One could compare MOBA games with puns in that it's the lowest form of wit/intelligence/comedy there is within it's sphere. The games are simple, many of the people playing it are simpler (we've all met these types and it isn't a generalization of everyone), and the only reason it's popular is because of the rivalry of teams and it's very simplicity. It's all about marketing to the lowest common denominator of gaming -- much like MMOs are starting to so (though they are the most complex and expensive of games) -- to bring in money. The difference being is that LoL is perhaps one of the most cost efficient games with cheap production and high income.
The key factor is having a low skill wall; one could be as good as a "pro" by simply learning how to click buttons and making / studying a sheet of what to do against multiple compositions with your own composition of characters that your team had chosen. It takes more skill topping the DPS charts in games with their rotations, or PvP with countering things with the dozens and dozens of tools you have rather than just a couple to memorize. It does boggle my mind a bit how popular it is, but so did the simplicity and success of Facebook games; many MOBA players would say that facebook gamers aren't true gamers, just how players of more complex games would say MOBA players aren't true gamers (if it's their main outlet).
That said, I'd rather own a successful Moba (or successful F2P MMO for that matter) than what is considered to be a successful P2P MMO simply because of how simple it is and how easy people are entertained with the same map(s) and a new character skin every once in a while. There is a saying that "the fool is easily parted of his money", and this largely applies to Facebook / Moba / many F2P mmos that rely on massive purchases from individuals. Though a fool is allowed to enjoy what he wants, and spend his money on what he wants; it's the way our economies thrive. One of the principals of business is "to find someone dumber than you and sell something to them", and while that is harsh in it's cold logic, it could apply to expertise and how one might buy something that only you know how to produce.
Point of the matter is there is really no arguing how simple these games are, and how easy they are to play at high skill level. It's the whole point in them making money; it's a reason why our MMOs are heading in that direction. The more simple among us (previously called casuals, but I don't think that's a valid assertion as many casuals just have families to take care of and do in fact have skill) who enjoy simple things vastly outnumber the skilled and those who are willing to / able to put in time for something. It's just good business to target said people, and is why simple things have been more successful than things with large amounts of complexity. Even writers suggest writing in simple and easy to understand words and ways; people don't want to feel dumb, have to think or look up words or have to memorize multiple things. Many also don't want to admit faults or accept feedback meant to better themselves without making a scene.
The phenom of these games isn't so much an enigma as it is just preying on human nature and statistics. This is especially true when the mob mentality enters whereby people have their favorite teams and gather together in the tens of thousands inside of chat rooms. It's quite possibly the same way Athletic sports became popular; though admittedly it takes much harder work for athletes (physical pain), and our perception of the human body bestows a natural admiration to those with toned bodies. Thus, one could assert that a game that is simple at it's core -- from concept to implementation -- will always have more people look to it than something of complexity (especially if said complexity has required payments involved to maintain said complexity; though the fact remains that some also play free games simply because they don't want to part with their money despite that many, many who do. Though that's the main reason on how people get drawn in and hooked by simplicity and want to become a bit more unique to further enjoy themselves).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Just look at the numbers from 2011 to get my point from above. In 2011 14 out of every 15 accounts did not play on a daily basis and now in 2013 it is up to 50% playing daily? There just isn't something right about that data. Either some company is running a boatload of bots that are pumping up both numbers or one of those two numbers is simply wrong. There is no way that 50% of all registered accounts are active daily.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot. Hearthstone. It's quickly becoming my favorite game.
Already a lot of people are getting bored with it and have quit, Including me.
Anyway, back on topic, comparing two games that belong to two different genres is reflective of the immature LoL community.
I put up with LoL's horrible community as well as the ridiculously crap art theme for 6-7 months as I really enjoyed the gameplay. Finally got tired of the same old repetitive games over and over again though. I ended up only playing ARAM for the last weeks and even then, some games were practically copy/paste.
The skill required to be a top player in LoL isn't really that impressive either. Living proof is Ocelote and how utterly shit he is, yet is still considered a pro player.
9/10 Pro vs Pro games end up with one team steamrolling the other. Comebacks are practically impossible if you're careful (which isn't really hard).
My opinion is probably biased since I seem to have gotten tired of the MOBA scene. Just too much repetitive gameplay
What does it matter? They're not the same type of game at all.
May be may be not.
Different types of games compete for the same market. You don't think people who are playing FPS don't play stealth games, or MMO, do you?
They compete for PART of the same Market, not the complete market. The Market isn't that cut and dry.
