on ESD , Theres lvl 1 players , who wants to shut STO down
then , Theres the Group, complaining about jar jar abrams last movies
add a healthy portion Obama haters
after that, APB actually feels soothing
when a game goes F2P, say goodbye to all human decency
Strange, people who think they are entitled to get everything for free usually love Obama.
And let's be fair to Abrams, his two Trek movies are the best ones since First Contact, which was the only one without Kirk that was actually decent. Depending on your tastes, it would be entirely fair to think they are the best ones since Wrath of Khan.
we can agree, that other mmos look weak, compared to wow
the fact , that swtor isnt better in that respect Works to my advantage
its an unusual IP, it has an unusual budget, but it performs , like a standard game
if you dont see the failure here, then please, go back to school
wow loses , roughly, all their playerbase every year
but guess what? new, and PAYING customers replace them
every mmo is losing customers, but the successful ones get new players
no one passing it? i guess GW2 didnt launch in your universe?
seeing, how much content STO has delivered lately, i have a gut feeling, that theyre in better shape , too
running a big project, like this, on a month-to month basis? really?
i guess, they can fire all the suits, then, no need for planning anything
Well on my server I noticed that most players that are doing the gree event are in fact new players , so swtor is the same as your description of wow. No one knew how to do or what we call the OP on that planet in the event any more. So it seems quite a lot of those 1 mill are new , at least on my server.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
and, how many of them are subs?
even , if ALL of them were, youre still 5-6 mio players short
we can agree, that other mmos look weak, compared to wow
the fact , that swtor isnt better in that respect Works to my advantage
its an unusual IP, it has an unusual budget, but it performs , like a standard game
if you dont see the failure here, then please, go back to school
wow loses , roughly, all their playerbase every year
but guess what? new, and PAYING customers replace them
every mmo is losing customers, but the successful ones get new players
no one passing it? i guess GW2 didnt launch in your universe?
seeing, how much content STO has delivered lately, i have a gut feeling, that theyre in better shape , too
running a big project, like this, on a month-to month basis? really?
i guess, they can fire all the suits, then, no need for planning anything
Well on my server I noticed that most players that are doing the gree event are in fact new players , so swtor is the same as your description of wow. No one knew how to do or what we call the OP on that planet in the event any more. So it seems quite a lot of those 1 mill are new , at least on my server.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
and, how many of them are subs?
even , if ALL of them were, youre still 5-6 mio players short
add the fact, that wow is 8 yeas old
no, old games dont sell as well, as new ones
unless, they have exceptional qualities
We don't know how many are subbs , all I know is that a lot of the players doing the event are totally new on the Ebon Hawk.
Not sure why you think we are still 5-6 million short , O I see as opposed to WOW's numbers , well I think wow was a one off . Still I don't think their next expansion will hold players for long with their have a free level 90 character scheme. People will bore very easily and new people will find it hard to get groups with all the old timers. No one want's a level 90 noob now come on.
I guess SWTOR needs to come up with something exciting within the next 3 months or so to keep that 1 mill per month logging in. Or just gain new ones like what has happened recently on my server.
Cheers ,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
they dont have enough content, to keep the players for very long
and, thats still the reason, for wows superiority
they launched with enough content, to keep most players, until they had a REAL expansion
AFAIK , EQ has a lot of of content too, but its just too hardcore , for the main market
I agree , it's the reason why I have one of each advanced class , never ever have I had 16 characters before in an mmo and I won't be repeating it ever again in my life.
I thought wow had problems in it's first few months or so , but so it did have lots of end-game the day it came out ? If so that was a great move by them. SWTOR is getting there with enough content now but upon release yeah it didn't have a hell of a lot.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
We're at a standstill. Your opinion reminds me of Andryah (official forums), who seems determined to drive players away. If you can't believe that F2P saved this game or that those F2P pep's populating the game don't add quality to your gameplay, then that is on you I guess. Cutting down the very people who kept this game up another year isn't really helping anyone interested in seeing this game through. Wish them all away, scare them away .. and watch people evaporate back down to mid 2012 levels, with dead servers.
You questioned my emotional investment. Har har! The joke is in this "freeloader" garbage EA started, which fans started believing. /sigh
I fully agree that the F2P conversion saved the game. But that is because of the combination of non-subscribers spending money on cartel coins, and subscribers spending money on them in addition to their subs. It is not because of the players who have never spent a single cent contributing to the game. The only thing those people are good for is letting EA pretend they have more players than they do in their marketing campaigns.
