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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
You do get cheaters of course but many times I think players will put down good play on an opponents part as cheating. This always reminds me of the standard replies when you are on voice chat:
If your teammate tells you he killed an enemy "Great job"
If you killed an enemy "Got the bastard"
If your teammate tells you he got killed "Hard luck mate"
If you got killed "Hacking bastards!"
When we get killed and you can't see quite how, the automatic assumption is a hack.
I think most of the time it's not really a denial that cheating exists, but rather a denial that it exists in any significant amount. I've played like 6k games of sc2 and I'm pretty sure I've lost at least 5x as many games to my internet going down than I have to cheaters... and I have good internet.
I think complaining about cheaters is the real form of denial.
Well, to be fair I don't believe I've ever seen anyone cheat on SC2. Blizzard definitely has that game on lockdown.
That doesn't stop people from constantly complaining about it. I think complaining about cheating is more of a problem than actual cheating...
I think most of the time it's not really a denial that cheating exists, but rather a denial that it exists in any significant amount. I've played like 6k games of sc2 and I'm pretty sure I've lost at least 5x as many games to my internet going down than I have to cheaters... and I have good internet.
I think complaining about cheaters is the real form of denial.
Well, to be fair I don't believe I've ever seen anyone cheat on SC2. Blizzard definitely has that game on lockdown.
That doesn't stop people from constantly complaining about it. I think complaining about cheating is more of a problem than actual cheating...
How is people complaining a problem at all? How is it a problem in any way?
It is absolutely ridiculous for someone to say such a thing. The actual action of Cheating ruins the game for everyone involved- arguably even for the cheater as well. Complaining doesn't do jack. In fact, nearly every video game in existence allows you to both ignore a user at your whim (often with a single click) and allows you to choose who you play with. If you are that offended and bothered by people complaining (which is absolutely ridiculous enough by itself) then simply place them on ignore.
I am always shocked by the absolutely insane things people say sometimes. It is always a surprise how one person can out do another and surprise even those who thought they heard it all.
"I think complaining about cheating is more of a problem than actually cheating."
I find it odd how much people detest those who (supposedly) falsely claim another is cheating just because they are (accused of being) poor sports.
No one likes a poor sport, but to detest them with such hatred, attack them, or blame innocent victims just to make sure you "get all of em"? Most rational humans simply ignore them, if not empathize with "poor sports". They don't try to destroy them.
Those who spew such vile do so to the point of making the victims of cheating, further victims of false accusations and beratement.
I guess it is typical of the internet though. Victim-Blaming reaches abomination-level records of evil on the internet. People are sickening sometimes. It sickens me as well, even when it's something as light as the whole "They just suck, cheaters don't exist." mindset of denial and victim-blaming. As if complaining that someone is cheating when they aren't is a horrendous crime in the first place.
It sickens me, because it's the exact same mindset between those who victim-blame dungeon slaves of Ariel Castro (as if it is their fault that they were enslaved and raped) and the mindset of people who try to belittle those who complain or are the first to state "You just suck." no matter what they're talking about. Such as Loktofeit, who felt the need to accuse me of sucking at FPS games simply because I state cheaters do exist. It doesn't even make sense in this context, since I never complained or even hinted at complaining, but the mindset still thrives even so.
I guess it's just part of the internet. People are more likely to jump to accuse people, regardless of what is actually happen, rather than to accept reality. So much so, that even those who are not even coming close to complaining (like myself in the OP) are accused of complaining or "sucking" at games. I am sorry, but only a fool would believe that the OP's skill in gaming has anything to do with the fact cheaters exist.
As much as it must pain some of you, if I suck or if I "pro play", cheaters exist in the same amount- and you are denying their existence all the same. And while I don't know to what extent you believe they exist or not, you are more than likely unaware at how many cheaters actually do exist. Proof enough, is all of the players who cheat and get away with kicking players who point it out, by convincing the group "No, I am not cheating. I am just good." I have actually known cheaters who lied and claimed to not cheat, and successfully banned other users who knew they were cheating. Fools rule the internet, and those who can make the fools dance have mucho power.
I find it odd how much people detest those who (supposedly) falsely claim another is cheating just because they are (accused of being) poor sports.
No one likes a poor sport, but to detest them with such hatred, attack them, or blame innocent victims just to make sure you "get all of em"? Most rational humans simply ignore them, if not empathize with "poor sports". They don't try to destroy them.
Those who spew such vile do so to the point of making the victims of cheating, further victims of false accusations and beratement.
I guess it is typical of the internet though. Victim-Blaming reaches abomination-level records of evil on the internet. People are sickening sometimes. It sickens me as well, even when it's something as light as the whole "They just suck, cheaters don't exist." mindset of denial and victim-blaming. As if complaining that someone is cheating when they aren't is a horrendous crime in the first place.
It sickens me, because it's the exact same mindset between those who victim-blame dungeon slaves of Ariel Castro (as if it is their fault that they were enslaved and raped) and the mindset of people who try to belittle those who complain or are the first to state "You just suck." no matter what they're talking about. Such as Loktofeit, who felt the need to accuse me of sucking at FPS games simply because I state cheaters do exist. It doesn't even make sense in this context, since I never complained or even hinted at complaining, but the mindset still thrives even so.
