it shouldn't be EQN vs Cryengine, but Lightforge Engine vs Cryengine.
You could use Voxel with CryEngine too. but then it would only high res blocks. nothing more.
CryEngine is great for high res and high Polygon things. but i wonder how big zones and how many players can be on one at the same time.
LightForge Engine on the other hand was build to make many players on the same time in a seamless world, with good graphics still.
I could nearly bet that EQN will have a seamless world,without zoning and the possibility to have hundred or even thousand players at the same time in the same area.(examples of past who failed it : GW2, FF14, Neverwinter).
Someone said that EQNext graphics are on par with recent MMO.
I disagree.
EQNext is somewhere between the era of WoW and 2013, but it's not even in the ballpark of recent MMO.
EQN graphics is like a HD WoW mixed with Disney, it's nowhere near close to CryEngine graphics.
FYI, Black Desert Online (last picture you linked) is not using CryEngine, Pearl Abyss made their own engine for BDO.
The MMO's which are/will use CryEngine3+: ArcheAge, Kingdom Under Fire II, Bless, Icarus, Warface, Monster Hunter Online, Revival, Civilization Online...
Oh by the way everyone who is saying cartoony graphics suck need to play Brothers: A tale of two sons. If you after that still think cartoony graphics suck then... well I guess it's a matter of taste.
It's one of the most beautiful games I've ever played and if an MMO would look like that it would be the most beautiful MMO in history, probably for a long, long time.
Oh by the way everyone who is saying cartoony graphics suck need to play Brothers: A tale of two sons. If you after that still think cartoony graphics suck then... well I guess it's a matter of taste.
It has always been a matter of taste when it comes to the player, I personally enjoy games with cartoon graphics a lot more, especially in RPGs where it just make you feel in another world.
Also, going with stylized Pixar graphics have many advantage for the developers in term of time it takes to make models and textures, hardware scaling and aging (realistic graphics needs constant upgrade, cartoons looks like cartoon, you can upgrade them once in a while, but they don't require the same amount of upgrades as realistic games do).
And in just 5 years we will laugh our asses off at the Cryengine graphics, while the EQNext graphics still look fine.
You mean while the EQNext graphics still look 10 years old? Seeing how they already look 5 years old now. This whole stylized graphics age better talking point is complete and utter bullshit. Wildstar and EQN look dated before they have even launched.
Don't bother buying a high end video card just for this game as the game will only use the dx9 features of the card and the rest will sit idle. You will just waste money.
I really hope this is not true for a game being launched in 2014.
you know, i hate to interject in yet another one of these oh, so much fun, graphics debates, but, you all are crying about various stages of cartoony.
wildstar: cartoony, WoW:cartoony,EQN:cartoony, think about it, theres at least another half dozen games that will have cartoony.
its the gameplay that should matter, not the g-dammned graphics,
you give me a game that has substance, the graphics wont matter.
I think in this thread its more about the quality and not about the cartoony part of EQN, i mean even games which are 5 years old are playable on DX10.
And I guess soon theres DX12, how can a game graphicly survive the next years which doesnt support new technologies.
I'll take a voxel based world with stylized graphics over a static world any day, regardless of how good its graphics are. Besides, photo realistic graphics on an mmo never work out how they are supposed to and never actually look real.
question: an you get the same fidelity to detail in a voxel based, "players can create, change anything" game that you can with a game that has the level of detail of those other pictures?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
And in just 5 years we will laugh our asses off at the Cryengine graphics, while the EQNext graphics still look fine.
You mean while the EQNext graphics still look 10 years old? Seeing how they already look 5 years old now. This whole stylized graphics age better talking point is complete and utter bullshit. Wildstar and EQN look dated before they have even launched.
You can keep claiming that as much as you like, but I'll still take WoW's graphics over EQ2's graphics today. You can keep wishing for your realistic graphics and/or hopping from the newest "realistic" graphics MMO to the next.
Originally posted by Sovrath question: an you get the same fidelity to detail in a voxel based, "players can create, change anything" game that you can with a game that has the level of detail of those other pictures?
Well you just answered the question that's been bothering hardware manufacturers for quite some time... How to get the players to buy new hardware? Nowadays technical aspects of graphics are not as important as they used to be. Basically, no one NEEDS graphics much better than what we have today on better class rigs in order to better enjoy games. Wii blew competing consoles out of the water in spite of inferior graphics - it is gameplay that matters, allways. The graphics are there only to serve gameplay.
