I personally don't know if this is really bad or good, but I have to say as someone who watched the outrageous spending habits of Red 5 someone had to be the one who approved of all the spending on B-rated actors/wrestlers (forgot if that dude that they hired to get decked out in one of their costumes was an actor or wrestler), and things like a huge gaming bus that looked expensive enough that the money used on it could have probably fed a hungry family for 10 years... And then hiring professional comic writers too to boot.
Well, I'm just going to say that Mark Kern certainly did nothing to stop the huge sums of cash that were spent on promoting the game way before it was even released to the public. I mean... They were in Closed Beta for like 2 years and didn't really manage to achieve much, so it does seem like management wasn't handled very well.
Firefall had such promise but the development took so long that it's come to the point where people lost interest already by time it was officallly released. I think any one who signed up for founder packs should be refunded and the game closed down.
Originally posted by Jorl Firefall had such promise but the development took so long that it's come to the point where people lost interest already by time it was officallly released. I think any one who signed up for founder packs should be refunded and the game closed down.
What official release? The game is still in beta lol.
And that's exactly the point. The game has been in development for 7 years. It has changed "identities" so many times that I don't think anyone truly knows what the game was, is, or will become.
I remember I got SUPER hyped on Firefall maybe 3-4 years ago when I was playing Darkfall Online religiously. Firefall was being marketed as a hardcore PvP FPSMMO with open world PvP, sieges, area control and contest, etc. Now, there isn't even any type of PvP in the game; open world, arenas, matches, battlegrounds, or otherwise.
That's just one example, there are many more. The game has been in some form of beta for I think 4 years and still is with no end in sight.
Firefall had a lot of potential, but at this point I don't think anyone can take it seriously anymore.
Firefall is actually really fun to play. It just needs more content (way more). I know they are a small team, and that it can take a lot of time to make new content... but with all the money that was "wasted" on marketing, I think they should have hired more dev instead to speed up the process.
Anyway, getting fired 5 days before christmas must suck. I hope mark is ok.
It's not a rumor it's a fact. Mark is gone. A red five employee has posted this on the Firefall forums and apologized for the way we found out (not through official channels).
The game was hurting as there was no clear path forward. A lot of old timers (as in two year vets) said that the game used to be better than it is today (not a good thing). They need to step back and look at the big picture and plan a way forward. Stop worrying so much about the market and stop item decay (a stupid mechanic). I remember one night about two months ago when Mark logged into the game and said "hi I am the ceo of Firefall" and "how are you guys liking the game?". Sad he had to lose his job, but it will hopefully lead to better things in Firefall (which as a mmo shooter has huge potential).
Originally posted by ste2000 Firefall is a generic MMO as it gets. It looks like a Multiplayer Shooter but it ain't. At the same time is not MMO enough. Not surprised the game bombed and the CEO got fired...... rightly so.
Lack of a final vision maybe but generic ?.. no Firefall has lots of unique features, they just never saw enough of them through.
When I say "generic" I don't mean he usual WoW copycat but a game that tries to please everyone and please none, like many of the latest MMORPG.
Indeed Firefall had few good ideas but it's one of those game which make me ask "what yhe f..k is this?", question that I keep asking myself quite frequently in the last 5 years.
When I first got interested in Firefall I thought it was going to be a better Planetside 2, then I discovered it had very little to do with PS2, the PvP was so bad they scrapped it after few months.
So I thought maybe the PvE was better...........fat chances, very limited content and tedious gameplay, borderline confusing.
Developers need to risk more and make something that DOESN'T please everyone but that is great at what it does (see EVE).
The MMO industry needs more EVEs and less SWTORs, more niche games with a distinctive direction which keeps (less) players playing for years rather than months.
All the magic bean selling and writing checks their collective asses couldn't cash is catching up. I'm sorry to see Mark Kern lose his job, but anybody with 2 eyes could have seen this one coming.
It's not a rumor it's a fact. Mark is gone. A red five employee has posted this on the Firefall forums and apologized for the way we found out (not through official channels).
The game was hurting as there was no clear path forward. A lot of old timers (as in two year vets) said that the game used to be better than it is today (not a good thing). They need to step back and look at the big picture and plan a way forward. Stop worrying so much about the market and stop item decay (a stupid mechanic). I remember one night about two months ago when Mark logged into the game and said "hi I am the ceo of Firefall" and "how are you guys liking the game?". Sad he had to lose his job, but it will hopefully lead to better things in Firefall (which as a mmo shooter has huge potential).
I actually like item decay. Its one of the thing that made firefall "stand out" for me. Seriously, people need to stop complaining and realize that a little "sting" (like item decay) when you die is a GOOD thing. I'm bored of games that let you die over and over with no consequence. It trivialize content.
It's not a rumor it's a fact. Mark is gone. A red five employee has posted this on the Firefall forums and apologized for the way we found out (not through official channels).
