I believe there is. Pathfinder Online is promising pretty much everything the OP wants and I'm looking forward to playing it. There is an "if you build it they will come" factor here. People don't always know they want something until they are offered it in an attractive package. First company to launch a mature sandbox which isn't bug-ridden and does what it says on the tin will have a hit on their hands. Look at what EVE does with a 10 year old game which is even more niche in design than it absolutely needs to be.
It's a logical fallacy to think most people play WoW clones because the WoW clone design is more brilliant than any other way to design an MMO. They play those games because that's pretty much what's out there. It doesn't mean they wouldn't play something completely different if given an opportunity. All that's needed is a competent company willing to take a big risk.
at the age of 32-50 who are just waiting for the next mmo they can be hooked to. I grew up with UO, EQ1 and DAOC and it was the most fun I had in computer gaming.
Those players still exist…. okay they might be fathers and moms by now, but they still seek the right game and they still frown daily when watching the mmorpg.com news with a lot of unimportant games coming out with no soul.
We are still looking for the following:
-social gameplay, guild life, communication
-open world
-risk
-reward
-epic quests that last months
-teamwork
-epic battles
-good fantasy stuff that is not comic or cute
-meaningfull pvp
-crafting and markets
-roleplaying
-epic items should be that: EPIC
what we DONT want:
-rushing
-kiddies
-pay 2 win and all that (i.e. 5 different ingame currencies)
-instances and zoning all 2minutes… come on we have almost 2014… our computers should make it.
This is just a headsup for all the DEVS planing new games. You can earn money with a serious game with mature people, trust me!
All you Moms and Dads shout out here!!!
Wushu man. Seriously, from guild life, to risk reward all the way to no rushing. A person can say what they want, but they can't say Wushu doesn't have the highlighted in abundance. 2 ingame currencies though
Originally posted by Bladestrom Few thousand forgrim? You should calculate exactly how many players there are over the age of 25, it's a he'll of a lot more than a few million.
Why would I calculate all mmo players over the age of 25? Those numbers are irrelevant to the discussion. I'm calculating the small number of gamers, regardless of age, who would still want to play an old-school style of mmo. That's what a game developer would be looking at if they were considering making that type of game now.
And that's effectively nobody. The number of people who want to play an old-school game is considerably less than 1% of the total MMO marketplace. Most people who used to play old-school MMOs have either stopped playing entirely or have simply changed their minds and like the way modern MMOs play. Game developers know this, that's why you see no AAA old-school games.
Yeah, this same research proved that no one would make a AAA Sandbox ever again also. Didn't you get the memo?
We'll have to see how it goes in practice, won't we? Even if it falls flat on it's face, you'll have the sandbox advocates continuing to call for more sandboxes, even though sandboxes tend to fail.
Just as themeparks fail...Sandboxes were not being made AAA, so a AAA themepark verse a indie sandbox was never a good comparison in the first place. Themepark does not shield you from failure, just gives you more people to try to get your small percentage from.
No and there was a reason there weren't AAA sandboxes being made, they just are not as popular as themeparks. We know themeparks make money, that's why there are so many of them made. 90% of every new business, regardless of the industry, fails in the first year. We have many examples of themeparks that survive considerably beyond that threshold. We have very few examples of sandboxes that do so.
Compared to what? There has been only two and they were petty much one the same levels as the average theme park excluding WoW.
Originally posted by Quizzical Why do you use "mature" to mean "agrees with your personal game design preferences"?
Same thing I was thinking.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Few thousand forgrim? You should calculate exactly how many players there are over the age of 25, it's a he'll of a lot more than a few million.
Why would I calculate all mmo players over the age of 25? Those numbers are irrelevant to the discussion. I'm calculating the small number of gamers, regardless of age, who would still want to play an old-school style of mmo. That's what a game developer would be looking at if they were considering making that type of game now.
And that's effectively nobody. The number of people who want to play an old-school game is considerably less than 1% of the total MMO marketplace. Most people who used to play old-school MMOs have either stopped playing entirely or have simply changed their minds and like the way modern MMOs play. Game developers know this, that's why you see no AAA old-school games.
Yeah, this same research proved that no one would make a AAA Sandbox ever again also. Didn't you get the memo?