Please, explain to me how people who don't spend any money, ever, helped the game make more money? With most of the multiplayer content, if you want to do it more than once or twice a week, it is gated behind paywalls, so it's not like there were some huge number of free players making warzone queues move faster, or making it easier to get flashpoint groups. Free, non-preferred players are functionally limited to the single player portions of the experience for most of their play time, so it would be difficult for the mere fact of their presence to be helping the game in any way.
People who complain about the non-preferred experience being too limited are like people who go into a chocolate shop, get a free sample, and instead of being grateful for their free sample, they complain about how they wanted an entire box of free chocolates, not just one free chocolate, and because they didn't get even more free stuff, they are never going to buy any chocolates. Well they weren't buying chocolates in the first place, just showing up looking for free stuff, so why exactly should the chocolate shop change it's policy?
Originally posted by simplius
thats the problem with modern themeparks
they dont have enough content, to keep the players for very long
and, thats still the reason, for wows superiority
they launched with enough content, to keep most players, until they had a REAL expansion
AFAIK , EQ has a lot of of content too, but its just too hardcore , for the main market
Most of WoW's content has been built up over time, there wasn't *that* much there at launch. In fact, most new games launch with a fair amount more content than WoW did, the problem is that they aren't competing with vanilla WoW levels of content, they are competing with several expansions in. It would cost way too much, and take far too long, to wait to launch a game until it had the same amount of content that WoW has built up over close to a decade.
Also, it's a lot easier to produce content when the narrative presentation consists primarily/exclusively of boxes full of poorly written text. Games like TOR and TSW necessarily have a slower production rate, and would even if they had WoW numbers, because the quality of presentation in those games requires more time and resources.
Originally posted by simplius
IMO, the new ones are the best of ANY ST movies
AFAIK, they sold better, too
Without arguing about how to rank them against each other, I would say the four best Trek movies are the last two, Wrath of Khan, and First Contact.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
It truly amazes me the lengths people will go to to defend this F2P model. I have no problem.....NO PROBLEM.....paying for a skin, or a character slot, or something like that. I will not, however, be FORCED to buy something to get the "added bonus" of unlocking something so unbelievably idiotic as an extra hotbar. People will claim forever that this somehow makes me a freeloader who refuses to pay for anything, but let me ask you this. If you went to the grocery store and went to get a cart, and a man stopped you and said "You have to buy $10 in groceries to use the cart. You were going to buy that much anyways, right? So what is the problem?", you're saying you would gladly take the cart knowing full well that the convenience of a shopping cart is now tied to a forced purchase? Come on. It's not about spending money or not. It's about FORCING people to spend money.
Originally posted by Ganksinatra It truly amazes me the lengths people will go to to defend this F2P model. I have no problem.....NO PROBLEM.....paying for a skin, or a character slot, or something like that. I will not, however, be FORCED to buy something to get the "added bonus" of unlocking something so unbelievably idiotic as an extra hotbar. People will claim forever that this somehow makes me a freeloader who refuses to pay for anything, but let me ask you this. If you went to the grocery store and went to get a cart, and a man stopped you and said "You have to buy $10 in groceries to use the cart. You were going to buy that much anyways, right? So what is the problem?", you're saying you would gladly take the cart knowing full well that the convenience of a shopping cart is now tied to a forced purchase? Come on. It's not about spending money or not. It's about FORCING people to spend money.
Your analogy doesn't accurately represent the situation. What is actually happening is you walk into the grocery store, and they tell you "It's your lucky day. You can pay us $15.00 a month, and you get everything in the store, except a few things on aisle 21! If you can't afford $15.00 a month, just give us $5.00 one time, and then you get everything in aisles 1-15 *forever* - but if you want stuff from aisles 16-20, you have to pay a la carte for it. And because we are in an extremely generous mood, even if you don't pay us anything at all, you still get everything in aisles 1-10, absolutely free." Extra hotbars just happen to be on aisle 11.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Ganksinatra It truly amazes me the lengths people will go to to defend this F2P model. I have no problem.....NO PROBLEM.....paying for a skin, or a character slot, or something like that. I will not, however, be FORCED to buy something to get the "added bonus" of unlocking something so unbelievably idiotic as an extra hotbar. People will claim forever that this somehow makes me a freeloader who refuses to pay for anything, but let me ask you this. If you went to the grocery store and went to get a cart, and a man stopped you and said "You have to buy $10 in groceries to use the cart. You were going to buy that much anyways, right? So what is the problem?", you're saying you would gladly take the cart knowing full well that the convenience of a shopping cart is now tied to a forced purchase? Come on. It's not about spending money or not. It's about FORCING people to spend money.