I guess it's just part of the internet. People are more likely to jump to accuse people, regardless of what is actually happen, rather than to accept reality. So much so, that even those who are not even coming close to complaining (like myself in the OP) are accused of complaining or "sucking" at games. I am sorry, but only a fool would believe that the OP's skill in gaming has anything to do with the fact cheaters exist.
As much as it must pain some of you, if I suck or if I "pro play", cheaters exist in the same amount- and you are denying their existence all the same. And while I don't know to what extent you believe they exist or not, you are more than likely unaware at how many cheaters actually do exist. Proof enough, is all of the players who cheat and get away with kicking players who point it out, by convincing the group "No, I am not cheating. I am just good." I have actually known cheaters who lied and claimed to not cheat, and successfully banned other users who knew they were cheating. Fools rule the internet, and those who can make the fools dance have mucho power.
I guess you like drama Anyway, calling other people's observation skills in question is not the same as spewing vile or destroying them. Also, no one was defending cheaters. I detest them. But my opinion is still that many just see cheaters where there are none. Just as many claim they see hacks about anywhere in MMO's while at the same time don't even understand the difference (or can determine) between latency and low fps. Or can't recognise rubberbanding (but call it speedhacks!!! )
Imo, 90% if not more of the players are very bad They just can't determine when there is cheating or just good play. And their pvp is just about killing whatever is in their crosshair. Only a relatively few are good teamplayers, understand mechanics, know the difference between glitches and cheating.
I hate coming into a conversation that's 6 pages long and there are so many posts that I'd like to comment on. All I have to say is this. If you don't think that hacks are very common (this depends a lot on what you consider common) then go to ANY hack website, seller, forum, whatever and just watch. Look at how HUGE the numbers are that pass through there in a day. You will be amazed and possibly ashamed.
I've read this on many sites but this particular one is from bustle.com
A study published in Journal of Personality and Social Psychology suggests that rather than being plagued by guilt, most cheaters actually feel pretty good about themselves, provided they don’t get caught. Getting away with cheating actually gives people a big positive emotional boost — a kind of “cheater’s high.”
Even when cheating brought no tangible rewards, the researchers found people who cheated on average reported feeling better than those who hadn’t, even though the same participants theorized that people who cheated would feel worse after cheating. In experiment after experiment, from solving math tests to puzzles, the cheaters always seemed to feel better afterwards.
Don’t lose hope for the human race just yet, though. Previous researchers have found that people do feel remorse about doing something unethical or immoral — if those actions hurt another person. But as this series of experiments shows, if someone benefits themselves by dishonest means without hurting anyone else, they wind up feeling pretty good.
edit: But, false accusations do occur. Just saying.
I hate coming into a conversation that's 6 pages long and there are so many posts that I'd like to comment on. All I have to say is this. If you don't think that hacks are very common (this depends a lot on what you consider common) then go to ANY hack website, seller, forum, whatever and just watch. Look at how HUGE the numbers are that pass through there in a day. You will be amazed and possibly ashamed.
I've read this on many sites but this particular one is from bustle.com
A study published in Journal of Personality and Social Psychology suggests that rather than being plagued by guilt, most cheaters actually feel pretty good about themselves, provided they don’t get caught. Getting away with cheating actually gives people a big positive emotional boost — a kind of “cheater’s high.”
Even when cheating brought no tangible rewards, the researchers found people who cheated on average reported feeling better than those who hadn’t, even though the same participants theorized that people who cheated would feel worse after cheating. In experiment after experiment, from solving math tests to puzzles, the cheaters always seemed to feel better afterwards.
Don’t lose hope for the human race just yet, though. Previous researchers have found that people do feel remorse about doing something unethical or immoral — if those actions hurt another person. But as this series of experiments shows, if someone benefits themselves by dishonest means without hurting anyone else, they wind up feeling pretty good.
It is strange how people think that cheating on society is not the same as cheating on a person. Society it seems cannot be hurt but people can.
I hate coming into a conversation that's 6 pages long and there are so many posts that I'd like to comment on. All I have to say is this. If you don't think that hacks are very common (this depends a lot on what you consider common) then go to ANY hack website, seller, forum, whatever and just watch. Look at how HUGE the numbers are that pass through there in a day. You will be amazed and possibly ashamed.
I've read this on many sites but this particular one is from bustle.com
A study published in Journal of Personality and Social Psychology suggests that rather than being plagued by guilt, most cheaters actually feel pretty good about themselves, provided they don’t get caught. Getting away with cheating actually gives people a big positive emotional boost — a kind of “cheater’s high.”
Even when cheating brought no tangible rewards, the researchers found people who cheated on average reported feeling better than those who hadn’t, even though the same participants theorized that people who cheated would feel worse after cheating. In experiment after experiment, from solving math tests to puzzles, the cheaters always seemed to feel better afterwards.
Don’t lose hope for the human race just yet, though. Previous researchers have found that people do feel remorse about doing something unethical or immoral — if those actions hurt another person. But as this series of experiments shows, if someone benefits themselves by dishonest means without hurting anyone else, they wind up feeling pretty good.
