Originally posted by Mardukk I dunno, I prefer to watch TV and play games on my PC at the same time. Console ties up my TV...it's really as simple as that for me. Also I think there is an age difference between the average PC and console gamer. I am not going to rush to play with an, on average, younger crowd ( I could be wrong about this but I would be utterly shocked if I was).
Seems less of an issue with the platform and more a preference of what types of games you play. It is way easier to zone out on an mmo and be able to watch tv while "playing". But on my console not so much. Even if I had another TV in the room, I wouldn't really be able to watch it. The games I play on my console tend to require much more hand eye coordination and typically have less downtime.
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
Feel free to post a source. Because every single one I have found is backed by social games like Farmville, not Core games that we as "gamers" tend to consider games.
Originally posted by Livnthedream Lol. So much butthurt. Whether he is a douchebag or not is immaterial, he is absolutely right. But hey guys, denigrate him and continue to believe that you magically know more.
Furthermore controllers are becoming more precise with every iteration, and they will someday match the speed and precision of a mouse.
Never, A thumb on a knob will never be as precise as a mouse period.
Have you seen the Steambox controller? Touchpad. No knobs anywhere on the thing. Obviously still not as precise as a mouse, but to deny that controller tech will catch up to mice eventually is incredibly short sighted.
Do you understand why the mouse and keyboard is going to be superior for a very very long time if not until new hardware is developed?
First is the fact that people don't actually look at how advanced the mouse and keyboard actually is. Because its been around since we were born people take it for granted. But the fact of the matter is that its ingenious and there is a reason why its been used for decades and hasn't needed to be changed or altered like a controller.
Next it the actual physical limitation of using a controller for aiming. Unless a game is set up with a massive amount of auto aim or aim assistance you will never have the ability to change your camera angle as fast as you can with a mouse. The area that you can physically move a thumbstick is limited, were as for a mouse has potentially unlimited space to move about.
What that extra physical movement space allows is for much much more precise movement because you are not physically limited in the speed at which your character can turn.
Yes you can argue that you just have to turn up your sensitivity, but you are still stuck with the same problem. You can not physically control a thumpstick as well as a mouse. The physical space is just not there.
Then you go into the realm of using your thumb, vrs your whole entire arm. Your thumb is one of the least flexible, and mobile fingers you have. Think about how long it took you as a child to be able to write. Now think about how long it took you to be able to throw a ball. Your arm is better at doing fine motor skills than your thumb. Which again creates another limitation to a controller.
Also those that say a controller is better for fighting games. That is only true because most fighting games are not designed to be used by a keyboard. Even using a fighting stick its still faster to press a button than it is to move a joystick. For those of you that think otherwise I would like to point you at the Hit Box. An arcade box that uses buttons for movement and direction instead of a joystick. Watch the video of the guy doing I think it was 30+ Zangief ultras perfectly on the ground with out jumping. The motion of the ultra is 2x full circles in SF4 which makes it almost impossible to do it with out jumping.
Also, this is just another guy trying to put a ding on PC gaming. He is a marketer for Console gaming. You don't think he has an invested interest in bashing PC gaming and Hyping Console gaming?
Also, this is just another guy trying to put a ding on PC gaming. He is a marketer for Console gaming. You don't think he has an invested interest in bashing PC gaming and Hyping Console gaming?
Besides being extremely defensive, this is also wrong. His firm helped bring in 2 of the investors who helped Acti-Blizzard buy back their shares from Vivendi.
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north america almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North america vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
Also, this is just another guy trying to put a ding on PC gaming. He is a marketer for Console gaming. You don't think he has an invested interest in bashing PC gaming and Hyping Console gaming?
Besides being extremely defensive, this is also wrong. His firm helped bring in 2 of the investors who helped Acti-Blizzard buy back their shares from Vivendi.
not to mention there is another video where he states quite openly that he is a bigger fan of pc gaming then console mostly because he can play it at work. He also states that he loves mmorpgs but stopped playing them due to the time investment involved.
yea hooking my PC to a TV with a router doesnt sound ignorant at all. Its his lack of knowledge about the subject and stereo typing the PC gamer is whats insulting. Please look at the video and actually listen to what he says before you comment your self.
You were being trolled and you took the bait.
@everyone who keeps focusing on controller vs mouse:
THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE MARKET DOES NOT CARE IF THE MOUSE IS MORE ACCURATE. Clearly if they did then consoles would not be absolutely crushing the pc market. Similarly Tawess argument that pc's are better cause you can upgrade them, the market does not really care. Go take a look at the Steam Survey!
Is it the controller that makes the console market or is it the games they tend to make? What if consoles had decided to go with mouse and keyboard from the beginning, something tells me it would still crush the market because it makes the kinds of games that brain dead people want and because it's a dirt cheap platform compared to PC gaming. There is more than enough to go around for both platforms (the market is why they both exist in the first place) and people like you and the guy in the video are needlessly beating a dead horse.
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north america almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North america vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
The PC market is more than big enough to justify its continued existence, thank you very much.
Um... yeah... hes a bit of a tool for that remark. I mean yes, there are people with the whole 'PC master race' deal but they aren't all like that. Personally I'm on the side of PC (and I own consoles btw) for the fact it is much more powerful and a lot more customizable. In the long run a PC will outshine any console in terms of its graphical abilities. Mouse and keyboard ARE superior choices for games, though obviously not all games. Strategy games will shine with them (until perhaps touch screen becomes better) while a console will find itself being stronger with say action games.
Seems almost pointed and bitter. Is that jealousy? haha I really don't know if it is or why you would feel such. In the end the PC WILL be superior to consoles in graphics and adaptability. Still doesn't mean consoles are bad. In the end, that flexability and variant is also a flaw as it leaves more room for troubles and issues as systems all function a bit differently rather then being all the same like consoles. Look at Android Vs iPhone. The Androids are for the most part vastly superior to their apple counterparts (though the latest phones have caught up to be far less behind), however you are more likely to see issues on androids due to
1.) More freedom = more room for users to do things they aren't suppose to which can cause issues.
2.) More hardware means theres more components software developers need to consider when creating an application that can run on a wide varienty of devices all made with different parts.
