Originally posted by Stizzled The foundation is there now. I wonder how long before they fully implement the freemium model.
Regardless if it was in game or not they already had the Blizzard store where you could buy all this so...redundant post is redundant.
An item shop that can be accessed in-game is paramount to a successful freemium model. As you stated, they already have a perfectly working and successful shop available on their website, so why offer an in-game solution if they aren't at least considering switching payment models? That's all I'm wondering, no need to call my thoughts and opinions useless simply because you don't like them.
I'd hardly claim that an item shop MUST be accessible in-game to be a successful freemium model.
Not to challenge your thought in anyway, but I honestly would like to know of a F2P game that has be a major success without the use of a cash shop. The only thing that comes to mind are illegal servers of games that ask for donations. Since I can't think of a game, I'd like to know of a few to increase my knowledge of such.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I wonder if there is a subscription option that turns off in game cash shop advertisements!
Oh wait.
xD
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I didn't like the store to be being with, but it was kept OUT of the game, so if you really wanted something you had go get it and adverts were kept to the web site or launcher. It's obvious what their intensions are, they're hoping people who can't control themselves money wise will splurge what they can in the store, the temptation will be much higher. It's like sticking a cake shop in a fat mans house and saying "you don't have to buy it if you don't". Why do you think F2p games do it? because players will be much more tempted to buy crap if it's sitting in their face all the time.
At the moment, yeah there is nothing on the store to be worried about, but that they've decided to move it in-game just makes me think there going to start adding more stuff. Why? because there is nothing in the store that warents having it in-game, everything on there is a one time payment, so logging off and hopping on the store isn't to much of a problem. but with items you buy every so often or have time limits, having the store in-game is needed.
Yeah...
I'm struggling with my morals and values at the moment in thinking if I should accept this. I've said before that I will never play a game that has Box Price + Sub + In game cash shop and gave it as my main reason for boycotting The Secret World back in the day. Now do I just go with my usual "See the positive side of things and don't care so long as I'm having fun" philosophy and risk being a hypocrite, or take the moral ground and follow the values I set years ago for myself?
If done this will be a moral boycott so that I'm not just a hypocritical nobody any more than we all naturally are in some way. Though since everything needs a tag so people don't instantly assume the wrong things, I don't view it as a moral obligation for everyone, but a personal one based on values I established for myself years ago.
If I "get over it" (I.E. betray my values), then I might play the next expansion. Though if I'm a strong individual, it isn't likely to happen. I honestly wouldn't care if they sold ilvl 600 gear in the cash shop on their website (as that isn't my issue with this despite many using it as a point for some reason; I doubt they would ever do that if they value subscribers), but in game advertisements and UI interfaces that just remind you that there is a real money cash shop is a challenging feature to enjoy for those who pay subscriptions to get away from that. Indeed, many with a lack of self control will be milked and I'm not sure I like that; this is especially true since I pretty much defend WoW and Blizzard at every turn being a long term fan of their products and general fan service.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Interesting from a technology standpoint. I'm satisfied that the "why" is to make purchasing easier and more tempting. It's great for impulse buyers. Frankly I'm surprised it took this long.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Holly Jebus!!! Neither pets or mounts are necesary for any game play, you have 600 pets and 300+ available mounts in-game. If you still bitching about cash shop, don't wanna pay for them, there are always people who will sell cash shop mounts and pets for gold.
To be total honest this is other way for blizzard earn some fast money instead of people have tab out now you sit in game click on but so how long will take until the pay service will be there to lol.
Blizzard already more money then most country do but yet the want people to pay more + pet count as rare in pet battle so yeah the DO effect game play it just quesiton of time the add other thing to the store for once it is in game nothing will stop them to other thing then just mount and pet it may look innocent now but you just wait and see
Originally posted by Bladestrom Since pets and mounts are not pay to win I wonder if the people complaining here actually know why they are complaining.