This is what is so funny about the people here. They think cheating is a rare occurrence, while accusations of cheating because "they're just so good" is extremely common.
In my experience, it's actually quite rare for someone to accuse another person of cheating. I know that most here who claim to have been called out as cheaters because they were "doing so good that game" are most likely exaggerating. In actuality, it probably has only happened a few times for them in the thousands of games they have played. It is not a common occurrence, even for people who "do so good". Yes, it is more common in games where the medium age is very low. No, it is still not a common occurrence. More than likely, someone will respond by insulting another or making some sort of excuse, than to directly claim "You are cheating! I know it!"
Cheating however, is significantly more common than most people give it credit for. Most cheating probably occurs without a word being said, complaint or compliment.
I wouldn't be surprised if studies (if they existed) showed that it is far more likely someone is cheating without any comment or claim, than someone complaining of a cheater who is not cheating at all.
I guess it's part of rose-colored glasses syndrome. People want to believe that cheaters are rare, but complaints are common. This justifies them if they attack "whiners" (as if it is ever justified to insult or berate someone for a minor complaint in a form of casual entertainment) or rationalize (denial of) the commonality of cheating.
After all, if people accepted that cheating is as common as it actually is, there would be a significant flaw in their form of entertainment. I don't think most people are ready to accept how unjust, unfair, and unbalanced this world really is. Whether that is in the form of the distribution of wealth in real life or the number of people who have used cheats or exploits in a petty video game- I don't think it really matters.
People truly do believe "Ignorance is Bliss", at least subconsciously.
I wonder if there are any psychological studies which show how it is easier for people to deny an unfair reality than to accept a hard truth. I would hope that humanity would rather know the truth, than to pretend to be ignorant of wrong-doing. Unfortunately, that is most likely a rare case.
When I play FPS games I pick a server to play on that has the lowest latency, good admin presence, thest 2 factors makes a server popular.
You might think that's bad that a lot of cheaters play there and your right they are so are the admins so they start banning the cheaters from their server, and voila you have a good clean server with just a odd cheater login in here and there that get banned as soon as he makes a mistake.
I think most of the time it's not really a denial that cheating exists, but rather a denial that it exists in any significant amount. I've played like 6k games of sc2 and I'm pretty sure I've lost at least 5x as many games to my internet going down than I have to cheaters... and I have good internet.
I think complaining about cheaters is the real form of denial.
Well, to be fair I don't believe I've ever seen anyone cheat on SC2. Blizzard definitely has that game on lockdown.
That doesn't stop people from constantly complaining about it. I think complaining about cheating is more of a problem than actual cheating...
How is people complaining a problem at all? How is it a problem in any way?
It is absolutely ridiculous for someone to say such a thing. The actual action of Cheating ruins the game for everyone involved- arguably even for the cheater as well. Complaining doesn't do jack. In fact, nearly every video game in existence allows you to both ignore a user at your whim (often with a single click) and allows you to choose who you play with. If you are that offended and bothered by people complaining (which is absolutely ridiculous enough by itself) then simply place them on ignore.
I am always shocked by the absolutely insane things people say sometimes. It is always a surprise how one person can out do another and surprise even those who thought they heard it all.
"I think complaining about cheating is more of a problem than actually cheating."
Wow. Just wow.
I don't think you understood the statement. It when people are complaining about cheating that ISN'T happening, which can be prolific in some games. It's very common not so much for newbs but for novice players that have been around a bit - ones that are getting into the mechanics and learning them - to call people cheaters based on their currently limited knowledge of the game. That is the group that seems most likely to rage, accuse or report players and it's detrimental to the gameplay experience. Not only does their own team have to waste time explaining what really is happening but they've now unfairly labelled another player or team, which could adversely affect what groups or matches they can get into.
Holophonist wasn't saying people should just let others cheat or that you shouldn't report actual cheaters. He was pointing out that the complaining about cheating can be more of a problem than actually cheating in some games.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I hate coming into a conversation that's 6 pages long and there are so many posts that I'd like to comment on. All I have to say is this. If you don't think that hacks are very common (this depends a lot on what you consider common) then go to ANY hack website, seller, forum, whatever and just watch. Look at how HUGE the numbers are that pass through there in a day. You will be amazed and possibly ashamed.
I've read this on many sites but this particular one is from bustle.com
A study published in Journal of Personality and Social Psychology suggests that rather than being plagued by guilt, most cheaters actually feel pretty good about themselves, provided they don’t get caught. Getting away with cheating actually gives people a big positive emotional boost — a kind of “cheater’s high.”
Even when cheating brought no tangible rewards, the researchers found people who cheated on average reported feeling better than those who hadn’t, even though the same participants theorized that people who cheated would feel worse after cheating. In experiment after experiment, from solving math tests to puzzles, the cheaters always seemed to feel better afterwards.
Don’t lose hope for the human race just yet, though. Previous researchers have found that people do feel remorse about doing something unethical or immoral — if those actions hurt another person. But as this series of experiments shows, if someone benefits themselves by dishonest means without hurting anyone else, they wind up feeling pretty good.