Rather then make PC an enemy, why not consider it as a possibility that they might 'merge'. PCs are getting the ability pushed to 'stream' to the TV providing entertainment on the couch, while consoles are adapting to provide more features much like a PC. Rather then 'hate' on PC, while not really look at it and see that in a way the two are becoming more interlinked, to the point we might have a PC that can act like a console, providing us the needs of a PC while we want it, while using say a 'steam box' or other hardware it can give us the console feeling we also desire.
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north america almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North america vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
About $21~$24 Billion is in Console Sales. About $16 Billion is in PC Game Software Sales. From those PC Sales, About $3 billion is in MMO revenue models, and $4 billion in digital downloads.
The $24 Billion figure for Console Sales most likely includes hardware and software since most sites like NDP show monthly figures under a billion for hardware or software. Realistically during 2011, you are looking at $11 billion in sales of console software. 2011 was also a peak on console software sales, so its been on the decline since where as PC game sales are increasing.
For instance Black Ops has made $50 million on its best selling game. 3rd rate MMO publishers also make $50 million yearly.
Another critical thing to examine is competition. There is a lot of competition in the Console Market Place. There are very few Commercial PC publishers.
Is it the controller that makes the console market or is it the games they tend to make? What if consoles had decided to go with mouse and keyboard from the beginning, something tells me it would still crush the market because it makes the kinds of games that brain dead people want and because it's a dirt cheap platform compared to PC gaming. There is more than enough to go around for both platforms (the market is why they both exist in the first place) and people like you and the guy in the video are needlessly beating a dead horse.
You realize that the console market began before the mouse was invented right? You know, way back in the day before such control was needed.
Originally posted by Vorthanion
The PC market is more than big enough to justify its continued existence, thank you very much.
No one here has questioned that. Pc's do certainly fill a niche. There is zero doubt about that. Attempting to argue that the pc is some kind of monolithic leader though is foolish as there is zero evidence to support it. If you have some, or even a logical argument based on observation please present it. I too would like more support for the pc.
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north america almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North america vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
About $21~$24 Billion is in Console Sales. About $16 Billion is in PC Game Software Sales. From those PC Sales, About $3 billion is in MMO revenue models, and $4 billion in digital downloads.
The $24 Billion figure for Console Sales most likely includes hardware and software since most sites like NDP show monthly figures under a billion for hardware or software. Realistically during 2011, you are looking at $11 billion in sales of console software. 2011 was also a peak on console software sales, so its been on the decline since where as PC game sales are increasing.
For instance Black Ops has made $50 million on its best selling game. 3rd rate MMO publishers also make $50 million yearly.
Another critical thing to examine is competition. There is a lot of competition in the Console Market Place. There are very few Commercial PC publishers.
I'm unsure if this was meant as a detraction to my point or to confirm my point? The numbers speak volumes here. only 15 billion of the 50 billion sales you posted was from pc game software sales. which leaves 34 billion between consoles. I'm a little perturbed by the lack of sources for all these numbers but even the article admits:
The PC game category is a mere 8% of the $50 billion industry.
About $21~$24 Billion is in Console Sales. About $16 Billion is in PC Game Software Sales. From those PC Sales, About $3 billion is in MMO revenue models, and $4 billion in digital downloads.
The $24 Billion figure for Console Sales most likely includes hardware and software since most sites like NDP show monthly figures under a billion for hardware or software. Realistically during 2011, you are looking at $11 billion in sales of console software. 2011 was also a peak on console software sales, so its been on the decline since where as PC game sales are increasing.
For instance Black Ops has made $50 million on its best selling game. 3rd rate MMO publishers also make $50 million yearly.
Another critical thing to examine is competition. There is a lot of competition in the Console Market Place. There are very few Commercial PC publishers.
From the very link you provided:
Valve’s strength in PC gaming may, however, be its limiting factor. The PC game category is a mere 8% of the $50 billion industry.
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north america almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North america vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
The PC market is more than big enough to justify its continued existence, thank you very much.
I'm looking for evidence not hyperbole. let me show you the ropes here. Epic who made alot of their money on pc games and licensing their engine was more concerned with following console cycles for Unreal Engine 4.0 than pc Their priorities are listed here:
"[Unreal Engine 4.0] will exclusively target the next console generation, Microsoft's successor for the Xbox 360, Sony's successor for the Playstation 3 - and if Nintendo ships a machine with similar hardware specs, then that also. PCs will follow after that." - Epic Games Tim Sweeny
"Frankly we are linking ourselves to the PS4," he continues by saying that it’s a "driving beacon" for his company, despite the fact that Sony hasn’t given the company full details. "That’s probably the most important information that our company is missing."
"While PC hardware is in contestant flux, the consoles give developers a fixed window of constraints. And because Crytek games use high-tone graphics engines, they must start designing for the future."- Crytek’s Cevat Yerli
Epic Games Cliff Bleszinski decided not to release gears of war 2 on the pc citing piracy as a reason in this interview:
" Do you see the Xbox 360 as the main platform as opposed to the PC? During the whole Unreal time it was very much PC focused.
The PC right now is a fair amount different to what it was back in the day, with all the badly integrated video chips. Here's the problem right now; the person who is savvy enough to want to have a good PC to upgrade their video card, is a person who is savvy enough to know bit torrent to know all the elements so they can pirate software. Therefore, high-end videogames are suffering very much on the PC.
So piracy was a main point for you...
Right now, it makes sense for us to focus on Xbox 360 for a number of reasons. Not least PCs with multiple configurations and piracy.
But when the dust has settled, is there any possibility of Gears 2 on PC?
Really don't get the hate going on because from a business standpoint he is correct. PC is a very small amount of the video game market watch any analyst of the market worth anything and he will say the same thing.
....and lots of conjecture that is wrong, wrong, wrong. But very nicely written, and I say that without sarcasm.
"EA posted earnings for the first quarter of its 2014 fiscal year....and they show that the company's net revenue from PC gaming actually rose by 8% compared to the same quarter last year. Not only that, but at $298 million, EA's PC revenue was higher than its Xbox 360 revenue ($256 million) or its PlayStation 3 revenue ($238 million)."