Not all MMO Players play other genres, Not all FPS Players play MMOs or other genres either.... I only play MMOs and occasionally a single player rpg now and then, never a FPS, I know what League of Legends is, I have watched it being played and I am not interested into it, nor do I think it's a MMORPG, my opinion of course...
Comparing League of Legends with World of Warcraft and cheering because LoL has more Players is like comparing American Football with Baseball and cheering that more People like Football. Baseball Fans don't give a Rat's Petunia what Football Fans like or dislike generally. Do some People like both? Sure, but not everyone.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
70M registered users. Well, you say, do they actually play the game?
32.5M daily active users. That is almost half of the 70M register users play daily. That is almost 4x wow's sub numbers, and not every sub player play wow everyday.
1.3B hours played a month. Divided by 70M. On average each register user plays 18.6 hours a month.
And obviously LoL e-sport is big.
The only question is ... whether LoL is making more money than WoW? Since the daily active users is like 4x of the wow sub number, you only need each person (active daily ones, not register user) to spend like $3.75 a month to beat wow's sub revenue.
Anyone knows what is the average spent of a LoL user?
Runescape has more registered and dailly players then wow as well. I don't play that either. LoL isn't even an mmo. I fail to see the point.
The company has grown to 1,000 employees, with offices in Dublin, Istanbul, Moscow, São Paulo, St. Louis, Seoul and Sydney. Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter estimates that Riot currently takes in about $200 million in annual revenue.
Originally posted by Phry Wait, more people like angry birds than like LoL does that mean LoL is in decline? guess they need to pull their finger out then and stop the rot!
I hit Ctrl F and typed in "decline". your post is the first time the word was used in this topic.
Now do the same thing and search for "declining".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
70M registered users. Well, you say, do they actually play the game?
32.5M daily active users. That is almost half of the 70M register users play daily. That is almost 4x wow's sub numbers, and not every sub player play wow everyday.
1.3B hours played a month. Divided by 70M. On average each register user plays 18.6 hours a month.
And obviously LoL e-sport is big.
The only question is ... whether LoL is making more money than WoW? Since the daily active users is like 4x of the wow sub number, you only need each person (active daily ones, not register user) to spend like $3.75 a month to beat wow's sub revenue.
Anyone knows what is the average spent of a LoL user?
They are both two completely different types of games. Comparisons are moot.
You got to take into account how many people actually pay real money into game me and my 3 brothers have played it for over a year and only my youngest brother has spent money and that was once. I Imagine there is a lot of people that never pay a penny into the game
Originally posted by obsolete5 it does have decent gameplay but the amount of skill required to be among the best players is not that high for the entire genre in my opinion. i liked DOTA a lot on wc3 when i was like 14 but LoL itself is a bit too cartoony and repetitive for me even though the combat is decently fun and engaging but doesnt really deliver much adrenaline rush.
not everyone is as skilled as you...
lol. that was amusing.
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
people who would not think of playing WoW (even if they might like it) play Lol. For example, CoD and counterstrike gamers who don't like RPGs. Also, RPG players plat MOBAs. so yeah, a MOBA is going to have more players if it's any good than an MMO because more kinds of gamers like it.
what this discussion is doing on an MMO forum, however, especially because the folks who run this forum also have a moba forum, is beyond the scope of this poster. the only thing it appears to be aimed at doing is disparaging an MMO which happens to have more money than god.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
people who would not think of playing WoW (even if they might like it) play Lol. For example, CoD and counterstrike gamers who don't like RPGs. Also, RPG players plat MOBAs. so yeah, a MOBA is going to have more players if it's any good than an MMO because more kinds of gamers like it.
what this discussion is doing on an MMO forum, however, especially because the folks who run this forum also have a moba forum, is beyond the scope of this poster. the only thing it appears to be aimed at doing is disparaging an MMO which happens to have more money than god.
Considering both titles are in this site's game list, the OP has done nothing but compare two types of games, one F2T and one P2P, and brought up the discussion of popularity of said games.
He may be using the "F2P vs. P2P" argument but it's still a valid one as each game can be referenced here.
I think the OP has mistaken WoW for Heroes of the Storm, I dont see WoW and LoL having anything in common and it's pointless to compare them in any way really. These games compete for the same audience as much as any random game in any random genre.
lol at all the comments with the words "making millions". Buy a lotto ticket. If 30 million people play, you still don't have a shot, even if the skill level is low. It would just come down to luck. Your retort to someone who says LoL doesn't take skill is not "go make millions", that's just illogical.
Lots of bad things get a lot of players, like the Halo franchise.
Lots of bad things get a lot of players, like the Halo franchise.
