no jumping.
Lotro - Everything feeling unnatural and not fluent
Vanguard - worst annimations. Yeah and bad UI, pretty bland game world, buggy even years later, runs like crap even years later and two new rigs. I seriously have like 10x the power I did back when it released, but it still runs like I'm trying to play it on a TI-83.
AoC - game had only 20 levels of finished content - yeah this. Tortage was like awesome sauce with crack sprinkled on top of it. I was so hyped. Then all of a sudden I'm like . . . errr, so what's going on here? I never did bring myself to go back, I had been disappointed so badly that I just couldn't.
Warhammer online - PvP was okay, but not good enough to counter balance the lack of PvE. If you're going to focus on PvP, please do it right and go all the way.
DDO - No world, game feels a little dull. Little motivation to play.
Tera - I think it's an ugly game even on max settings, and has abysmal combat. I must not be playing the same game others are when I hear them talk about it. i've reinstalled and played it four different times because of how much people praise it just because I thought I was missing something. Nope, I wasn't, it just sucks.
Rift - Trion nerfed the best thing about the game, the awesome soul system. Once they took away the variety and interest of making fun builds I hate little reason to not go back to WoW. I actually really liked Rift until they started nerfing interesting builds so that they could pigeon hole roles to make things easier to balance. I think a lot of people felt this way as the population dropped off right around that time.
SWTOR - One of the worst games ever. I can't fathom how people can even stomach a single play through. It's just disgusting right off the bat. Can't stand anything about it, animations, character models, environments, the way you interact with things - everything just feels bad. Hate it.
TSW - I hated the "well if you want to do X, you need this build." What's the point of a customizable skill system if people won't let me in their group because I want to try funky builds? Boring.
Neverwinter - combat had not enough choices, and to few classes. This plus lackluster world, game felt very disjointed and not D&D enough for me.
GW2 - nonadvancement at max level ( cgaracter, gear or. Story) and non trinity combat is to chaotic in groups... While these reasons did stop me from being heavily vested in this game, I didn't quit and uninstall until they added more ascended gear. Not because I didn't want progression, but because their idea of pretty much everything was "grind forever" and I didn't want to do it.
If you want to play games that get straight to the fun, im sure there are plenty of games for you to choose from. And don't play coy with me. You know what crowd im referring to. And what you call "tedious", i call game play. i had great fun going on "key" quests and helping fellow guild mates get attuned for such things. Like i said, you just want the reward with very little time invested. Jump on, kill a boss, collect reward, move to the next game to rinse, repeat.
Psst. thats the "crowd" im referring to
And my posts should have made it obvious that I'm not part of that crowd. But I guess your defense against people who do not totally agree with you is aggression, insulting and assumptions.
You answered to none of my arguments, and ignored most of what I said.
Can we rewind and try again?
I see what your trying to do. Big fail on your part, but at least i saw it. You have no arguments. Just a lot of statements. And my response to those statements are posted above. If you dont feel that you are apart of this crowd then thats fine. However some of your statements would say otherwise.
Just an FYI, one of the key words i look for when identifying the "Crowd" is Tedious. The crowd used that word to talk about leveling or traveling or just general game play features that the crowd finds to time consuming and inconvenient.
Friends quit. I played on and off for a while, but got old aftr a while
DAoC
Same as EQ2. Can only play for so long without friends playing with you
FFXI
Didn't make it passed level 10. Hated the game. Controls were sluggish, combat was slow. Game was EQ done wrong (for me)
Shadowbane..........
Didn't quit. Was "forced" to. Game was shutdown
DDO
Still have installed, but rarely play. Main complaint at the time was the ability to solo. With henchman, it is easier. But same ole same ole, without friends, boring.
WOW
Game was ok during Vanilla. Awesome in BC and WOTL, crap in Cata, and let's not talk about Pandaria.
Rift
After doing the whole themepark thing with WoW, I didn't give this game much of a go.
Warhammer
Great game, but lacked polish. Too much was left out, and imbalance was rampant
GW2
Combat is bleh. After the story, not much else to do. PvP in this game sucks (IMO)
Vanguard
Tried the game, played like EQ. Which is a good and bad thing. Good if it was 10 years go. Bad after playing easy stuff like WoW
City of Heroes
Game got repetitive. Loved it, but you can only do the same thing over and over until you are blue in the face
Champions
Loved game, but after reaching cap and running out of stuff to do, you generally don't want to roll another character.