This is what is so funny about the people here. They think cheating is a rare occurrence, while accusations of cheating because "they're just so good" is extremely common.
In my experience, it's actually quite rare for someone to accuse another person of cheating. I know that most here who claim to have been called out as cheaters because they were "doing so good that game" are most likely exaggerating. In actuality, it probably has only happened a few times for them in the thousands of games they have played. It is not a common occurrence, even for people who "do so good". Yes, it is more common in games where the medium age is very low. No, it is still not a common occurrence. More than likely, someone will respond by insulting another or making some sort of excuse, than to directly claim "You are cheating! I know it!"
Cheating however, is significantly more common than most people give it credit for. Most cheating probably occurs without a word being said, complaint or compliment.
I wouldn't be surprised if studies (if they existed) showed that it is far more likely someone is cheating without any comment or claim, than someone complaining of a cheater who is not cheating at all.
I guess it's part of rose-colored glasses syndrome. People want to believe that cheaters are rare, but complaints are common. This justifies them if they attack "whiners" (as if it is ever justified to insult or berate someone for a minor complaint in a form of casual entertainment) or rationalize (denial of) the commonality of cheating.
After all, if people accepted that cheating is as common as it actually is, there would be a significant flaw in their form of entertainment. I don't think most people are ready to accept how unjust, unfair, and unbalanced this world really is. Whether that is in the form of the distribution of wealth in real life or the number of people who have used cheats or exploits in a petty video game- I don't think it really matters.
People truly do believe "Ignorance is Bliss", at least subconsciously.
I wonder if there are any psychological studies which show how it is easier for people to deny an unfair reality than to accept a hard truth. I would hope that humanity would rather know the truth, than to pretend to be ignorant of wrong-doing. Unfortunately, that is most likely a rare case.
I wonder if you have any statistical proof that cheating is as common as you seem to believe it is.
Based on my personal experience of MMORPGs only, it really hasn't been much of an issue. Back in the day radar hacking in DAOC got a bit out of hand until Mythic brought it under control, and I've occasionally run into lag hackers in my current DAOC shard, but nothing to the extreme that I felt I lost much to them.
Because at the end of the day, at least with MMORPG's, there's really nothing to win right? And the group that runs the freeshard I play on does a good job of catching and banning cheaters who are reported, with the greatest occurance being those who buff bot.
I think everyone would agree that every game has it's cheaters, we just manage to have fun regardless of their activities.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As long as there is the ability to program there will always be the factor of cheating. Banning by IP does not work nor does MAC. Anything in the hardware and software can be modified. The MAC/IP bans only prevent those who do not have programming knowledge. Which is more likely a higher percent average gamer or the consumer.
Some may not realize that there are actual programmers who break into games for fun, others possibly those with a background in game development, and old hard-core gamers who've been playing games for years now turn for cheats and profits or out of sheer boredrom. Some out of curiosity and others to 'win' that stake of $13,000 prize. Considering the state of the human mind and there are cheaters in the real-world it is no surprise that such behaviors have entered the gaming realm. Banks have cheated, Insurances have cheated,etc so cheating on games is not uncommon factor.
While it is understandable to attempt curve cheating due to its annoyances it is also to be aware that game companies do not go overboard and attempt to install bad softwares and violate user policy in the process in the case of a few bad apples. This includes specific spywares which is currently being used by casinos and a few MMO companies already. The possible legality waters around this if it is acceptable to install local files on the actual users property and maintain identifiable data on user accounts across a network. Other game companies have gone the EA way as to constantly request online services for a game to work. But in the end have these methods actually worked or have they backfired?
Denial is there as a defense mechanism, to deny is to avoid responsibility. Anyone who cheats or goes backdoor way will generally deny what they are doing naturally. In competitive gaming cheaters are hilarious, as they have no skills in the first place to even play the game. Instead their skills relies on short-cuts and blights. What is left is to enforce the rules when possible and kick the violators out.
Originally posted by muffins89 people cheat cause it's fun to win. (at least for a while). it all started with the konami code and game genie. blame Nintendo.
or started with phone phreakers...
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Paid for cheat programs typically have mac/ip spoofers built in. Not that they always work, but the ability for the average gamer who doesn't know programming to avoid perma bans is there.
I've game long enough in my choosen genre's to know when someone's just damn good, or cheating. It's not hard to spot if you have the time invested, have picked up the cheat yourself, or run Fraps. Generally I'll call the person out, let him/her know they've been discovered then leave the match/area and file a report immediately. Normally I back it up with fraps, and several supportive reports from my mates who also witnessed the action(s). In Fps's you don't find many good cheaters, most are overly obvious .. the "smart" ones only run radar/walls and rely on their twitch skills which is much harder to detect unless of course you use spectate and video to confirm. Cheating is much more prevalent in gaming than most people are willing to admit to, most of us game with people who run some sort of "cheat" and don't even know it. I've on numerous occassions remembered past glory in some title only to hear after the fact that a mate was running cheats and/or exploiting for an advantage and was actually suprised we weren't aware at the time. I speculate that the gaming community would be better served looking inward, at their own teams and guilds for cheating behavior and policing it there than the current method which is " I just died " .
