Well, as I see it they've delivered pretty close to what was promised initially and they're improving nicely on that as time goes by. Yes, it's true they had to add hearts to the game because people were so conditioned by the quest hub system from other games that they would wander around GW2 and not get involved in dynamic events because they "didnt' have the quest for that". At least they've chosen to not add any new hearts, even to new zones, now that people have had time to remove the archaic conditioning from other MMOs. But with DEs you get exactly what was promised... a world you can help change in little ways as you go through. Any DE you complete (or fail) remains in that completed or failed state until something else happens to push the state further in either direction. If centaurs take over a town it stays taken over until the players clear it. It doesn't reset to a non-taken over state on it's own. This is what was promised and delivered.
Living Story is a whole different thing. It's their means of introducing new content to the game in two week cycles instead of the old wait many months for an expansion model. Initially it was a bit too temporary for many, but seeing that they've changed their paradigm to adding more permanence to things. Look at this new tower that should be opening up to access today. Indications are that the tower at least will remain a permanent part of the zone, forever changing the zone's appearance and content. OK, it's true that not every two week release is liked by everyone, but with new content coming into the game, at no charge by the way, every two weeks there's plenty of new things to do for everyone as time progresses. Like they say, you're always within a week of new content about to be released or having been released. That's a nice touch and a pleasant way to keep the world alive. They're also doing this predominantly in lower level zones which, when combined with the down-scaling system, keep all zones in the game relevant instead of dead and forgotten wastelands.
Basically, aside from Eve Online this is the only game (personal experience) where there's never been that "nothing left to do" moment that hits you. There will always be something you haven't done or tried yet just around the corner. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't, but if you don't all you have to do is wait a couple weeks for something else new.
GW2 definitely "feels" more alive than other games but personally I feel like the leveling experience is like a solo campaign.
I don't feel like other people want to party up and quest/explore together
Ask and they will! I have been playing mmorpgs for years, and not one that I know of them other players magically appear next to you and quest. GW2 is no different, you have to ask others to play if you want that involvement. In fact, GW2 offers more than most mmorpgs in that you can join a battle, and still receive credit unlike the default game where once the mob is tagged it is lost.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Personally I don't mind that people complain about this game, WoW, Rift, Eve, checkers,..etc... You can't please them all and options of games to play is a good thing. The only thing that sort of gets under my skin are the people that constantly remind us they don't like the game in just about every positive (or negative) thread. I would love to read a legitimate, non-sarcastic reason as to why certain people have been posting negatively in the same game forums for over a year just to bash the game. I'm genuinely curious as to why.
Because its lie's again they said the living world updates would change the world that a player coming to the game a year after launch would find a completely different experience which is absolute bull crap all the changes have been trivial stuff or silly mini games that have no effect on the so cold living world I would rather wait every 6-12 months for a expansion than all the crap they pump out every two weeks.
Because its lie's again they said the living world updates would change the world that a player coming to the game a year after launch would find a completely different experience which is absolute bull crap all the changes have been trivial stuff or silly mini games that have no effect on the so cold living world I would rather wait every 6-12 months for a expansion than all the crap they pump out every two weeks.
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So you'd rather wait longer to get less and be charged for it?
Because its lie's again they said the living world updates would change the world that a player coming to the game a year after launch would find a completely different experience which is absolute bull crap all the changes have been trivial stuff or silly mini games that have no effect on the so cold living world I would rather wait every 6-12 months for a expansion than all the crap they pump out every two weeks.
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But you have to admit compared to other games the changes are enormous. ie Rift, once I play an area it is done and buried, there is no reason to go back to that area. In GW2 the living world and its story incorporates different areas making the entire world feel more involved. The bi-monthly changes Anet puts into the game are more polished and detailed (imho) than most game developers put in and entire expansion, and this is done consistently.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I can't agree more. People constantly complain they want something new, and a company actually tries something new and they just complain about it. Love it or hate it you should at least respect a company for steering away from the norm. The trinity, static quests, are all pretty standard these days.
People just like to hate, I try to be as unbiased and understanding as possible when it comes to judging games. A lot of passion and hard work goes into these things and it's so disrespectful the way some people attempt to summarize a game with "it sucks, just a lame cash grab, another boring themepark."
