If EQN has Action/Twitch combat i am OK with it as long as they offer native gamepad support. I do not play action/twitch games with mouse. Period. EDIT: only shooters...... Period.
GW1 has an eight skills bar and TSW has ten. Both games are deep and smart. Quality > quantity.
But 8 buttons doesn't mean quality and with the 40 classes and all their skills it realy sounds more like quantity in general. I have to admit i never played gw1 but both TSW and GW2 keep getting me frustrated with the lack of usable skills and the limits to its builds. Well GW2 woul have a huge potential if you add an additional set of 5 skills that are not dependant on the weapon but have a similar cooldown like weapon skills and a 2nd set of 5 skills that work like fully passive or like signets(realy meaningfull skills not just some stats. Things like additional pets for a necro, more slots for mesmer illusions or even a permanent illusion).
8 skills and limited selection(dependant n class your 2nd set of 4 skills has specific slots) can work fpr certain playstyles like the melee-warrior or a ranger but it will be a nightmare for every caster or everyone that wan't some more complex mechanics(like cc, decent buff-/debuff-system). Another Problem for me is that 8 skills sounds like its becoming a game of role-switching every 5 minutes like rift and that did ruin immersion for me.
Having the ability to build your "deck" of skills to use is far more easier to balance then giving you access to hundreds of skills to use at one time. I'll never play a multi-hotbar MMO game again. It's myopic and a PITA to balance.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by rojo6934 If EQN has Action/Twitch combat i am OK with it as long as they offer native gamepad support. I do not play action/twitch games with mouse. Period. EDIT: only shooters...... Period.
Fiddling with dual thumbsticks is paramount to lunacy for me, I'll never figure out the allure of Controller support when the good old fashioned Keyboard and mouse gives you the perennial sense of motor functionality. With that being said I hope they do offer support. Options are never a bad thing!
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by rojo6934 If EQN has Action/Twitch combat i am OK with it as long as they offer native gamepad support. I do not play action/twitch games with mouse. Period. EDIT: only shooters...... Period.
Fiddling with dual thumbsticks is paramount to lunacy for me, I'll never figure out the allure of Controller support when the good old fashioned Keyboard and mouse gives you the perennial sense of motor functionality. With that being said I hope they do offer support. Options are never a bad thing!
m/k works fantastically well on traditional mmos and thats good, but for me personally action/twitch based games (Tera, Neverwinter, TSW with the reticle option enabled) work better with gamepad.
I hope they offer both options but if they dont ill probably wont play it on PC unless Xpadder works flawlessly with that game. Xpadder doesnt work very well with TSW and NW because they have a lot of menu buttons and the modifiers dont work properly. On the other hand TERA and FFXIV work flawlessly with gamepad and both have native support.
I think i am just tired of spending too long in front of my computer whenever i want to play something and Action based games make perfect sense to offer gamepad support since there is very little use for the keyboard other than chat when i use a controller. And i usually chat through mic with my friends while playing so i dont even touch the keyboard after i set up the graphics and all that.
EDIT: with that said, it has to keep a PC interface. A gamepad can navigate very easily a PC interface. DCUO and Defiance console interface were bad. Skyrims SkyUI mod that turned the UI into a more PC UI is very easily used with controller.
Playing games like GW2, neverwinter and TSW made me realise that i love gaems with several hotbars filled with skills and real time decisions in choosing those skills...
On top of that it made me realize how much i love the trinity..
First they have not told us enough about combat to know how difficult it will be. All they have told us is that you will have to adjust your strategy as the MOBs adjust thiers.
They told us the old trinity make up is still available however thier may be times frequently when that strategy won't work.
8 Skills if implemented with thought and balance can still offer game play in depth.
You spy a group of orcs ahead. They are all wearing leather armor and wiedling bows. The trinity would not be very effective here because they can only focus on one orc. While the other orcs fall back and pick thier targets. Maybe they attack the wizard first since his nuke can take them all out at once. Oh and they learned that lesson a while back and now they don't cluster together so close.
And if you don't have the skills needed for this encounter just hide in the shadows out of range and rearrange yourselves.