Nvidia spokesman Ben Berraondo - "Pretty much every game advert and show demo this last year has been running on PC hardware - and gamers are catching on."
"...desktop PC sales are consistently dropping, PC gaming hardware is continuing to rise."
“GTX desktop GPU sales are growing. GTX 660 and above the market is growing massively. Which we never thought it would. We thought it would stay flat, from a couple years ago, but we are selling more and more GTX cards."
"...more and more people are moving over to have a gaming PC - we’re not seeing that market shrink at all. What’s happening is gamers from console are moving across and buying a gaming PC and that market’s remaining flat or growing."
I really loved this part, because its so fucking true "...we may well see devs primarily marketing their games using PC footage at E3 2014 - no matter what Microsoft and Sony can come up with in 2013." Dont want to believe it? Next time youre at a show ask what platform their using to demo their console game...bet you its not a console.
For the last couple of years, the revenue from console video game sales has stagnated at around $23 billion per year. PC game sales, on the other hand, have grown from $13 billion to $18 billion over the past two years. DFC, a market research firm, expects console game sales to stagnate or shrink slightly, while the PC sector will continue to grow."
I even linked to the research companys website just so you know they arent being biased. And btw that report still seems to be accurate two years after it was written in late 2011.
Some nice fun facts. Whos data supports and is supported by the other links I provided, all from different sources I would like to add. Meaning Im not taking four different articles written from the same source material just so I can support the facts.
Chris Roberts developer of Star Citizen starting @ 14:30 -
"I think if you make games specifically for the PC there's a huge PC audience that will support you." Not only support you, but give you ten of millions of dollars with no guarantee of return to make a PC only game.
"The problem has been people ignoring the PC. I mean thats why I wanted to build Star Citizen in the first place. I was sick of playing bad ports of a console game thats based on seven year old tech on my top of the line PC."
It is a great video to watch.
All the reasons above is why you are wrong, wrong, wrong Abang, along with all the others who thinks this guys is right. And thats why Mr. Pach is deserving of the scorn, ridicule and insults hes getting.
Im sure I read in this thread where someone said this guys (Pachs) word is followed by industry decision makers? Maybe thats why PC gaming revenues has been catching up to console revenues for the past four plus years...
LOL!
Hell, did anyone else notice he avoided the whole next gen consoles are comparable to current mid range PC's *implied* question....LOL. I bet he was afraid to answer it, least he angers the console giants.
Like I said in my other post, the fact the he is blatantly showing off product placements for consoles only shows hes biased as fuck. As a matter of fact Im suprised hes allowed to pull that corparate **** out of his mouth to talk as long as he was.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north america almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North america vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
About $21~$24 Billion is in Console Sales. About $16 Billion is in PC Game Software Sales. From those PC Sales, About $3 billion is in MMO revenue models, and $4 billion in digital downloads.
The $24 Billion figure for Console Sales most likely includes hardware and software since most sites like NDP show monthly figures under a billion for hardware or software. Realistically during 2011, you are looking at $11 billion in sales of console software. 2011 was also a peak on console software sales, so its been on the decline since where as PC game sales are increasing.
For instance Black Ops has made $50 million on its best selling game. 3rd rate MMO publishers also make $50 million yearly.
Another critical thing to examine is competition. There is a lot of competition in the Console Market Place. There are very few Commercial PC publishers.
I'm unsure if this was meant as a detraction to my point or to confirm my point? The numbers speak volumes here. only 15 billion of the 50 billion sales you posted was from pc game software sales. which leaves 34 billion between consoles. I'm a little perturbed by the lack of sources for all these numbers but even the article admits:
The PC game category is a mere 8% of the $50 billion industry.
The 8% are standalone games sold digitally. This does not include a lot of PC gaming's revenue model. However this debate is a bit foolish. After scouring the internet for hours looking for sources one thing is consistent. None of the sources are consistent due to reporting methods and scope of reporting. Some reports only include major developers excluding a lot of PC developers since the PC is the easiest platform of entry for indy developers as it does not have any licensing fees attached to it. Some reports confuddle hardware and software sales. Some reports are only for a region and only survey certain companies. In the end there is no way you can justifiably say Consoles or PCs sell more without investing weeks of full research into the income of every developer on the planet to form a firm basis of Console Verse PC. That's not something anyone on here is willing to do and not something the commenter on the video was willing to do.
Here is another source that does not really answer anything. $65 Billion Industry
I think from an analyst perspective, a lot of people here are wrong on the PC gaming industry and the video commenter for several important reasons. A. Licensing. B. Cost of Distribution. C. Lower competition. You should not judge the failures of EA as concluding there is rampant pirating. That's just EA's excuse to every failure they push out in their inability to adapt to the market and offer real solutions like Steam. You have to really consider that in 2012 digital downloads were $10 billion and most of the PC.
When you look strictly at what companies produce, and what companies earn. The profit favors PC developers. The problem a lot of Big publishers have is that no PC gamer will buy the same game with year + 1 written on it as they do in the console industry. As a comparison here are the top 25 highest grossing game companies of 2012. Tencent is a PC publisher in China. Activision/Blizzard, EA, and Microsoft are a mix of Console PC. Sony and Nintendo are console exclusive. DeNA and GREE are mobile publishers. Nexon and Gungho are PC publishers.
There is nothing "insulting" or "ignorant" whatsoever about this video. It's actually quite brilliant.
I could say otherwise about this post though...
The insulting part is this; "You guys need to get with the 21st century and learn how to play a game with game-controller, and since you're never gonna give up your keyboard and mouse you're probably a cramped little dweeb sitting in a dark room..." Oh no, not insulting or ignorant in the least, it's just fact that everyone who plays on a PC is too retarded to plug in an xbox or ps3 controller...
The ignorant part is where he obviously doesn't know that people have been playing on their PC in the living-room for many years now. Or the fact that he seems to think that the industry at large doesn't like the PC platform.
Really don't get the hate going on because from a business standpoint he is correct. PC is a very small amount of the video game market watch any analyst of the market worth anything and he will say the same thing.
....and lots of conjecture that is wrong, wrong, wrong. But very nicely written, and I say that without sarcasm.