Probably because many F2P games give content for free and charge you for vanity stuff like pets and mounts. In WoW you have to pay for new content via a subscription and then they are going to charge you again for vanity pets. It doesn't matter whether or not the argument is actually valid, what matters to Blizzard's bottom line is that players feel like they are getting screwed and that Blizzard is making a cash grab. Impressions are everything and people don't like to feel cheated.
These mounts and pets have been in their cash shop for a long ass time, way back in wrath if not before. And these pets are specialty so yeah... you are gonna have to fork some dough. There are still plenty of pets/mounts to farm for and these are just the few unique ones. Hardly what I call being cheated.
An argument can be made that pets and mounts are no way related to what people are paying for via sub as a counter argument can be made that content, class balance, and balancing are what people are paying for and all these mounts and pets are just fluff items and no way an obligation by Blizzard to fulfill.
Like I said it doesn't matter if they are or aren't related, what matters is how it makes the player feel. When they first started selling pets and mounts it pissed off a lot of people, it isn't like when they came out people celebrated in the streets to be allowed to pay more money. Blizzard was smart by disguising it as charity, but it was still met with a lot of people who were upset. The question is if you aren't paying a sub to get all the content, why are you paying a sub? There are plenty of great games that don't require one and only charge you for vanity items. It doesn't matter if those games are great, good, bad, or terrible, what sticks in the consumers mind is that these other people are only charging you once and Blizzard is charging you twice. It plays to the consumers estimate of the value, and how they feel about the double dip. The more and more games that become available that provide a good play experience with no sub, the more and more WoW starts to look like a cash grab.
You can even line up the pet store with the decline of subscriptions in WoW. Did the pet store cause the decline of WoW all by itself? Of course not, but it was one contributing factor to how consumers feel about the game, and how they feel about the amount of value provided for their sub fee, because at the end of the day when people feel they aren't getting enough value for their sub fee they stop subscribing.
Good job showing you have a "Cash shop" of items on a Subscription based game blizzard. Don't get me wrong, we know you double dip for a long time now, but now your just throwing it in peoples faces and helping them realize it more.
Disagree they will go F2P or anything with this as an 'in advance' option. Sure, their subs have been steadily dropping since after TBC, they still will take advantage of getting subscription AND mini cash shop as well as long as they possibly can. I'd say panic button might only really happen once subs drop to such low levels they would deem the cash shop being able to make more money then steady subs + selling expansions.
Seriously they haven't added anything new, these pets and mounts were already available, and have been available for three years now from the Blizzard store. All they have done is streamline the process so you can buy it in-game like every other MMO does. Also now you can preview the mount and pet in game.
So lay off the crazy pills people. This isn't a move to F2P and this isn't a new cash grab, its just an old cash grab that has been polished.
Originally posted by Jafotron They replaced the submit a ticket function with the in-game store function...... glad they got their priorities in check. Just wow lol
You can still submit tickets, not sure what you are on about.
Seriously they haven't added anything new, these pets and mounts were already available, and have been available for three years now from the Blizzard store. All they have done is streamline the process so you can buy it in-game like every other MMO does. Also now you can preview the mount and pet in game.
So lay off the crazy pills people. This isn't a move to F2P and this isn't a new cash grab, its just an old cash grab that has been polished.
It's the direction it's going that people have issue with. And I think we all know it's been around for years but the new " feature" obviously means it's going to be expanding even more.
Of all the things people complain about here...a cash shop in a sub game is a pretty valid one ( imo)
Being worried that an unlikely thing may happen at some distant point in the future does not make it reality. I could equally worry that blizzard may make all raiding flex including heroic - its the direction they 'appear' to be going, but in reality we know bliz won't do this as it would destroy certain aspects of gameplay - same as a pay to win cash shop.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Jafotron They replaced the submit a ticket function with the in-game store function...... glad they got their priorities in check. Just wow lol
You can still submit tickets, not sure what you are on about.