We'll have to see how it goes in practice, won't we? Even if it falls flat on it's face, you'll have the sandbox advocates continuing to call for more sandboxes, even though sandboxes tend to fail.
Just as themeparks fail...Sandboxes were not being made AAA, so a AAA themepark verse a indie sandbox was never a good comparison in the first place. Themepark does not shield you from failure, just gives you more people to try to get your small percentage from.
No and there was a reason there weren't AAA sandboxes being made, they just are not as popular as themeparks. We know themeparks make money, that's why there are so many of them made. 90% of every new business, regardless of the industry, fails in the first year. We have many examples of themeparks that survive considerably beyond that threshold. We have very few examples of sandboxes that do so.
That is the conventional wisdom, but I am not too sold on it. I don't see much of anything truly fail anymore, I am sure their is, but not a lot comes to mind. The market has grown so big that even mediocre titles can hook that small percentage of people that are willing to pay to keep the title going, even if 90-95% of the rest of the people game jump.
Those that do fail, generally has more to do with incompetence, than the model imo. A mmo could target probably 0.1% of the market and make it if it was made well....Not like someone would do that, but they could.
I haven't touched any pc games since my Xbox One got here and quite honestly pc mmos have been a complete disaster. The next pc game I'll play will be Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls and Star Citizen.
I believe there is. Pathfinder Online is promising pretty much everything the OP wants and I'm looking forward to playing it. There is an "if you build it they will come" factor here. People don't always know they want something until they are offered it in an attractive package. First company to launch a mature sandbox which isn't bug-ridden and does what it says on the tin will have a hit on their hands. Look at what EVE does with a 10 year old game which is even more niche in design than it absolutely needs to be.
It's a logical fallacy to think most people play WoW clones because the WoW clone design is more brilliant than any other way to design an MMO. They play those games because that's pretty much what's out there. It doesn't mean they wouldn't play something completely different if given an opportunity. All that's needed is a competent company willing to take a big risk.
I get tired of people saying the taste of the gamers dictacte that WoW clones be made. No most gamers came in with WoW and 90% AAA tried to emulate WoW.
WoW wasn't just a hit because it was a themepark. It was polished, playable, easy to follow MMORPG with a big IP and cult like fanbase.
When the Walking Dead launched, the major networks saw it as nothing. Their research did suggest that type of show had an audience. Then the show grew and grew. They tried to say it was a passing fad and that it wouldn't last. It grew and grew and continues to grow. They actually had a couple execs from other major networks say they were confused as to why this show was working because their research said that a show had to 1) have a major star in it and 2) needed to be a procedural such as a cop drama/comedy. They put so much faith into their market research that even when something is doing well because it directly went for a side audience that producers weren't sure how big it was, that they can't wrap their head around it.
The market research isn't completely wrong. A detective show is the most desired show in the US currently. The problem is that there are at least 12 of them. If there was only 1 detective show it would by far and large be the most watched show on television. But with it spread out over so many (some competing on the same night or same time slots) they are all brought down. There are still successful ones for sure. But new ones will of course struggle because it is so flooded (like theme park MMOs).
For TV there are at least some people who realize this. AMC network came out of nowhere by targeting the audiences no one else was with shows like Mad Men, The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad. Netflix nailed some immediate home runs by making shows such as House of Cards and Orange is the New Black instead of going with a cop, lawyer, or other over done category. A few years ago Hollywood would have laughed off most of these ideas. But people realizing that when you have a global population of over 7 billion and a US population of over 330 million means that niche is actually quite large, has changed the game. HBO is of course another great example.
This is where the MMO industry (and kind of all gaming) hasn't caught up yet. Yes, if you took all of the MMO gamers and did a detailed poll on what they want, a quicker, easier, more casual, theme park MMO would be hands down the top of the charts. The problem is there there are a TON of those all trying to get a piece of that market which makes MOST of them do poorly. Breaking out of that mold and targeting some of the side groups where there is little to no competition currently is actually the far smarter solution. However, game companies are stuck in copy the leader mode and are hurting themselves.
Sorry to shit in your cereal, but The Walking Dead is a very overrated show. Its a Zombie soap opera. Nothing new here, move along sir.