The game was hurting as there was no clear path forward. A lot of old timers (as in two year vets) said that the game used to be better than it is today (not a good thing). They need to step back and look at the big picture and plan a way forward. Stop worrying so much about the market and stop item decay (a stupid mechanic). I remember one night about two months ago when Mark logged into the game and said "hi I am the ceo of Firefall" and "how are you guys liking the game?". Sad he had to lose his job, but it will hopefully lead to better things in Firefall (which as a mmo shooter has huge potential).
I actually like item decay. Its one of the thing that made firefall "stand out" for me. Seriously, people need to stop complaining and realize that a little "sting" (like item decay) when you die is a GOOD thing. I'm bored of games that let you die over and over with no consequence. It trivialize content.
Item decay wasn't the problem, it was item decay + permanent item destruction + that inept marketplace + twit of an economist.
What really ended up happening is peoples items would break and they couldn't replace them with anything, because the market place was DOA and the costs for crafting/research were dumb. They turned a good start into a shitty start. They haven't developed anything really beyond Copacabana and those place holder areas and cruddy instances.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
It's not a rumor it's a fact. Mark is gone. A red five employee has posted this on the Firefall forums and apologized for the way we found out (not through official channels).
The game was hurting as there was no clear path forward. A lot of old timers (as in two year vets) said that the game used to be better than it is today (not a good thing). They need to step back and look at the big picture and plan a way forward. Stop worrying so much about the market and stop item decay (a stupid mechanic). I remember one night about two months ago when Mark logged into the game and said "hi I am the ceo of Firefall" and "how are you guys liking the game?". Sad he had to lose his job, but it will hopefully lead to better things in Firefall (which as a mmo shooter has huge potential).
I actually like item decay. Its one of the thing that made firefall "stand out" for me. Seriously, people need to stop complaining and realize that a little "sting" (like item decay) when you die is a GOOD thing. I'm bored of games that let you die over and over with no consequence. It trivialize content.
Item decay wasn't the problem, it was item decay + permanent item destruction + that inept marketplace + twit of an economist.
What really ended up happening is peoples items would break and they couldn't replace them with anything, because the market place was DOA and the costs for crafting/research were dumb. They turned a good start into a shitty start. They haven't developed anything really beyond Copacabana and those place holder areas and cruddy instances.
Thats not how it turned out for me.
I was careful with my high end crafted stuff. I monitored their durability. It takes a long time for an item to break (unless you are dieing over and over, then its pretty quick), so if you play smart, you can earn MORE than enough material to re-craft your item 3x before it breaks.
Even more since they removed the requirement for DNA (the "grind" part). Seriously, materials are flowing left and right in this game. Pretty much ANYTHING you do in game will get you some.
I'm really happy that a game finally reward people for playing smart, and punish people for mistakes.
Only if you horde resources and thump continually would you have enough crystite to not only research, but then also refine and actually craft. Then there was the stupid as hell time gating. Firefall was/is a complete utter mess of a game. How do you implement a system of this nature with such terrible combat and practices. Aimbots all over the place. Firefall has yet to solve their dilemma of how to make a game challenging without just ramming more HP, Damage and accuracy to the bots. The economy and market place was just piling shit on top of shit (pardon my french).
Had the game had better leadership the talent there would have been put to better use. What a total total waste of time and resources. The only thing that keeps Firefall remotely alive = the lemmings with deep pockets. Who spends cash on a completely unfinished game with no finish line remotely in sight? THEY do.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
About time, although pretty crappy for it to happen right before Christmas like this (seriously, why the hell can't companies just WAIT?). I'm sure he got at least a decent severance package though.
Firefall has gone through so many (unnecessary) re-works at this point it's practically become a punchline. For years the game has had ZERO direction, and ZERO idea of what it wants to be, and to whom. Because of this the game is no closer to being 'finished' than it was almost two years ago, and in some areas has actually regressed.
I can't see this move as anything but a positive one. Perhaps now they can make some actual progress on the game instead of unnecessarily reworking core systems for the 15th freaking time.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
I think someone described firefall best as a frankenstiens monster. So I guess bits of dead games badly sown together. Like others have said it had a lot of potential if they had a reasonably clear design in mind at some point in its development.
Sucks getting canned at this time of year but may be a good thing for the game, unlikely I know but the players can at least keep thier fingers crossed.
Good move... Developing a game and running a company are not the same thing. He was out of his league but I wish him the best. Being a CEO isn't for everyone.
Now the board just needs to get rid of the toxic dev that insults community members and bans everyone he doesnt like. Do that and many of the Founders will return.
Game has been in development for 7+ years. F'n A right, get someone in who will start to get things done instead of going back to the drawing board after SOOOOOOO long.