I didn't say they removed it, i said they replaced it. yes you still can submit a ticket, but that they're prioritizing a in-game store function over a player support function on the main UI bar just speaks volumes
Originally posted by Stizzled The foundation is there now. I wonder how long before they fully implement the freemium model.
Never, they have people willing to pay a subscription fee AND pay extra for pets, mounts, etc, things that should be covered by their subscription. This isn't a hint at WoW going F2P in the near future, to me it just shows me how stupidly dedicated WoW players are, personally.
Seriously they haven't added anything new, these pets and mounts were already available, and have been available for three years now from the Blizzard store. All they have done is streamline the process so you can buy it in-game like every other MMO does. Also now you can preview the mount and pet in game.
So lay off the crazy pills people. This isn't a move to F2P and this isn't a new cash grab, its just an old cash grab that has been polished.
It's the direction it's going that people have issue with. And I think we all know it's been around for years but the new " feature" obviously means it's going to be expanding even more.
Of all the things people complain about here...a cash shop in a sub game is a pretty valid one ( imo)
Its pretty unobtrusive, and it just makes sense. I always thought it was strange that you had to go outside the game to look at the Blizzard store, and you couldn't view items in game, but this was coming from having played EQ2 for many years.
Blizzards cash shop is also pretty tame in comparison to the cash shop Everquest 2 was running while it was still a subscription game. That had XP potions, appearance gear, pet transformations and illusions that all realistically should have been included in he sub. Basically anything that looked cool or interesting was from the cash shop, and not in game. Also they had big pop up advertisement every time you loaded into the game. Blizzard on the other hand has it down in the menu buttons and doesn't keep throwing it in your face.
I don't know what's funnier, the fact that Blizz replaced the help button with the cash shop icon, the apologists claiming that Blizz is doing nothing wrong here, or the people trying to spin this into a "victory" for subscription games. I just... hahahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Comments
Not to challenge your thought in anyway, but I honestly would like to know of a F2P game that has be a major success without the use of a cash shop. The only thing that comes to mind are illegal servers of games that ask for donations. Since I can't think of a game, I'd like to know of a few to increase my knowledge of such.
I wonder if there is a subscription option that turns off in game cash shop advertisements!
Oh wait.
xD
I'm struggling with my morals and values at the moment in thinking if I should accept this. I've said before that I will never play a game that has Box Price + Sub + In game cash shop and gave it as my main reason for boycotting The Secret World back in the day. Now do I just go with my usual "See the positive side of things and don't care so long as I'm having fun" philosophy and risk being a hypocrite, or take the moral ground and follow the values I set years ago for myself?
If done this will be a moral boycott so that I'm not just a hypocritical nobody any more than we all naturally are in some way. Though since everything needs a tag so people don't instantly assume the wrong things, I don't view it as a moral obligation for everyone, but a personal one based on values I established for myself years ago.
If I "get over it" (I.E. betray my values), then I might play the next expansion. Though if I'm a strong individual, it isn't likely to happen. I honestly wouldn't care if they sold ilvl 600 gear in the cash shop on their website (as that isn't my issue with this despite many using it as a point for some reason; I doubt they would ever do that if they value subscribers), but in game advertisements and UI interfaces that just remind you that there is a real money cash shop is a challenging feature to enjoy for those who pay subscriptions to get away from that. Indeed, many with a lack of self control will be milked and I'm not sure I like that; this is especially true since I pretty much defend WoW and Blizzard at every turn being a long term fan of their products and general fan service.
Interesting from a technology standpoint. I'm satisfied that the "why" is to make purchasing easier and more tempting. It's great for impulse buyers. Frankly I'm surprised it took this long.
Holly Jebus!!! Neither pets or mounts are necesary for any game play, you have 600 pets and 300+ available mounts in-game. If you still bitching about cash shop, don't wanna pay for them, there are always people who will sell cash shop mounts and pets for gold.
Cry more.
To be total honest this is other way for blizzard earn some fast money instead of people have tab out now you sit in game click on but so how long will take until the pay service will be there to lol.