When the Walking Dead launched, the major networks saw it as nothing. Their research did suggest that type of show had an audience. Then the show grew and grew. They tried to say it was a passing fad and that it wouldn't last. It grew and grew and continues to grow. They actually had a couple execs from other major networks say they were confused as to why this show was working because their research said that a show had to 1) have a major star in it and 2) needed to be a procedural such as a cop drama/comedy. They put so much faith into their market research that even when something is doing well because it directly went for a side audience that producers weren't sure how big it was, that they can't wrap their head around it.
The market research isn't completely wrong. A detective show is the most desired show in the US currently. The problem is that there are at least 12 of them. If there was only 1 detective show it would by far and large be the most watched show on television. But with it spread out over so many (some competing on the same night or same time slots) they are all brought down. There are still successful ones for sure. But new ones will of course struggle because it is so flooded (like theme park MMOs).
For TV there are at least some people who realize this. AMC network came out of nowhere by targeting the audiences no one else was with shows like Mad Men, The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad. Netflix nailed some immediate home runs by making shows such as House of Cards and Orange is the New Black instead of going with a cop, lawyer, or other over done category. A few years ago Hollywood would have laughed off most of these ideas. But people realizing that when you have a global population of over 7 billion and a US population of over 330 million means that niche is actually quite large, has changed the game. HBO is of course another great example.
This is where the MMO industry (and kind of all gaming) hasn't caught up yet. Yes, if you took all of the MMO gamers and did a detailed poll on what they want, a quicker, easier, more casual, theme park MMO would be hands down the top of the charts. The problem is there there are a TON of those all trying to get a piece of that market which makes MOST of them do poorly. Breaking out of that mold and targeting some of the side groups where there is little to no competition currently is actually the far smarter solution. However, game companies are stuck in copy the leader mode and are hurting themselves.
Sorry to shit in your cereal, but The Walking Dead is a very overrated show. Its a Zombie soap opera. Nothing new here, move along sir.
I agree, that's why, after struggling through the last two seasons, I finally just dropped it this year. It's not a zombie show, it's a show that just so happens to have zombies shuffle by occasionally.
Originally posted by Lonzoat the age of 32-50 who are just waiting for the next mmo they can be hooked to. I grew up with UO, EQ1 and DAOC and it was the most fun I had in computer gaming.Those players still exist…. okay they might be fathers and moms by now, but they still seek the right game and they still frown daily when watching the mmorpg.com news with a lot of unimportant games coming out with no soul.We are still looking for the following:-social gameplay, guild life, communication-open world-risk-reward-epic quests that last months-teamwork-epic battles-good fantasy stuff that is not comic or cute-meaningfull pvp-crafting and markets-roleplaying-epic items should be that: EPICwhat we DONT want:-rushing-kiddies-pay 2 win and all that (i.e. 5 different ingame currencies)-instances and zoning all 2minutes… come on we have almost 2014… our computers should make it.This is just a headsup for all the DEVS planing new games. You can earn money with a serious game with mature people, trust me!All you Moms and Dads shout out here!!!
great to see someone who knows what "1 million moms and dads" want! Amazing job. And so mature :P
The irony was not lost on me either.
To be clear, I am 42, so within your very broad age bracket. I do not however, agree with you...at all really.
We need kids to play games. They will grow up (much like we did) and some of them will go on to produce or be involved with the production of video games. Having, literally, life long experience in video games will most likely give them some really good ideas on how to make games better/more appealing. So, in short we not only want children, we need them to be playing games.
This isn't a 'heads up' to anyone, it is a collection of rambling barely coherent thoughts, that are of no real consequence, other than the one I addressed directly above. Feel free to express yourself and speak about what YOU want, but please, leave the rest of us out of your shenanigans.
at the age of 32-50 who are just waiting for the next mmo they can be hooked to. I grew up with UO, EQ1 and DAOC and it was the most fun I had in computer gaming.
Those players still exist…. okay they might be fathers and moms by now, but they still seek the right game and they still frown daily when watching the mmorpg.com news with a lot of unimportant games coming out with no soul.
We are still looking for the following:
-social gameplay, guild life, communication
-open world
-risk
-reward
-epic quests that last months
-teamwork
-epic battles
-good fantasy stuff that is not comic or cute
-meaningfull pvp
-crafting and markets
-roleplaying
-epic items should be that: EPIC
what we DONT want:
-rushing
-kiddies
-pay 2 win and all that (i.e. 5 different ingame currencies)
-instances and zoning all 2minutes… come on we have almost 2014… our computers should make it.