"EA posted earnings for the first quarter of its 2014 fiscal year....and they show that the company's net revenue from PC gaming actually rose by 8% compared to the same quarter last year. Not only that, but at $298 million, EA's PC revenue was higher than its Xbox 360 revenue ($256 million) or its PlayStation 3 revenue ($238 million)."
I forget how EA divides up its quarters but it has only released 2 console games this year. Which accounts to why the quarter had a rise in pc revenue since SWTOR is a given.
Nvidia spokesman Ben Berraondo - "Pretty much every game advert and show demo this last year has been running on PC hardware - and gamers are catching on."
"...desktop PC sales are consistently dropping, PC gaming hardware is continuing to rise."
“GTX desktop GPU sales are growing. GTX 660 and above the market is growing massively. Which we never thought it would. We thought it would stay flat, from a couple years ago, but we are selling more and more GTX cards."
"...more and more people are moving over to have a gaming PC - we’re not seeing that market shrink at all. What’s happening is gamers from console are moving across and buying a gaming PC and that market’s remaining flat or growing."
I really loved this part, because its so fucking true "...we may well see devs primarily marketing their games using PC footage at E3 2014 - no matter what Microsoft and Sony can come up with in 2013." Dont want to believe it? Next time youre at a show ask what platform their using to demo their console game...bet you its not a console.
Ok but whether or not they use trailers using pc's doesn't in-turn make the pc market anymore viable then it was. All these links talk about growth but all pretty much show that this is a niche market and not seen as a viable commercial option. You also commonly refer to corporate shills what exactly is Nvidia?
For the last couple of years, the revenue from console video game sales has stagnated at around $23 billion per year. PC game sales, on the other hand, have grown from $13 billion to $18 billion over the past two years. DFC, a market research firm, expects console game sales to stagnate or shrink slightly, while the PC sector will continue to grow."
I even linked to the research companys website just so you know they arent being biased. And btw that report still seems to be accurate two years after it was written in late 2011.
Except as noted before I was discounting farmville and social media games as well as casuals. This article pretty much boasts farmville as the singular reason why pc is competitive. False Equivalency.
Some nice fun facts. Whos data supports and is supported by the other links I provided, all from different sources I would like to add. Meaning Im not taking four different articles written from the same source material just so I can support the facts.
Except that there is alot of gain percentages which still don't negate this statement in bold:
In 2012, PC popularity was 7.49% of consoles. This is consistant with the 8% mentioned earlier yes it seems to be growing by those numbers but right now its 8% of what I consider the market (excluding casual games and facebook type games)
Chris Roberts developer of Star Citizen starting @ 14:30 -
"I think if you make games specifically for the PC there's a huge PC audience that will support you." Not only support you, but give you ten of millions of dollars with no guarantee of return to make a PC only game.
"The problem has been people ignoring the PC. I mean thats why I wanted to build Star Citizen in the first place. I was sick of playing bad ports of a console game thats based on seven year old tech on my top of the line PC."
It is a great video to watch.
I find it weird that you seem to believe in a grand conspiracy against pc games. If it was profitable to make games for pcs companies would be on it and not "ignoring" the pc.
All the reasons above is why you are wrong, wrong, wrong Abang, along with all the others who thinks this guys is right. And thats why Mr. Pach is deserving of the scorn, ridicule and insults hes getting.
Show less growth numbers and more acutal numbers ie if pc is 8% of the market and next year becomes 10% that still makes console owners and phone owners to be the primary market and for pc to be a niche market.
Im sure I read in this thread where someone said this guys (Pachs) word is followed by industry decision makers? Maybe thats why PC gaming revenues has been catching up to console revenues for the past four plus years...
LOL!
There is no proof in any link you sent me that this is true. Growth does not equal profit.
Hell, did anyone else notice he avoided the whole next gen consoles are comparable to current mid range PC's *implied* question....LOL. I bet he was afraid to answer it, least he angers the console giants.
Like I said in my other post, the fact the he is blatantly showing off product placements for consoles only shows hes biased as fuck. As a matter of fact Im suprised hes allowed to pull that corparate **** out of his mouth to talk as long as he was.
Ok so it has grown but is still even in the best terms only 10% of the video game market? This proof was severely lack luster I expected better for someone who was trying not to jab me sarcastically. The last argument was about whether pc could compete with consoles and even if we take the most liberal estimates consoles would be 33% compared to 10%. You also ignored many other issues:
A) PC ports are usually ports of the console version
Companies that used to belong to pc market eschewing pc for consoles.
Most pc games sales are DIGITAL. You've a hard time buying a physical copy of a PC game.
That civilization 5 figure you give is ludicrous. It sold 1.5 million PHYSICAL copies, so you "generously" give it 1.5 million digital copies. This for a steamworks game that requires registration on steam, uses steam for its multiplayer and has been a steady top 20 seller on steam for well over 2 years. Yeah right.
Also how do you define "casual" games. This is a highly flexible terminology. Is minecraft a "casual" game for instance?
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north America almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North America vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and Facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
About $21~$24 Billion is in Console Sales. About $16 Billion is in PC Game Software Sales. From those PC Sales, About $3 billion is in MMO revenue models, and $4 billion in digital downloads.
The $24 Billion figure for Console Sales most likely includes hardware and software since most sites like NDP show monthly figures under a billion for hardware or software. Realistically during 2011, you are looking at $11 billion in sales of console software. 2011 was also a peak on console software sales, so its been on the decline since where as PC game sales are increasing.
For instance Black Ops has made $50 million on its best selling game. 3rd rate MMO publishers also make $50 million yearly.
Another critical thing to examine is competition. There is a lot of competition in the Console Market Place. There are very few Commercial PC publishers.
I'm unsure if this was meant as a detraction to my point or to confirm my point? The numbers speak volumes here. only 15 billion of the 50 billion sales you posted was from pc game software sales. which leaves 34 billion between consoles. I'm a little perturbed by the lack of sources for all these numbers but even the article admits:
The PC game category is a mere 8% of the $50 billion industry.