Your analogy doesn't accurately represent the situation. What is actually happening is you walk into the grocery store, and they tell you "It's your lucky day. You can pay us $15.00 a month, and you get everything in the store, except a few things on aisle 21! If you can't afford $15.00 a month, just give us $5.00 one time, and then you get everything in aisles 1-15 *forever* - but if you want stuff from aisles 16-20, you have to pay a la carte for it. And because we are in an extremely generous mood, even if you don't pay us anything at all, you still get everything in aisles 1-10, absolutely free." Extra hotbars just happen to be on aisle 11.
Wrong. Because the grocery store doesn't tout itself as a free place to come get food, and then when you get there, expects you to pay $5 for the cart and 15 to enter the store. Also, YET AGAIN, you're arguing a different point. As I have said, I have no problem paying for things, but not something that silly. Then people like you come along and try to justify it by saying "You were gonna pay to play anyways so what is the problem?!?!". The problem is that unless you can play the game with 10 buttons effectively, you HAVE to pay money. There's no getting around it. Period. This is the equivalent of charging someone a nickel everytime they log out. It's a ridiculous way to run a F2P model. Do you see any other games using this model? Nope. Not the successful ones at least. You can call this "successful" like RC Cola is "successful", just not when compared to Coke or Pepsi. My issue isn't with spending money like every SWTOR fanboy here seems to insist it is. It's being FORCED to pay in a "free to play" model.
Originally posted by Ganksinatra If you went to the grocery store and went to get a cart, and a man stopped you and said "You have to buy $10 in groceries to use the cart. You were going to buy that much anyways, right? So what is the problem?", you're saying you would gladly take the cart knowing full well that the convenience of a shopping cart is now tied to a forced purchase? Come on. It's not about spending money or not. It's about FORCING people to spend money.
Interesting analogy, now that you say it, mmorpgs recently remind me more of shopping carts than games anyway
Wrong. Because the grocery store doesn't tout itself as a free place to come get food, and then when you get there, expects you to pay $5 for the cart and 15 to enter the store.
You are still terrible at analogies. It's 15 for unlimited access to almost everything in the store, not for access. Access is free. Almost everything in the game is free in fact. No core functionality is behind a pay wall. The single player aspects of TOR are not difficult. You can easily play from 1-50 with any class using only a single hotbar.
What you people don't seem to understand is that the free option is not supposed to be anywhere close to being as convenient and complete as the experience is for people who spend money. If it were, most of them would not spend money. This is a business, not a charity, and they've been far more generous than people have any right or reason to expect.
It astonishes me the lengths people will go to to condemn a company for giving them eight complete class stories, and all the accompanying world quests and side quests, all completely free, just because they tried to preserve some way to still make money and be able to keep the servers running.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Wrong. Because the grocery store doesn't tout itself as a free place to come get food, and then when you get there, expects you to pay $5 for the cart and 15 to enter the store.
You are still terrible at analogies. It's 15 for unlimited access to almost everything in the store, not for access. Access is free. Almost everything in the game is free in fact. No core functionality is behind a pay wall. The single player aspects of TOR are not difficult. You can easily play from 1-50 with any class using only a single hotbar.
What you people don't seem to understand is that the free option is not supposed to be anywhere close to being as convenient and complete as the experience is for people who spend money. If it were, most of them would not spend money. This is a business, not a charity, and they've been far more generous than people have any right or reason to expect.
It astonishes me the lengths people will go to to condemn a company for giving them eight complete class stories, and all the accompanying world quests and side quests, all completely free, just because they tried to preserve some way to still make money and be able to keep the servers running.