There is no metric that suffices; ad populum and ad numerum don't work, for the same reasons they never have. Ad antiquitatem is popular locally, Narius tends to endorse ad novitatem frequently. MMORPG.coms "game ratings" are worse than useless...
So there's no metric for "what makes a good game" that actually works except "because I said so".
Which game is best? Worst?
Fanboy vs. Fanboy. PC vs Mac. ATI vs Nvidia. Ford vs Chevy. Obama vs Boehner.
But the numbers do matter, very much, to which games get made next.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Lots of bad things get a lot of players, like the Halo franchise.
There is no metric that suffices; ad populum and ad numerum don't work, for the same reasons they never have. Ad antiquitatem is popular locally, Narius tends to endorse ad novitatem frequently. MMORPG.coms "game ratings" are worse than useless...
So there's no metric for "what makes a good game" that actually works except "because I said so".
Which game is best? Worst?
Fanboy vs. Fanboy. PC vs Mac. ATI vs Nvidia. Ford vs Chevy. Obama vs Boehner.
But the numbers do matter, very much, to which games get made next.
Talking about which game is best or worst is meaningless because different people have different preferences.
D3 is the best game to me, by a long mile, compared to any MMORPGs, present or past. I am sure there are some who disagree. Hence, finding a "best" game for all is just meaningless. Any list that does not put D3 on top does not apply to me.
The only objective measures are a) sales/popularity/number of active players, and b) metacritics and game ranking scores.
None of these tell me what is "good" or "bad" for me perfectly, but they do tell you, on average, how a game is liked, and certainly an indicator of the market and that is why devs pay attention to those.
League of Legends is a Free to Play game. Of course it has more players but that doesn't mean it's more successful. I highly doubt LoL is more profitable than WoW. Basically, there are a ton of crappy F2P games that can boast about WoW numbers or better but they aren't bringing in as much money. It's only more popular because it doesn't have any fees attached.
You guys HAVE to stop pushing this idea that there's no objective way to determine whether a certain game is better than another. Just because somebody prefers a game over another doesn't mean that game is better even for them! It simply means they're playing that one and not the other. That's it. Sometimes it may actually be because they really do prefer one game over another. Sometimes it may not.
There are a number of reasons why somebody may prefer a particular game over a different one. A major reason is often going to be inexperience. Take the sandbox vs themepark arguments that take place around here. You can't say that the 8 million people playing WoW prefer that over a game like SWG because they haven't PLAYED it. SWG topped out at like whatever 300k subs. Unless there was a TON of turnover and terrible player retention, I highly doubt most of the people playing WoW have also played SWG. They're ignorant of of the information they would need to determine which game they would prefer, so you can't say they prefer one over the other.
It may mean that WoW knows how to get people to play their game. That doesn't mean those 8 million people prefer it over a game they haven't tried.
Originally posted by Ujirik League of Legends is a Free to Play game. Of course it has more players but that doesn't mean it's more successful. I highly doubt LoL is more profitable than WoW. Basically, there are a ton of crappy F2P games that can boast about WoW numbers or better but they aren't bringing in as much money. It's only more popular because it doesn't have any fees attached.
If I had to guess I'd say that LoL is currently more profitable than WoW. I have a number of friends who play LoL and I'm sure they've all spent somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple hundred dollars buying champions/skins... and LoL has more than 3x the players.
Originally posted by Ujirik League of Legends is a Free to Play game. Of course it has more players but that doesn't mean it's more successful. I highly doubt LoL is more profitable than WoW. Basically, there are a ton of crappy F2P games that can boast about WoW numbers or better but they aren't bringing in as much money. It's only more popular because it doesn't have any fees attached.
If I had to guess I'd say that LoL is currently more profitable than WoW. I have a number of friends who play LoL and I'm sure they've all spent somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple hundred dollars buying champions/skins... and LoL has more than 3x the players.
3x the players right now. wows 12 million subs isn't the total of everyone that ever played the game or subed at one time. It was 12 milllion at that time.
If you consider how many people bought the box+ ex packs and paid subs for years. At 7 million subs that's still $105 mil a month. Just guessing but...I don't think wow has lost it's throne just yet.
Comments
One could compare MOBA games with puns in that it's the lowest form of wit/intelligence/comedy there is within it's sphere. The games are simple, many of the people playing it are simpler (we've all met these types and it isn't a generalization of everyone), and the only reason it's popular is because of the rivalry of teams and it's very simplicity. It's all about marketing to the lowest common denominator of gaming -- much like MMOs are starting to so (though they are the most complex and expensive of games) -- to bring in money. The difference being is that LoL is perhaps one of the most cost efficient games with cheap production and high income.