Anyone who has actually played GW2 can see it's very different from your standard MMO. I refuse to believe anyone who says otherwise has actually played it or didn't make up their mind before trying it.
That is very mature of you to say that you refuse to believe people don't share your opinion... I HAVE actually played GW2 and I didn't like it. At all. Not saying its a shit game, just wasn't for me. I absolutely dispise the combat. It felt like people running around dpsing their hearts out at full speed with little to no strategy. I'm not talking about dungeons per se, but in these "living events". People would roam from event to event just slaying shit sometimes, not even knowing the story behind what was going on, as they came late. I saw groups of over 50 people running from event to event. And the events were always the same over and over again. Once the event occurred once, it didn't feel "living" any more. It felt like running a small dungeon over and over.
I was really enjoying FF14, but they have seemed to take the event system from gw2 and make it even worse. I don't like this direction as it feels fake. It feels like they're trying, but it's not working. You may like thus direction, but I really don't. Unlike you however, I don't refuse to believe that others disagree with my opinion. I just find a game I like better and get on with my life.
According to most of the pro-GW2 poster's logic in game design, WoW phasing would qualify it to be a 'living world'.
Absolutely not, and I play both games. WoW's phasing only goes so far, and once the story line is done, the world becomes 100% static.
Which means WoW had the 'living world' MMO in the market quicker than GW2 did.
A "living world" permanently changes, and is not just about going through a story line once and then being back to a static world. In WoW, you always know exactly how a specific spot of the world is like depending on your progression through the local quest line(s), and once done, nothing will ever change again. In GW2, you never know in what state you're going to find any part of the world, which also changes even when you're not there or even not online at all. That's the big difference, making it apples and oranges.
I don't think some posters thought this through....
I don't think you thought this through...
That makes sense... Cause a month ago, I played gw2 again after a loooong break to see if it had changed enough to make me want to play. I started a new character cause I didn't want to just jump in.. It's been awhile. It was,world wise, EXACTLY what it was when I left. Same "living" events, same world. This world doesn't change as much as some of you want to believe it does. Things may change for an event, then it's back to normal.
Perhaps the evangelical nature of some sections of the gw2 fan base leads to this "hate"
Personally I don't hate the game, I just found it very boring. 1 theres no reason behind WvW, no lore, its just because "magic reason go fight" 2 dungeons just don't work, its a war of attrition 3 one you hit about level 20 or so you've got all your abilities, there's no new goodies to look forwards too. 4 I thought getting rid of quest hubs would get rid of playing the map, but if anything in gw2 you play the map more, perhaps not as much as something like swtor, but certainly more so than wow. And it was trying to fix this fault with wow. 5 for a game called GUILD wars there's sod all you can do as a guild. You can't even form a guild raid for WvW or big events like the dragons. This game would be.edit greatly from something like the open warbands of warhammer or the open platoons of planetside 2. 6 I was just questing on my hunter and actually fell asleep.
Originally posted by goldtoof Perhaps the evangelical nature of some sections of the gw2 fan base leads to this "hate"
Personally I don't hate the game, I just found it very boring. 1 theres no reason behind WvW, no lore, its just because "magic reason go fight" 2 dungeons just don't work, its a war of attrition 3 one you hit about level 20 or so you've got all your abilities, there's no new goodies to look forwards too. 4 I thought getting rid of quest hubs would get rid of playing the map, but if anything in gw2 you play the map more, perhaps not as much as something like swtor, but certainly more so than wow. And it was trying to fix this fault with wow. 5 for a game called GUILD wars there's sod all you can do as a guild. You can't even form a guild raid for WvW or big events like the dragons. This game would be.edit greatly from something like the open warbands of warhammer or the open platoons of planetside 2. 6 I was just questing on my hunter and actually fell asleep.
Hunter? Last time I saw a "hunter" is was in WoW. You sure you have the right game or actually played GW2? Seems like a pretty basic thing to not even know the professions.