Why don't we wait and see what they have to present to us down the road before making up our minds?
Playing games like GW2, neverwinter and TSW made me realise that i love gaems with several hotbars filled with skills and real time decisions in choosing those skills...
On top of that it made me realize how much i love the trinity..
I lost my interest in EQnext because of this...
Maaan, after that 5 month (TSW 4, GW2 1) run last year, with very limited bars, I bought Panda Land... Wholly 5hi! it was an eye opener. I had so many tools again, so many more was to approach a situation, where as in GW2 it dmg, dmg, dmg and more dmg.
Originally posted by Fangrim hate your casual crap games where you play alongside each other and no one can steal your mobs or nodes and you get adventure xp by making cloths and pies.
Lets all be friends and play alongside each other zerging and never speaking.
players rarely speak in 5man wow instances - trinity makes no difference
Originally posted by Nadia Originally posted by Fangrim hate your casual crap games where you play alongside each other and no one can steal your mobs or nodes and you get adventure xp by making cloths and pies.Lets all be friends and play alongside each other zerging and never speaking.
players rarely speak in 5man wow instances - trinity makes no difference
Sure in cross dungeon finder groups in an instance. People don't talk because they likely will never see those particular people again. GW2 showed me how empty a world can feel and how easy a game feels when there is no competition over any content.
I can live with twitch combat. I wish people would stop calling it "action combat". How is it more actiony to hold down a mouse button and press 1-4 (or 8 in this case) every 3-15 seconds. Old tab target you pressed 1-12 keys every second (usually) Then you had a bunch of cooldowns. I can break a sweat tanking in tab target. In Neverwinter and tera, I can tank and just sit there with the mouse held down, and press aoe taunt every 8 seconds lol. Gives me time to watch TV XD.
The thing I cannot stand is the lack of a trinity. It will be just a Zergfest like in GW2. Noone works together (which is what MMOs in general should be all about right?). It takes the single player mentality from questing and brings it to dungeons..."I'm here doing my thing...there just happens to be other people doing the same thing as me". In games with a Trinity, it takes teamwork. I'll use the worst difficulty example of a trinity game, WoW. In WoW, which is fairly simple and easy, when you compare it to some of the others (unless you talk about older raids), no matter how well geared and skilled you are, if you do not work as a team (even in LFR), you will fail. Games without the Trinity emphasize the solo play that most older players have come to loath in MMOs and brings it into the realm of raiding.
My biggest gripe about this game is that the only thing this game has to do with Everquest, it seems, is the name. It won't feel like Everquest, It won't look like Everquest, and it sure won't play like Everquest.
Originally posted by Kyllien Your question has no basis in fact. So far what they have revealed does not allow for the assumptions you are making. No details have been revealed of the combat system. No details have been revealed of what the weapon or character skills are actually going to be. Again, no details have been revealed of what combat is going to be like. And to say it again, we do not know how they will be implementing combat. Or maybe the final time, we know that the game will have combat; that is all.
Ok, we got the attacking the poll post out of the way.
Its not a poll, its your interpretation of something asking whether people agree with you. If you'd of asked people for their interpretation then that would be a poll.
The fact you used the term twitch gives a huge insight into your bias - ppl who have very poor aiming usually try to diminish aiming using the term twitch. Where as people who play aiming games at the higher level know there's much more to it than some twitch reflex.
Originally posted by Kyllien Your question has no basis in fact. So far what they have revealed does not allow for the assumptions you are making. No details have been revealed of the combat system. No details have been revealed of what the weapon or character skills are actually going to be. Again, no details have been revealed of what combat is going to be like. And to say it again, we do not know how they will be implementing combat. Or maybe the final time, we know that the game will have combat; that is all.
Ok, we got the attacking the poll post out of the way.
Ok, we got the OP disregarding a valid criticism of his post without giving any valid reasoning post out of the way.
Originally posted by ignore_me The lure of MOBA $$, the lack of trinity, the need for simple controls because movement along 3 axes will be necessary. What's your take on this feature of EQNext?