I've been gaming since it began. I've been gaming since mmorpg's and multiplayer games started. I also use to run my own game servers. In all my years of gaming there have always been cheaters.
What I learned from hosting games that the ones that scream the loudest that they don't cheat are usually the guilty ones, most of the time that is. I also verified it by reviewing the logs.
There's no way to stop it so you as an honest gamer are left with some choices:
1. In FPS games it can be a fun challenge in trying to kill the cheater.
2. If you get too aggravated simply leave the game and join a different server. Where depending on the game might be more cheaters. Either keep trying different servers or just deal with it or quit playing for a while.
3. In mmorpg's avoid PvP if it's evident people are cheating or try your luck.
4. Take a break from FPS and mmorpg's and play co-op games
5. Understand you will never stop people from using various types of cheats in competitive play.
6. Don't even bother accusing as it will only raise your blood pressure not theirs.
NOTE: Also take into consideration that graphic and broadband lag can appear as someone cheating but takes an experienced eye to know the difference.
Cheating on a video game is both fun yet on the same time, ruin the experiance for others. I am a video game cheater, and I tend to cheat only in my single-player games, i turn my game into a sandbox... who cannot have fun in a game with unlimited ammo, no reload, on rocket launchers and granade launchers, being able to blow up any buildings that are destoryable or laugh to see your foes blow up into the sky and cartwheeling all the way down? It can be fun and it can be hairious, it's also a bypass on something you can't get around when your stuck on a place (noclip does some wonders when your stuck on a rock).
There is just one thing that I don't do is cheat on multi-player games, your not playing by yourself in a multi-player games, your playing with others, and your enemies will not have fun like you are having if you use cheats like your aimbot, your unlimited life, etc, it's no fun for others and people will tend to not like you for what you have done. it's best to not log in to an online game if your using cheats, a trainer, a cheat engine table, or whatever 3rd party programs you used to cheat on multi-player games. It's only ok on single-player games or co-op with your friends if they don't mind.
cheating is far more common than people think. it isn't always the hacked aim bot, nodeath, etc. sometimes it's a simple as animation canceling. exploiting a "bug" is cheating. saying that the designers left the "bug" in the game means that it's a "game mechanic" is an excuse for cheating.
i think it takes something that is lacking in most players today, a sense of ethics, to not cheat. doing what is right even when no one is looking over your shoulder, that's ethics. doing something "because you can", is just might makes right. and just being the strongest mofo on the block doesn't automatically mean your judgement is correct in a given situation. it just means you're stronger than anyone else.
a very small percentage of people actually get paid to play games. they are professional players. everyone else, is just you're average in your face taunter wannabe.
I can only wonder, "Why do people deny the obvious?"
What benefit is it to them, to deny that there are more cheaters than they will ever realize?
Why insult others who point out this fact, as if they're complaining? It is not a complaint to simply say "Cheaters exist. It's a fact." yet you will be insulted by those in denial. Why?
For as long as video games have been invented, there have been cheaters.
Whether it's a gold-duping bug or buying from chinese gold farmers, players in MMORPG's have hoarded gold with little effort.
Whether it's an aim bot, wall hack, or retexturing of models, FPS games have had cheaters.
Whether it's the ever notorious Punkbuster or a custom built anti-cheat software, it is always 1 step behind cheaters.
Whether or not you ban someone, is nothing more than a joke ever since the idea of a proxy was invented. Cheaters who can recover back to their former glory with a new account, because they are cheaters and it's easy.
You cannot deny this fact.
Hell, you want to talk about cheating? Developers don't even care anymore.
Granted it's not as big of a deal as cheating in a competitive game like a MMORPG, but the inclusion of Client-Side hit detection with little verification in Planetside 2, is quite laughable. Yes, they did it to help with performance. However, cheating is quite rampant. I say this not from my own experience, but by the simple fact that certain games designed certain ways will make cheating easier: such as client-side game logic.
(Exerpt) "One team was cleared of all misconduct, three were issued warnings for unsportsmanlike conduct, and Korean team Azubu Frost was fined 20% of its winnings."
i haven't met a lot of people who have said cheating does not exist.
There are tons of people who claim hax after they get owned.
I guess I really don't understand the point of cheating in a video game. It's not like you win a night in a hot-tub with Sofia Vergara if you get high score or anything. The point of playing a video gaming is to have fun playing the game...and if you are cheating you are simply not. Even leaving ethics aside.... and I was raised in a generation that valued ethics and fair play in sports and games...but lets leave that aside for a moment. I can't see how cheating would actualy make the game more fun over the long term. I can understand how someone might get some perverse joy from it in the short term...of finding a way to "beat the system" or maybe getting over thier frustration of getting mauled all the time...but I can't see how that could possibly last for more then 5 minutes. You've won a video game, big deal, hurrah for you that and $5 will get you an ice-cream.