I don't know exactly what happened, but for whatever reasons, GW2 just seemed a whole lot better on paper than it ended up being in reality. I followed GW2 for a long time before release and I was really pumped. It seemed to check off many of those features that I thought I wanted in an MMORPG. Then when it was released I dove in and discovered that it just really was not that much fun. I still log on every so often to see if I feel any differently, but so far I just don't. I know it's hard to quantify "fun", and it can mean different things to different people, but it's certainly not there for me. For ME anyway, a few of the issues are...
1. The combat is just not very satisfying, it feels very floaty and I don't feel like I am making contact with anything. It's not visceral at all. Also there are too few weapons skills and you quickly unlock them all.
2. The personal story and voice acting are weak. This results in me really not caring about the characters or the world.
3. The quests/events are very repetitive. Also it seems like they cycle too quickly resulting in seeing the same events running all of the time. It does not feel dynamic at all. I don't understand how people can complain about WoW quests when there are quests like "collect 15 eggs and put them in a basket" in GW2. If events don't feel dynamic, then it does not matter what tech is driving them.
4. As fun as all of the underwater stuff seemed before release, it's just not. I actually find myself avoiding the underwater events.
The unfortunate part is that I REALLY WANT TO LOVE GW2, but I don't. I believe in the B2P model and I wish them success. Maybe they will make enough changes or I will change somehow and some day I will log in and find the game really fun. It just isn;t happening for me any time soon it seems.
I don't know exactly what happened, but for whatever reasons, GW2 just seemed a whole lot better on paper than it ended up being in reality. I followed GW2 for a long time before release and I was really pumped. It seemed to check off many of those features that I thought I wanted in an MMORPG. Then when it was released I dove in and discovered that it just really was not that much fun. I still log on every so often to see if I feel any differently, but so far I just don't. I know it's hard to quantify "fun", and it can mean different things to different people, but it's certainly not there for me. For ME anyway, a few of the issues are...
1. The combat is just not very satisfying, it feels very floaty and I don't feel like I am making contact with anything. It's not visceral at all. Also there are too few weapons skills and you quickly unlock them all.
2. The personal story and voice acting are weak. This results in me really not caring about the characters or the world.
3. The quests/events are very repetitive. Also it seems like they cycle too quickly resulting in seeing the same events running all of the time. It does not feel dynamic at all. I don't understand how people can complain about WoW quests when there are quests like "collect 15 eggs and put them in a basket" in GW2. If events don't feel dynamic, then it does not matter what tech is driving them.
4. As fun as all of the underwater stuff seemed before release, it's just not. I actually find myself avoiding the underwater events.
The unfortunate part is that I REALLY WANT TO LOVE GW2, but I don't. I believe in the B2P model and I wish them success. Maybe they will make enough changes or I will change somehow and some day I will log in and find the game really fun. It just isn;t happening for me any time soon it seems.
1. I disagree on this one... it's the best combat I've personally experienced in a MMO. I suppose it's simply a different strokes thing though, neither of us are right or wrong, we just like different. I have a hard time playing other games now and not being able to do something as simple as dodge-roll...
2. Could be better, true. Although... my son did shed a couple tears regarding Tybalt.
3. One major difference between the WoW and GW2 thing is that in GW2 you can do them again (excepting hearts, of course). Also you can come across them in different states along the chain as well, so there's always a chance at seeing something you hadn't seen before. In WoW once you complete the quests the zone is effectively dead to you. Not so in GW2.
4. Again, personal preference. I love my mesmer in underwater combat. It (to me) really flows best when swapping from ranged to melee and back rather than rely on and sticking with one or the other.
Originally posted by goldtoof Oh I got hunter and ranger mixed up. Kinda shows how bored I was with it yeah.
As for your point 3, well not like wow no. But EXACTLY like warhammer and rift.
Exactly like Warhammer and Rift? How so? Do Rifts branch out into chains that push themselves forwards or can be pushed back by players? Will Rifts maintain their state if no players interact with them instead of reset themselves? Are there over 1500 rifts active in the game at any point in time? Have rifts replaced the archaic quest-bang system?
Never played Warhammer, so looking forwards to the comparisons. Although, to be fair, the devs did flatly state that they did use Warhammer as inspiration when making WvW. Personally I do more WvW than anything and still, well over a year later, have a blast doing so. I'm looking forwards to the new Edge of the Mists map and the new mechanics that will introduce as well.