This is just a headsup for all the DEVS planing new games. You can earn money with a serious game with mature people, trust me!
All you Moms and Dads shout out here!!!
There is a huge untapped market of players like us that either abandoned the industry or are settling for less til something worthy is released. I'd be happy with a cheap EQ classic knockoff at this point, somewhat modernized graphically.
A "clone"? :sign of the devil: I thought those were Evil . Or so we've been hearing for the last eight years.
There are communities that exists with the goal to find this game. I run Organized Chaos, consisting of approximately 70 players, mainly 25-45 and we are all in search for THE game. Most of the members are currently playing Darkfall Unholy Wars, which is the closest we can get so far, but there are a lot of interesting games on the market.
Feel free to contact me if you want to be part of us and search for a good game together
I see for years now topics here where people claim they started with UO thats where i stop reading and dont take any topic that claim have started with UO in '97 serious anymore. I just don't believe you all played UO in early years sorry.
Also im amazed and its beyond me you guys till think peole who played in old days are still the same and want old days back.
This will never happen old days will NEVER COMEBACK do some reality check pls its unrealistic thinking people from old days are same and those days can can come, they will not.
You can dream offcorse thats your right but i try crush it with reality:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Originally posted by Xssiv Unfortunately, most players who had 4-6 hours a night to play 10 - 15 years ago either don't have that kind of time anymore or simply realized that spending that much time playing a game is a waste. Most casual players I know actually used to be hardcore but simply don't want to put that kind of time into a game anymore. Most of us realized that spending 6 hours a night in a game was not healthy on many levels. Developers understand this trend which is why they continue to implement quality of life / casual focused features to keep the majority of players logging in, even if it's only a for a few hours a week. For those that still want to spend hours and hours each day grinding / farming / raiding / or whatever, I salute you but know that you are a dying breed.
In early days 200k people play mmo's? Ok let's say 500k around end of '99 around 3 mmo's of importends right EQ-AC-UO.
Other thing to concider is its was all so NEW so logic that old or young spending as much time in this phantasy world they for years dreamed about, but only experience to non internet games or series movies books and suddenly they could actually play it online with others.
Today how many mmo players around the globe 100million?
So dying breed don't thinks so i think still millions spending hours ingame playing mmo they love.
You few old first time geek mmo's playing UO-AC-EQ in 90s are marginal alot have changed sinds then:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I see for years now topics here where people claim they started with UO thats where i stop reading and dont take any topic that claim have started with UO in '97 serious anymore. I just don't believe you all played UO in early years sorry.
Also im amazed and its beyond me you guys till think peole who played in old days are still the same and want old days back.
This will never happen old days will NEVER COMEBACK do some reality check pls its unrealistic thinking people from old days are same and those days can can come, they will not.
You can dream offcorse thats your right but i try crush it with reality:P
I was willing to believe you, till you stated that you think everyone is a liar, which means you may not be above that yourself...So sorry, I cannot take you seriously.
I think the OP misunderstands what the mature gamer 32-50 actually wants.
1. The majority of whales driving pay 2 win are mature gamers who are 30+. They have jobs and make a LOT of money. It is not kiddies spending all this money. It is adults that would rather plunk down some cash to skip over grinds.
2. Most mature gamers are casual because they don't have time to spend 8 hours a day playing a game. At best they have an hour or two a night to do something. They want dungeon finders and solo content that they can do something quickly in a short sitting. They don't have time for 4 dungeon crawls or nightly raiding schedules.
3. It is bored college students and unemployed teens who drive the hardcore subscription market. Long grindy games with death penalties favor kiddies with nearly unlimited time to play games.
4. Most of the "old school" gamers from EQ1, DAOC, UO, etc disappeared from the market entirely. They got jobs, got families, and moved on with their lives. This leaves only a small unviable demographic of middle aged players who never figured out how to balance life with their gaming compulsion. The industry has rightfully shunned them.
I think alot of you people saying that my theory is wrong have no clue what the feeling of the early mmo days was to us players. A guild was a big bunch of friends.... The first Vox or Nagafen kill.... Enchanters who had to do crowd control 15+ mobs...This were superior game experiences... This was a challenge....
