Originally posted by nerovipus32 How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
I just gave you 3 examples why yet im brainwashed. If I was brainwashed I wouldnt have played so many f2p or b2p mmos in my life. Its because I played so many of both that to me my experience with sub models have been more enjoyable personally compared to those other models.
Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.
Yeah take WoW for example not only do they charge a monthly fee they also charge for the game and has one of the most expensive cash shops in the MMO market ($20-25 dollar mounts anyone???)
LOTRO is a game where you can buy access to regions, raids and entire expansions. Everything in that game is divided up into small, purchasable chunks. It also has "Deals of the Day" and a GIANT button that takes you to the in game store. EQ2 is the same way.
That's actually standard for F2P games. ESO will go F2P, in record time.
Subscription is better then cash shop, hands down.
I would rather play the game, and work in game to acquire, for example, bigger or more bag slots. Not just pay 4.99 for a bag slot and then 4.99 for the max bag.... that is how it goes with cash shops.
And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.
I do not believe you speak for the majority, and neither do I, but your statement is false. We cannot go further with this due to the NDA though...
@OP, I agree with the sub model as well. I have been playing mmo's before we even had RIP graphics on BBS services. I have to say, that in general, I have experienced better communities in subscription mmo's, than in f2p mmo's. I have also experienced less 'nickel and diming' from the sub model. I prefer to pay a set amount for total access than this al a carte garbage that attempts to lure you into spending more or suffer a grind. There are always exceptions to this, but these are my thoughts on this in general.
I believe there is some psychology to a game that has a monthly fee that adds value compared to one that anyone can play on, which has no value to some. It reminds me of a child. If they work to earn something, they tend to appreciate and care for it more. If it is just given to them, then they tend to not care for it as much. You can go do the research on perceived value and behavior in the marketplace that supports my beliefs on this.
Cheers!
True on a number of points as a P2P actually seems to get you more in the form of Content and updates and if anyone feels gw2 adds that then thats a sign of the mmo times as is the fluff in so mnay games.
If subbing adds to a better community? well its 50/50 here as theres turds in every game.I myself wish the game to do well but when looking at a business aspect Id rather see it a B2p then go sub model for as long as they feel there staying in the black.I really see this adding some style of cash shop as well to supplement cash flow.
I could be wrong but in todays market of mmos its the way.
ESO will make bittersweet love to the dead, bloated carcass of the FTP model. ESO will then take out a pearl handled dagger from it's cloak & slice open the tender underbelly, exposing FTP's innerds. ESO will then begin to sort through the gooey insides. Lifting up FTP's entrails high above it's head, ESO will begin the ceremony by speaking in tongues & barking at the moon.
All of the subscription minded players will ascend to an immortal status as the F2P parasites will squirm like slugs in salt.
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley ESO will make bittersweet love to the dead, bloated carcass of the FTP model. ESO will then take out a pearl handled dagger from it's cloak & slice open the tender underbelly, exposing FTP's innerds. ESO will then begin to sort through the gooey insides. Lifting up FTP's entrails high above it's head, ESO will begin the ceremony by speaking in tongues & barking at the moon.
All of the sunscription minded players will ascend to an immortal status as the F2P parasites will squirm like slugs in salt.
The end.
All this is moot since ESO is basically heading from a P2P game bombing and turning F2P in a year or so, depending on how many fanboys/girls throw their money at the game in preorders/subs at launch. Because honestly, the game's just a bunch of hype feeding on the Elder Scrolls name at the moment and considering they're so close to open beta, not much is going to change the core game.
And to the OP, f2p vs P2p. At the end of the day, you need to find a F2P game that has a good business model (Path of Exile, Rift) and obviously you'd want said developers to make money right? So they can actually keep the servers up for said games and develop content? Unless you're one of those free loading ass hats that want access to 100% of the game and not pay them for any service and just cry about a cosmetic skin you want which only costs 3$? But feel the cash shops are leaching money baggers? Regardless of it being F2P or P2P? So you either spend some money on some cash shop cosmetics or pay a sub if its sub based. If you're using the F2P cash shop, don't blow over $15 a month and you'll feel happy?
With the ridiculous amount of MMO's that have launched P2P, I would say most of them have gone F2P with some cash shopping. Why? Because the games simply suck, bad mechanics, shit end game, or just shit game to begin with or maybe because so many people have become jaded with what MMORPG's are anymore? Disillusioned as well? And I'd say the OP is disillusioned if he feels a P2P game is equaling to quality or whatever else they may feel is associated with it, because its not.
Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.
Yeah take WoW for example not only do they charge a monthly fee they also charge for the game and has one of the most expensive cash shops in the MMO market ($20-25 dollar mounts anyone???)
Apparently, you've never played Neverwinter then lol.
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title. Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol. Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further. Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation. I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.
The fact they will milk people before going FTP is insulting to customers. Some are just not intelligent enough to see it.
you win.
seriously.
they are blinded. but let them waste money on subs if they really think it's worth it to keep paying for a game that you already paid 60$ for.
box fee and expansions is the way to go. otherwise, you just like being scammed.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
I would disagree, every time i play a F2p game i never feel a sense of community, most people just hop from game to game because they have no reason to commit and put time into the game.
so it is better to play with burnt-out players that only stick with a game because they have a sub. becuase that is the flip side of your argument.
paying a sub to play with other people that are tired of the game but are only playing because they are 'paying a sub'. as opposed to playing with people just looking for a good time. video games are about fun, not finacial obligations...
Originally posted by nerovipus32 How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.
Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.
That's like saying when you go to a buffet, you don't want to pay for others to eat shrimp because don't like shrimp. You pay the sub to get in the door. No one makes you raid and the raids would be there even if you weren't.
"Glad ESO will be subscription model, so I can support the developers before coming here a month after the launch and making a wall of text on how this game brings nothing new to the table and is as boring as any other mmo out there in the market right now"
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title. Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol. Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further. Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation. I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.
I am really interested in knowing which game you possibly played where you need to buy access to regions. Or even a game which forcefully pops up a window telling the deals of the day as soon as you login. You actually sound like you have never played a F2P MMO.
And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.
LOTRO for the unlocking of regions and EQ/EQ2 for deals of the day.
Idk, i used to really like the sub model, but now im kinda wanted a b2p/f2p hybrid.
When you think about the sub model these days, you really don't see much return on your payments in the way of content and such. I mean look at the WoW cycle of content, months without meaningful content.
Seems to reason, you could buy a box, don't pay a sub, but buy content in installments or DLC so your guaranteed your money is going straight into the content you want.
Of course the problem is companies wont settle for that, they want to nickle and dime you for all the small things as well, bagslots, cosmetics, boosters...
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by nerovipus32 How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.
Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.
That's like saying when you go to a buffet, you don't want to pay for others to eat shrimp because don't like shrimp. You pay the sub to get in the door. No one makes you raid and the raids would be there even if you weren't.
No it's actually more like if shrimp was included in my bill, even though i don't like shrimp.
Seems to reason, you could buy a box, don't pay a sub, but buy content in installments or DLC so your guaranteed your money is going straight into the content you want.
this is the only way that it should work.
anything else is a scam. whether cash shop or sub fee.
[quote] Originally posted by Zairu [quote] [b]paying a sub to play with other people that are tired of the game but are only playing because they are 'paying a sub'. as opposed to playing with people just looking for a good time. video games are about fun, not finacial obligations...[/quote]
Oh...you mean like WoW players....
People like me WANT a sub game if it goes back to when people that liked/loved a game are paying to play it and not a bunch of bored kids creating a character to...well, as like bored kids.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.
Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.
That's like saying when you go to a buffet, you don't want to pay for others to eat shrimp because don't like shrimp. You pay the sub to get in the door. No one makes you raid and the raids would be there even if you weren't.
No it's actually more like if shrimp was included in my bill, even though i don't like shrimp.
all i learned from these compariosn is that it is a waste of time to use pointless comparisons.
it is not food. it is not pop music. if you can't hold a debate using pure subject matter relevant to the debate, then you have no reason to speak about said debate.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.
Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.
That's like saying when you go to a buffet, you don't want to pay for others to eat shrimp because don't like shrimp. You pay the sub to get in the door. No one makes you raid and the raids would be there even if you weren't.
No it's actually more like if shrimp was included in my bill, even though i don't like shrimp.
This is what you don't get. Shrimp are NOT included. You pay the price to try what you want. No one made you pay for any one item. You get to sample what you want. Not really getting why you think you are paying for what others do.
[quote] Originally posted by Zairu [quote] [b]paying a sub to play with other people that are tired of the game but are only playing because they are 'paying a sub'. as opposed to playing with people just looking for a good time. video games are about fun, not finacial obligations...[/quote]
Oh...you mean like WoW players....