....and no extra hotbars. It amazes me they would give us ALL THAT, and then try to nickel and dime players for quality of life improvements. That's what YOU don't seem to get. My analogy is fine, you just keep trying to be obtuse so you don't have to admit that charging for fuggin HOTBARS is ridiculous. All of the things you mentioned are seriously at a disadvantage as well. But you know that, and act as though you get the same game as everyone else. Let's go back to YOUR version of the store. "Come on in. Everything but aisle 21 I free. Now, please put on these 500lb ankle weights, your cart only has 2 wheels, no one is allowed to help you, and we set you on fire! Have a great day!". As far as your "Woe is me, how will they keep the servers running?!?!", they make plenty obviously from people who actually want to play Star Wars Barbie in the Cartel Shop. So really, the fact that they would charge for something as small as hotbars just goes to show you how greedy EA is and always has been. What really amazes me is how you seem to be functionally illiterate, yet able to still type back. I'll say it one more time for you.....I WILL PAY FOR THINGS, JUST NOT THIS. You can keep making this argument about how cheap everyone is who won't just give money to a game for a UI component, but you're just making yourself look silly at this point. I play 4 subscription MMOs right now. I played SWTOR when it came out. It wasn't good then, and it's the same now. Welcome to your 8 "different" storylines (read:20 quests scattered throughout the 900 other rerun quests you have to do everytime). While technically the word "different" is correct, it's hardly what they said it would be. Anyways, thanks for proving my point that the fans of this game will go through such amazing mental gymnastics to support this terrible F2P "option" that I can actually imagine the smoke coming from your ears.
That's hopeful news for SWTOR , maybe even a SWTOR 2. I liked reading that they don't want to make actual ...
To me Swtor is already along with Wow best duo ever. And as 3rd I see for now Gw2. And it IS big success. Yes, far from Wow sub numbers but still better probably then any sub game.
....and no extra hotbars. It amazes me they would give us ALL THAT, and then try to nickel and dime players for quality of life improvements. That's what YOU don't seem to get. My analogy is fine, you just keep trying to be obtuse so you don't have to admit that charging for fuggin HOTBARS is ridiculous. All of the things you mentioned are seriously at a disadvantage as well. But you know that, and act as though you get the same game as everyone else. Let's go back to YOUR version of the store. "Come on in. Everything but aisle 21 I free. Now, please put on these 500lb ankle weights, your cart only has 2 wheels, no one is allowed to help you, and we set you on fire! Have a great day!". As far as your "Woe is me, how will they keep the servers running?!?!", they make plenty obviously from people who actually want to play Star Wars Barbie in the Cartel Shop. So really, the fact that they would charge for something as small as hotbars just goes to show you how greedy EA is and always has been. What really amazes me is how you seem to be functionally illiterate, yet able to still type back. I'll say it one more time for you.....I WILL PAY FOR THINGS, JUST NOT THIS. You can keep making this argument about how cheap everyone is who won't just give money to a game for a UI component, but you're just making yourself look silly at this point. I play 4 subscription MMOs right now. I played SWTOR when it came out. It wasn't good then, and it's the same now. Welcome to your 8 "different" storylines (read:20 quests scattered throughout the 900 other rerun quests you have to do everytime). While technically the word "different" is correct, it's hardly what they said it would be. Anyways, thanks for proving my point that the fans of this game will go through such amazing mental gymnastics to support this terrible F2P "option" that I can actually imagine the smoke coming from your ears.
You don't have to pay for hotbars. You get more hotbars than anyone realistically needs, automatically, if you pay for anything. They are the "free with any purchase" items. 500lb ankle weights, and a two wheel cart, seriously? Is TOR really that hard for you, that you are incapable of consuming content with just one hotbar?
Better analogy than a grocery store. A restaurant, where all the appetizers and entrees are free, but if you want lifetime access to silverware, you have to buy a $5.00 dessert first. Not every time, just once, then you get silverware forever. If being a penny-pinching cheapskate is really that important to you, needing to eat with your hands shouldn't be that great an inconvenience.
You are showing your true colors toward the end there. You never even liked the game, so of course the massive amount of free content doesn't sway your opinion, because you don't find any of it to have value anyway. People who pay for nothing, deserve nothing, and have opinions that are worth nothing.
And guess what? Even if your hyperbole were actually a reasonable opinion, and the "free" experience was like having 500lb weights and a two-wheel cart, there is nothing wrong with that. The free experience isn't supposed to do anything but give people enough of a taste to make them want to spend money for a better experience, and if you don't understand that about any freemium game even before you play it, then you are the one who is being obtuse. TOR is way, way, *way* too generous in what it gives to free players already. They should probably have pulled a WoW, give everybody the first two planets free, then charge to unlock any content after that.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Wrong. Because the grocery store doesn't tout itself as a free place to come get food, and then when you get there, expects you to pay $5 for the cart and 15 to enter the store.