I immensely enjoyed skyrim and that had a total combat button configuration of 2-4.
In mmorpgs, i ten to like the 10-12 button configuration. i have played games that have more active buttons but in today's mmorpgs there really is not a need for so many.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Having more skills on your hotbar doesn't make a game more tactical and it usually doesn't add any depth to a game. I'm playing EQ2 right now and honestly I can't stand the combat, even though the rest of the game has massive depth to it the combat is a nightmare with having to manage around 50 skills on my hotbar. Whenever I'm fighting things in EQ2 I'm managing my UI and barely paying any attention to the game at all. It's not very tactical, and only a few skills actually have tactical uses outside of just mashing in a rotation. More importantly, it's just boring to me.
On the other hand playing a GS + Sword/Axe Tanking Ranger in GW2 was always exciting. I had to pay attention to what was going on around me. I never sat there and watched my UI. I had to time my GS swings since every third attack let me evade, along with dodging and using defensive cooldowns. I had to watch out for fields to leap through and make sure my fields were in a good position for blast combos. I had to make sure to time Counterattack and use it so it would act as a full 3 second duration mobile block and not an animation lock for a lousy knockback. I had to time my evades properly on my sword, and use my axe offhand skill to provide reflects at the most appropriate time. I was fully engaged in the combat and not sitting there waiting for my cooldowns.
Another example is Guile from Street Fighter (pretty much any version of it he was in). He has 2 special moves which is significantly less than other characters and the same number of normals, yet he isn't weaker or less tactical than any of the other cast. He usually winds up somewhere around mid tier which is tournament viable.
I do think EQ2 has better designed boss encounters than GW2. The PvE in GW2 was honestly pretty poorly designed and there was no end game raid content to keep me interested. I think locking skills to weapons, despite the ability to swap was also a mistake and the lack of trinity seemed pointless and really seemed to bog down a lot of the encounter depth. I hope EQ Next doesn't make this mistake, but it looks like they are headed in that direction which could wind up being disappointing.
I do think EQ2 has better designed boss encounters than GW2. The PvE in GW2 was honestly pretty poorly designed and there was no end game raid content to keep me interested. I think locking skills to weapons, despite the ability to swap was also a mistake and the lack of trinity seemed pointless and really seemed to bog down a lot of the encounter depth. I hope EQ Next doesn't make this mistake, but it looks like they are headed in that direction which could wind up being disappointing.
If most of us players were quick to dismiss GW2 and call it out on all its flaws, i'd imagine Sony know the rights and wrongs from GW2. There's plenty of legit critical feedback on GW2 everywhere on the net.
nah its just that gw2 had a lot of E sports players a lot of guilds community guilds joined and they analysed the whole game everything.
gw2 WvW was perfect at first had a good crew it was growing all these guild v guild combats there was a lot smaller fights not these hugh zone blob v zone blob because of the guilds were running the show.
after a couple of months though peoples got scared they saw a group of 20-25 that could wipe out random players 50+ because they were working together.
sadly 50+ couldn't wipe off 20-25 and every server had a lot guild raids so what do devlin and the rest do? well they start destroy they never listened too WvW players only to pve/pvp and look what is happening they are everyday losing players this league made 6 hours que.
some here might think ''that's great then more ppls start play WvW''
sure well there is something called ruins and achievement well I saw them standing there with pve commander 50+ and they dropped in rings got the achievement went out let the enemy take it.
several servers reported that pve commanders tagging up destroying raids joining teamspeak screaming destroying annoying.
ppls that was never part of the server or ppls that played in vabii and lower pve servers joined the highest possible servers to get easy points and now those servers are dying because all guilds all original players leaving and those pugs that joined will eventually leave the server too killing a lot good servers.
my hope with everquest next is that the crew there will listen because a lot of good standing community guilds gonna join and I would hate to see another game destroy for em.
nah its just that gw2 had a lot of E sports players a lot of guilds community guilds joined and they analysed the whole game everything.
gw2 WvW was perfect at first had a good crew it was growing all these guild v guild combats there was a lot smaller fights not these hugh zone blob v zone blob because of the guilds were running the show.