The 8% are standalone games sold digitally. This does not include a lot of PC gaming's revenue model. However this debate is a bit foolish. After scouring the internet for hours looking for sources one thing is consistent. None of the sources are consistent due to reporting methods and scope of reporting. Some reports only include major developers excluding a lot of PC developers since the PC is the easiest platform of entry for indy developers as it does not have any licensing fees attached to it. Some reports confuddle hardware and software sales. Some reports are only for a region and only survey certain companies. In the end there is no way you can justifiably say Consoles or PCs sell more without investing weeks of full research into the income of every developer on the planet to form a firm basis of Console Verse PC. That's not something anyone on here is willing to do and not something the commenter on the video was willing to do.
I can say justifiable as I said before that console games are selling much more than their counterparts. There is only one game exclusive to pc so far that is even in a console best seller level and that is WoW and most of the best sellers for consoles made that in months instead of years and as mentioned before WoW gives incntives for one person to buy multiple copies.
Here is another source that does not really answer anything. $65 Billion Industry
There is very telling information on that list but its a snippet and could use more quotes. One big thing I noticed is the insane amount that Facebook games are receiving.
I think from an analyst perspective, a lot of people here are wrong on the PC gaming industry and the video commenter for several important reasons. A. Licensing. B. Cost of Distribution. C. Lower competition. You should not judge the failures of EA as concluding there is rampant pirating. That's just EA's excuse to every failure they push out in their inability to adapt to the market and offer real solutions like Steam. You have to really consider that in 2012 digital downloads were $10 billion and most of the PC.
Except as noted before Epic Games, As well as certain franchises out right saying there will be no pc port due to piracy and the concerns of multiple hardware configurations. I don't even remember bringing up EA but the poster who tried to "debunk" me brought them up as saying they have a higher pc revenue than console which is not suprising since they only released 2 games in 2013 that were directly for consoles while they have a game like SWTOR which is guarenteed money.
When you look strictly at what companies produce, and what companies earn. The profit favors PC developers. The problem a lot of Big publishers have is that no PC gamer will buy the same game with year + 1 written on it as they do in the console industry. As a comparison here are the top 25 highest grossing game companies of 2012. Tencent is a PC publisher in China. Activision/Blizzard, EA, and Microsoft are a mix of Console PC. Sony and Nintendo are console exclusive. DeNA and GREE are mobile publishers. Nexon and Gungho are PC publishers.
The last generalized statement is simply untrue because it ignores several important factors. As an example if we take an indie perspective I'll use my own game as an example made on a scrap budget. The new ps4 are being loaned for free and xbox is its own dev kit. Lets set some parameters:
I will be using game Dev Tycoon's self study that showed 214 sales vs 3104 illegal torrent downloads for a day.
I will initially table pc sales, than establish a table of potential loss due to illegal downloads and institute a buyback rate and show the difference.
I'm too tired to look up the official royalty rates so I am going to table it in a similar fashion to show cuts though this graph will only denote from the basic first day sale from game dev tycoon.
Due to the ease in which you can pirate games on the pc. I will add the same percentages of buyback to those numbers. In this case the buyback is meant to illustrate those people who can't pirate it so they decide to buy it.
pc
Sales first day $4,280
buy back rate - $ Lost due to piracy - $ Added to profit
0% - $60280 -
5% - $ 57280 -
10% - $ 54,240 -
25% - $ 45,200
50% - $ 30,140
75% - $15,060
ps3
sales first day $4,280
Royalty Rate - Profit Left
5% - $4066
10% - 3852
15% - 3638
25% - 3210
50% - 2140
75% - 1070
Initial
5%
10%
15%
25%
40%
$4280
+$3120
+6220
+9320
+15520
+24840
Final
$7400
$10,500
$13600
19,800
$29,120
Now that makes it seem pretty equal
So initially that doesn't look bad until you start looking into the numbers. nexAge and greenheart games both report around a 90% piracy rate. IE there is 90% more copies downloaded than bought on the first day. In the case of Game Dev Tycoon the game was only 7.99 or 8.99. So lets be nice and use 25% buy back rate if we look at ps3 we can safely infer that 75% piracy is not possible due to how many people have the knowledge to do it or know where to find information on it. So in the case of pc I would need to program something like the arkham asylum game fix which gimps gameplay if you have an illegal copy. Which lets just say is another 500 (I'm being really generous with that estimate) I'm A) reaching a much wider potential audience with the ps3 assuming that my game needs a gaming pc to run correctly and I unsubstantially reduce the risk of piracy. Even if we go with some of the lower estimates that works in the ps3 side and why most companies are forsaking the pc market.
I'll play whatever platform has my favorite MMO on it. Who cares if it's a PC, Xbox, PS4 or a calculator? Not me.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Most pc games sales are DIGITAL. You've a hard time buying a physical copy of a PC game.
That civilization 5 figure you give is ludicrous. It sold 1.5 million PHYSICAL copies, so you "generously" give it 1.5 million digital copies. This for a steamworks game that requires registration on steam, uses steam for its multiplayer and has been a steady top 20 seller on steam for well over 2 years. Yeah right.
Also how do you define "casual" games. This is a highly flexible terminology. Is minecraft a "casual" game for instance?
Uhhh no... I gave it 1.5 mil alone from steam and a further 1.5 mil from sites like gamefly etc. No Minecraft is not a casual game in my opinion when I think of casual games I'm thinking along the lines of hidden object games I also consider facebook games to be casual games but I separate them so I can stop reading how pc is overtaking console when its clear that it is due to games like farmville. the problem that I feel with minecraft though is simple it is now multi-platform while reading an article it noted that it has 12 million sales between pc and mac and 6 million on xbox 360 and 5 million sales on mobile. If we go on growth alone though minecraft had 6 months on the xbox version and as of june 24th of this year the xbox version is at half not to mention there was previous iterations of minecraft to get it up to that number. Either way good for him but kinda paltry compared to console numbers.
I don't really see 1.5 as being too bad of a number especially when its bolstered by gamefly and similar services 1.5 also accounting tastes for games with that. So if it makes you happier we can add the 3 mil as steam only as I really don't expect them to get much sales anywhere else. Again it would take the guesswork out if dd companies acutally posted their sales figures for each game. I find it odd that they don't so I'm under the impression its not as high as they would like it to be. If you have the sales figures feel free to post em either way while its great for them its still looking really paltry next to console figures.