I had a long post but people get all huffy if i try and prove every point,so i will just say NO,GW2 is not a well designed MMORPG it is similar to GW1 but does it differently to fool people into thinking it is a true MMORPG.
It really should have been obvious from day 1,all the content ideas that GW1 was not putting into the game are ones that cost money and time,ANEt was looking for a simpler design and one that runs on pennies a day.Even the bull they were feeding about show casing their art was just a cover up for not putting in the work to transform that art into 3d animations/cut scenes,they were simply cutting corners everywhere.
If you also notice since release MOST of their content has been instance content,so they tell you one thing then resort right back to GW1 type design.Really everyone should understand that they are not going to give you the same triple a game that is costly to run as others because they have no sub fee to offset ongoing costs,that is why they went for triggered content,to keep the content out of the game until needed,runs for a lot less that way.
It is still ALL of it ,triggered content,exactly like any other quest is,Anet just found a gimmick to keep less content visible and tell everyone it is an event.Thee events are just ongoing quests and have been done already for years,the ONLY difference is ANET keeps most of it hidden to run the game cheaper.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If you also notice since release MOST of their content has been instance content,...
Wow, credibility destroyed right there. Sure, the new dungeons they've added have been instances (like practically every other MMO), but to leave out entire new zones, events, etc?
Yeah if players don't fight the rifts in rift, they chain into full blown invasions
Pqs in warhammer, they have multiple stages just like "dynamic" events in gw2. Only difference is they are marked on the map (along with current number of players doing it)
WvW well to quote arenanet "if you liked daoc you'll love WvW". I did and I didn't.
I think many players want a virtual ecosystem, not a fake attempt at making one.
A true virtual ecosystem would have *finite* resources, that's the one obvious problem with every single major MMORPG, you can mine and cut trees and kill animals for leather and they will keep respawning infinitely.
Overfarming of any resource (be it plant, ore, or even goblins, giants etc..) should send ripples through the entire ecosystem - that's the problem, a virtual ecosystem would be VERY hard to implement in a MMORPG without crazy overhead costs.
Every item build could always be deconstructed into raw resources to be remade into something else - this would keep it to where you wouldn't have to farm all the finite resources as if there is too much of item X in the supply, you could break it down and built item Y that is now desirable more than item X.
But that is what I'd like to see - a naturally balanced system that responds to players actions - you think killing all the goblins might be a good thing, but you didn't know that goblins also kept the undead in check, and without them now you are engulfed in undead, and they are 5x worse. Also without the goblins - the knowledge and magics they used is almost impossible to find, so entire branches of goblin magic and crafting would not be able to be progressed anymore for example - real impact to players.
The AI would have to be pretty phenomenal, but the game with finite resources would revolutionize MMORPG genre entirely.
Imagine where players actions made a real drastic impact on the world - I know lots of games advertise this, but NONE have even come close to delivering on this.
We can achieve great things in games - you can develop a strong character and get great gear, but why can't we experience great loss as well?
All player actions should send ripple effects on the game world, upset the balance too much, you should have a real risk of losing it all.
Great post...+1
To add to it, the more complex systems they add the greater chance for bugs and players exploiting said bugs.
I think many players want a virtual ecosystem, not a fake attempt at making one.
A true virtual ecosystem would have *finite* resources, that's the one obvious problem with every single major MMORPG, you can mine and cut trees and kill animals for leather and they will keep respawning infinitely.
Overfarming of any resource (be it plant, ore, or even goblins, giants etc..) should send ripples through the entire ecosystem - that's the problem, a virtual ecosystem would be VERY hard to implement in a MMORPG without crazy overhead costs.
Every item build could always be deconstructed into raw resources to be remade into something else - this would keep it to where you wouldn't have to farm all the finite resources as if there is too much of item X in the supply, you could break it down and built item Y that is now desirable more than item X.
But that is what I'd like to see - a naturally balanced system that responds to players actions - you think killing all the goblins might be a good thing, but you didn't know that goblins also kept the undead in check, and without them now you are engulfed in undead, and they are 5x worse. Also without the goblins - the knowledge and magics they used is almost impossible to find, so entire branches of goblin magic and crafting would not be able to be progressed anymore for example - real impact to players.