Blizzard already more money then most country do but yet the want people to pay more + pet count as rare in pet battle so yeah the DO effect game play it just quesiton of time the add other thing to the store for once it is in game nothing will stop them to other thing then just mount and pet it may look innocent now but you just wait and see
Like I said it doesn't matter if they are or aren't related, what matters is how it makes the player feel. When they first started selling pets and mounts it pissed off a lot of people, it isn't like when they came out people celebrated in the streets to be allowed to pay more money. Blizzard was smart by disguising it as charity, but it was still met with a lot of people who were upset. The question is if you aren't paying a sub to get all the content, why are you paying a sub? There are plenty of great games that don't require one and only charge you for vanity items. It doesn't matter if those games are great, good, bad, or terrible, what sticks in the consumers mind is that these other people are only charging you once and Blizzard is charging you twice. It plays to the consumers estimate of the value, and how they feel about the double dip. The more and more games that become available that provide a good play experience with no sub, the more and more WoW starts to look like a cash grab.
You can even line up the pet store with the decline of subscriptions in WoW. Did the pet store cause the decline of WoW all by itself? Of course not, but it was one contributing factor to how consumers feel about the game, and how they feel about the amount of value provided for their sub fee, because at the end of the day when people feel they aren't getting enough value for their sub fee they stop subscribing.
they had 10+ million subs that were continually rising years ago, no need for it
now that subs are plummeting, it's a nice way to rake in some more $$$ while they still can
I hope never. And I do not like at all what they are doing, never have never will.
LOL like never, because they can double dip?
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Good job showing you have a "Cash shop" of items on a Subscription based game blizzard. Don't get me wrong, we know you double dip for a long time now, but now your just throwing it in peoples faces and helping them realize it more.
Disagree they will go F2P or anything with this as an 'in advance' option. Sure, their subs have been steadily dropping since after TBC, they still will take advantage of getting subscription AND mini cash shop as well as long as they possibly can. I'd say panic button might only really happen once subs drop to such low levels they would deem the cash shop being able to make more money then steady subs + selling expansions.
Seriously they haven't added anything new, these pets and mounts were already available, and have been available for three years now from the Blizzard store. All they have done is streamline the process so you can buy it in-game like every other MMO does. Also now you can preview the mount and pet in game.
So lay off the crazy pills people. This isn't a move to F2P and this isn't a new cash grab, its just an old cash grab that has been polished.
You can still submit tickets, not sure what you are on about.
It's the direction it's going that people have issue with. And I think we all know it's been around for years but the new " feature" obviously means it's going to be expanding even more.
Of all the things people complain about here...a cash shop in a sub game is a pretty valid one ( imo)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I didn't say they removed it, i said they replaced it. yes you still can submit a ticket, but that they're prioritizing a in-game store function over a player support function on the main UI bar just speaks volumes
Never, they have people willing to pay a subscription fee AND pay extra for pets, mounts, etc, things that should be covered by their subscription. This isn't a hint at WoW going F2P in the near future, to me it just shows me how stupidly dedicated WoW players are, personally.
Its pretty unobtrusive, and it just makes sense. I always thought it was strange that you had to go outside the game to look at the Blizzard store, and you couldn't view items in game, but this was coming from having played EQ2 for many years.
Blizzards cash shop is also pretty tame in comparison to the cash shop Everquest 2 was running while it was still a subscription game. That had XP potions, appearance gear, pet transformations and illusions that all realistically should have been included in he sub. Basically anything that looked cool or interesting was from the cash shop, and not in game. Also they had big pop up advertisement every time you loaded into the game. Blizzard on the other hand has it down in the menu buttons and doesn't keep throwing it in your face.
I don't know what's funnier, the fact that Blizz replaced the help button with the cash shop icon, the apologists claiming that Blizz is doing nothing wrong here, or the people trying to spin this into a "victory" for subscription games. I just... hahahahaha... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D