Matrix Online
Let's be honest, SOE did what they could, but the game was buggy and not ready.
Reached cap, started grinding tokens for "epic" gear to do heroic dungeons. Got into an heroic, and found out how unbalanced it was at that point in time. Not much reason to continue to play when you can't progress your character. They've done a lot of retooling, but too little, too late.
FFXIV*
Tentative reason to quit: Will eventually reach the point where my friends aren't playing. I'll probably play for a while once they do, since I love crafting.
Will Quit: When EQN (Landmark) comes out.
* Yes, I'm planning to quit eventually.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
In my case the reasons are very diverse.. But allways something irritating me and preventing me to have fun.
AC - EQ was more fun
Was challenging to read past this line simply due to how utterly slow and boring EQ really was back then.
However, a thread like this will never really work for the same reason no real discussions will work on these forums.
First is all the people who will say "Because it stopped being fun" without realize that sentence literally says nothing. They don't even know what they find fun and don't so they cant' analyze or verbalize the reasons that a game stopped being fun so that is all they can say. This is a major problem on these forums. Certain people don't understand there are always exact reasons on why something is or isn't fun to them and they simply don't have the ability to figure out what those things are.
The other reason is all the people, such as my first sentence, who will so disagree with what others like/don't like that they won't be able to discuss things without getting into it with others as to why their opinions are not correct.
TL:DR
MMORPG.com is not a place for any actual discussion, but instead for threads overly praising or overly hating on any given title and then yelling at all those who disagree.
In my case the reasons are very diverse.. But allways something irritating me and preventing me to have fun.
AC - EQ was more fun
Was challenging to read past this line simply due to how utterly slow and boring EQ really was back then.
However, a thread like this will never really work for the same reason no real discussions will work on these forums.
First is all the people who will say "Because it stopped being fun" without realize that sentence literally says nothing. They don't even know what they find fun and don't so they cant' analyze or verbalize the reasons that a game stopped being fun so that is all they can say. This is a major problem on these forums. Certain people don't understand there are always exact reasons on why something is or isn't fun to them and they simply don't have the ability to figure out what those things are.
The other reason is all the people, such as my first sentence, who will so disagree with what others like/don't like that they won't be able to discuss things without getting into it with others as to why their opinions are not correct.
TL:DR
MMORPG.com is not a place for any actual discussion, but instead for threads overly praising or overly hating on any given title and then yelling at all those who disagree.
Don't really agree.
Saying, "it's not fun" is IMO completely valid and tells me everything I need to know.
I don't need to know why they thought it wasn't fun. IMO that doesn't tell me anything.
I know what I find fun, however how it is implemented makes more of a difference. I find crafting fun, but in most games it's very dull. I find adventuring fun, but it gets dull in most games fast. I like housing, flying, diffrent playing styles - Yet vanguard was very dull imo.
What you find fun changes from game to game, and from different implementations of the same item.
So saying it wasn't fun, IMO is really the only valid point. There is no point in pointing to a specific issue because in another game, that might be the most fun thing ever.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I left MMO's to stop myself from sinking money into them. The only other 'MMO'/space sim I support is Star Citizen. Mainly because for once there isn't a publisher controlling development with ridiculous demands, and I generally like the direction the game is going in.
Probably mentioned elsewhere, but nearly every MMO I've played and left was due to a change of designer vision for the game. I'll give a pair of examples where it was mostly acceptable for me, and then completely unacceptable.
Everquest was subject to Mudflation of item strength as the game progressed through multiple expansions. Characters that relied on gear for their performance scaled way the hell up (melees in general), and casters fell behind. Focus items that enhanced the performance of spells with raw adjustments was an answer for this concern - and while it was a direct deviation of presented character class format from the game's inception, it was done to address a game balance issue.
So that sort of thing is okay for me. You get what I'm saying.
Meanwhile, games like World of Warcraft (and many, many others) will deviate drastically from the game's original presented format in an attempt to grab more players because the dollars are found in catering to the concerns of the players, rather than sticking to the original game vision.