So, I'll look in my Crystal Ball (tm) and predict: We are to see a huge new wave of voxel based games with new and exciting gameplay concepts. Since voxel-based graphics demand much much more processing power and memory than classical highly optimized engines in order to produce an equivalent level of graphical fidelity, we now create an exciting new horizon, a goal we (and our buyers) can pursue for years to come - a system which can run voxel based engines on the level of realism and fidelity compared to the one already achieved by vertex-based ones. (i think that's the proper term).
TL;DR: PS4 is a bork. It brings nothing truly new to the table unlike the first PS which offered true 3D graphics on a console for the masses. A PS5, which could conceivably integrate a high resolution hardware-based voxel engine (high resolution as in high voxel resolution, not just plain old pixel one), complete with realistic physics might just do the trick.
And in just 5 years we will laugh our asses off at the Cryengine graphics, while the EQNext graphics still look fine.
You mean while the EQNext graphics still look 10 years old? Seeing how they already look 5 years old now. This whole stylized graphics age better talking point is complete and utter bullshit. Wildstar and EQN look dated before they have even launched.
You can keep claiming that as much as you like, but I'll still take WoW's graphics over EQ2's graphics today. You can keep wishing for your realistic graphics and/or hopping from the newest "realistic" graphics MMO to the next.
And thats fine. You can like w/e you want to. But dont hide behind that asinine argument. Dated is dated. regardless if its realistic or stylized. However, newer games that are coming down the pike like EQN and Wildstar are launching dated. Looking just like games that came out 5 6 even 7 years ago.
And i dont have to "wish" for anything. Those game are being made as i post this. While other games like BD, Repop and AA are taking advantage of the technology they have and are delivering amazing looking worlds. Worlds that are so realistic that you can just loose yourself in them without knowing it.
And i dont game hope. Dont lump me up with your typical MMOer with a d d of today. Im searching for a home. A MMO that has depth, charm and community. Traits that are missing from today's MMOs.
Originally posted by evilastro If you don't like the graphics then don't play the game. No one cares that you don't like the art style. People can make up their own minds whether they like it or not thanks.
Hey, this forum is THERE that we debate about what we like and don't like! Don't boss people around.
As to the OP: I am on the fence. I don't need photorealism, but some more details would do EQ:N good. Take the graphics of GW2 as example, it looks very lush and detailled without being photorealistic. I hope SOE does tune up their graphics a bit, yet.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by CalmOceans Someone said that EQNext graphics are on par with recent MMO.
I disagree.
EQNext is somewhere between the era of WoW and 2013, but it's not even in the ballpark of recent MMO.
VS
Its not really about the engine, Look at how those textures and models are produced there is so much more detail the artists have put into the latter you have posted.
While everquest next, still looks good, it has different art style which requires a lot less detail.
Mechanically, From what i have seen Lightforge can produce some great effects shading, filters, particles ect that can make ps2 look great on ultra settings. If they put the effort into making realistic looking assets you would have something 'close'.
The content is similar on these 2 pics which make it easier to distinguish between engine effects. almost look almost identical.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
And i dont have to "wish" for anything. Those game are being made as i post this. While other games like BD, Repop and AA are taking advantage of the technology they have and are delivering amazing looking worlds. Worlds that are so realistic that you can just loose yourself in them without knowing it.
If you claim the games being made today (much less MMOs) look realistic, you need to go out more often.
That's the problem with "realistic" graphics - they don't look realistic and once you go a couple years forward, they don't even look good anymore, compared to the new games launching then.
EDIT: I might explain my gripe with these "realistic" graphics a bit further. You talkes about loosing yourself into the game world. Here's the catch (for me). If the game has realistic graphics, everything that fights against that realism breaks the immersion. For example, EVE has gorgeus, realistic graphics, yet I lose my "suspense of disbelief" immediatly when I see ships sliding into each other and pivoting on a central point with zero inertia and mass.
With cartoony graphics I can forigive much more when it comes to little things like that. Stuff like animations, gear/clothing/hair clipping, etc.
You know I haven't even mentioned that the game isn't even outside of "Friends and Family Alpha" yet. I know because I bought in to both the Alpha and the Beta and I'm not in yet. So you're comparing a game (very poorly I might add) to a bunch of games that have been in development or are even close to release in Korea for a long time now.
To me, those images look great.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
As to the OP: I am on the fence. I don't need photorealism, but some more details would do EQ:N good. Take the graphics of GW2 as example, it looks very lush and detailled without being photorealistic. I hope SOE does tune up their graphics a bit, yet.
If it means that with the added detail comes the horrible culling that GW2 has, I'll rather take the simpler models any day.
And i dont have to "wish" for anything. Those game are being made as i post this. While other games like BD, Repop and AA are taking advantage of the technology they have and are delivering amazing looking worlds. Worlds that are so realistic that you can just loose yourself in them without knowing it.
