Everquest Next: Immersion Server Proposed Ruleset Poll

Bivin

For a proposed separate Immersion server in Everquest Next, a proposed ( still rough draft ) ruleset is posted in the blurb below a poll at:

http://www.wepolls.com/p/20521024/Would-you-create-a-character-on-an-Immersion-Server-in-Everquest-Next-%2C-EQ-Next-%28See-Blurb-below-for-proposed-server-rules.

Please read the rough draft of the proposed ruleset, vote in the poll, and discuss your vote here.

This thread is not for whether or not you think such a ruleset could or should be adopted.

This thread is not about casual gameplay versus Immersion (some call it hardcore ) gameplay, or the pros/cons of each.

This thread is simply about whether or not such a ruleset would attract you to that server, yes or no, and why or why not.

Not everyone will agree here, so we can agree to disagree, respect each other's choices, and grow in clarity and accurate perception.

Debate is welcome, so long as it is respectful.

 

For your convenience ( cough, sorry ) here's a copy of the proposed ruleset (note, #6 is under reconsideration by some)

"We propose an Immersion server. The differences would be as follows:"

In an Immersion server:
1. Travel is firmly curtailed; no flight paths, no flying mounts (unless there are flying monsters as well--or limited to flying-required areas only), long refresh timer on 'gate', low occurrence of portals to promote exploration over convenience.

2. There is corpse recovery or other harsh death penalty, so that the world feels dangerous again. Not perma-death, not perma-lose your items. Just harsh in terms of time and difficulty to curtail things like using death to skip content and to restore a fear of death.

3. There is increased over-all difficulty level so that grouping is encouraged even during short play periods.

4. Group planning is encouraged because there is no 'summon group' type abilities/ stones/ etc.

5. Players may transfer off the server, but characters may not transfer onto the server from standard servers. The only way onto the server is to create a new character. No power leveling a standard character and then dropping into the dangerous world. Progression will be tougher and it would be unbalancing to allow super-advanced characters from other servers.

6. Mounts would have a hitpoint threshold and be vulnerable to attack, thus bringing increased danger levels and a more difficult economy.

7. Items will have weight, and you'll have a limit! This would promote a more conscious decision of what you carry on you and when you return to your home-- especially with low frequency of hearthing type abilities.

8. No rest exp.

9. No auctioneers or auction houses. the economy is player driven and interaction is required for buying, selling, and bartering with other players.

10. Gear is rare but tradeable. No more "no-trade" drops.

11. No instancing.

12. All, or most, NPCs are able to be attacked.

"Does such a server have interest for you?" - See more at: #sthash.Bz4SvEQ9.dpuf" rel="nofollow">http://www.wepolls.com/p/20521024/Would-you-create-a-character-on-an-Immersion-Server-in-Everquest-Next-,-EQ-Next-(See-Blurb-below-for-proposed-server-rules.#sthash.Bz4SvEQ9.dpuf

 

 

 

Mavolence

I would vote yes and would play on that server but im not going to sign up for another poll

Abimor

Some of the things in your poll sound good, but then others are just not for me. I would not mind a weight total, but would mind a corpse run as I play in the late night most of the time then play during prime time on Sundays. Another thing is the fast travel I would not care if you had to get to the place first but after that I would want some kind of fast travel there or summoning ability for groups. So like I said some of your ideas I like others I don't. 

itchmon

that's not a server ruleset, that's a whole different game.

 

you cant expect the devs to up difficulty and completely turn off instancing  if their game is designed around certain parts being instanced.  "up difficulty" might be easy to write but there's a lot more to it than just giving mobs more HP and damage- in fact if this difficulty increase were actually carried out, the big complaint would be "all they did was up the HP and damage  on the enemies".

 

also Don't mistake "immersion" with "difficulty".  they DO sometimes overlap!  but not always.  and immersion is subjective.  For example I'll use myself.  to me unlimited teleports are immersion breakers, BUT flight paths aren't.  to whoever made the original list, flight paths are indeed immersion breakers.  Personally I imagine my character takes a stagecoach or a caravan to get where she or he wants, then resumes his or her adventures.

 

I LIKE things such as tough death penalties in an MMO but is that an immersion thing?  or is it a "good play is rewarded" thing?

 

what immersion means to me is the removal of things that remind me "its a game" and the emphasis on the things that make me invested in my character.

Speely

I like it. I would even go for an even harsher death penalty, but at least something non-vanilla is good.

The attackable NPCs is a bit iffy to me. Would you be able to loot them? If you kill a merchant can you steal as much as you can carry? How long are they dead for? Forever? An hour? Would code have to be written to implement a dedicated crime system to facilitate further immersion in the form of consequences for the inevitable killing sprees that will ensue?