The key factor is having a low skill wall; one could be as good as a "pro" by simply learning how to click buttons and making / studying a sheet of what to do against multiple compositions with your own composition of characters that your team had chosen. It takes more skill topping the DPS charts in games with their rotations, or PvP with countering things with the dozens and dozens of tools you have rather than just a couple to memorize. It does boggle my mind a bit how popular it is, but so did the simplicity and success of Facebook games; many MOBA players would say that facebook gamers aren't true gamers, just how players of more complex games would say MOBA players aren't true gamers (if it's their main outlet).
That said, I'd rather own a successful Moba (or successful F2P MMO for that matter) than what is considered to be a successful P2P MMO simply because of how simple it is and how easy people are entertained with the same map(s) and a new character skin every once in a while. There is a saying that "the fool is easily parted of his money", and this largely applies to Facebook / Moba / many F2P mmos that rely on massive purchases from individuals. Though a fool is allowed to enjoy what he wants, and spend his money on what he wants; it's the way our economies thrive. One of the principals of business is "to find someone dumber than you and sell something to them", and while that is harsh in it's cold logic, it could apply to expertise and how one might buy something that only you know how to produce.
Point of the matter is there is really no arguing how simple these games are, and how easy they are to play at high skill level. It's the whole point in them making money; it's a reason why our MMOs are heading in that direction. The more simple among us (previously called casuals, but I don't think that's a valid assertion as many casuals just have families to take care of and do in fact have skill) who enjoy simple things vastly outnumber the skilled and those who are willing to / able to put in time for something. It's just good business to target said people, and is why simple things have been more successful than things with large amounts of complexity. Even writers suggest writing in simple and easy to understand words and ways; people don't want to feel dumb, have to think or look up words or have to memorize multiple things. Many also don't want to admit faults or accept feedback meant to better themselves without making a scene.
The phenom of these games isn't so much an enigma as it is just preying on human nature and statistics. This is especially true when the mob mentality enters whereby people have their favorite teams and gather together in the tens of thousands inside of chat rooms. It's quite possibly the same way Athletic sports became popular; though admittedly it takes much harder work for athletes (physical pain), and our perception of the human body bestows a natural admiration to those with toned bodies. Thus, one could assert that a game that is simple at it's core -- from concept to implementation -- will always have more people look to it than something of complexity (especially if said complexity has required payments involved to maintain said complexity; though the fact remains that some also play free games simply because they don't want to part with their money despite that many, many who do. Though that's the main reason on how people get drawn in and hooked by simplicity and want to become a bit more unique to further enjoy themselves).
Just look at the numbers from 2011 to get my point from above. In 2011 14 out of every 15 accounts did not play on a daily basis and now in 2013 it is up to 50% playing daily? There just isn't something right about that data. Either some company is running a boatload of bots that are pumping up both numbers or one of those two numbers is simply wrong. There is no way that 50% of all registered accounts are active daily.
Not LoL vs WoW
MOBA vs MMO
The MMO genre is dying a slow, painful death and I for one am happy to see it happen. Why?
One of two things can happen:
1. Developers will realize this and pull their collective heads out of their asses and do something to revive it.
2. The genre will die off for all but a few nostalgia whores and ultimately fade into obscurity.
I really don't care which of these things happens, as long as something happens so I can either invest in the genre's future or move along for good.
Until then, I'll be having fun in LoL and DOTA 2.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot. Hearthstone. It's quickly becoming my favorite game.
Already a lot of people are getting bored with it and have quit, Including me.
Anyway, back on topic, comparing two games that belong to two different genres is reflective of the immature LoL community.
I put up with LoL's horrible community as well as the ridiculously crap art theme for 6-7 months as I really enjoyed the gameplay. Finally got tired of the same old repetitive games over and over again though. I ended up only playing ARAM for the last weeks and even then, some games were practically copy/paste.
The skill required to be a top player in LoL isn't really that impressive either. Living proof is Ocelote and how utterly shit he is, yet is still considered a pro player.
9/10 Pro vs Pro games end up with one team steamrolling the other. Comebacks are practically impossible if you're careful (which isn't really hard).
My opinion is probably biased since I seem to have gotten tired of the MOBA scene. Just too much repetitive gameplay
..Cake..
They compete for PART of the same Market, not the complete market. The Market isn't that cut and dry.
Not all MMO Players play other genres, Not all FPS Players play MMOs or other genres either.... I only play MMOs and occasionally a single player rpg now and then, never a FPS, I know what League of Legends is, I have watched it being played and I am not interested into it, nor do I think it's a MMORPG, my opinion of course...