after a couple of months though peoples got scared they saw a group of 20-25 that could wipe out random players 50+ because they were working together.
sadly 50+ couldn't wipe off 20-25 and every server had a lot guild raids so what do devlin and the rest do? well they start destroy they never listened too WvW players only to pve/pvp and look what is happening they are everyday losing players this league made 6 hours que.
some here might think ''that's great then more ppls start play WvW''
sure well there is something called ruins and achievement well I saw them standing there with pve commander 50+ and they dropped in rings got the achievement went out let the enemy take it.
several servers reported that pve commanders tagging up destroying raids joining teamspeak screaming destroying annoying.
ppls that was never part of the server or ppls that played in vabii and lower pve servers joined the highest possible servers to get easy points and now those servers are dying because all guilds all original players leaving and those pugs that joined will eventually leave the server too killing a lot good servers.
my hope with everquest next is that the crew there will listen because a lot of good standing community guilds gonna join and I would hate to see another game destroy for em.
Dude you're talking about WvWvW and I get that but....I purchased Gw2 and played it with some friends at launch. The problems, or things that we disliked was universal. We all eventually just quit, and many others we knew just quit. Quitting a purchased Box game that does not have any Subs so soon after launch is a bad thing. I tried to love GW2....i actually really liked the graphics when turned on Max...however the gameplay just wasn't indepth or there. I'm a PvPer at heart and play many types of games but the Combat wasn't enough to satisfy. At times it kind of felt dull. I'm sure some people like it but for me it was just dull.
I dont want a game where 9 hotbars are needed for all the skills. Id rather have 8 skills that are designed with enough thought to have game rather than play a game with 90 skills that just require fast typing skills.
Originally posted by Kyllien Your question has no basis in fact. So far what they have revealed does not allow for the assumptions you are making. No details have been revealed of the combat system. No details have been revealed of what the weapon or character skills are actually going to be. Again, no details have been revealed of what combat is going to be like. And to say it again, we do not know how they will be implementing combat. Or maybe the final time, we know that the game will have combat; that is all.
Ok, we got the attacking the poll post out of the way.
Ok, we got the OP disregarding a valid criticism of his post without giving any valid reasoning post out of the way.
Just take the poll or don't. I don't care if you don't like the question. I don't have the time or inclination to try and pander to some nebulous sense of journalistic integrity. It's not a study, it's just a fun poll on a forum.
Originally posted by Kyllien Your question has no basis in fact. So far what they have revealed does not allow for the assumptions you are making. No details have been revealed of the combat system. No details have been revealed of what the weapon or character skills are actually going to be. Again, no details have been revealed of what combat is going to be like. And to say it again, we do not know how they will be implementing combat. Or maybe the final time, we know that the game will have combat; that is all.
Ok, we got the attacking the poll post out of the way.
Its not a poll, its your interpretation of something asking whether people agree with you. If you'd of asked people for their interpretation then that would be a poll.
The fact you used the term twitch gives a huge insight into your bias - ppl who have very poor aiming usually try to diminish aiming using the term twitch. Where as people who play aiming games at the higher level know there's much more to it than some twitch reflex.
It's funny, because when I made the OP, I used a button named "Include a Poll."
My favorite game atm is Planetside 2. Your deduction powers are suck.
Comments
Having the ability to build your "deck" of skills to use is far more easier to balance then giving you access to hundreds of skills to use at one time. I'll never play a multi-hotbar MMO game again. It's myopic and a PITA to balance.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Fiddling with dual thumbsticks is paramount to lunacy for me, I'll never figure out the allure of Controller support when the good old fashioned Keyboard and mouse gives you the perennial sense of motor functionality. With that being said I hope they do offer support. Options are never a bad thing!
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
m/k works fantastically well on traditional mmos and thats good, but for me personally action/twitch based games (Tera, Neverwinter, TSW with the reticle option enabled) work better with gamepad.