I don't think I need to explain this one a whole lot. The difficulty for raiding becomes easier, tools are thrown in to speed up travel and forming groups, etc.
At the heart of it, it's a matter of me looking at the drastic changes to difficulty and I'm saying to myself " WTF is this crap? This isn't want I signed up for. This isn't the game I purchased." when the changes are too blatant.
Game designers used to make games that THEY THEMSELVES wanted to play, games with rules that they believed in. They left it up to the players to accept or walk away from their offering... And simply put, games were better for it in nearly every case.
I'm still looking for that new one that really has it, really has what it takes to cause people to fall in love with it. And all these new MMO's even FF14 ARR, are missing it. It's soul, none of these MMO's have a soul. There is not enough love into them, you don't feel connected, you don't feel as a PART of the world like you should. EQ2, WoW, and multiple MMO's before them made you feel like you were a part of this living world.
Like every game, you'll just eventually grow tired of them. Many have had things i may not have liked, but i still played them until just grew tired / got bored.
Too many to make a list of dislikes on individual games.
I think almost all current mmorpgs market as "worlds" but are actually designed as "content timers" to provide x fun for y cash for z average mmorpg player in the mmorpg market.
When mmorpg world are created with real edge and consequence I think they'll boom in potential realised.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard One one, simple reason for me. Because they stopped being fun.
That's basically my answer, too, although that point seems to be consistently around mid level for the EQ/WOW style MMOs and after a few years for the others.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
EQ (first time) - Started college, lack of time to devote to game
EQ (second time) - Primarily out of frustration with PoP flagging and GoD being terrible
EQ (third time) - Frustration with the declining quality of new content (interestingly enough most of my EQ time took place in between my second and third times I "quit" the game)
Other games I played a lot:
Asheron's Call - Enjoyed EQ more
WoW - Boredom
Rift - Max level content nerfs made it boring
SW:TOR - Boredom, friends quit, had beaten all the content
Planetside 1 - Boredom
Planetside 2 -Boredom - although I do technically still play PS2 maybe a few times a month, so I haven't quit entirely.
All other MMOs I tried I simply quit because the game was terrible
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I play MMO's for entertainment. If I find it tedious, it is not accomplishing it's purpose and I will leave.
How long it takes to level is irrelevant, as long as it's entertaining me while doing so.
How challening content is is irrelevant, as long as it's entertaining me while doing so.
Tedium, is IMO, something that be actively fought against in games of any kind.
and yes repetitively doing the same thing over and over and over... is tedious.
Exactly.
Tedium is pretty much the anti-thesis to entertainment.
I think most would agree with what you say, but I am curious about where your "tedium line" is drawn. If a game is too easy, it gets tedious fast, for some players. If a game is too hard, it gets tedious (or more likely frustrating) for some players.
I found the area of Orr in GW2 tedious. If I find myself having to look things up outside of the game, it is tedious. I find that having too many skills for too many situational situations tedious. I find that having only one activity, be it combat, crafting, what have you tedious.
Some players find going from point A to point B tedious. Others find crafting tedious. Some even find constant combat or character creation tedious.
Tedium is one of those bland, non-specific terms used since it means different things to different people. Kinda like "nice." And "fun." Where is your "tedious line" drawn?
[EDIT] Venge, I saw your post a few down from the quoted one and agree that if a player finds a game "tedious" or "not fun", that is good enough for me. I am just curious as to what about it made the game feel that way. Maybe by knowing the specifics someone may be able to suggest something else to try? I also agree with your point that implementation has a lot to do with how a game plays.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I play MMO's for entertainment. If I find it tedious, it is not accomplishing it's purpose and I will leave.
How long it takes to level is irrelevant, as long as it's entertaining me while doing so.
How challening content is is irrelevant, as long as it's entertaining me while doing so.
Tedium, is IMO, something that be actively fought against in games of any kind.
and yes repetitively doing the same thing over and over and over... is tedious.
Exactly.
Tedium is pretty much the anti-thesis to entertainment.
I think most would agree with what you say, but I am curious about where your "tedium line" is drawn. If a game is too easy, it gets tedious fast, for some players. If a game is too hard, it gets tedious (or more likely frustrating) for some players.