What "most companies are forsaking the pc market"?
Only publisher I can think of that is console only is NINTENDO
You mentioned earlier gow2 as an example of console games not going pc "due to piracy". I'm sorry but this is their marketing speak. The reason gow2 isn't on pc is because its not the sort of game pc gamers buy.
Consoles have a younger demographic that plays at a distance on a tv, and games to reflect that like over the shoulder shooters and spectacle fighters.
Likewise you have your more "nerdy" games on pc that you would never see on console as the pc and console demographics are so different - crusader kings 2, eu4, civ5, euro truck simulator etc..
Aban. Yeah I think your figures are wrong. If a steamworks game sold a million physical copies I would expect steam sales to be around FIVE million.
as for what is casual gaming. Well it depends who defines it. Say there was a survey sponsored by the big publishers on gaming, I could see anything not AAA being chucked in the casual category, even big selling real games e.g. minecraft, terraria, Torchlight 2, kerbal. I could also see them doing simmilar stuff with f2p games like lol, poe, wot & dota2.
Unless that "casual" category specific states "facebook clickers and their ilk" I don't trust it.
Comments
Seems less of an issue with the platform and more a preference of what types of games you play. It is way easier to zone out on an mmo and be able to watch tv while "playing". But on my console not so much. Even if I had another TV in the room, I wouldn't really be able to watch it. The games I play on my console tend to require much more hand eye coordination and typically have less downtime.
Feel free to post a source. Because every single one I have found is backed by social games like Farmville, not Core games that we as "gamers" tend to consider games.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
Do you understand why the mouse and keyboard is going to be superior for a very very long time if not until new hardware is developed?
First is the fact that people don't actually look at how advanced the mouse and keyboard actually is. Because its been around since we were born people take it for granted. But the fact of the matter is that its ingenious and there is a reason why its been used for decades and hasn't needed to be changed or altered like a controller.
Next it the actual physical limitation of using a controller for aiming. Unless a game is set up with a massive amount of auto aim or aim assistance you will never have the ability to change your camera angle as fast as you can with a mouse. The area that you can physically move a thumbstick is limited, were as for a mouse has potentially unlimited space to move about.
What that extra physical movement space allows is for much much more precise movement because you are not physically limited in the speed at which your character can turn.
Yes you can argue that you just have to turn up your sensitivity, but you are still stuck with the same problem. You can not physically control a thumpstick as well as a mouse. The physical space is just not there.
Then you go into the realm of using your thumb, vrs your whole entire arm. Your thumb is one of the least flexible, and mobile fingers you have. Think about how long it took you as a child to be able to write. Now think about how long it took you to be able to throw a ball. Your arm is better at doing fine motor skills than your thumb. Which again creates another limitation to a controller.
Also those that say a controller is better for fighting games. That is only true because most fighting games are not designed to be used by a keyboard. Even using a fighting stick its still faster to press a button than it is to move a joystick. For those of you that think otherwise I would like to point you at the Hit Box. An arcade box that uses buttons for movement and direction instead of a joystick. Watch the video of the guy doing I think it was 30+ Zangief ultras perfectly on the ground with out jumping. The motion of the ultra is 2x full circles in SF4 which makes it almost impossible to do it with out jumping.
Also, this is just another guy trying to put a ding on PC gaming. He is a marketer for Console gaming. You don't think he has an invested interest in bashing PC gaming and Hyping Console gaming?
Besides being extremely defensive, this is also wrong. His firm helped bring in 2 of the investors who helped Acti-Blizzard buy back their shares from Vivendi.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north america almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North america vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
not to mention there is another video where he states quite openly that he is a bigger fan of pc gaming then console mostly because he can play it at work. He also states that he loves mmorpgs but stopped playing them due to the time investment involved.
Is it the controller that makes the console market or is it the games they tend to make? What if consoles had decided to go with mouse and keyboard from the beginning, something tells me it would still crush the market because it makes the kinds of games that brain dead people want and because it's a dirt cheap platform compared to PC gaming. There is more than enough to go around for both platforms (the market is why they both exist in the first place) and people like you and the guy in the video are needlessly beating a dead horse.
The PC market is more than big enough to justify its continued existence, thank you very much.
Um... yeah... hes a bit of a tool for that remark. I mean yes, there are people with the whole 'PC master race' deal but they aren't all like that. Personally I'm on the side of PC (and I own consoles btw) for the fact it is much more powerful and a lot more customizable. In the long run a PC will outshine any console in terms of its graphical abilities. Mouse and keyboard ARE superior choices for games, though obviously not all games. Strategy games will shine with them (until perhaps touch screen becomes better) while a console will find itself being stronger with say action games.
Seems almost pointed and bitter. Is that jealousy? haha I really don't know if it is or why you would feel such. In the end the PC WILL be superior to consoles in graphics and adaptability. Still doesn't mean consoles are bad. In the end, that flexability and variant is also a flaw as it leaves more room for troubles and issues as systems all function a bit differently rather then being all the same like consoles. Look at Android Vs iPhone. The Androids are for the most part vastly superior to their apple counterparts (though the latest phones have caught up to be far less behind), however you are more likely to see issues on androids due to
1.) More freedom = more room for users to do things they aren't suppose to which can cause issues.
2.) More hardware means theres more components software developers need to consider when creating an application that can run on a wide varienty of devices all made with different parts.
Rather then make PC an enemy, why not consider it as a possibility that they might 'merge'. PCs are getting the ability pushed to 'stream' to the TV providing entertainment on the couch, while consoles are adapting to provide more features much like a PC. Rather then 'hate' on PC, while not really look at it and see that in a way the two are becoming more interlinked, to the point we might have a PC that can act like a console, providing us the needs of a PC while we want it, while using say a 'steam box' or other hardware it can give us the console feeling we also desire.
2011 Video Game Sales $50 Billion
About $21~$24 Billion is in Console Sales. About $16 Billion is in PC Game Software Sales. From those PC Sales, About $3 billion is in MMO revenue models, and $4 billion in digital downloads.
The $24 Billion figure for Console Sales most likely includes hardware and software since most sites like NDP show monthly figures under a billion for hardware or software. Realistically during 2011, you are looking at $11 billion in sales of console software. 2011 was also a peak on console software sales, so its been on the decline since where as PC game sales are increasing.