All the replies here in this thread prove that thhis topic is super hot. The game development is missing on the real mmo players... Those players are able to make your game a huge success, because it is those experianced players that lead the communities . The new players will follow those leaders. It is just human nature.
cater the next big mmo to the veterans and it will be successful! Never cater a game to the weak it drives people off....
I think alot of you people saying that my theory is wrong have no clue what the feeling of the early mmo days was to us players. A guild was a big bunch of friends.... The first Vox or Nagafen kill.... Enchanters who had to do crowd control 15+ mobs...This were superior game experiences... This was a challenge....
All the replies here in this thread prove that thhis topic is super hot. The game development is missing on the real mmo players... Those players are able to make your game a huge success, because it is those experianced players that lead the communities . The new players will follow those leaders. It is just human nature.
cater the next big mmo to the veterans and it will be successful! Never cater a game to the weak it drives people off....
Well, on these forums, it has always been a contested topic. And as you can see, today is no different.
And it's fine to remember what it was like, I was there, I'm 31 now. But I really doubt there's 1 million vets out there wishing for an old style game.
When WoW came out EQ was decimated as people jumped shipped immediately. That's a good portion of your vet population right there considering EQ was one of the big kids on the block with 490k subs at its peak.
There was recently a call to action (at least I would consider it such for self proclaimed vets and lovers of "real" mmos. Camelot Unchained released on kickstarter and asked for the vets support to make a spiritual successor to one of the most talked about and beloved games on this forum. What was the result? Did 1 million mature vets leap at the opportunity to support it? No.
Now, that's not to say that there might be a bigger crowd looking for an old school PvE mmo (CU is primarily for the PvP crowd) but there was someone saying, "I helped create the old school games, I have money, I have the team, I just need you to show up." If 200-300k people had supported CU, then I'd definitely believe that there's easily a million+ players looking for an old school type game. But 15k?
There are millions of people who don't bother telling the entire world what they want. I for example never use a game's (or product's) forum. If I enjoy the game, I keep paying/playing it. When they start making changes I don't like I just leave. I don't waste my time going to their forums trying to show that there are people who don't want those changes, I simply leave because it is a lot less hassle.
I like mature, intelligent, deep, TV shows. Almost none exist. I assure you there are millions of people who also like that. However, there are 10s of millions who like vapid, unoriginal, boring shows.
The problem is that no companies seem to realize that with the right budget, those niche audiences (which now a days niche often means a million or more) can be a profitable group to target. Instead all companies go for the same giant audience. That is why so few MMOs do well. They are all targeting the exact same group so they cannibalize each other.
Again a TV reference. You end up with 4 popular TV shows on a Tuesday night in the same time slot by different networks. All cannibalizing and fighting each other. Then Wednesday night rolls around and not one major popular show. Clearly one of those Tuesday popular shows could move to Wednesday and get a high number of viewers and make money. But the networks are so greedy they all fight over the absolute highest time slot instead of a single one of them going "Hey let's let those other 3 morons all fight over that one slot, causing them all to underperform, and we'll go grab the entirety of this other slot and do great".
That greed of every company always wanting to target that same big group means none of them target the plenty big enough side groups who are all looking to throw their money at something they want.
Vocal has nothing to do with it these days. It is all market research of what is the focus that the max number of customers is looking at.
The reality is niche done right can be incredibly profitable. The secret is to know your niche and do it well, and to manage costs, its really that simple.
I would also add that smaller niche products tend to have less risk because managed costs means less investment. Put it this way, say you make one major MMO for 100 million or you could make 5 small niche MMOs that cost 20 million. If you put all of your investment on the larger game, and it fails, your company can tank, however if you diversify your investment into smaller products and one fails, you can recoup that loss on the success of the other products. This is buisness 101, diversify. Another thing is, often uncatered niche markets because of their size and often loyal/adamant fan base, are easier to predict in regards to spending, and less flighty when it comes to longevity of audience/customers.
I think alot of you people saying that my theory is wrong have no clue what the feeling of the early mmo days was to us players. A guild was a big bunch of friends.... The first Vox or Nagafen kill.... Enchanters who had to do crowd control 15+ mobs...This were superior game experiences... This was a challenge....