The AI would have to be pretty phenomenal, but the game with finite resources would revolutionize MMORPG genre entirely.
Imagine where players actions made a real drastic impact on the world - I know lots of games advertise this, but NONE have even come close to delivering on this.
We can achieve great things in games - you can develop a strong character and get great gear, but why can't we experience great loss as well?
All player actions should send ripple effects on the game world, upset the balance too much, you should have a real risk of losing it all.
Great post...+1
To add to it, the more complex systems they add the greater chance for bugs and players exploiting said bugs.
Sounds great, but impossible in practice. Take the above goblin/undead example.
Goonswarm joins the game. They kill all the goblins wiping out that line of magic, etc. They kill all the undead. They kill everything next. Any line essential to the game that can be eliminated is. They gather all the resources they can and sit on them. They deplete everything finite. Why? It's fun.
I'm sorry, but most of GW2's "living story" happens to be instanced so it completely defeats the point of being "living." In fact I've seen very little change in GW2's world. Nothing really radical has happened since the start of the game. Some players are fooled by the living stories which are just basically events with achievements that you grind for skins or back items.
I really haven't seen much progression take place in GW2 either. The story feels like it was written by a 9th grader writing for a fanfiction site which makes it even harder to enjoy anything lore related with the game (the wiki does a better job than the actual game with the lore). Players roleplaying make the story more believable than the game does itself.
I'm sorry, but most of GW2's "living story" happens to be instanced so it completely defeats the point of being "living." In fact I've seen very little change in GW2's world. Nothing really radical has happened since the start of the game. Some players are fooled by the living stories which are just basically events with achievements that you grind for skins or back items.
I really haven't seen much progression take place in GW2 either. The story feels like it was written by a 9th grader writing for a fanfiction site which makes it even harder to enjoy anything lore related with the game (the wiki does a better job than the actual game with the lore). Players roleplaying make the story more believable than the game does itself.
Where have you been lately? Southsun was added and has changed dramatically as part of living story. Other zones are having permanent changes as well. This latest one will permanently change Kessex Hills. In addition they've revamped things like WvW progression, added ascended gear and weapons, revamped crafting, etc.
Yes, they've added instanced things as well. So? What game doesn't when they release an expansion of some sort. We have new dungeon paths now. We have Fractals. Super Adventure Box made it's return. All instances, all fun for many.
The only reason you've seen little change in GW2's world is because you're not looking.
I'm sorry, but most of GW2's "living story" happens to be instanced so it completely defeats the point of being "living." In fact I've seen very little change in GW2's world. Nothing really radical has happened since the start of the game. Some players are fooled by the living stories which are just basically events with achievements that you grind for skins or back items.
I really haven't seen much progression take place in GW2 either. The story feels like it was written by a 9th grader writing for a fanfiction site which makes it even harder to enjoy anything lore related with the game (the wiki does a better job than the actual game with the lore). Players roleplaying make the story more believable than the game does itself.
Where have you been lately? Southsun was added and has changed dramatically as part of living story. Other zones are having permanent changes as well. This latest one will permanently change Kessex Hills. In addition they've revamped things like WvW progression, added ascended gear and weapons, revamped crafting, etc.
Yes, they've added instanced things as well. So? What game doesn't when they release an expansion of some sort. We have new dungeon paths now. We have Fractals. Super Adventure Box made it's return. All instances, all fun for many.
The only reason you've seen little change in GW2's world is because you're not looking.
Southsun: The place people only go to for events and when it's included in the living story. The rest of the time: An empty barren wasteland. Also my point about instances was the fact that ArenaNet still insists on calling some of the instances "living stories" which they are not. Yes there have been a couple changes. Like I said, they haven't been very noticeable or large.
If I have to actively look for changes because they are so little than that sort of doesn't imply a changing, breathing world that is alive. It implies a standard themepark game with very little that sets it apart from other MMOs. The "living story" is basically the "Rifts" of GW2. Fun and interesting at first, before you realize they are repetitive and don't add much in the long run.