For instance Black Ops has made $50 million on its best selling game. 3rd rate MMO publishers also make $50 million yearly.
Another critical thing to examine is competition. There is a lot of competition in the Console Market Place. There are very few Commercial PC publishers.
You realize that the console market began before the mouse was invented right? You know, way back in the day before such control was needed.
No one here has questioned that. Pc's do certainly fill a niche. There is zero doubt about that. Attempting to argue that the pc is some kind of monolithic leader though is foolish as there is zero evidence to support it. If you have some, or even a logical argument based on observation please present it. I too would like more support for the pc.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
I'm unsure if this was meant as a detraction to my point or to confirm my point? The numbers speak volumes here. only 15 billion of the 50 billion sales you posted was from pc game software sales. which leaves 34 billion between consoles. I'm a little perturbed by the lack of sources for all these numbers but even the article admits:
The PC game category is a mere 8% of the $50 billion industry.
From the very link you provided:
Valve’s strength in PC gaming may, however, be its limiting factor. The PC game category is a mere 8% of the $50 billion industry.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
I'm looking for evidence not hyperbole. let me show you the ropes here. Epic who made alot of their money on pc games and licensing their engine was more concerned with following console cycles for Unreal Engine 4.0 than pc Their priorities are listed here:
"[Unreal Engine 4.0] will exclusively target the next console generation, Microsoft's successor for the Xbox 360, Sony's successor for the Playstation 3 - and if Nintendo ships a machine with similar hardware specs, then that also. PCs will follow after that." - Epic Games Tim Sweeny
Crytek is doing the same in their engine:
"Frankly we are linking ourselves to the PS4," he continues by saying that it’s a "driving beacon" for his company, despite the fact that Sony hasn’t given the company full details. "That’s probably the most important information that our company is missing."
"While PC hardware is in contestant flux, the consoles give developers a fixed window of constraints. And because Crytek games use high-tone graphics engines, they must start designing for the future."- Crytek’s Cevat Yerli
Epic Games Cliff Bleszinski decided not to release gears of war 2 on the pc citing piracy as a reason in this interview:
" Do you see the Xbox 360 as the main platform as opposed to the PC? During the whole Unreal time it was very much PC focused.
The PC right now is a fair amount different to what it was back in the day, with all the badly integrated video chips. Here's the problem right now; the person who is savvy enough to want to have a good PC to upgrade their video card, is a person who is savvy enough to know bit torrent to know all the elements so they can pirate software. Therefore, high-end videogames are suffering very much on the PC.
So piracy was a main point for you...
Right now, it makes sense for us to focus on Xbox 360 for a number of reasons. Not least PCs with multiple configurations and piracy.
But when the dust has settled, is there any possibility of Gears 2 on PC?
No.
Definitely not?
No. "
Facts.
EA financials show growing PC game revenue
"EA posted earnings for the first quarter of its 2014 fiscal year....and they show that the company's net revenue from PC gaming actually rose by 8% compared to the same quarter last year. Not only that, but at $298 million, EA's PC revenue was higher than its Xbox 360 revenue ($256 million) or its PlayStation 3 revenue ($238 million)."
Next-gen consoles will struggle to beat PC, say industry insiders
Nvidia spokesman Ben Berraondo - "Pretty much every game advert and show demo this last year has been running on PC hardware - and gamers are catching on."
"...desktop PC sales are consistently dropping, PC gaming hardware is continuing to rise."
“GTX desktop GPU sales are growing. GTX 660 and above the market is growing massively. Which we never thought it would. We thought it would stay flat, from a couple years ago, but we are selling more and more GTX cards."
"...more and more people are moving over to have a gaming PC - we’re not seeing that market shrink at all. What’s happening is gamers from console are moving across and buying a gaming PC and that market’s remaining flat or growing."
I really loved this part, because its so fucking true "...we may well see devs primarily marketing their games using PC footage at E3 2014 - no matter what Microsoft and Sony can come up with in 2013." Dont want to believe it? Next time youre at a show ask what platform their using to demo their console game...bet you its not a console.
PC gaming isn’t dead, and will soon overtake consoles
I even linked to the research companys website just so you know they arent being biased. And btw that report still seems to be accurate two years after it was written in late 2011.
2005-2012 PC vs Console gaming population growth rates
Some nice fun facts. Whos data supports and is supported by the other links I provided, all from different sources I would like to add. Meaning Im not taking four different articles written from the same source material just so I can support the facts.
Chris Roberts developer of Star Citizen starting @ 14:30 -
"I think if you make games specifically for the PC there's a huge PC audience that will support you." Not only support you, but give you ten of millions of dollars with no guarantee of return to make a PC only game.
"The problem has been people ignoring the PC. I mean thats why I wanted to build Star Citizen in the first place. I was sick of playing bad ports of a console game thats based on seven year old tech on my top of the line PC."
It is a great video to watch.
All the reasons above is why you are wrong, wrong, wrong Abang, along with all the others who thinks this guys is right. And thats why Mr. Pach is deserving of the scorn, ridicule and insults hes getting.
Im sure I read in this thread where someone said this guys (Pachs) word is followed by industry decision makers? Maybe thats why PC gaming revenues has been catching up to console revenues for the past four plus years...
LOL!
Hell, did anyone else notice he avoided the whole next gen consoles are comparable to current mid range PC's *implied* question....LOL. I bet he was afraid to answer it, least he angers the console giants.
Like I said in my other post, the fact the he is blatantly showing off product placements for consoles only shows hes biased as fuck. As a matter of fact Im suprised hes allowed to pull that corparate **** out of his mouth to talk as long as he was.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
The 8% are standalone games sold digitally. This does not include a lot of PC gaming's revenue model. However this debate is a bit foolish. After scouring the internet for hours looking for sources one thing is consistent. None of the sources are consistent due to reporting methods and scope of reporting. Some reports only include major developers excluding a lot of PC developers since the PC is the easiest platform of entry for indy developers as it does not have any licensing fees attached to it. Some reports confuddle hardware and software sales. Some reports are only for a region and only survey certain companies. In the end there is no way you can justifiably say Consoles or PCs sell more without investing weeks of full research into the income of every developer on the planet to form a firm basis of Console Verse PC. That's not something anyone on here is willing to do and not something the commenter on the video was willing to do.