All the replies here in this thread prove that thhis topic is super hot. The game development is missing on the real mmo players... Those players are able to make your game a huge success, because it is those experianced players that lead the communities . The new players will follow those leaders. It is just human nature.
cater the next big mmo to the veterans and it will be successful! Never cater a game to the weak it drives people off....
Well, on these forums, it has always been a contested topic. And as you can see, today is no different.
And it's fine to remember what it was like, I was there, I'm 31 now. But I really doubt there's 1 million vets out there wishing for an old style game.
When WoW came out EQ was decimated as people jumped shipped immediately. That's a good portion of your vet population right there considering EQ was one of the big kids on the block with 490k subs at its peak.
There was recently a call to action (at least I would consider it such for self proclaimed vets and lovers of "real" mmos. Camelot Unchained released on kickstarter and asked for the vets support to make a spiritual successor to one of the most talked about and beloved games on this forum. What was the result? Did 1 million mature vets leap at the opportunity to support it? No.
Now, that's not to say that there might be a bigger crowd looking for an old school PvE mmo (CU is primarily for the PvP crowd) but there was someone saying, "I helped create the old school games, I have money, I have the team, I just need you to show up." If 200-300k people had supported CU, then I'd definitely believe that there's easily a million+ players looking for an old school type game. But 15k?
Alot of people dont bother kickstart projects like myself. I dont want to create a game, I want to play it. There were tines when companies took some money and risk it.
Comments
I believe there is. Pathfinder Online is promising pretty much everything the OP wants and I'm looking forward to playing it. There is an "if you build it they will come" factor here. People don't always know they want something until they are offered it in an attractive package. First company to launch a mature sandbox which isn't bug-ridden and does what it says on the tin will have a hit on their hands. Look at what EVE does with a 10 year old game which is even more niche in design than it absolutely needs to be.
It's a logical fallacy to think most people play WoW clones because the WoW clone design is more brilliant than any other way to design an MMO. They play those games because that's pretty much what's out there. It doesn't mean they wouldn't play something completely different if given an opportunity. All that's needed is a competent company willing to take a big risk.
Wushu man. Seriously, from guild life, to risk reward all the way to no rushing. A person can say what they want, but they can't say Wushu doesn't have the highlighted in abundance. 2 ingame currencies though
Compared to what? There has been only two and they were petty much one the same levels as the average theme park excluding WoW.
Same thing I was thinking.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
That is the conventional wisdom, but I am not too sold on it. I don't see much of anything truly fail anymore, I am sure their is, but not a lot comes to mind. The market has grown so big that even mediocre titles can hook that small percentage of people that are willing to pay to keep the title going, even if 90-95% of the rest of the people game jump.
Those that do fail, generally has more to do with incompetence, than the model imo. A mmo could target probably 0.1% of the market and make it if it was made well....Not like someone would do that, but they could.
I get tired of people saying the taste of the gamers dictacte that WoW clones be made. No most gamers came in with WoW and 90% AAA tried to emulate WoW.
WoW wasn't just a hit because it was a themepark. It was polished, playable, easy to follow MMORPG with a big IP and cult like fanbase.
Sorry to shit in your cereal, but The Walking Dead is a very overrated show. Its a Zombie soap opera. Nothing new here, move along sir.
I agree, that's why, after struggling through the last two seasons, I finally just dropped it this year. It's not a zombie show, it's a show that just so happens to have zombies shuffle by occasionally.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
+ 1
A "clone"? :sign of the devil: I thought those were Evil
. Or so we've been hearing for the last eight years.
There are communities that exists with the goal to find this game. I run Organized Chaos, consisting of approximately 70 players, mainly 25-45 and we are all in search for THE game. Most of the members are currently playing Darkfall Unholy Wars, which is the closest we can get so far, but there are a lot of interesting games on the market.
Feel free to contact me if you want to be part of us and search for a good game together
Cheers
I see for years now topics here where people claim they started with UO thats where i stop reading and dont take any topic that claim have started with UO in '97 serious anymore. I just don't believe you all played UO in early years sorry.
Also im amazed and its beyond me you guys till think peole who played in old days are still the same and want old days back.
This will never happen old days will NEVER COMEBACK do some reality check pls its unrealistic thinking people from old days are same and those days can can come, they will not.