I hope they offer both options but if they dont ill probably wont play it on PC unless Xpadder works flawlessly with that game. Xpadder doesnt work very well with TSW and NW because they have a lot of menu buttons and the modifiers dont work properly. On the other hand TERA and FFXIV work flawlessly with gamepad and both have native support.
I think i am just tired of spending too long in front of my computer whenever i want to play something and Action based games make perfect sense to offer gamepad support since there is very little use for the keyboard other than chat when i use a controller. And i usually chat through mic with my friends while playing so i dont even touch the keyboard after i set up the graphics and all that.
EDIT: with that said, it has to keep a PC interface. A gamepad can navigate very easily a PC interface. DCUO and Defiance console interface were bad. Skyrims SkyUI mod that turned the UI into a more PC UI is very easily used with controller.
First they have not told us enough about combat to know how difficult it will be. All they have told us is that you will have to adjust your strategy as the MOBs adjust thiers.
They told us the old trinity make up is still available however thier may be times frequently when that strategy won't work.
8 Skills if implemented with thought and balance can still offer game play in depth.
You spy a group of orcs ahead. They are all wearing leather armor and wiedling bows. The trinity would not be very effective here because they can only focus on one orc. While the other orcs fall back and pick thier targets. Maybe they attack the wizard first since his nuke can take them all out at once. Oh and they learned that lesson a while back and now they don't cluster together so close.
And if you don't have the skills needed for this encounter just hide in the shadows out of range and rearrange yourselves.
Why don't we wait and see what they have to present to us down the road before making up our minds?
Maaan, after that 5 month (TSW 4, GW2 1) run last year, with very limited bars, I bought Panda Land... Wholly 5hi! it was an eye opener. I had so many tools again, so many more was to approach a situation, where as in GW2 it dmg, dmg, dmg and more dmg.
players rarely speak in 5man wow instances - trinity makes no difference
EQ2 fan sites
Sure in cross dungeon finder groups in an instance. People don't talk because they likely will never see those particular people again. GW2 showed me how empty a world can feel and how easy a game feels when there is no competition over any content.
fair enough - that's the primary reason i hate cross server dungeon finders
EQ2 fan sites
I can live with twitch combat. I wish people would stop calling it "action combat". How is it more actiony to hold down a mouse button and press 1-4 (or 8 in this case) every 3-15 seconds. Old tab target you pressed 1-12 keys every second (usually) Then you had a bunch of cooldowns. I can break a sweat tanking in tab target. In Neverwinter and tera, I can tank and just sit there with the mouse held down, and press aoe taunt every 8 seconds lol. Gives me time to watch TV XD.
The thing I cannot stand is the lack of a trinity. It will be just a Zergfest like in GW2. Noone works together (which is what MMOs in general should be all about right?). It takes the single player mentality from questing and brings it to dungeons..."I'm here doing my thing...there just happens to be other people doing the same thing as me". In games with a Trinity, it takes teamwork. I'll use the worst difficulty example of a trinity game, WoW. In WoW, which is fairly simple and easy, when you compare it to some of the others (unless you talk about older raids), no matter how well geared and skilled you are, if you do not work as a team (even in LFR), you will fail. Games without the Trinity emphasize the solo play that most older players have come to loath in MMOs and brings it into the realm of raiding.
My biggest gripe about this game is that the only thing this game has to do with Everquest, it seems, is the name. It won't feel like Everquest, It won't look like Everquest, and it sure won't play like Everquest.
Its not a poll, its your interpretation of something asking whether people agree with you. If you'd of asked people for their interpretation then that would be a poll.
The fact you used the term twitch gives a huge insight into your bias - ppl who have very poor aiming usually try to diminish aiming using the term twitch. Where as people who play aiming games at the higher level know there's much more to it than some twitch reflex.
Ok, we got the OP disregarding a valid criticism of his post without giving any valid reasoning post out of the way.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
I immensely enjoyed skyrim and that had a total combat button configuration of 2-4.