I have been playing Firefall for over three years and I am amazed how something that started out so great has become what it is today. Its like the dev team had ADHD and continued to change direction every 3 to 6 months. I don't even know what to do anymore when I log in.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Mark Kern is a douchebag. I'm glad he got fired, he talked so much shit about mmorpg's in general. And how he was the fuckin messiah of the genre with his game Firefall. Turns out Firefall is a pos that nobody wanted to play because it ran like shit, played like shit, and was about as fun as play with shit.
Good riddance.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Not entirely surprising, the game sucked after about 30 days. Grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind.... blah..blah... and companies like this always try to find a "fall" guy/gal.
BTW firing a dude on the 20th is pretty f-ed up and really says something about the company... not in a good way either.
Originally posted by Gravarg Why do they always get rid of the good ones, but keep the ones everybody hates?
Sadly it appears quite the reverse in this case. Just take a look at all the comments on glassdoor.com. It's probably too late but at least there is now a chance to change the culture of the company. At the very least they can install someone that is able to keep a hand on the rudder.
All that man was capable of was saying : "GW2 does everything right, so just like GW2 in FIrefall we have done ..." or "WoW is so bad, i know everyone hates WOW and i hate WoW too and we made Firefall...", read his columns in mmorpg,com for more of what i am getting at. I am sure now Firefall will be a better game now that he is gone.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Originally posted by ste2000 Firefall is a generic MMO as it gets. It looks like a Multiplayer Shooter but it ain't. At the same time is not MMO enough. Not surprised the game bombed and the CEO got fired...... rightly so.
Lack of a final vision maybe but generic ?.. no Firefall has lots of unique features, they just never saw enough of them through.
Yeah, I wouldn't call it generic either and it has a progression system that is fairly different from other games. Generic is Defiance. Firefall is just a disorganized, mismanaged mess with no direction or leadership.
I have a feeling the Mark Kern wasn't the only leadership problem here. You can tell by the way their European counterpart wasn't even informed directly. We'll see how they do. It's easy to make one problem person the fall guy, but if they don't fix their culture, then they're probably doomed.
This.
on a personal note: I really love firefall's gameplay. I just hate that the gameplay is the only good thing about the game. The game world itself is incomplete and still feels like an alpha stage. I hope this change will result in positive improvements for firefall.
Comments
I personally don't know if this is really bad or good, but I have to say as someone who watched the outrageous spending habits of Red 5 someone had to be the one who approved of all the spending on B-rated actors/wrestlers (forgot if that dude that they hired to get decked out in one of their costumes was an actor or wrestler), and things like a huge gaming bus that looked expensive enough that the money used on it could have probably fed a hungry family for 10 years... And then hiring professional comic writers too to boot.
Well, I'm just going to say that Mark Kern certainly did nothing to stop the huge sums of cash that were spent on promoting the game way before it was even released to the public. I mean... They were in Closed Beta for like 2 years and didn't really manage to achieve much, so it does seem like management wasn't handled very well.
Smile
What official release? The game is still in beta lol.
And that's exactly the point. The game has been in development for 7 years. It has changed "identities" so many times that I don't think anyone truly knows what the game was, is, or will become.
I remember I got SUPER hyped on Firefall maybe 3-4 years ago when I was playing Darkfall Online religiously. Firefall was being marketed as a hardcore PvP FPSMMO with open world PvP, sieges, area control and contest, etc. Now, there isn't even any type of PvP in the game; open world, arenas, matches, battlegrounds, or otherwise.
That's just one example, there are many more. The game has been in some form of beta for I think 4 years and still is with no end in sight.
Firefall had a lot of potential, but at this point I don't think anyone can take it seriously anymore.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Firefall is actually really fun to play. It just needs more content (way more). I know they are a small team, and that it can take a lot of time to make new content... but with all the money that was "wasted" on marketing, I think they should have hired more dev instead to speed up the process.
Anyway, getting fired 5 days before christmas must suck. I hope mark is ok.
It's not a rumor it's a fact. Mark is gone. A red five employee has posted this on the Firefall forums and apologized for the way we found out (not through official channels).
The game was hurting as there was no clear path forward. A lot of old timers (as in two year vets) said that the game used to be better than it is today (not a good thing). They need to step back and look at the big picture and plan a way forward. Stop worrying so much about the market and stop item decay (a stupid mechanic). I remember one night about two months ago when Mark logged into the game and said "hi I am the ceo of Firefall" and "how are you guys liking the game?". Sad he had to lose his job, but it will hopefully lead to better things in Firefall (which as a mmo shooter has huge potential).
When I say "generic" I don't mean he usual WoW copycat but a game that tries to please everyone and please none, like many of the latest MMORPG.
Indeed Firefall had few good ideas but it's one of those game which make me ask "what yhe f..k is this?", question that I keep asking myself quite frequently in the last 5 years.