You can dream offcorse thats your right but i try crush it with reality:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
I want hardcore but I'm willing to pay for softcore
get what you pay for
EQ2 fan sites
In early days 200k people play mmo's? Ok let's say 500k around end of '99 around 3 mmo's of importends right EQ-AC-UO.
Other thing to concider is its was all so NEW so logic that old or young spending as much time in this phantasy world they for years dreamed about, but only experience to non internet games or series movies books and suddenly they could actually play it online with others.
Today how many mmo players around the globe 100million?
So dying breed don't thinks so i think still millions spending hours ingame playing mmo they love.
You few old first time geek mmo's playing UO-AC-EQ in 90s are marginal alot have changed sinds then:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
I was willing to believe you, till you stated that you think everyone is a liar, which means you may not be above that yourself...So sorry, I cannot take you seriously.
I think the OP misunderstands what the mature gamer 32-50 actually wants.
1. The majority of whales driving pay 2 win are mature gamers who are 30+. They have jobs and make a LOT of money. It is not kiddies spending all this money. It is adults that would rather plunk down some cash to skip over grinds.
2. Most mature gamers are casual because they don't have time to spend 8 hours a day playing a game. At best they have an hour or two a night to do something. They want dungeon finders and solo content that they can do something quickly in a short sitting. They don't have time for 4 dungeon crawls or nightly raiding schedules.
3. It is bored college students and unemployed teens who drive the hardcore subscription market. Long grindy games with death penalties favor kiddies with nearly unlimited time to play games.
4. Most of the "old school" gamers from EQ1, DAOC, UO, etc disappeared from the market entirely. They got jobs, got families, and moved on with their lives. This leaves only a small unviable demographic of middle aged players who never figured out how to balance life with their gaming compulsion. The industry has rightfully shunned them.
I think this picture sums things up.
I think alot of you people saying that my theory is wrong have no clue what the feeling of the early mmo days was to us players. A guild was a big bunch of friends.... The first Vox or Nagafen kill.... Enchanters who had to do crowd control 15+ mobs...This were superior game experiences... This was a challenge....
All the replies here in this thread prove that thhis topic is super hot. The game development is missing on the real mmo players... Those players are able to make your game a huge success, because it is those experianced players that lead the communities . The new players will follow those leaders. It is just human nature.
cater the next big mmo to the veterans and it will be successful! Never cater a game to the weak it drives people off....
Well, on these forums, it has always been a contested topic. And as you can see, today is no different.
And it's fine to remember what it was like, I was there, I'm 31 now. But I really doubt there's 1 million vets out there wishing for an old style game.
When WoW came out EQ was decimated as people jumped shipped immediately. That's a good portion of your vet population right there considering EQ was one of the big kids on the block with 490k subs at its peak.
There was recently a call to action (at least I would consider it such for self proclaimed vets and lovers of "real" mmos. Camelot Unchained released on kickstarter and asked for the vets support to make a spiritual successor to one of the most talked about and beloved games on this forum. What was the result? Did 1 million mature vets leap at the opportunity to support it? No.
14,873 people supported it. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
That's just 985,127 short of a million.
Now, that's not to say that there might be a bigger crowd looking for an old school PvE mmo (CU is primarily for the PvP crowd) but there was someone saying, "I helped create the old school games, I have money, I have the team, I just need you to show up." If 200-300k people had supported CU, then I'd definitely believe that there's easily a million+ players looking for an old school type game. But 15k?
Amen brother. I could not agree more.
I dont know how many times I have to post this on these forums: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7161-Perfect-Pasta-Sauce
The reality is niche done right can be incredibly profitable. The secret is to know your niche and do it well, and to manage costs, its really that simple.
I would also add that smaller niche products tend to have less risk because managed costs means less investment. Put it this way, say you make one major MMO for 100 million or you could make 5 small niche MMOs that cost 20 million. If you put all of your investment on the larger game, and it fails, your company can tank, however if you diversify your investment into smaller products and one fails, you can recoup that loss on the success of the other products. This is buisness 101, diversify. Another thing is, often uncatered niche markets because of their size and often loyal/adamant fan base, are easier to predict in regards to spending, and less flighty when it comes to longevity of audience/customers.
Alot of people dont bother kickstart projects like myself. I dont want to create a game, I want to play it. There were tines when companies took some money and risk it.