Here is another source that does not really answer anything. $65 Billion Industry
I think from an analyst perspective, a lot of people here are wrong on the PC gaming industry and the video commenter for several important reasons. A. Licensing. B. Cost of Distribution. C. Lower competition. You should not judge the failures of EA as concluding there is rampant pirating. That's just EA's excuse to every failure they push out in their inability to adapt to the market and offer real solutions like Steam. You have to really consider that in 2012 digital downloads were $10 billion and most of the PC.
When you look strictly at what companies produce, and what companies earn. The profit favors PC developers. The problem a lot of Big publishers have is that no PC gamer will buy the same game with year + 1 written on it as they do in the console industry. As a comparison here are the top 25 highest grossing game companies of 2012. Tencent is a PC publisher in China. Activision/Blizzard, EA, and Microsoft are a mix of Console PC. Sony and Nintendo are console exclusive. DeNA and GREE are mobile publishers. Nexon and Gungho are PC publishers.
The insulting part is this; "You guys need to get with the 21st century and learn how to play a game with game-controller, and since you're never gonna give up your keyboard and mouse you're probably a cramped little dweeb sitting in a dark room..." Oh no, not insulting or ignorant in the least, it's just fact that everyone who plays on a PC is too retarded to plug in an xbox or ps3 controller...
The ignorant part is where he obviously doesn't know that people have been playing on their PC in the living-room for many years now. Or the fact that he seems to think that the industry at large doesn't like the PC platform.
Ok so it has grown but is still even in the best terms only 10% of the video game market? This proof was severely lack luster I expected better for someone who was trying not to jab me sarcastically. The last argument was about whether pc could compete with consoles and even if we take the most liberal estimates consoles would be 33% compared to 10%. You also ignored many other issues:
A) PC ports are usually ports of the console version
C) PC ports being delayed or not coming at all.
No big deal, i own a PS3 and my PC, i'll also buy the PS4 as soon as it hits.
That 8% you are talking about is PHYSICAL COPIES.
Most pc games sales are DIGITAL. You've a hard time buying a physical copy of a PC game.
That civilization 5 figure you give is ludicrous. It sold 1.5 million PHYSICAL copies, so you "generously" give it 1.5 million digital copies. This for a steamworks game that requires registration on steam, uses steam for its multiplayer and has been a steady top 20 seller on steam for well over 2 years. Yeah right.
Also how do you define "casual" games. This is a highly flexible terminology. Is minecraft a "casual" game for instance?
The last generalized statement is simply untrue because it ignores several important factors. As an example if we take an indie perspective I'll use my own game as an example made on a scrap budget. The new ps4 are being loaned for free and xbox is its own dev kit. Lets set some parameters:
pc
Sales first day $4,280
buy back rate - $ Lost due to piracy - $ Added to profit
ps3
sales first day $4,280
Royalty Rate - Profit Left
Now that makes it seem pretty equal
So initially that doesn't look bad until you start looking into the numbers. nexAge and greenheart games both report around a 90% piracy rate. IE there is 90% more copies downloaded than bought on the first day. In the case of Game Dev Tycoon the game was only 7.99 or 8.99. So lets be nice and use 25% buy back rate if we look at ps3 we can safely infer that 75% piracy is not possible due to how many people have the knowledge to do it or know where to find information on it. So in the case of pc I would need to program something like the arkham asylum game fix which gimps gameplay if you have an illegal copy. Which lets just say is another 500 (I'm being really generous with that estimate) I'm A) reaching a much wider potential audience with the ps3 assuming that my game needs a gaming pc to run correctly and I unsubstantially reduce the risk of piracy. Even if we go with some of the lower estimates that works in the ps3 side and why most companies are forsaking the pc market.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Uhhh no... I gave it 1.5 mil alone from steam and a further 1.5 mil from sites like gamefly etc. No Minecraft is not a casual game in my opinion when I think of casual games I'm thinking along the lines of hidden object games I also consider facebook games to be casual games but I separate them so I can stop reading how pc is overtaking console when its clear that it is due to games like farmville. the problem that I feel with minecraft though is simple it is now multi-platform while reading an article it noted that it has 12 million sales between pc and mac and 6 million on xbox 360 and 5 million sales on mobile. If we go on growth alone though minecraft had 6 months on the xbox version and as of june 24th of this year the xbox version is at half not to mention there was previous iterations of minecraft to get it up to that number. Either way good for him but kinda paltry compared to console numbers.
I don't really see 1.5 as being too bad of a number especially when its bolstered by gamefly and similar services 1.5 also accounting tastes for games with that. So if it makes you happier we can add the 3 mil as steam only as I really don't expect them to get much sales anywhere else. Again it would take the guesswork out if dd companies acutally posted their sales figures for each game. I find it odd that they don't so I'm under the impression its not as high as they would like it to be. If you have the sales figures feel free to post em either way while its great for them its still looking really paltry next to console figures.
Only publisher I can think of that is console only is NINTENDO
You mentioned earlier gow2 as an example of console games not going pc "due to piracy". I'm sorry but this is their marketing speak. The reason gow2 isn't on pc is because its not the sort of game pc gamers buy.
Consoles have a younger demographic that plays at a distance on a tv, and games to reflect that like over the shoulder shooters and spectacle fighters.
Likewise you have your more "nerdy" games on pc that you would never see on console as the pc and console demographics are so different - crusader kings 2, eu4, civ5, euro truck simulator etc..
Yeah I think your figures are wrong. If a steamworks game sold a million physical copies I would expect steam sales to be around FIVE million.
as for what is casual gaming. Well it depends who defines it. Say there was a survey sponsored by the big publishers on gaming, I could see anything not AAA being chucked in the casual category, even big selling real games e.g. minecraft, terraria, Torchlight 2, kerbal. I could also see them doing simmilar stuff with f2p games like lol, poe, wot & dota2.
Unless that "casual" category specific states "facebook clickers and their ilk" I don't trust it.