Comparing League of Legends with World of Warcraft and cheering because LoL has more Players is like comparing American Football with Baseball and cheering that more People like Football. Baseball Fans don't give a Rat's Petunia what Football Fans like or dislike generally. Do some People like both? Sure, but not everyone.
That is exactly what this thread is all about.
This post sounds perfect with the voice of Roy from IT crowd
How much does it cost to play lol ?
LoL is a great game but.... more ppl play farmville than wow every day. I wouldn't say it's better.
So no, still not beating WOW.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Runescape has more registered and dailly players then wow as well. I don't play that either. LoL isn't even an mmo. I fail to see the point.
The company has grown to 1,000 employees, with offices in Dublin, Istanbul, Moscow, São Paulo, St. Louis, Seoul and Sydney. Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter estimates that Riot currently takes in about $200 million in annual revenue.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/gaming/2013/07/11/league-of-legends-at-staples-center/2504935/
VS.
WoW use to make that in one month. Now they make about half of that in one month.
http://gamerant.com/world-of-warcraft-subscriptions-revenue-down/
Now do the same thing and search for "declining".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
They are both two completely different types of games. Comparisons are moot.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
not everyone is as skilled as you...
lol. that was amusing.
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
people who would not think of playing WoW (even if they might like it) play Lol. For example, CoD and counterstrike gamers who don't like RPGs. Also, RPG players plat MOBAs. so yeah, a MOBA is going to have more players if it's any good than an MMO because more kinds of gamers like it.
what this discussion is doing on an MMO forum, however, especially because the folks who run this forum also have a moba forum, is beyond the scope of this poster. the only thing it appears to be aimed at doing is disparaging an MMO which happens to have more money than god.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Considering both titles are in this site's game list, the OP has done nothing but compare two types of games, one F2T and one P2P, and brought up the discussion of popularity of said games.
He may be using the "F2P vs. P2P" argument but it's still a valid one as each game can be referenced here.
lol at all the comments with the words "making millions". Buy a lotto ticket. If 30 million people play, you still don't have a shot, even if the skill level is low. It would just come down to luck. Your retort to someone who says LoL doesn't take skill is not "go make millions", that's just illogical.
Lots of bad things get a lot of players, like the Halo franchise.
There is no metric that suffices; ad populum and ad numerum don't work, for the same reasons they never have. Ad antiquitatem is popular locally, Narius tends to endorse ad novitatem frequently. MMORPG.coms "game ratings" are worse than useless...
So there's no metric for "what makes a good game" that actually works except "because I said so".
Which game is best? Worst?
Fanboy vs. Fanboy. PC vs Mac. ATI vs Nvidia. Ford vs Chevy. Obama vs Boehner.
But the numbers do matter, very much, to which games get made next.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Talking about which game is best or worst is meaningless because different people have different preferences.
D3 is the best game to me, by a long mile, compared to any MMORPGs, present or past. I am sure there are some who disagree. Hence, finding a "best" game for all is just meaningless. Any list that does not put D3 on top does not apply to me.
The only objective measures are a) sales/popularity/number of active players, and b) metacritics and game ranking scores.
None of these tell me what is "good" or "bad" for me perfectly, but they do tell you, on average, how a game is liked, and certainly an indicator of the market and that is why devs pay attention to those.
You guys HAVE to stop pushing this idea that there's no objective way to determine whether a certain game is better than another. Just because somebody prefers a game over another doesn't mean that game is better even for them! It simply means they're playing that one and not the other. That's it. Sometimes it may actually be because they really do prefer one game over another. Sometimes it may not.
There are a number of reasons why somebody may prefer a particular game over a different one. A major reason is often going to be inexperience. Take the sandbox vs themepark arguments that take place around here. You can't say that the 8 million people playing WoW prefer that over a game like SWG because they haven't PLAYED it. SWG topped out at like whatever 300k subs. Unless there was a TON of turnover and terrible player retention, I highly doubt most of the people playing WoW have also played SWG. They're ignorant of of the information they would need to determine which game they would prefer, so you can't say they prefer one over the other.
It may mean that WoW knows how to get people to play their game. That doesn't mean those 8 million people prefer it over a game they haven't tried.
If I had to guess I'd say that LoL is currently more profitable than WoW. I have a number of friends who play LoL and I'm sure they've all spent somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple hundred dollars buying champions/skins... and LoL has more than 3x the players.
3x the players right now. wows 12 million subs isn't the total of everyone that ever played the game or subed at one time. It was 12 milllion at that time.
If you consider how many people bought the box+ ex packs and paid subs for years. At 7 million subs that's still $105 mil a month. Just guessing but...I don't think wow has lost it's throne just yet.