For me I'm just an average player who wants to have fun playing the game. If I'm getting repeatedly crushed by the opposition.... yeah it's not fun. But my answer to that is that I almost don't care if the individual is cheating or simply too good for me.... I'll usualy just goto a server where the players are closer to my level of play. Just like I wouldn't play tennis regularly with a Proffesional Player that was going at it full tilt or play amatuer baseball against David Ortiz. No hard feelings about it..... it's just not enjoyable to play against people who are completely out of my league... I'd simply find a server that had people closer to my skill level (however crappy that was).
Personaly I haven't noticed much cheating but then again I wasn't really looking for it.
Comments
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
You do get cheaters of course but many times I think players will put down good play on an opponents part as cheating. This always reminds me of the standard replies when you are on voice chat:
If your teammate tells you he killed an enemy "Great job"
If you killed an enemy "Got the bastard"
If your teammate tells you he got killed "Hard luck mate"
If you got killed "Hacking bastards!"
When we get killed and you can't see quite how, the automatic assumption is a hack.
That doesn't stop people from constantly complaining about it. I think complaining about cheating is more of a problem than actual cheating...
How is people complaining a problem at all? How is it a problem in any way?
It is absolutely ridiculous for someone to say such a thing. The actual action of Cheating ruins the game for everyone involved- arguably even for the cheater as well. Complaining doesn't do jack. In fact, nearly every video game in existence allows you to both ignore a user at your whim (often with a single click) and allows you to choose who you play with. If you are that offended and bothered by people complaining (which is absolutely ridiculous enough by itself) then simply place them on ignore.
I am always shocked by the absolutely insane things people say sometimes. It is always a surprise how one person can out do another and surprise even those who thought they heard it all.
"I think complaining about cheating is more of a problem than actually cheating."
Wow. Just wow.
I find it odd how much people detest those who (supposedly) falsely claim another is cheating just because they are (accused of being) poor sports.
No one likes a poor sport, but to detest them with such hatred, attack them, or blame innocent victims just to make sure you "get all of em"? Most rational humans simply ignore them, if not empathize with "poor sports". They don't try to destroy them.
Those who spew such vile do so to the point of making the victims of cheating, further victims of false accusations and beratement.
I guess it is typical of the internet though. Victim-Blaming reaches abomination-level records of evil on the internet. People are sickening sometimes. It sickens me as well, even when it's something as light as the whole "They just suck, cheaters don't exist." mindset of denial and victim-blaming. As if complaining that someone is cheating when they aren't is a horrendous crime in the first place.
It sickens me, because it's the exact same mindset between those who victim-blame dungeon slaves of Ariel Castro (as if it is their fault that they were enslaved and raped) and the mindset of people who try to belittle those who complain or are the first to state "You just suck." no matter what they're talking about. Such as Loktofeit, who felt the need to accuse me of sucking at FPS games simply because I state cheaters do exist. It doesn't even make sense in this context, since I never complained or even hinted at complaining, but the mindset still thrives even so.
I guess it's just part of the internet. People are more likely to jump to accuse people, regardless of what is actually happen, rather than to accept reality. So much so, that even those who are not even coming close to complaining (like myself in the OP) are accused of complaining or "sucking" at games. I am sorry, but only a fool would believe that the OP's skill in gaming has anything to do with the fact cheaters exist.
As much as it must pain some of you, if I suck or if I "pro play", cheaters exist in the same amount- and you are denying their existence all the same. And while I don't know to what extent you believe they exist or not, you are more than likely unaware at how many cheaters actually do exist. Proof enough, is all of the players who cheat and get away with kicking players who point it out, by convincing the group "No, I am not cheating. I am just good." I have actually known cheaters who lied and claimed to not cheat, and successfully banned other users who knew they were cheating. Fools rule the internet, and those who can make the fools dance have mucho power.
I guess you like drama
Anyway, calling other people's observation skills in question is not the same as spewing vile or destroying them. Also, no one was defending cheaters. I detest them. But my opinion is still that many just see cheaters where there are none. Just as many claim they see hacks about anywhere in MMO's while at the same time don't even understand the difference (or can determine) between latency and low fps. Or can't recognise rubberbanding (but call it speedhacks!!! 
)
Imo, 90% if not more of the players are very bad
They just can't determine when there is cheating or just good play. And their pvp is just about killing whatever is in their crosshair. Only a relatively few are good teamplayers, understand mechanics, know the difference between glitches and cheating.
I hate coming into a conversation that's 6 pages long and there are so many posts that I'd like to comment on. All I have to say is this. If you don't think that hacks are very common (this depends a lot on what you consider common) then go to ANY hack website, seller, forum, whatever and just watch. Look at how HUGE the numbers are that pass through there in a day. You will be amazed and possibly ashamed.
I've read this on many sites but this particular one is from bustle.com
_________________________________________________________
A study published in Journal of Personality and Social Psychology suggests that rather than being plagued by guilt, most cheaters actually feel pretty good about themselves, provided they don’t get caught. Getting away with cheating actually gives people a big positive emotional boost — a kind of “cheater’s high.”
Turns out Bender was right all along: Being bad feels pretty good.
Even when cheating brought no tangible rewards, the researchers found people who cheated on average reported feeling better than those who hadn’t, even though the same participants theorized that people who cheated would feel worse after cheating. In experiment after experiment, from solving math tests to puzzles, the cheaters always seemed to feel better afterwards.