In mmorpgs, i ten to like the 10-12 button configuration. i have played games that have more active buttons but in today's mmorpgs there really is not a need for so many.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Having more skills on your hotbar doesn't make a game more tactical and it usually doesn't add any depth to a game. I'm playing EQ2 right now and honestly I can't stand the combat, even though the rest of the game has massive depth to it the combat is a nightmare with having to manage around 50 skills on my hotbar. Whenever I'm fighting things in EQ2 I'm managing my UI and barely paying any attention to the game at all. It's not very tactical, and only a few skills actually have tactical uses outside of just mashing in a rotation. More importantly, it's just boring to me.
On the other hand playing a GS + Sword/Axe Tanking Ranger in GW2 was always exciting. I had to pay attention to what was going on around me. I never sat there and watched my UI. I had to time my GS swings since every third attack let me evade, along with dodging and using defensive cooldowns. I had to watch out for fields to leap through and make sure my fields were in a good position for blast combos. I had to make sure to time Counterattack and use it so it would act as a full 3 second duration mobile block and not an animation lock for a lousy knockback. I had to time my evades properly on my sword, and use my axe offhand skill to provide reflects at the most appropriate time. I was fully engaged in the combat and not sitting there waiting for my cooldowns.
Another example is Guile from Street Fighter (pretty much any version of it he was in). He has 2 special moves which is significantly less than other characters and the same number of normals, yet he isn't weaker or less tactical than any of the other cast. He usually winds up somewhere around mid tier which is tournament viable.
I do think EQ2 has better designed boss encounters than GW2. The PvE in GW2 was honestly pretty poorly designed and there was no end game raid content to keep me interested. I think locking skills to weapons, despite the ability to swap was also a mistake and the lack of trinity seemed pointless and really seemed to bog down a lot of the encounter depth. I hope EQ Next doesn't make this mistake, but it looks like they are headed in that direction which could wind up being disappointing.
If most of us players were quick to dismiss GW2 and call it out on all its flaws, i'd imagine Sony know the rights and wrongs from GW2. There's plenty of legit critical feedback on GW2 everywhere on the net.
quick to dismiss gw2?
nah its just that gw2 had a lot of E sports players a lot of guilds community guilds joined and they analysed the whole game everything.
gw2 WvW was perfect at first had a good crew it was growing all these guild v guild combats there was a lot smaller fights not these hugh zone blob v zone blob because of the guilds were running the show.
after a couple of months though peoples got scared they saw a group of 20-25 that could wipe out random players 50+ because they were working together.
sadly 50+ couldn't wipe off 20-25 and every server had a lot guild raids so what do devlin and the rest do? well they start destroy they never listened too WvW players only to pve/pvp and look what is happening they are everyday losing players this league made 6 hours que.
some here might think ''that's great then more ppls start play WvW''
sure well there is something called ruins and achievement well I saw them standing there with pve commander 50+ and they dropped in rings got the achievement went out let the enemy take it.
several servers reported that pve commanders tagging up destroying raids joining teamspeak screaming destroying annoying.
ppls that was never part of the server or ppls that played in vabii and lower pve servers joined the highest possible servers to get easy points and now those servers are dying because all guilds all original players leaving and those pugs that joined will eventually leave the server too killing a lot good servers.
my hope with everquest next is that the crew there will listen because a lot of good standing community guilds gonna join and I would hate to see another game destroy for em.
Dude you're talking about WvWvW and I get that
but....I purchased Gw2 and played it with some friends at launch. The problems, or things that we disliked was universal. We all eventually just quit, and many others we knew just quit. Quitting a purchased Box game that does not have any Subs so soon after launch is a bad thing. I tried to love GW2....i actually really liked the graphics when turned on Max...however the gameplay just wasn't indepth or there. I'm a PvPer at heart and play many types of games but the Combat wasn't enough to satisfy. At times it kind of felt dull. I'm sure some people like it but for me it was just dull.
Just take the poll or don't. I don't care if you don't like the question. I don't have the time or inclination to try and pander to some nebulous sense of journalistic integrity. It's not a study, it's just a fun poll on a forum.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
It's funny, because when I made the OP, I used a button named "Include a Poll."
My favorite game atm is Planetside 2. Your deduction powers are suck.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011