I've not posted on this site in quite awhile, but I have to ask: What do you people want from an MMO? I've played the latest, "next big thing" which was FFXIV, and I can say without hesitating that I got way more out of GW2, a B2P game that provides free updates. I can't look at P2P themepark MMO's and think that I'm getting a good deal out of them when GW2 exists. You're welcome to call me a fanboy or whatever else, but I don't see how anyone could possibly complain about the amount of content you get from GW2 for $50.
Originally posted by xeniar You fail to see that This is just quest hubs in disguise. it makes the world apear living but it does not feel living at all.
This. There wasn't a single aspect of GW2 that felt "alive" to me. It was the same thing dressed ever so slightly different.
I also like a game that has a lot of dungeons so I get a different scenery for quests. GW2 had so few at launch. It was just run around this area and kill W of these X of these, collect Y of these, touch Z of these.
So yes, I would love an MMO that feels alive. GW2 wasn't even in the galaxy of that concept.
Comments
Well, as I see it they've delivered pretty close to what was promised initially and they're improving nicely on that as time goes by. Yes, it's true they had to add hearts to the game because people were so conditioned by the quest hub system from other games that they would wander around GW2 and not get involved in dynamic events because they "didnt' have the quest for that". At least they've chosen to not add any new hearts, even to new zones, now that people have had time to remove the archaic conditioning from other MMOs. But with DEs you get exactly what was promised... a world you can help change in little ways as you go through. Any DE you complete (or fail) remains in that completed or failed state until something else happens to push the state further in either direction. If centaurs take over a town it stays taken over until the players clear it. It doesn't reset to a non-taken over state on it's own. This is what was promised and delivered.
Living Story is a whole different thing. It's their means of introducing new content to the game in two week cycles instead of the old wait many months for an expansion model. Initially it was a bit too temporary for many, but seeing that they've changed their paradigm to adding more permanence to things. Look at this new tower that should be opening up to access today. Indications are that the tower at least will remain a permanent part of the zone, forever changing the zone's appearance and content. OK, it's true that not every two week release is liked by everyone, but with new content coming into the game, at no charge by the way, every two weeks there's plenty of new things to do for everyone as time progresses. Like they say, you're always within a week of new content about to be released or having been released. That's a nice touch and a pleasant way to keep the world alive. They're also doing this predominantly in lower level zones which, when combined with the down-scaling system, keep all zones in the game relevant instead of dead and forgotten wastelands.
Basically, aside from Eve Online this is the only game (personal experience) where there's never been that "nothing left to do" moment that hits you. There will always be something you haven't done or tried yet just around the corner. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't, but if you don't all you have to do is wait a couple weeks for something else new.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Ask and they will! I have been playing mmorpgs for years, and not one that I know of them other players magically appear next to you and quest. GW2 is no different, you have to ask others to play if you want that involvement. In fact, GW2 offers more than most mmorpgs in that you can join a battle, and still receive credit unlike the default game where once the mob is tagged it is lost.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Because its lie's again they said the living world updates would change the world that a player coming to the game a year after launch would find a completely different experience which is absolute bull crap all the changes have been trivial stuff or silly mini games that have no effect on the so cold living world I would rather wait every 6-12 months for a expansion than all the crap they pump out every two weeks.
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So you'd rather wait longer to get less and be charged for it?
Interesting.
Oderint, dum metuant.
But you have to admit compared to other games the changes are enormous. ie Rift, once I play an area it is done and buried, there is no reason to go back to that area. In GW2 the living world and its story incorporates different areas making the entire world feel more involved. The bi-monthly changes Anet puts into the game are more polished and detailed (imho) than most game developers put in and entire expansion, and this is done consistently.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
And a city of heroes / tsw approach with down leveling and episodic content.
WOAH INNOVATION!
That is very mature of you to say that you refuse to believe people don't share your opinion... I HAVE actually played GW2 and I didn't like it. At all. Not saying its a shit game, just wasn't for me. I absolutely dispise the combat. It felt like people running around dpsing their hearts out at full speed with little to no strategy. I'm not talking about dungeons per se, but in these "living events". People would roam from event to event just slaying shit sometimes, not even knowing the story behind what was going on, as they came late. I saw groups of over 50 people running from event to event. And the events were always the same over and over again. Once the event occurred once, it didn't feel "living" any more. It felt like running a small dungeon over and over.