When I first got interested in Firefall I thought it was going to be a better Planetside 2, then I discovered it had very little to do with PS2, the PvP was so bad they scrapped it after few months.
So I thought maybe the PvE was better...........fat chances, very limited content and tedious gameplay, borderline confusing.
Developers need to risk more and make something that DOESN'T please everyone but that is great at what it does (see EVE).
The MMO industry needs more EVEs and less SWTORs, more niche games with a distinctive direction which keeps (less) players playing for years rather than months.
Leadership change check.
All the magic bean selling and writing checks their collective asses couldn't cash is catching up. I'm sorry to see Mark Kern lose his job, but anybody with 2 eyes could have seen this one coming.
Here's to Mark Kern and his "dreams":
http://youtu.be/JQrQWRiXFss
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I actually like item decay. Its one of the thing that made firefall "stand out" for me. Seriously, people need to stop complaining and realize that a little "sting" (like item decay) when you die is a GOOD thing. I'm bored of games that let you die over and over with no consequence. It trivialize content.
Item decay wasn't the problem, it was item decay + permanent item destruction + that inept marketplace + twit of an economist.
What really ended up happening is peoples items would break and they couldn't replace them with anything, because the market place was DOA and the costs for crafting/research were dumb. They turned a good start into a shitty start. They haven't developed anything really beyond Copacabana and those place holder areas and cruddy instances.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thats not how it turned out for me.
I was careful with my high end crafted stuff. I monitored their durability. It takes a long time for an item to break (unless you are dieing over and over, then its pretty quick), so if you play smart, you can earn MORE than enough material to re-craft your item 3x before it breaks.
Even more since they removed the requirement for DNA (the "grind" part). Seriously, materials are flowing left and right in this game. Pretty much ANYTHING you do in game will get you some.
I'm really happy that a game finally reward people for playing smart, and punish people for mistakes.
My take on Red 5 and Firefall can be summed up with a meme, which I am too lazy to make so here is the simple text version:
Stop trying to make Firefall happen, it's not going to happen.
Only if you horde resources and thump continually would you have enough crystite to not only research, but then also refine and actually craft. Then there was the stupid as hell time gating. Firefall was/is a complete utter mess of a game. How do you implement a system of this nature with such terrible combat and practices. Aimbots all over the place. Firefall has yet to solve their dilemma of how to make a game challenging without just ramming more HP, Damage and accuracy to the bots. The economy and market place was just piling shit on top of shit (pardon my french).
Had the game had better leadership the talent there would have been put to better use. What a total total waste of time and resources. The only thing that keeps Firefall remotely alive = the lemmings with deep pockets. Who spends cash on a completely unfinished game with no finish line remotely in sight? THEY do.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
About time, although pretty crappy for it to happen right before Christmas like this (seriously, why the hell can't companies just WAIT?). I'm sure he got at least a decent severance package though.
Firefall has gone through so many (unnecessary) re-works at this point it's practically become a punchline. For years the game has had ZERO direction, and ZERO idea of what it wants to be, and to whom. Because of this the game is no closer to being 'finished' than it was almost two years ago, and in some areas has actually regressed.
I can't see this move as anything but a positive one. Perhaps now they can make some actual progress on the game instead of unnecessarily reworking core systems for the 15th freaking time.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
I think someone described firefall best as a frankenstiens monster. So I guess bits of dead games badly sown together. Like others have said it had a lot of potential if they had a reasonably clear design in mind at some point in its development.
Sucks getting canned at this time of year but may be a good thing for the game, unlikely I know but the players can at least keep thier fingers crossed.
Good move... Developing a game and running a company are not the same thing. He was out of his league but I wish him the best. Being a CEO isn't for everyone.
Now the board just needs to get rid of the toxic dev that insults community members and bans everyone he doesnt like. Do that and many of the Founders will return.
Mark Kern is a douchebag. I'm glad he got fired, he talked so much shit about mmorpg's in general. And how he was the fuckin messiah of the genre with his game Firefall. Turns out Firefall is a pos that nobody wanted to play because it ran like shit, played like shit, and was about as fun as play with shit.
Good riddance.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Not entirely surprising, the game sucked after about 30 days. Grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind.... blah..blah... and companies like this always try to find a "fall" guy/gal.
BTW firing a dude on the 20th is pretty f-ed up and really says something about the company... not in a good way either.
OOPPPS!
Sadly it appears quite the reverse in this case. Just take a look at all the comments on glassdoor.com. It's probably too late but at least there is now a chance to change the culture of the company. At the very least they can install someone that is able to keep a hand on the rudder.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
This.
on a personal note: I really love firefall's gameplay. I just hate that the gameplay is the only good thing about the game. The game world itself is incomplete and still feels like an alpha stage. I hope this change will result in positive improvements for firefall.