Don’t lose hope for the human race just yet, though. Previous researchers have found that people do feel remorse about doing something unethical or immoral — if those actions hurt another person. But as this series of experiments shows, if someone benefits themselves by dishonest means without hurting anyone else, they wind up feeling pretty good.
edit: But, false accusations do occur. Just saying.
It is strange how people think that cheating on society is not the same as cheating on a person. Society it seems cannot be hurt but people can.
This is what is so funny about the people here. They think cheating is a rare occurrence, while accusations of cheating because "they're just so good" is extremely common.
In my experience, it's actually quite rare for someone to accuse another person of cheating. I know that most here who claim to have been called out as cheaters because they were "doing so good that game" are most likely exaggerating. In actuality, it probably has only happened a few times for them in the thousands of games they have played. It is not a common occurrence, even for people who "do so good". Yes, it is more common in games where the medium age is very low. No, it is still not a common occurrence. More than likely, someone will respond by insulting another or making some sort of excuse, than to directly claim "You are cheating! I know it!"
Cheating however, is significantly more common than most people give it credit for. Most cheating probably occurs without a word being said, complaint or compliment.
I wouldn't be surprised if studies (if they existed) showed that it is far more likely someone is cheating without any comment or claim, than someone complaining of a cheater who is not cheating at all.
I guess it's part of rose-colored glasses syndrome. People want to believe that cheaters are rare, but complaints are common. This justifies them if they attack "whiners" (as if it is ever justified to insult or berate someone for a minor complaint in a form of casual entertainment) or rationalize (denial of) the commonality of cheating.
After all, if people accepted that cheating is as common as it actually is, there would be a significant flaw in their form of entertainment. I don't think most people are ready to accept how unjust, unfair, and unbalanced this world really is. Whether that is in the form of the distribution of wealth in real life or the number of people who have used cheats or exploits in a petty video game- I don't think it really matters.
People truly do believe "Ignorance is Bliss", at least subconsciously.
I wonder if there are any psychological studies which show how it is easier for people to deny an unfair reality than to accept a hard truth. I would hope that humanity would rather know the truth, than to pretend to be ignorant of wrong-doing. Unfortunately, that is most likely a rare case.
When I play FPS games I pick a server to play on that has the lowest latency, good admin presence, thest 2 factors makes a server popular.
You might think that's bad that a lot of cheaters play there and your right they are so are the admins so they start banning the cheaters from their server, and voila you have a good clean server with just a odd cheater login in here and there that get banned as soon as he makes a mistake.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I don't think you understood the statement. It when people are complaining about cheating that ISN'T happening, which can be prolific in some games. It's very common not so much for newbs but for novice players that have been around a bit - ones that are getting into the mechanics and learning them - to call people cheaters based on their currently limited knowledge of the game. That is the group that seems most likely to rage, accuse or report players and it's detrimental to the gameplay experience. Not only does their own team have to waste time explaining what really is happening but they've now unfairly labelled another player or team, which could adversely affect what groups or matches they can get into.
Holophonist wasn't saying people should just let others cheat or that you shouldn't report actual cheaters. He was pointing out that the complaining about cheating can be more of a problem than actually cheating in some games.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I wonder if you have any statistical proof that cheating is as common as you seem to believe it is.
Based on my personal experience of MMORPGs only, it really hasn't been much of an issue. Back in the day radar hacking in DAOC got a bit out of hand until Mythic brought it under control, and I've occasionally run into lag hackers in my current DAOC shard, but nothing to the extreme that I felt I lost much to them.
Because at the end of the day, at least with MMORPG's, there's really nothing to win right? And the group that runs the freeshard I play on does a good job of catching and banning cheaters who are reported, with the greatest occurance being those who buff bot.
I think everyone would agree that every game has it's cheaters, we just manage to have fun regardless of their activities.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some may not realize that there are actual programmers who break into games for fun, others possibly those with a background in game development, and old hard-core gamers who've been playing games for years now turn for cheats and profits or out of sheer boredrom. Some out of curiosity and others to 'win' that stake of $13,000 prize. Considering the state of the human mind and there are cheaters in the real-world it is no surprise that such behaviors have entered the gaming realm. Banks have cheated, Insurances have cheated,etc so cheating on games is not uncommon factor.
While it is understandable to attempt curve cheating due to its annoyances it is also to be aware that game companies do not go overboard and attempt to install bad softwares and violate user policy in the process in the case of a few bad apples. This includes specific spywares which is currently being used by casinos and a few MMO companies already. The possible legality waters around this if it is acceptable to install local files on the actual users property and maintain identifiable data on user accounts across a network. Other game companies have gone the EA way as to constantly request online services for a game to work. But in the end have these methods actually worked or have they backfired?
Denial is there as a defense mechanism, to deny is to avoid responsibility. Anyone who cheats or goes backdoor way will generally deny what they are doing naturally. In competitive gaming cheaters are hilarious, as they have no skills in the first place to even play the game. Instead their skills relies on short-cuts and blights. What is left is to enforce the rules when possible and kick the violators out.
or started with phone phreakers...