I was really enjoying FF14, but they have seemed to take the event system from gw2 and make it even worse. I don't like this direction as it feels fake. It feels like they're trying, but it's not working. You may like thus direction, but I really don't. Unlike you however, I don't refuse to believe that others disagree with my opinion. I just find a game I like better and get on with my life.
That makes sense... Cause a month ago, I played gw2 again after a loooong break to see if it had changed enough to make me want to play. I started a new character cause I didn't want to just jump in.. It's been awhile. It was,world wise, EXACTLY what it was when I left. Same "living" events, same world. This world doesn't change as much as some of you want to believe it does. Things may change for an event, then it's back to normal.
Personally I don't hate the game, I just found it very boring.
1 theres no reason behind WvW, no lore, its just because "magic reason go fight"
2 dungeons just don't work, its a war of attrition
3 one you hit about level 20 or so you've got all your abilities, there's no new goodies to look forwards too.
4 I thought getting rid of quest hubs would get rid of playing the map, but if anything in gw2 you play the map more, perhaps not as much as something like swtor, but certainly more so than wow. And it was trying to fix this fault with wow.
5 for a game called GUILD wars there's sod all you can do as a guild. You can't even form a guild raid for WvW or big events like the dragons. This game would be.edit greatly from something like the open warbands of warhammer or the open platoons of planetside 2.
6 I was just questing on my hunter and actually fell asleep.
Hunter? Last time I saw a "hunter" is was in WoW. You sure you have the right game or actually played GW2? Seems like a pretty basic thing to not even know the professions.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I don't know exactly what happened, but for whatever reasons, GW2 just seemed a whole lot better on paper than it ended up being in reality. I followed GW2 for a long time before release and I was really pumped. It seemed to check off many of those features that I thought I wanted in an MMORPG. Then when it was released I dove in and discovered that it just really was not that much fun. I still log on every so often to see if I feel any differently, but so far I just don't. I know it's hard to quantify "fun", and it can mean different things to different people, but it's certainly not there for me. For ME anyway, a few of the issues are...
1. The combat is just not very satisfying, it feels very floaty and I don't feel like I am making contact with anything. It's not visceral at all. Also there are too few weapons skills and you quickly unlock them all.
2. The personal story and voice acting are weak. This results in me really not caring about the characters or the world.
3. The quests/events are very repetitive. Also it seems like they cycle too quickly resulting in seeing the same events running all of the time. It does not feel dynamic at all. I don't understand how people can complain about WoW quests when there are quests like "collect 15 eggs and put them in a basket" in GW2. If events don't feel dynamic, then it does not matter what tech is driving them.
4. As fun as all of the underwater stuff seemed before release, it's just not. I actually find myself avoiding the underwater events.
The unfortunate part is that I REALLY WANT TO LOVE GW2, but I don't. I believe in the B2P model and I wish them success. Maybe they will make enough changes or I will change somehow and some day I will log in and find the game really fun. It just isn;t happening for me any time soon it seems.
1. I disagree on this one... it's the best combat I've personally experienced in a MMO. I suppose it's simply a different strokes thing though, neither of us are right or wrong, we just like different. I have a hard time playing other games now and not being able to do something as simple as dodge-roll...
2. Could be better, true. Although... my son did shed a couple tears regarding Tybalt.
3. One major difference between the WoW and GW2 thing is that in GW2 you can do them again (excepting hearts, of course). Also you can come across them in different states along the chain as well, so there's always a chance at seeing something you hadn't seen before. In WoW once you complete the quests the zone is effectively dead to you. Not so in GW2.
4. Again, personal preference. I love my mesmer in underwater combat. It (to me) really flows best when swapping from ranged to melee and back rather than rely on and sticking with one or the other.
Oderint, dum metuant.
As for your point 3, well not like wow no. But EXACTLY like warhammer and rift.
Exactly like Warhammer and Rift? How so? Do Rifts branch out into chains that push themselves forwards or can be pushed back by players? Will Rifts maintain their state if no players interact with them instead of reset themselves? Are there over 1500 rifts active in the game at any point in time? Have rifts replaced the archaic quest-bang system?