Despite those questions (which aren't indictments of a poor idea, but honest inquiries about the logistics of NPC slaying) I would play on this server in a heartbeat.

 

Biskop

Sounds like my kind of server.

Burdoc101

You should check out my thread friend, talks about such of an idea. :-)

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/952/view/forums/thread/397104/Server-Mechanisms-for-the-Player-and-Community.html

Burdoc101

Would totally play the immersion server.

xeniar

exept for rule #7 oh please GOD!!! yes yes yes yes yes!!!!

arieste

I have no interest in such a server, or the poll, but offer one piece of feedback:

 

The name "immersion" is completely misleading for what you're talking about.  Most of the points have absolutely nothing to do with what's commonly termed "immersion" in an MMO setting.  "Hardcore" or possible "Old School" would be better names.  Although, "old school" only fits if one is coming from a certain type of server in a certain type of game.  

 

Additionally, given what is known (or not known) about EQN, i think this type of post is better put into "general discussion" forum.  As it stands it doesn't seem to take into consideration ANY EQN-specific mechanics or issues.  It seems to be a list drawn that can be applied to any random game in development and has nothing to do with EQN other than being posted on its board.

sgtalon

What he is talking about is Old School EQ1 rules. I remember those days.

 

I think it is a cool idea to offer a server like that. Especially things like corpse runs. Summon corpse is not a bad thing though. I remember saving my diamonds so i could get a Necro to summon my corpse when i got jacked in Velk's Lab! 

 

Some of those things are definitely game mechanics that would be hard to modify. Like the Instancing. Some locations are just going to be designed as instances. I don't know that you can avoid those things.

 

But i think that the Auction House is a good thing. Sometimes, you just don't have time to sell things. Maybe a Guildbank style auction house would be cool. Where you deposit your stuff with an NPC and it sell for you with a percentage of the money going to the auction house. Selling direct you can get full price.

 

Current EQ Bazaar is a bit crazy. Especially the prices! 

 

Overall i would love to have something like this as an option. Sure you can play the carebear server, but the Oldschool PVP servers is where the real hardcore peeps go.

 

Ender4

I would play on this type of server but this poll doesn't seem very useful until we get more info about how EQN is going to work in the first place.

I'm also against them spending a lot of time on a special ruleset server. It is great to have them but they can't require their own dev team to make them work.

rutaq

Originally posted by Biskop
Sounds like my kind of server.

Sounds good to me.

Thupli

IMo you should drop the stuff that would make a server like this coding intensive, because you just won't get it.

Magiknight

Now this is something I could play. NO INSTANCES!!! DEATH PENALTY! DIFFICULT! YAY

KenFisher

A ruleset that's not EZ mode?  Sounds great.

Vorthanion

What is immersive for one is not for another.  I don't find many of your pet peeves to be conducive to me feeling immersed in a game.  As far as I'm concerned, this is nothing more than a thinly veiled argument for hardcore mechanics.  A cohesive world where everything makes sense and where the characters feel like they belong and have a bearing on the course of history is where I find immersion.  That and graphics style and art that fits my tastes and my vision of the game.  In fact, this desperate need for people to put combat directly under their control instead of depending on the character's stats and skills is one of the largest breaks in immersion for me in a majority of today's MMOs.  I want to feel like I am in a magical world that makes sense and anything that plays like an arcade game just makes me feel like I'm playing an arcade game.

Wizardry

I don't want any server with SPECIAL rules or terms,i just want a game that when something happens,i can say "oh nice that makes sense".

Things like yellow markers over npc heads is dumb.XP bonus for resting  is dumb and it goes on and on,why would we have to vote are beg for something to make sense?Corpse runs,umm no that is another dumb idea,we all know we are not going to die in these games ,so why pretend.Instead you should be KO'd with in jury.That is why so many games make you rest for several minutes to recover from a KO and your stats will be weaker from the injury,at least it makes sense.

I seriously don't know what these system guys are thinking if at all,why can't they see the obvious and just design the game properly without copying aged old bad ideas?

Immersion is achieved by removing all the fake things in games that should not be visible,like yellow markers on npc's and maps and sparklies showing you where to go or what to click on.We should not see colored red hues around enemies we click and why are games like Wildstar putting red carpets on the ground,where  does those red carpets come from,magically from the sky?Or does every creature have some special gift of laying out red carpet when they attack,it just looks dumb.

rutaq

Originally posted by Vorthanion
What is immersive for one is not for another.  I don't find many of your pet peeves to be conducive to me feeling immersed in a game.  As far as I'm concerned, this is nothing more than a thinly veiled argument for hardcore mechanics.  

 

  So you acknowledge that immersion can be different things for different people and then you dismiss hardcore mechanics ?