You are still terrible at analogies. It's 15 for unlimited access to almost everything in the store, not for access. Access is free. Almost everything in the game is free in fact. No core functionality is behind a pay wall. The single player aspects of TOR are not difficult. You can easily play from 1-50 with any class using only a single hotbar.
What you people don't seem to understand is that the free option is not supposed to be anywhere close to being as convenient and complete as the experience is for people who spend money. If it were, most of them would not spend money. This is a business, not a charity, and they've been far more generous than people have any right or reason to expect.
It astonishes me the lengths people will go to to condemn a company for giving them eight complete class stories, and all the accompanying world quests and side quests, all completely free, just because they tried to preserve some way to still make money and be able to keep the servers running.
"you can easily play 1-50. with any class, and only one hotbar"
first of all: PROVE IT
second: why put so many skills , and bars , in the game, IF YOU DONT NEED THEM?
if it was as easy, as you claim, they wouldnt have tanked so hard
If you're asking for proof that TOR can be played from 1-50 with only one hotbar then clearly you didn't play the game for very long and have no idea what you're talking about as far as the game goes. Sort of like those NGE fans that claim SWG was a sandbox game at shutdown.
Originally posted by ktanner3 If you're asking for proof that TOR can be played from 1-50 with only one hotbar then clearly you didn't play the game for very long and have no idea what you're talking about as far as the game goes. Sort of like those NGE fans that claim SWG was a sandbox game at shutdown.
This. I don't think any of my characters used more than two hotbars, but only because I had them to use, not because I actually needed the second. Unless I am forgetting something, every single thing on my second hotbar was a convenience feature, not something I actually needed in a fight. You don't have to use every ability available to your character simply because it is available. The game isn't hard enough or complex enough to need differential ability loadouts depending on which content you are doing. (I say this as someone with one 55, and five characters somewhere between 51-54).
As for SWG, lol. You are correct, at shutdown it was no sandbox, it was a collection of themepark attractions dropped into a vast, mostly empty wasteland, which those attractions happened to share with wide swaths of abandoned player made urban sprawl, which itself was mostly left over from when it was a fundamentally different game.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by ktanner3 If you're asking for proof that TOR can be played from 1-50 with only one hotbar then clearly you didn't play the game for very long and have no idea what you're talking about as far as the game goes. Sort of like those NGE fans that claim SWG was a sandbox game at shutdown.
im not saying, that its impossible
im saying, that , just beacuse a minority could, and would, do it, it might not be enjoyable for the casual player
why design a casual game, and then scare the casual gamer away?
maybe i can mash buttons at a frantic rate, but i wont pay for it long term
good mmos let the players chose their own pace
some of them , even have (gasp) DIFFICULTY SETTINGS
You could also (gasp) go play all those games out there which in your mind are better than TOR. Judging from your posts in this thread, WOW is champion and everyone else sucks so maybe you should be playing WOW since clearly it meets your high and mighty standards.
Originally posted by ktanner3 You could also (gasp) go play all those games out there which in your mind are better than TOR. Judging from your posts in this thread, WOW is champion and everyone else sucks so maybe you should be playing WOW since clearly it meets your high and mighty standards.
Wow does have chatbubbles, very impressive for a 10 year old game? EA won't implement this because it is "too time consuming".
For a subscription game, side by side, WoW also doesn't charge extra for additional emotes or functionality. There are plenty of other examples.
WoW from it's very onset had many interesting items (and keeps pumping them out), but a game 8 years later (SWTOR) had little. A year after SWTOR was released, it had some awesome stuff too, but all the interesting stuff was put into a cash-shop.
Either buy those items off the cash-shop CM or grind endlessly to get the credits for the GTN / AH, where someone else who bought them with $$ will sell them to you.
For a Star Wars game, known for cutting edge technology, seeing fans telling others to go back in time to WoW, in order to get a better experience is comical?
If you can't realize that after two years TOR is not the game for you then yes, it's time for you people to get over it and move on. Go play WOW with it's chat bubbles and pretty pandas or whatever else you choose to play. My guess is most of you aren't playing anything at the moment because you get more joy out of griping over games than playing them.