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I've game long enough in my choosen genre's to know when someone's just damn good, or cheating. It's not hard to spot if you have the time invested, have picked up the cheat yourself, or run Fraps. Generally I'll call the person out, let him/her know they've been discovered then leave the match/area and file a report immediately. Normally I back it up with fraps, and several supportive reports from my mates who also witnessed the action(s). In Fps's you don't find many good cheaters, most are overly obvious .. the "smart" ones only run radar/walls and rely on their twitch skills which is much harder to detect unless of course you use spectate and video to confirm. Cheating is much more prevalent in gaming than most people are willing to admit to, most of us game with people who run some sort of "cheat" and don't even know it. I've on numerous occassions remembered past glory in some title only to hear after the fact that a mate was running cheats and/or exploiting for an advantage and was actually suprised we weren't aware at the time. I speculate that the gaming community would be better served looking inward, at their own teams and guilds for cheating behavior and policing it there than the current method which is " I just died " .
Reply to OP,
I've been gaming since it began. I've been gaming since mmorpg's and multiplayer games started. I also use to run my own game servers. In all my years of gaming there have always been cheaters.
What I learned from hosting games that the ones that scream the loudest that they don't cheat are usually the guilty ones, most of the time that is. I also verified it by reviewing the logs.
There's no way to stop it so you as an honest gamer are left with some choices:
1. In FPS games it can be a fun challenge in trying to kill the cheater.
2. If you get too aggravated simply leave the game and join a different server. Where depending on the game might be more cheaters. Either keep trying different servers or just deal with it or quit playing for a while.
3. In mmorpg's avoid PvP if it's evident people are cheating or try your luck.
4. Take a break from FPS and mmorpg's and play co-op games
5. Understand you will never stop people from using various types of cheats in competitive play.
6. Don't even bother accusing as it will only raise your blood pressure not theirs.
NOTE: Also take into consideration that graphic and broadband lag can appear as someone cheating but takes an experienced eye to know the difference.
Cheating on a video game is both fun yet on the same time, ruin the experiance for others. I am a video game cheater, and I tend to cheat only in my single-player games, i turn my game into a sandbox... who cannot have fun in a game with unlimited ammo, no reload, on rocket launchers and granade launchers, being able to blow up any buildings that are destoryable or laugh to see your foes blow up into the sky and cartwheeling all the way down? It can be fun and it can be hairious, it's also a bypass on something you can't get around when your stuck on a place (noclip does some wonders when your stuck on a rock).
There is just one thing that I don't do is cheat on multi-player games, your not playing by yourself in a multi-player games, your playing with others, and your enemies will not have fun like you are having if you use cheats like your aimbot, your unlimited life, etc, it's no fun for others and people will tend to not like you for what you have done. it's best to not log in to an online game if your using cheats, a trainer, a cheat engine table, or whatever 3rd party programs you used to cheat on multi-player games. It's only ok on single-player games or co-op with your friends if they don't mind.
after reading through all 7 pages, here's my 2¢.
cheating is far more common than people think. it isn't always the hacked aim bot, nodeath, etc. sometimes it's a simple as animation canceling. exploiting a "bug" is cheating. saying that the designers left the "bug" in the game means that it's a "game mechanic" is an excuse for cheating.
i think it takes something that is lacking in most players today, a sense of ethics, to not cheat. doing what is right even when no one is looking over your shoulder, that's ethics. doing something "because you can", is just might makes right. and just being the strongest mofo on the block doesn't automatically mean your judgement is correct in a given situation. it just means you're stronger than anyone else.
a very small percentage of people actually get paid to play games. they are professional players. everyone else, is just you're average in your face taunter wannabe.
"you mad bro?" I wasn't until you said that...
i haven't met a lot of people who have said cheating does not exist.
There are tons of people who claim hax after they get owned.
I guess I really don't understand the point of cheating in a video game. It's not like you win a night in a hot-tub with Sofia Vergara if you get high score or anything. The point of playing a video gaming is to have fun playing the game...and if you are cheating you are simply not. Even leaving ethics aside.... and I was raised in a generation that valued ethics and fair play in sports and games...but lets leave that aside for a moment. I can't see how cheating would actualy make the game more fun over the long term. I can understand how someone might get some perverse joy from it in the short term...of finding a way to "beat the system" or maybe getting over thier frustration of getting mauled all the time...but I can't see how that could possibly last for more then 5 minutes. You've won a video game, big deal, hurrah for you that and $5 will get you an ice-cream.
For me I'm just an average player who wants to have fun playing the game. If I'm getting repeatedly crushed by the opposition.... yeah it's not fun. But my answer to that is that I almost don't care if the individual is cheating or simply too good for me.... I'll usualy just goto a server where the players are closer to my level of play. Just like I wouldn't play tennis regularly with a Proffesional Player that was going at it full tilt or play amatuer baseball against David Ortiz. No hard feelings about it..... it's just not enjoyable to play against people who are completely out of my league... I'd simply find a server that had people closer to my skill level (however crappy that was).
Personaly I haven't noticed much cheating but then again I wasn't really looking for it.