 

As a player that judges immersion  of a game based on  hardcore mechanic because they keep me with a stake in the game, something at risk, etc..  

 

I am confused about the "thinly veiled argument" comment, are you saying immersion can be different for different people, as long as those people aren't hardcore MMO players ?        o.0

 

 

Iceman8235

This server looks a lot like the original EverQuest and what I expected EverQuest next to be like.  I wish the whole game was like this, but having a server or two dedicated to it is better than nothing  At first I thought a developer posted this info, but it looks like it was just a regular guy

Kremchek

All but #7. Yep..

Scalpless

Weird, #7 makes it sound like the normal version of EQN won't have an inventory limit.

Mawnee

I would play on this server.

Swedish_Chef

Originally posted by Bivin

For a proposed separate Immersion server in Everquest Next, a proposed ( still rough draft ) ruleset is posted in the blurb below a poll at:

http://www.wepolls.com/p/20521024/Would-you-create-a-character-on-an-Immersion-Server-in-Everquest-Next-%2C-EQ-Next-%28See-Blurb-below-for-proposed-server-rules.

Please read the rough draft of the proposed ruleset, vote in the poll, and discuss your vote here.

This thread is not for whether or not you think such a ruleset could or should be adopted.

This thread is not about casual gameplay versus Immersion (some call it hardcore ) gameplay, or the pros/cons of each.

This thread is simply about whether or not such a ruleset would attract you to that server, yes or no, and why or why not.

Not everyone will agree here, so we can agree to disagree, respect each other's choices, and grow in clarity and accurate perception.

Debate is welcome, so long as it is respectful.

 

For your convenience ( cough, sorry ) here's a copy of the proposed ruleset (note, #6 is under reconsideration by some)

"We propose an Immersion server. The differences would be as follows:"

In an Immersion server:
1. Travel is firmly curtailed; no flight paths, no flying mounts (unless there are flying monsters as well--or limited to flying-required areas only), long refresh timer on 'gate', low occurrence of portals to promote exploration over convenience.
 

Okay, but as anyone who's played Dragon's Dogma can tell you, constantly tracking back & forth between the same areas gets old very quickly.

2. There is corpse recovery or other harsh death penalty, so that the world feels dangerous again. Not perma-death, not perma-lose your items. Just harsh in terms of time and difficulty to curtail things like using death to skip content and to restore a fear of death.

 

No thank you. I've suffered far too many deaths over the years from technical issues & ISP failures to ever play a game with a harsh death penalty, to say nothing of one requiring corpse runs.

3. There is increased over-all difficulty level so that grouping is encouraged even during short play periods.
 

So even if I only have an hour to play, I have to waste time spamming chat looking for a group? No thanks.

4. Group planning is encouraged because there is no 'summon group' type abilities/ stones/ etc.

 

I see where you're going with this. I kind of agree, except that people will go back to spamming chat channels looking for groups.

5. Players may transfer off the server, but characters may not transfer onto the server from standard servers. The only way onto the server is to create a new character. No power leveling a standard character and then dropping into the dangerous world. Progression will be tougher and it would be unbalancing to allow super-advanced characters from other servers.

 

Agreed.

6. Mounts would have a hitpoint threshold and be vulnerable to attack, thus bringing increased danger levels and a more difficult economy.

 

I would go for a system where, if the mount takes too much damage, you are dismounted & the mount can't be summoned for a reasonable amount of time.

7. Items will have weight, and you'll have a limit! This would promote a more conscious decision of what you carry on you and when you return to your home-- especially with low frequency of hearthing type abilities.

 

No. These games are constantly throwing loot at you, and dealing with weight on top of inventory space would be too much of a hassle.

8. No rest exp.

 

I don't really care about this, lol.

9. No auctioneers or auction houses. the economy is player driven and interaction is required for buying, selling, and bartering with other players.
 

You DO realize that a player driven economy is easier to establish when there's a central trade hub, right? AH is a logical convenience feature, and I wouldn't play a game without one. 

10. Gear is rare but tradeable. No more "no-trade" drops.

 

Agree with this, but what measures would be in place to stop farming by, shall we say, less-than-scrupulous individuals?

11. No instancing.
 

I love the concept of open dungeons, but I'd want instancing for 'boss rooms'. Waiting for a particular boss to spawn only to have it 'tagged' by another group is frustrating beyond belief.

12. All, or most, NPCs are able to be attacked.

 

As long as there are guards and / or other things to contend with, and the NPCs respawn, I have no problem with this.