I found the area of Orr in GW2 tedious. If I find myself having to look things up outside of the game, it is tedious. I find that having too many skills for too many situational situations tedious. I find that having only one activity, be it combat, crafting, what have you tedious.
Some players find going from point A to point B tedious. Others find crafting tedious. Some even find constant combat or character creation tedious.
Tedium is one of those bland, non-specific terms used since it means different things to different people. Kinda like "nice." And "fun." Where is your "tedious line" drawn?
Sure .. tedium is subjective.
For me,
- too easy or too hard. Perfect solution is D3 difficulty slider. I may even change what "too easy" or "too difficult" means depending on my mood. In general, i don't want to practice 3 hours before beating a boss/level. It is not that i cannot do it (i was in a raid guild before) but all the fun is gone if i waste hours practicing for an artificial challenge.
- Going from point A to B (without conflict, or combat) is definitely tedious for me. I hit the "fast travel" button whenever i can. If a game requires too much of it (like 10 min), i move on.
- Down-time is a no-no. Anytime i am not doing anything related to game mechanics (like i can only chat, or look passively), it is tedious.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Sure .. tedium is subjective.For me,- too easy or too hard. Perfect solution is D3 difficulty slider. I may even change what "too easy" or "too difficult" means depending on my mood. In general, i don't want to practice 3 hours before beating a boss/level. It is not that i cannot do it (i was in a raid guild before) but all the fun is gone if i waste hours practicing for an artificial challenge.- Going from point A to B (without conflict, or combat) is definitely tedious for me. I hit the "fast travel" button whenever i can. If a game requires too much of it (like 10 min), i move on.- Down-time is a no-no. Anytime i am not doing anything related to game mechanics (like i can only chat, or look passively), it is tedious.
Thanks, nariusseldon. Good points and clarifications
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
1) To easy.
2) Feel like i'm being nickel and dimed to death and cant enjoy the games wondering how much i'll have to continue spending.
3) Fast leveling
Mostly just the money grabbing part of them and the fact that their waaaaaay to easy.
I took about a year off because I was tired of trying to justify playing in a virtual world with nothing to do except kill things. No housing. Afterthough crafting. Dev driven economies (read cash shop).
I really tried to play some of these newer mmos without combat and it was so lacking, I couldnt justify the time invested.
FFXIV came along and changed that. I havent done any combat in weeks and I am having the most fun Ive had in an mmo since swg. And with housing coming the first patch and tons of other non combat activities on the way, it has made me a happy mmo gamer again.
Well sure, the reasons were different for every game I left, sometimes the game play changed drastically (DAOC and the TOA expansion), or I felt the end game was too focused on raids and PVE grinding (WOW, RIFT, and most other newer theme park MMO's), or I accomplished all that I could within my real life limitations (EVE).
But at the end of the day, regardless of the specific reason, what it does really boil down to is they all stopped entertaining me and it was time to move on to another title.
Once in a while I went back, most notably DAOC, WOW, and EVE for a 2nd (or 3rd) long run, but most of the time once I moved on I never returned, as I doubt most games really change fundamentally from what they started with.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I will use your list. I will leave out the games I didn't play.
UO - I honestly don't remember, it was so long ago. I do remember I hated how my spells needed reagents.
EQ - New games came out that I wanted to try. Also, after so many years, friends that I became close with slowly started to leave and I would just end up depressed when I signed in and didn't see all the names that were once there.
EQ2 - Was too easy. While I can/could/did accept that from other games, it felt like a betrayal since it was using the Everquest name.
WoW - I hit end-game with my mage, did raids for a short time and then left just before BC was released. It became really monotonous after a short period of time.
GW - Did everything I wanted to.
Lotro - The population became really low and was hard to find groups.
Vanguard - My computer couldn't run it and still can't without a lot of problems.
AoC - I liked the adult theme and combat but I couldn't connect with any of the classes.
DCUO - Was really short on content, I just ran out of things to do.
DDO - Low population.
Tera - The quest grind killed it for me. It made it feel more like a chore to level in Tera than it ever did in Everquest.