Originally posted by ktanner3 If you're asking for proof that TOR can be played from 1-50 with only one hotbar then clearly you didn't play the game for very long and have no idea what you're talking about as far as the game goes. Sort of like those NGE fans that claim SWG was a sandbox game at shutdown.
im not saying, that its impossible
im saying, that , just beacuse a minority could, and would, do it, it might not be enjoyable for the casual player
why design a casual game, and then scare the casual gamer away?
maybe i can mash buttons at a frantic rate, but i wont pay for it long term
good mmos let the players chose their own pace
some of them , even have (gasp) DIFFICULTY SETTINGS
Wait, lack of extra hotbars scares casuals away? Since when? Wouldn't casuals be the people most likely to prefer just using one hotbar? The kind of people being targeted by games which are focusing on having even less function that one hotbar?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
WoW from it's very onset had many interesting items (and keeps pumping them out), but a game 8 years later (SWTOR) had little. A year after SWTOR was released, it had some awesome stuff too, but all the interesting stuff was put into a cash-shop.
/snip
I wish WoW had something as interesting as GSF.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Originally posted by ktanner3 You could also (gasp) go play all those games out there which in your mind are better than TOR. Judging from your posts in this thread, WOW is champion and everyone else sucks so maybe you should be playing WOW since clearly it meets your high and mighty standards.
after 5+ years in wow, i need something new
over 200 characters on 2 accounts, over 2800 hrs on my main character
wow doesnt have anymore for me ( and i really hate the new talent system)
of course, it would be too much to ask, for a MAINSTREAM game, to have MAINSTREAM quality
Comments
IMO, the new ones are the best of ANY ST movies
AFAIK, they sold better, too
and, how many of them are subs?
even , if ALL of them were, youre still 5-6 mio players short
add the fact, that wow is 8 yeas old
no, old games dont sell as well, as new ones
unless, they have exceptional qualities
We don't know how many are subbs , all I know is that a lot of the players doing the event are totally new on the Ebon Hawk.
Not sure why you think we are still 5-6 million short , O I see as opposed to WOW's numbers , well I think wow was a one off . Still I don't think their next expansion will hold players for long with their have a free level 90 character scheme. People will bore very easily and new people will find it hard to get groups with all the old timers. No one want's a level 90 noob now come on.
I guess SWTOR needs to come up with something exciting within the next 3 months or so to keep that 1 mill per month logging in. Or just gain new ones like what has happened recently on my server.
Cheers ,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
thats the problem with modern themeparks
they dont have enough content, to keep the players for very long
and, thats still the reason, for wows superiority
they launched with enough content, to keep most players, until they had a REAL expansion
AFAIK , EQ has a lot of of content too, but its just too hardcore , for the main market
I agree , it's the reason why I have one of each advanced class , never ever have I had 16 characters before in an mmo and I won't be repeating it ever again in my life.
I thought wow had problems in it's first few months or so , but so it did have lots of end-game the day it came out ? If so that was a great move by them. SWTOR is getting there with enough content now but upon release yeah it didn't have a hell of a lot.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
I fully agree that the F2P conversion saved the game. But that is because of the combination of non-subscribers spending money on cartel coins, and subscribers spending money on them in addition to their subs. It is not because of the players who have never spent a single cent contributing to the game. The only thing those people are good for is letting EA pretend they have more players than they do in their marketing campaigns.
Please, explain to me how people who don't spend any money, ever, helped the game make more money? With most of the multiplayer content, if you want to do it more than once or twice a week, it is gated behind paywalls, so it's not like there were some huge number of free players making warzone queues move faster, or making it easier to get flashpoint groups. Free, non-preferred players are functionally limited to the single player portions of the experience for most of their play time, so it would be difficult for the mere fact of their presence to be helping the game in any way.
People who complain about the non-preferred experience being too limited are like people who go into a chocolate shop, get a free sample, and instead of being grateful for their free sample, they complain about how they wanted an entire box of free chocolates, not just one free chocolate, and because they didn't get even more free stuff, they are never going to buy any chocolates. Well they weren't buying chocolates in the first place, just showing up looking for free stuff, so why exactly should the chocolate shop change it's policy?