If you claim the games being made today (much less MMOs) look realistic, you need to go out more often.
That's the problem with "realistic" graphics - they don't look realistic and once you go a couple years forward, they don't even look good anymore, compared to the new games launching then.
EDIT: I might explain my gripe with these "realistic" graphics a bit further. You talkes about loosing yourself into the game world. Here's the catch (for me). If the game has realistic graphics, everything that fights against that realism breaks the immersion. For example, EVE has gorgeus, realistic graphics, yet I lose my "suspense of disbelief" immediatly when I see ships sliding into each other and pivoting on a central point with zero inertia and mass.
With cartoony graphics I can forigive much more when it comes to little things like that. Stuff like animations, gear/clothing/hair clipping, etc.
I refer you to the Bless trailer that was just posted in this thread. It seems to me like your the one that needs to go out more often.
Realistic graphics dont look realistic? I dont even know what top say to this. As realistic as a MMO could get i guess. Not photo realism but realism for a mmo? they are starting to get very real.
As for your personal preference for immersion? That cant be deputed. your tastes are yours and thats fine. But as for me its not. Its like saying you cant get immersed in say Star Wars because there is no way there could be a fat slug creature talking to a guy that is the captain of a ship that can travel through space with a first mate who is 9 ft tall. Thats just silly. So you cant immerse yourself in the atmosphere and the story. I feel sorry for you if thats the case.
Realistic (for me) will always top stylized. And those games are being made right now.
Comments
it shouldn't be EQN vs Cryengine, but Lightforge Engine vs Cryengine.
You could use Voxel with CryEngine too. but then it would only high res blocks. nothing more.
CryEngine is great for high res and high Polygon things. but i wonder how big zones and how many players can be on one at the same time.
LightForge Engine on the other hand was build to make many players on the same time in a seamless world, with good graphics still.
I could nearly bet that EQN will have a seamless world,without zoning and the possibility to have hundred or even thousand players at the same time in the same area.(examples of past who failed it : GW2, FF14, Neverwinter).
Short answer:
CryEnigne: Awesome Look, small-medium Zones, few-some Players.
Lightforge Engine: Good Look, Huge Zones, massively amount of Players
For an real MMO i think the Lightforge engine is the better Engine. CryEngine for MultiplayerGame
EQN graphics is like a HD WoW mixed with Disney, it's nowhere near close to CryEngine graphics.
FYI, Black Desert Online (last picture you linked) is not using CryEngine, Pearl Abyss made their own engine for BDO.
The MMO's which are/will use CryEngine3+: ArcheAge, Kingdom Under Fire II, Bless, Icarus, Warface, Monster Hunter Online, Revival, Civilization Online...
i agree it's probably a future can of worms
EQ2 fan sites
You obviously haven't been looking then, ArcheAge is more than just shiny graphics when it comes to using the CryEngine 3.
Just a small demo but you can see more in the youtube link.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=archeage+cryengine+3&sm=12
Oh by the way everyone who is saying cartoony graphics suck need to play Brothers: A tale of two sons. If you after that still think cartoony graphics suck then... well I guess it's a matter of taste.
It's one of the most beautiful games I've ever played and if an MMO would look like that it would be the most beautiful MMO in history, probably for a long, long time.
It has always been a matter of taste when it comes to the player, I personally enjoy games with cartoon graphics a lot more, especially in RPGs where it just make you feel in another world.
Also, going with stylized Pixar graphics have many advantage for the developers in term of time it takes to make models and textures, hardware scaling and aging (realistic graphics needs constant upgrade, cartoons looks like cartoon, you can upgrade them once in a while, but they don't require the same amount of upgrades as realistic games do).
Old one looks like : GRRR I am badass
New one looks like : Yay party party, cerials for everyone, this is tiger tastic, and suddenly my biceps growed bigger then hulks one.
you know, i hate to interject in yet another one of these oh, so much fun, graphics debates, but, you all are crying about various stages of cartoony.
wildstar: cartoony, WoW:cartoony,EQN:cartoony, think about it, theres at least another half dozen games that will have cartoony.
its the gameplay that should matter, not the g-dammned graphics,
you give me a game that has substance, the graphics wont matter.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
You mean while the EQNext graphics still look 10 years old? Seeing how they already look 5 years old now. This whole stylized graphics age better talking point is complete and utter bullshit. Wildstar and EQN look dated before they have even launched.
If this game truly is DX9 only that sucks.
Don't bother buying a high end video card just for this game as the game will only use the dx9 features of the card and the rest will sit idle. You will just waste money.
I really hope this is not true for a game being launched in 2014.
I think in this thread its more about the quality and not about the cartoony part of EQN, i mean even games which are 5 years old are playable on DX10.