Rift - Classes felt homogeneous, color palette, lore felt like it was made to fit the game instead of the game being made to fit the lore.
SWTOR - Finished the story lines I wanted to play.
TSW - The rigid animations and bad character graphics made it really hard for me to feel connected to my character. It eventually became too much for me. (Which is odd since I have no problem with bad graphics, I think this is more because they were simply really ugly.)
Neverwinter - Not enough character progression.
FF XIV - It constantly felt like the UI was fighting me, became really frustrating really fast. I remember almost a 5sec delay just to get the Menu window to open, actually navigating it made me want to sit on a knife.
FF XIV ARR - Feels like I have played this game too many times before.
GW2 - No end-game, lack of trinity or more defined roles (I always play healers/crowd control/support in games and this felt really lacking), dungeons were painful and simply not fun, zerg.
I see what your trying to do. Big fail on your part, but at least i saw it. You have no arguments. Just a lot of statements. And my response to those statements are posted above. If you dont feel that you are apart of this crowd then thats fine. However some of your statements would say otherwise.
Just an FYI, one of the key words i look for when identifying the "Crowd" is Tedious. The crowd used that word to talk about leveling or traveling or just general game play features that the crowd finds to time consuming and inconvenient.
I play MMO's for entertainment. If I find it tedious, it is not accomplishing it's purpose and I will leave.
How long it takes to level is irrelevant, as long as it's entertaining me while doing so.
How challening content is is irrelevant, as long as it's entertaining me while doing so.
Tedium, is IMO, something that be actively fought against in games of any kind.
and yes repetitively doing the same thing over and over and over... is tedious.Exactly.
Tedium is pretty much the anti-thesis to entertainment.
NGE, NGE, NGE, NGE, NGE, NGE, NGE, CU, NGE, NGE, NGE
Did I mention NGE?
Tentative reason to quit: Will eventually reach the point where my friends aren't playing. I'll probably play for a while once they do, since I love crafting.
Will Quit: When EQN (Landmark) comes out.
* Yes, I'm planning to quit eventually.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Was challenging to read past this line simply due to how utterly slow and boring EQ really was back then.
However, a thread like this will never really work for the same reason no real discussions will work on these forums.
First is all the people who will say "Because it stopped being fun" without realize that sentence literally says nothing. They don't even know what they find fun and don't so they cant' analyze or verbalize the reasons that a game stopped being fun so that is all they can say. This is a major problem on these forums. Certain people don't understand there are always exact reasons on why something is or isn't fun to them and they simply don't have the ability to figure out what those things are.
The other reason is all the people, such as my first sentence, who will so disagree with what others like/don't like that they won't be able to discuss things without getting into it with others as to why their opinions are not correct.
TL:DR
MMORPG.com is not a place for any actual discussion, but instead for threads overly praising or overly hating on any given title and then yelling at all those who disagree.
Don't really agree.
Saying, "it's not fun" is IMO completely valid and tells me everything I need to know.
I don't need to know why they thought it wasn't fun. IMO that doesn't tell me anything.
I know what I find fun, however how it is implemented makes more of a difference. I find crafting fun, but in most games it's very dull. I find adventuring fun, but it gets dull in most games fast. I like housing, flying, diffrent playing styles - Yet vanguard was very dull imo.
What you find fun changes from game to game, and from different implementations of the same item.
So saying it wasn't fun, IMO is really the only valid point. There is no point in pointing to a specific issue because in another game, that might be the most fun thing ever.
I agree with you. I have 4 or 5 chars max level in GW2 now, just sitting there....the last one only took 2 days...
I also hate button mashing zerg combat...
I remember the runescape like 11 years ago...man that was fun with all those horrible graphics.....
Probably mentioned elsewhere, but nearly every MMO I've played and left was due to a change of designer vision for the game. I'll give a pair of examples where it was mostly acceptable for me, and then completely unacceptable.
Everquest was subject to Mudflation of item strength as the game progressed through multiple expansions. Characters that relied on gear for their performance scaled way the hell up (melees in general), and casters fell behind. Focus items that enhanced the performance of spells with raw adjustments was an answer for this concern - and while it was a direct deviation of presented character class format from the game's inception, it was done to address a game balance issue.
So that sort of thing is okay for me. You get what I'm saying.