Most of WoW's content has been built up over time, there wasn't *that* much there at launch. In fact, most new games launch with a fair amount more content than WoW did, the problem is that they aren't competing with vanilla WoW levels of content, they are competing with several expansions in. It would cost way too much, and take far too long, to wait to launch a game until it had the same amount of content that WoW has built up over close to a decade.
Also, it's a lot easier to produce content when the narrative presentation consists primarily/exclusively of boxes full of poorly written text. Games like TOR and TSW necessarily have a slower production rate, and would even if they had WoW numbers, because the quality of presentation in those games requires more time and resources.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
no, at launch, wow had thousands of hours of content..CASUAL content
we could have done it faster, if we had just read the guides, but that was our last resource
i still have a grudge with wow, and i still miss it
i dropped the starcraft expansion..i would really like to play it
but i wont take blizzards ##### any more
i cant play a single player strategy game , without a constant connection?
you cant sell me the game.
thatll show those fat cats,,they lost a cent...each
Your analogy doesn't accurately represent the situation. What is actually happening is you walk into the grocery store, and they tell you "It's your lucky day. You can pay us $15.00 a month, and you get everything in the store, except a few things on aisle 21! If you can't afford $15.00 a month, just give us $5.00 one time, and then you get everything in aisles 1-15 *forever* - but if you want stuff from aisles 16-20, you have to pay a la carte for it. And because we are in an extremely generous mood, even if you don't pay us anything at all, you still get everything in aisles 1-10, absolutely free." Extra hotbars just happen to be on aisle 11.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Wrong. Because the grocery store doesn't tout itself as a free place to come get food, and then when you get there, expects you to pay $5 for the cart and 15 to enter the store. Also, YET AGAIN, you're arguing a different point. As I have said, I have no problem paying for things, but not something that silly. Then people like you come along and try to justify it by saying "You were gonna pay to play anyways so what is the problem?!?!". The problem is that unless you can play the game with 10 buttons effectively, you HAVE to pay money. There's no getting around it. Period. This is the equivalent of charging someone a nickel everytime they log out. It's a ridiculous way to run a F2P model. Do you see any other games using this model? Nope. Not the successful ones at least. You can call this "successful" like RC Cola is "successful", just not when compared to Coke or Pepsi. My issue isn't with spending money like every SWTOR fanboy here seems to insist it is. It's being FORCED to pay in a "free to play" model.
Interesting analogy, now that you say it, mmorpgs recently remind me more of shopping carts than games anyway
You are still terrible at analogies. It's 15 for unlimited access to almost everything in the store, not for access. Access is free. Almost everything in the game is free in fact. No core functionality is behind a pay wall. The single player aspects of TOR are not difficult. You can easily play from 1-50 with any class using only a single hotbar.
What you people don't seem to understand is that the free option is not supposed to be anywhere close to being as convenient and complete as the experience is for people who spend money. If it were, most of them would not spend money. This is a business, not a charity, and they've been far more generous than people have any right or reason to expect.
It astonishes me the lengths people will go to to condemn a company for giving them eight complete class stories, and all the accompanying world quests and side quests, all completely free, just because they tried to preserve some way to still make money and be able to keep the servers running.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
....and no extra hotbars. It amazes me they would give us ALL THAT, and then try to nickel and dime players for quality of life improvements. That's what YOU don't seem to get. My analogy is fine, you just keep trying to be obtuse so you don't have to admit that charging for fuggin HOTBARS is ridiculous. All of the things you mentioned are seriously at a disadvantage as well. But you know that, and act as though you get the same game as everyone else. Let's go back to YOUR version of the store. "Come on in. Everything but aisle 21 I free. Now, please put on these 500lb ankle weights, your cart only has 2 wheels, no one is allowed to help you, and we set you on fire! Have a great day!". As far as your "Woe is me, how will they keep the servers running?!?!", they make plenty obviously from people who actually want to play Star Wars Barbie in the Cartel Shop. So really, the fact that they would charge for something as small as hotbars just goes to show you how greedy EA is and always has been. What really amazes me is how you seem to be functionally illiterate, yet able to still type back. I'll say it one more time for you.....I WILL PAY FOR THINGS, JUST NOT THIS. You can keep making this argument about how cheap everyone is who won't just give money to a game for a UI component, but you're just making yourself look silly at this point. I play 4 subscription MMOs right now. I played SWTOR when it came out. It wasn't good then, and it's the same now. Welcome to your 8 "different" storylines (read:20 quests scattered throughout the 900 other rerun quests you have to do everytime). While technically the word "different" is correct, it's hardly what they said it would be. Anyways, thanks for proving my point that the fans of this game will go through such amazing mental gymnastics to support this terrible F2P "option" that I can actually imagine the smoke coming from your ears.
