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Are games becoming too refined?
LittleBoot
Member Posts: 326
It is a process that has been ongoing for some time, in both single player games and mmo's. Each new game tries to refine the features in its predecessors; with the result that less attention/input/engagement is required from the player. The problem is that (imo) this process has gone too far in many games, they have chipped and chipped away until the nose fell off. In the process many of the aspects that made games fun have been lost and many of the changes have become entirely immersion breaking.
As some examples I would note any of the Bioware third instalments in the single player market or features in mmo's such as all-pervasive fast travel which make any sort of open world entirely redundant.
I can almost imagine future games where we passively watch our character autonomously working its way through levels.
Comments
Refinement: the process of removing impurities or unwanted elements from a substance.
Thats one definition, that generally refers to removing things that are unwanted.
So the refining of MMO's should be a good thing according to that definiton.
Now here is the problem.
No one in the community can decide on what those unwanted elements are.
Hence you get a mishmash of substances that no one really wants or a substance that might appeal to some but not others.
The only sure thing is that MMO's will probably continue to be refined until..... finally someone discovers that substance we have all been looking for!
--mmorpginium!--
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Is this happening to MMOs? No.
Is it happening to the EQ/WOW-style iterations on the level-based, class-restricted gear-chasing fantasy theme? Seems so.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Apparently we have a refinement of the definition of an MMO.
Loktofeit has removed the unwanted: EQ/WOW-style iterations on the level-based, class-restricted gear-chasing fantasy theme.
We shall call this new substance : Loktofeitium!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Yup thats it exactly. Now some of that simplification could be considering refinement if you consider corpse runs a waste of time.
If you like corpse runs, then it is oversimplification.
There is the refinement side/ Casual and there is the oversimplification side/ Hardcore.
And never the two shall meet.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
By the way, refining in terms of MMOs could mean getting rid of aspects that are unwanted... at the time. I definitely think there can be too much streamlining in a lot of things. Some common examples are instance matching and auction houses. They're supposed to get rid of tedium and annoyances but for a lot of us it has taken away from the social aspect of games.
I think you need to brace yourself for the possibility that this sort of passive subgenre will be a real thing.
Passive consumption of television and esports is a real thing. And at some point live-simulated personal content will be a real thing.
Gaute Godager:
sometimes it's great to just have a great steak and a glass of good wine.
EQ2 fan sites
It's not a refinement, but that style of MMO is definitely a subset. You disagree?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It tends to happen in RPG series. Making things more "refined" at the cost it seems of the soul of the game. It seems like an impossible task at times. Your like yeah I can see why they don't want a bunch of useless skills but at the cost having real choice in your characters direction seems to happen.
In MMO's its more streamlined ways to progress because the treadmill of leveling has been beating to death and players get bored, especially after the first time through.
I think there are already games like that out there. Not like there was any effort to gaming in the first place. Ouch, I think I sprained an index!
I don't think the term "MMO" needs to have any more implicit expectations piled on it. EQ and WoW are definitely MMOs.
As for the topic, everyone has a certain comfort level for streamlining. Sometimes its too much, sometimes its too little, sometimes it is just right. It is good to trim off the fat as long as you don't cut the meat. Generally, older games had tons of "fat" in them.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
How did refinement work for Bethesda? You liked Skyrim, didn't you?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
The definition is fine but your conclusion is incorrect. Take the music industry as an example. A lot of bands release their first album and they are very raw and unrefined. A lot of times these are the best albums they ever release. As their music gets more refined and goes through more and more production it ends up sounding more like everything else that is out there and tends to lose a lot of the raw emotion that made them popular in the first place. By the 3rd or 4th album most musicians are too refined and their songs aren't as good.
A lot of MMORPG seem to refine theymselves by making them more like everything else out there and that is not a good thing at all.
Two things are true of bands: -
Exactly. Being refined and copying/parroting, time pressure, loss of emotion are different things. They may be happening at the same time but I would argue that one is not being caused by the other. I would argue that if the debut songs were both full of emotion and refined they would be even bigger hits.
As far as games go IMO it is the same thing. The games may be being refined but they are not losing things because of this refinement, they are losing thngs (assuming this is occuring at all) because there is a different focus and different pressures - that could be a different audience, different goals...
The two are just occuring at the same time.
Yes I liked Skyrim. But i think it lost its soul in many ways. Less dialog, factions/guilds meaning less, less skills/enchantments/spells. The story didn't really change much based on what you did nor did the world react much. But there was still considerable gaming to be done and combat was generallly better.
I do believe that there are games like that already. Though they are not MMO's. And I think that's like FF12. I remember playing FF12...wait...no...I remember watching FF12 play itself...? Well not exactly since during the early parts of the game you actually have to do some stuff but in the long run you can end up just watching your characters fight.
Those huge dev companies I think keep on trying to appeal to more and more audiences...and exaggerating that to even younger and younger people...and perhaps...babies??? Whew...hopefully not. I guess this is one of the many reasons indie games deserve more attention than they get.
Another example is the Bioshock series. A lot of streamlining has taken place over those 3 games and while Infinite is gorgeous aesthetically and has a compelling story, it's definitely suffering from the same "loss of soul" that you're talking about. Same with the resident evil series.
This. Perfect. Post.
Nicely said.
I've experienced "refinements" where the things removed were, in my perspective, positives about the game. This led me to the conclusion that because of my tastes in game mechanics, I'm no longer in the target market. I'm learning to accept this.
I don't think the refinement process is arbitrary. I think designers have a very good idea on who they are catering to. It just doesn't happen to be me. :-)
There are some updates from games when I think whether they are catering to gamers or some other market entirely. I've seen some bad updates before...well...bad for me at least and some good updates as well.
Sometimes I even refuse to update some programs I got because I see in some forums about that said update causing even more problem that before. And if the program I'm using is working fine then i don't see any purpose on updating it unless they make it so that when there's a new update they make the program work bonkers to force you to update...like a time limit of some sort. >.<