"Does such a server have interest for you?" - See more at: #sthash.Bz4SvEQ9.dpuf" rel="nofollow">http://www.wepolls.com/p/20521024/Would-you-create-a-character-on-an-Immersion-Server-in-Everquest-Next-,-EQ-Next-(See-Blurb-below-for-proposed-server-rules.#sthash.Bz4SvEQ9.dpuf

 

Nope. Wouldn't pay a cent to play on a server like this. MMO's have evolved, and have thankfully moved away from most of the archaic designs presented here. However, I would have no problem supporting a server like this for people who are most likely fairly masochistic.

 

 

solarbear88

None of these things ever eventuate. No matter the interest.

quixadhal

Originally posted by Bivin

 

In an Immersion server:

1. Travel is firmly curtailed; no flight paths, no flying mounts (unless there are flying monsters as well--or limited to flying-required areas only), long refresh timer on 'gate', low occurrence of portals to promote exploration over convenience.

Good.  I agree, but I'll propose taking it a step further.  No in-game radar-blip minimap.  Maps are fine, but only general maps of the area.  Players should have to learn the layout and recognize landmarks to navigate, thus allowing them to actually become LOST.

 

2. There is corpse recovery or other harsh death penalty, so that the world feels dangerous again. Not perma-death, not perma-lose your items. Just harsh in terms of time and difficulty to curtail things like using death to skip content and to restore a fear of death.

A harsh penalty is fine.  No time sinks, which is what corpse recovery is.  Most people don't have the luxury of sitting on the game for 8 hours at a stretch, and having to waste half an hour getting their corpse back is just not a fun way to play the game.

 

Instead, I'd rather see equipment take damage from wear-and-tear, and take considerably MORE damage on death.  Further, I'd like that equipment to be permanently destroyed (falling to the ground as scraps) if the durability reached 0%.  Old text MUD's used to do this, and it meant you could keep playing after a death, but it got more and more risky if you didn't repair.

 

 

3. There is increased over-all difficulty level so that grouping is encouraged even during short play periods.

Group play is not something that's determined by difficulty.  Group play is determined by each class having known strengths and weaknesses, and having a group lets each member shore up their weaknesses with the strengths of the other group members.

 

If you're playing a fighter, you should be very afraid trying to solo against archers, or againt magic users.  If you're a mage, melee fighters are deadly to you.  Thus, a fighter and mage in a group would make a team that offsets each others weaknesses.  Continue that idea for however many classes you want to have.

 

 

4. Group planning is encouraged because there is no 'summon group' type abilities/ stones/ etc.

Meh, again, this makes the game too annoying for people who can only play for an hour or two at a time.  Nobody wants to spend half their gaming session travelling to meet the rest of the group.

 

Instead, make group formation something that can only be done in town.  Once you join a group, if you die, wander off, get disconnected, whatever... you can be summoned back... but if you can only form a group in town, it will make it more likely you'll stick with your group.

 

5. Players may transfer off the server, but characters may not transfer onto the server from standard servers. The only way onto the server is to create a new character. No power leveling a standard character and then dropping into the dangerous world. Progression will be tougher and it would be unbalancing to allow super-advanced characters from other servers.

Agreed.

 

 

6. Mounts would have a hitpoint threshold and be vulnerable to attack, thus bringing increased danger levels and a more difficult economy.

Agreed.  I'd even suggest that mounts not be a permanent item at all.  As with a party, if you want a mount you have to rent one in town, or if you have a stable and own one, you have to retrieve it from your home.

 

 

7. Items will have weight, and you'll have a limit! This would promote a more conscious decision of what you carry on you and when you return to your home-- especially with low frequency of hearthing type abilities.

Agreed,  but if you have a mount, allow it to carry an inventory as well.

 

 

 

8. No rest exp.

Fine.  I'd prefer to have the equivalent of EQ2's "AA" slider, so I can control the speed of leveling to avoid running off the end of content.

 

 

9. No auctioneers or auction houses. the economy is player driven and interaction is required for buying, selling, and bartering with other players.

Nope.  Totally disagree.  Again, this cuts into playing time.  I want to play the game, not sit in one spot spamming the chat channels to sell stuff.  I certainly don't want to have to read chat spam to find someone selling stuff I want to buy.

 

EVE did this right.  A full market with both buy and sell orders.  However, like EVE, make the markets regional.  If I'm in Antonica and buy something cheap, maybe I can spend the time to ferry it to Kunark and sell it there for profit.

 

10. Gear is rare but tradeable. No more "no-trade" drops.

Agreed.  Again, lke EVE.

 

 

11. No instancing.

I can't agree with this either.  Again, it's a time issue.  Nobody enjoys spending 2 hours working their way down through a dungeon, only to find the boss who spawns every 3 days dead, and two other groups already standing in line, camping.

 

 

12. All, or most, NPCs are able to be attacked.

HAHAHA, yes.  I remember my first days of EQ1, and hitting 'a' instead of 'h'... oops, not again!