To me Swtor is already along with Wow best duo ever. And as 3rd I see for now Gw2. And it IS big success. Yes, far from Wow sub numbers but still better probably then any sub game.
You don't have to pay for hotbars. You get more hotbars than anyone realistically needs, automatically, if you pay for anything. They are the "free with any purchase" items. 500lb ankle weights, and a two wheel cart, seriously? Is TOR really that hard for you, that you are incapable of consuming content with just one hotbar?
Better analogy than a grocery store. A restaurant, where all the appetizers and entrees are free, but if you want lifetime access to silverware, you have to buy a $5.00 dessert first. Not every time, just once, then you get silverware forever. If being a penny-pinching cheapskate is really that important to you, needing to eat with your hands shouldn't be that great an inconvenience.
You are showing your true colors toward the end there. You never even liked the game, so of course the massive amount of free content doesn't sway your opinion, because you don't find any of it to have value anyway. People who pay for nothing, deserve nothing, and have opinions that are worth nothing.
And guess what? Even if your hyperbole were actually a reasonable opinion, and the "free" experience was like having 500lb weights and a two-wheel cart, there is nothing wrong with that. The free experience isn't supposed to do anything but give people enough of a taste to make them want to spend money for a better experience, and if you don't understand that about any freemium game even before you play it, then you are the one who is being obtuse. TOR is way, way, *way* too generous in what it gives to free players already. They should probably have pulled a WoW, give everybody the first two planets free, then charge to unlock any content after that.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
"you can easily play 1-50. with any class, and only one hotbar"
first of all: PROVE IT
second: why put so many skills , and bars , in the game, IF YOU DONT NEED THEM?
if it was as easy, as you claim, they wouldnt have tanked so hard
see evidence A: wow
people like easy games
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
This. I don't think any of my characters used more than two hotbars, but only because I had them to use, not because I actually needed the second. Unless I am forgetting something, every single thing on my second hotbar was a convenience feature, not something I actually needed in a fight. You don't have to use every ability available to your character simply because it is available. The game isn't hard enough or complex enough to need differential ability loadouts depending on which content you are doing. (I say this as someone with one 55, and five characters somewhere between 51-54).
As for SWG, lol. You are correct, at shutdown it was no sandbox, it was a collection of themepark attractions dropped into a vast, mostly empty wasteland, which those attractions happened to share with wide swaths of abandoned player made urban sprawl, which itself was mostly left over from when it was a fundamentally different game.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
im not saying, that its impossible
im saying, that , just beacuse a minority could, and would, do it, it might not be enjoyable for the casual player
why design a casual game, and then scare the casual gamer away?
maybe i can mash buttons at a frantic rate, but i wont pay for it long term
good mmos let the players chose their own pace
some of them , even have (gasp) DIFFICULTY SETTINGS
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Wow does have chatbubbles, very impressive for a 10 year old game? EA won't implement this because it is "too time consuming".
For a subscription game, side by side, WoW also doesn't charge extra for additional emotes or functionality. There are plenty of other examples.
WoW from it's very onset had many interesting items (and keeps pumping them out), but a game 8 years later (SWTOR) had little. A year after SWTOR was released, it had some awesome stuff too, but all the interesting stuff was put into a cash-shop.
Either buy those items off the cash-shop CM or grind endlessly to get the credits for the GTN / AH, where someone else who bought them with $$ will sell them to you.
For a Star Wars game, known for cutting edge technology, seeing fans telling others to go back in time to WoW, in order to get a better experience is comical?
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Wait, lack of extra hotbars scares casuals away? Since when? Wouldn't casuals be the people most likely to prefer just using one hotbar? The kind of people being targeted by games which are focusing on having even less function that one hotbar?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I wish WoW had something as interesting as GSF.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
after 5+ years in wow, i need something new
over 200 characters on 2 accounts, over 2800 hrs on my main character
wow doesnt have anymore for me ( and i really hate the new talent system)
of course, it would be too much to ask, for a MAINSTREAM game, to have MAINSTREAM quality
...if it bears the SW logo