Meanwhile, games like World of Warcraft (and many, many others) will deviate drastically from the game's original presented format in an attempt to grab more players because the dollars are found in catering to the concerns of the players, rather than sticking to the original game vision.
I don't think I need to explain this one a whole lot. The difficulty for raiding becomes easier, tools are thrown in to speed up travel and forming groups, etc.
At the heart of it, it's a matter of me looking at the drastic changes to difficulty and I'm saying to myself " WTF is this crap? This isn't want I signed up for. This isn't the game I purchased." when the changes are too blatant.
Game designers used to make games that THEY THEMSELVES wanted to play, games with rules that they believed in. They left it up to the players to accept or walk away from their offering... And simply put, games were better for it in nearly every case.
I'm still looking for that new one that really has it, really has what it takes to cause people to fall in love with it. And all these new MMO's even FF14 ARR, are missing it. It's soul, none of these MMO's have a soul. There is not enough love into them, you don't feel connected, you don't feel as a PART of the world like you should. EQ2, WoW, and multiple MMO's before them made you feel like you were a part of this living world.
Killing dragons is my shit
Like every game, you'll just eventually grow tired of them. Many have had things i may not have liked, but i still played them until just grew tired / got bored.
Too many to make a list of dislikes on individual games.
When mmorpg world are created with real edge and consequence I think they'll boom in potential realised.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
That's basically my answer, too, although that point seems to be consistently around mid level for the EQ/WOW style MMOs and after a few years for the others.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
EQ (first time) - Started college, lack of time to devote to game
EQ (second time) - Primarily out of frustration with PoP flagging and GoD being terrible
EQ (third time) - Frustration with the declining quality of new content (interestingly enough most of my EQ time took place in between my second and third times I "quit" the game)
Other games I played a lot:
Asheron's Call - Enjoyed EQ more
WoW - Boredom
Rift - Max level content nerfs made it boring
SW:TOR - Boredom, friends quit, had beaten all the content
Planetside 1 - Boredom
Planetside 2 -Boredom - although I do technically still play PS2 maybe a few times a month, so I haven't quit entirely.
All other MMOs I tried I simply quit because the game was terrible
I found the area of Orr in GW2 tedious. If I find myself having to look things up outside of the game, it is tedious. I find that having too many skills for too many situational situations tedious. I find that having only one activity, be it combat, crafting, what have you tedious.
Some players find going from point A to point B tedious. Others find crafting tedious. Some even find constant combat or character creation tedious.
Tedium is one of those bland, non-specific terms used since it means different things to different people. Kinda like "nice." And "fun." Where is your "tedious line" drawn?
[EDIT]
Venge, I saw your post a few down from the quoted one and agree that if a player finds a game "tedious" or "not fun", that is good enough for me. I am just curious as to what about it made the game feel that way. Maybe by knowing the specifics someone may be able to suggest something else to try? I also agree with your point that implementation has a lot to do with how a game plays.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Sure .. tedium is subjective.
For me,
- too easy or too hard. Perfect solution is D3 difficulty slider. I may even change what "too easy" or "too difficult" means depending on my mood. In general, i don't want to practice 3 hours before beating a boss/level. It is not that i cannot do it (i was in a raid guild before) but all the fun is gone if i waste hours practicing for an artificial challenge.
- Going from point A to B (without conflict, or combat) is definitely tedious for me. I hit the "fast travel" button whenever i can. If a game requires too much of it (like 10 min), i move on.
- Down-time is a no-no. Anytime i am not doing anything related to game mechanics (like i can only chat, or look passively), it is tedious.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
EQ1 - Immersion was lost little by little with each expansion after Velious
EQ2 - a giant gimmicky attempt at cloning WoW after launch failed miserablely
Warhammer - buggy uninteresting PvE, world PvP was ruined at the last minute by adding battlegrounds
Vanguard - any random handful of players care about the game more then every developer ever involved combined
GW2 - trinity replaced with shallow chaos, quest grind replaced with event grind, progression replaced with nothing
WoW - gameplay was mostly disregarded after the first expansion
FFXI - terrible keyboard controls, no attempt at class balance
FFXIVARR - GW2 with a monthly fee