People like me WANT a sub game if it goes back to when people that liked/loved a game are paying to play it and not a bunch of bored kids creating a character to...well, as like bored kids.
yes. i DO mean WOW players.
not sure how you thought that pointing that out actually helped the 'pro-subs' debate.
your second comment is just assuming that everyone will 'love' a game just because it is sub based, OR! - that somehow games are going back to some golden age that will offer you an experince of unending 'love'. (purely subjective to each person)
Originally posted by nerovipus32 How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.
Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.
That's like saying when you go to a buffet, you don't want to pay for others to eat shrimp because don't like shrimp. You pay the sub to get in the door. No one makes you raid and the raids would be there even if you weren't.
No it's actually more like if shrimp was included in my bill, even though i don't like shrimp.
This is what you don't get. Shrimp are NOT included. You pay the price to try what you want. No one made you pay for any one item. You get to sample what you want. Not really getting why you think you are paying for what others do.
I could say the very same thing for b2p and f2p that you some how think are an inferior way to spend your money.
Giving money over to a sub par service is in no way intelligent regardless of the way you pay. Prefering a subscription model does not make you less of an idiot than any other sucker who pays for these repetitive games. p2p is as much p2w as f2p is. If you don't pay every month you can't win.
I'll only pay for a game as long as I'm enjoying it. The minute I don't enjoy it anymore /unsub.
Wasting time playing a game you're not enjoying just because it's free seems like the idiotic thing to me.
I don't play a persistent MMO to "win". I play it to enjoy myself. $15 a month is pretty cheap for something that really keeps me entertained. 1 cent a month is too expensive for something that doesn't.
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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I'm glad that this game will be a subscription model because the game developers need a good source of income to work out all the initial bugs that come after launch. I won't play it at all until it goes B2P though. I do think the P2P until it's fixed then B2P/F2P is a great revenue model nowadays.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Giving money over to a sub par service is in no way intelligent regardless of the way you pay. Prefering a subscription model does not make you less of an idiot than any other sucker who pays for these repetitive games. p2p is as much p2w as f2p is. If you don't pay every month you can't win.
I'll only pay for a game as long as I'm enjoying it. The minute I don't enjoy it anymore /unsub.
Wasting time playing a game you're not enjoying just because it's free seems like the idiotic thing to me.
I don't play a persistent MMO to "win". I play it to enjoy myself. $15 a month is pretty cheap for something that really keeps me entertained. 1 cent a month is too expensive for something that doesn't.
Paying for something each month when you could possibly get the same entertainment for free or cheaper is stupid. If an mmo wants to justify a monthly sub then it has to be much better than the mmo's that are free. At this point in time p2p is not any better than f2p mmo's. They are all the bloody same game.
Comments
I just gave you 3 examples why yet im brainwashed. If I was brainwashed I wouldnt have played so many f2p or b2p mmos in my life. Its because I played so many of both that to me my experience with sub models have been more enjoyable personally compared to those other models.
Yeah take WoW for example not only do they charge a monthly fee they also charge for the game and has one of the most expensive cash shops in the MMO market ($20-25 dollar mounts anyone???)
LOTRO is a game where you can buy access to regions, raids and entire expansions. Everything in that game is divided up into small, purchasable chunks. It also has "Deals of the Day" and a GIANT button that takes you to the in game store. EQ2 is the same way.
That's actually standard for F2P games. ESO will go F2P, in record time.
Subscription is better then cash shop, hands down.
I would rather play the game, and work in game to acquire, for example, bigger or more bag slots. Not just pay 4.99 for a bag slot and then 4.99 for the max bag.... that is how it goes with cash shops.
True on a number of points as a P2P actually seems to get you more in the form of Content and updates and if anyone feels gw2 adds that then thats a sign of the mmo times as is the fluff in so mnay games.
If subbing adds to a better community? well its 50/50 here as theres turds in every game.I myself wish the game to do well but when looking at a business aspect Id rather see it a B2p then go sub model for as long as they feel there staying in the black.I really see this adding some style of cash shop as well to supplement cash flow.
I could be wrong but in todays market of mmos its the way.
All of the subscription minded players will ascend to an immortal status as the F2P parasites will squirm like slugs in salt.
The end.
All this is moot since ESO is basically heading from a P2P game bombing and turning F2P in a year or so, depending on how many fanboys/girls throw their money at the game in preorders/subs at launch. Because honestly, the game's just a bunch of hype feeding on the Elder Scrolls name at the moment and considering they're so close to open beta, not much is going to change the core game.