And I guess soon theres DX12, how can a game graphicly survive the next years which doesnt support new technologies.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You can keep claiming that as much as you like, but I'll still take WoW's graphics over EQ2's graphics today. You can keep wishing for your realistic graphics and/or hopping from the newest "realistic" graphics MMO to the next.
EQ2's world looks MUCH better than WoW, even today, in my opinion.
The character models, however, are beyond horrible.
Well you just answered the question that's been bothering hardware manufacturers for quite some time... How to get the players to buy new hardware? Nowadays technical aspects of graphics are not as important as they used to be. Basically, no one NEEDS graphics much better than what we have today on better class rigs in order to better enjoy games. Wii blew competing consoles out of the water in spite of inferior graphics - it is gameplay that matters, allways. The graphics are there only to serve gameplay.
So, I'll look in my Crystal Ball (tm) and predict: We are to see a huge new wave of voxel based games with new and exciting gameplay concepts. Since voxel-based graphics demand much much more processing power and memory than classical highly optimized engines in order to produce an equivalent level of graphical fidelity, we now create an exciting new horizon, a goal we (and our buyers) can pursue for years to come - a system which can run voxel based engines on the level of realism and fidelity compared to the one already achieved by vertex-based ones. (i think that's the proper term).
TL;DR: PS4 is a bork. It brings nothing truly new to the table unlike the first PS which offered true 3D graphics on a console for the masses. A PS5, which could conceivably integrate a high resolution hardware-based voxel engine (high resolution as in high voxel resolution, not just plain old pixel one), complete with realistic physics might just do the trick.
And thats fine. You can like w/e you want to. But dont hide behind that asinine argument. Dated is dated. regardless if its realistic or stylized. However, newer games that are coming down the pike like EQN and Wildstar are launching dated. Looking just like games that came out 5 6 even 7 years ago.
And i dont have to "wish" for anything. Those game are being made as i post this. While other games like BD, Repop and AA are taking advantage of the technology they have and are delivering amazing looking worlds. Worlds that are so realistic that you can just loose yourself in them without knowing it.
And i dont game hope. Dont lump me up with your typical MMOer with a d d of today. Im searching for a home. A MMO that has depth, charm and community. Traits that are missing from today's MMOs.
Hey, this forum is THERE that we debate about what we like and don't like! Don't boss people around.
As to the OP: I am on the fence. I don't need photorealism, but some more details would do EQ:N good. Take the graphics of GW2 as example, it looks very lush and detailled without being photorealistic. I hope SOE does tune up their graphics a bit, yet.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Its not really about the engine, Look at how those textures and models are produced there is so much more detail the artists have put into the latter you have posted.
While everquest next, still looks good, it has different art style which requires a lot less detail.
Mechanically, From what i have seen Lightforge can produce some great effects shading, filters, particles ect that can make ps2 look great on ultra settings. If they put the effort into making realistic looking assets you would have something 'close'.
The content is similar on these 2 pics which make it easier to distinguish between engine effects. almost look almost identical.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If you claim the games being made today (much less MMOs) look realistic, you need to go out more often.
That's the problem with "realistic" graphics - they don't look realistic and once you go a couple years forward, they don't even look good anymore, compared to the new games launching then.
EDIT: I might explain my gripe with these "realistic" graphics a bit further. You talkes about loosing yourself into the game world. Here's the catch (for me). If the game has realistic graphics, everything that fights against that realism breaks the immersion. For example, EVE has gorgeus, realistic graphics, yet I lose my "suspense of disbelief" immediatly when I see ships sliding into each other and pivoting on a central point with zero inertia and mass.
With cartoony graphics I can forigive much more when it comes to little things like that. Stuff like animations, gear/clothing/hair clipping, etc.
To me, those images look great.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If it means that with the added detail comes the horrible culling that GW2 has, I'll rather take the simpler models any day.
I would actually put Unreal Engine 3 up against EQN/Forgelight.
I refer you to the Bless trailer that was just posted in this thread. It seems to me like your the one that needs to go out more often.
Realistic graphics dont look realistic? I dont even know what top say to this. As realistic as a MMO could get i guess. Not photo realism but realism for a mmo? they are starting to get very real.
As for your personal preference for immersion? That cant be deputed. your tastes are yours and thats fine. But as for me its not. Its like saying you cant get immersed in say Star Wars because there is no way there could be a fat slug creature talking to a guy that is the captain of a ship that can travel through space with a first mate who is 9 ft tall. Thats just silly. So you cant immerse yourself in the atmosphere and the story. I feel sorry for you if thats the case.
Realistic (for me) will always top stylized. And those games are being made right now.