Never played Warhammer, so looking forwards to the comparisons. Although, to be fair, the devs did flatly state that they did use Warhammer as inspiration when making WvW. Personally I do more WvW than anything and still, well over a year later, have a blast doing so. I'm looking forwards to the new Edge of the Mists map and the new mechanics that will introduce as well.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I had a long post but people get all huffy if i try and prove every point,so i will just say NO,GW2 is not a well designed MMORPG it is similar to GW1 but does it differently to fool people into thinking it is a true MMORPG.
It really should have been obvious from day 1,all the content ideas that GW1 was not putting into the game are ones that cost money and time,ANEt was looking for a simpler design and one that runs on pennies a day.Even the bull they were feeding about show casing their art was just a cover up for not putting in the work to transform that art into 3d animations/cut scenes,they were simply cutting corners everywhere.
If you also notice since release MOST of their content has been instance content,so they tell you one thing then resort right back to GW1 type design.Really everyone should understand that they are not going to give you the same triple a game that is costly to run as others because they have no sub fee to offset ongoing costs,that is why they went for triggered content,to keep the content out of the game until needed,runs for a lot less that way.
It is still ALL of it ,triggered content,exactly like any other quest is,Anet just found a gimmick to keep less content visible and tell everyone it is an event.Thee events are just ongoing quests and have been done already for years,the ONLY difference is ANET keeps most of it hidden to run the game cheaper.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Wow, credibility destroyed right there. Sure, the new dungeons they've added have been instances (like practically every other MMO), but to leave out entire new zones, events, etc?
You really should play a game before you bash it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Pqs in warhammer, they have multiple stages just like "dynamic" events in gw2. Only difference is they are marked on the map (along with current number of players doing it)
WvW well to quote arenanet "if you liked daoc you'll love WvW". I did and I didn't.
Great post...+1
To add to it, the more complex systems they add the greater chance for bugs and players exploiting said bugs.
Sounds great, but impossible in practice. Take the above goblin/undead example.
Goonswarm joins the game. They kill all the goblins wiping out that line of magic, etc. They kill all the undead. They kill everything next. Any line essential to the game that can be eliminated is. They gather all the resources they can and sit on them. They deplete everything finite. Why? It's fun.
When nothing's left, they quit.
Game over.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I'm sorry, but most of GW2's "living story" happens to be instanced so it completely defeats the point of being "living." In fact I've seen very little change in GW2's world. Nothing really radical has happened since the start of the game. Some players are fooled by the living stories which are just basically events with achievements that you grind for skins or back items.
I really haven't seen much progression take place in GW2 either. The story feels like it was written by a 9th grader writing for a fanfiction site which makes it even harder to enjoy anything lore related with the game (the wiki does a better job than the actual game with the lore). Players roleplaying make the story more believable than the game does itself.
Smile
Where have you been lately? Southsun was added and has changed dramatically as part of living story. Other zones are having permanent changes as well. This latest one will permanently change Kessex Hills. In addition they've revamped things like WvW progression, added ascended gear and weapons, revamped crafting, etc.
Yes, they've added instanced things as well. So? What game doesn't when they release an expansion of some sort. We have new dungeon paths now. We have Fractals. Super Adventure Box made it's return. All instances, all fun for many.
The only reason you've seen little change in GW2's world is because you're not looking.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Southsun: The place people only go to for events and when it's included in the living story. The rest of the time: An empty barren wasteland. Also my point about instances was the fact that ArenaNet still insists on calling some of the instances "living stories" which they are not. Yes there have been a couple changes. Like I said, they haven't been very noticeable or large.
If I have to actively look for changes because they are so little than that sort of doesn't imply a changing, breathing world that is alive. It implies a standard themepark game with very little that sets it apart from other MMOs. The "living story" is basically the "Rifts" of GW2. Fun and interesting at first, before you realize they are repetitive and don't add much in the long run.
Smile
This. There wasn't a single aspect of GW2 that felt "alive" to me. It was the same thing dressed ever so slightly different.
I also like a game that has a lot of dungeons so I get a different scenery for quests. GW2 had so few at launch. It was just run around this area and kill W of these X of these, collect Y of these, touch Z of these.
So yes, I would love an MMO that feels alive. GW2 wasn't even in the galaxy of that concept.