And to the OP, f2p vs P2p. At the end of the day, you need to find a F2P game that has a good business model (Path of Exile, Rift) and obviously you'd want said developers to make money right? So they can actually keep the servers up for said games and develop content? Unless you're one of those free loading ass hats that want access to 100% of the game and not pay them for any service and just cry about a cosmetic skin you want which only costs 3$? But feel the cash shops are leaching money baggers? Regardless of it being F2P or P2P? So you either spend some money on some cash shop cosmetics or pay a sub if its sub based. If you're using the F2P cash shop, don't blow over $15 a month and you'll feel happy?
With the ridiculous amount of MMO's that have launched P2P, I would say most of them have gone F2P with some cash shopping. Why? Because the games simply suck, bad mechanics, shit end game, or just shit game to begin with or maybe because so many people have become jaded with what MMORPG's are anymore? Disillusioned as well? And I'd say the OP is disillusioned if he feels a P2P game is equaling to quality or whatever else they may feel is associated with it, because its not.
You reap what you sow.
Apparently, you've never played Neverwinter then lol.
you win.
seriously.
they are blinded. but let them waste money on subs if they really think it's worth it to keep paying for a game that you already paid 60$ for.
box fee and expansions is the way to go. otherwise, you just like being scammed.
so it is better to play with burnt-out players that only stick with a game because they have a sub. becuase that is the flip side of your argument.
paying a sub to play with other people that are tired of the game but are only playing because they are 'paying a sub'. as opposed to playing with people just looking for a good time. video games are about fun, not finacial obligations...
That's like saying when you go to a buffet, you don't want to pay for others to eat shrimp because don't like shrimp. You pay the sub to get in the door. No one makes you raid and the raids would be there even if you weren't.
"Glad ESO will be subscription model, so I can support the developers before coming here a month after the launch and making a wall of text on how this game brings nothing new to the table and is as boring as any other mmo out there in the market right now"
Fixed that for you.
I am really interested in knowing which game you possibly played where you need to buy access to regions. Or even a game which forcefully pops up a window telling the deals of the day as soon as you login. You actually sound like you have never played a F2P MMO.
And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.
LOTRO for the unlocking of regions and EQ/EQ2 for deals of the day.Idk, i used to really like the sub model, but now im kinda wanted a b2p/f2p hybrid.
When you think about the sub model these days, you really don't see much return on your payments in the way of content and such. I mean look at the WoW cycle of content, months without meaningful content.
Seems to reason, you could buy a box, don't pay a sub, but buy content in installments or DLC so your guaranteed your money is going straight into the content you want.
Of course the problem is companies wont settle for that, they want to nickle and dime you for all the small things as well, bagslots, cosmetics, boosters...
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
No it's actually more like if shrimp was included in my bill, even though i don't like shrimp.
this is the only way that it should work.
anything else is a scam. whether cash shop or sub fee.
[quote] Originally posted by Zairu [quote] [b]paying a sub to play with other people that are tired of the game but are only playing because they are 'paying a sub'. as opposed to playing with people just looking for a good time. video games are about fun, not finacial obligations...[/quote]
Oh...you mean like WoW players....
People like me WANT a sub game if it goes back to when people that liked/loved a game are paying to play it and not a bunch of bored kids creating a character to...well, as like bored kids.
all i learned from these compariosn is that it is a waste of time to use pointless comparisons.
it is not food. it is not pop music. if you can't hold a debate using pure subject matter relevant to the debate, then you have no reason to speak about said debate.
This is what you don't get. Shrimp are NOT included. You pay the price to try what you want. No one made you pay for any one item. You get to sample what you want. Not really getting why you think you are paying for what others do.
yes. i DO mean WOW players.
not sure how you thought that pointing that out actually helped the 'pro-subs' debate.
your second comment is just assuming that everyone will 'love' a game just because it is sub based, OR! - that somehow games are going back to some golden age that will offer you an experince of unending 'love'. (purely subjective to each person)
I could say the very same thing for b2p and f2p that you some how think are an inferior way to spend your money.
I'll only pay for a game as long as I'm enjoying it. The minute I don't enjoy it anymore /unsub.
Wasting time playing a game you're not enjoying just because it's free seems like the idiotic thing to me.
I don't play a persistent MMO to "win". I play it to enjoy myself. $15 a month is pretty cheap for something that really keeps me entertained. 1 cent a month is too expensive for something that doesn't.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Paying for something each month when you could possibly get the same entertainment for free or cheaper is stupid. If an mmo wants to justify a monthly sub then it has to be much better than the mmo's that are free. At this point in time p2p is not any better than f2p mmo's. They are all the bloody same game.