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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Strengths and Weaknesses

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  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by flguy147

    Suprised people are calling it a WOW clone.

    You are spot on................. it is a SWTOR clone.

    Your own sig says you believe otherwise

    I had that signature before ESO was even being announced............. Notice it also says EQ 3 instead of EQNext.

    I wished both ESO and EQNext were made as MMOs even before their announcement, that's because I am a fan of  both TES and the EQ games.

    Unfortunately both games will be a disappointment for me............... but nevermind.

    Luckily there will be plenty of Indie MMOs to play in the next 2 years.

    I think he's talking about this.. "Zenimax.......players want Skyrim Online. They do NOT want WOWTES"'

    This exactly. It really CAN't be more true.

    All they had to was take Skyrim and turn it into a multiplayer game. I mean, they had a blueprint right in front of them! Most MMO devs do not have that privilege.

    Instead, Mr. Firror comes up with who the hell knows what to call it- DAoC 2 with an Elder Scrolls twist? Whatever it is, we all know it severely pales in comparison to every deep Elder Scrolls game we've come to know.

    Guess what folks? you can besiege castles DAoC style! Want to do it first person view too? Fine, we'll throw that in just to appease you Elder Scrolls fans.

    Compare:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQFxE4AESn4#t=106

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riKqvouCZWA&t=4m7s

    image
  • RocknissRockniss Member Posts: 1,034
    This was an impossible task rrom the beginning and why I said it should have just created its own ip rather than using elder scrolls. if you can dont look at it like elder scrolls and you will be much happier thats what I will do and I am sure I will be able to enjoy it.
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713

    If ESO had actually been developed as a full open PvP sandbox with no questing/guided content the first thing ES fans would be saying is "where are the quests? This is nothing like Skyrim".

     

    Only thing that makes Skyrim feel like a sandbox is the ability to go on the rides in whatever order you like. But ultimately the games have always been "themepark" in design.

     

    Really starting to hate the Themepark and Sandbox labels. Every MMO is automatically shoehorned in one of those two very broad and debatable categories. Never used to be this way, no one ever called EverQuest a themepark when it followed Ultima Online. MMOs used to be taken for their own merits and style.

     
    All I am willing to say from my beta experience is I was shocked how much it actually felt like playing an Elder Scrolls game and not an MMO themed like Elder Scrolls.

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    If ESO had actually been developed as a full open PvP sandbox with no questing/guided content the first thing ES fans would be saying is "where are the quests? This is nothing like Skyrim".

     

    Only thing that makes Skyrim feel like a sandbox is the ability to go on the rides in whatever order you like. But ultimately the games have always been "themepark" in design.

     

    Really starting to hate the Themepark and Sandbox labels. Every MMO is automatically shoehorned in one of those two very broad and debatable categories. Never used to be this way, no one ever called EverQuest a themepark when it followed Ultima Online. MMOs used to be taken for their own merits and style.

     
    All I am willing to say from my beta experience is I was shocked how much it actually felt like playing an Elder Scrolls game and not an MMO themed like Elder Scrolls.

    image

    But this is a big budget AAA MMO from an established company.... it must be bashed, it's the law!

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • killahhkillahh Member UncommonPosts: 445
    Not sure who I want to hate more at this point, the naysayers who jump on the bandwagon Ar every opportunity, or guys like bill Murphy, who continue to do columns with no substance, getting people riled up.
    I for one like the fact that you have to take care when you make your char, and it's not a wowesce respect away to fix.

    over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...

  • inopinatusinopinatus Member Posts: 1
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    If ESO had actually been developed as a full open PvP sandbox with no questing/guided content the first thing ES fans would be saying is "where are the quests? This is nothing like Skyrim".

    Blending the two is possible, case in point: CCP. And there are enough adaptable game mechanics, structures and backstory in the TES series that it could easily have been Skyrim:Online.

    Like many of us, I'll try it but my expectations are simultaneously very high ("what could have been") and very low ("I think they'll botch it")...

  • BjelarBjelar Member UncommonPosts: 398
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower

     

    Other very strong point is: IM IN CONTROL of how i play and how game should be for a big part this can never happen in themepark.

     

     

    This every developer should make a note of.

     

    We want to be in control. No forced PvP or forced raiding to get usefull gear. Time invested counts, playstyle not so much.

     

    That said I have great hopes TESO will let us be in control.

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,030

    "There’s intentionally no respect in ESO"

     

    lol .... love that line. :)

    You stay sassy!

  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    With GW2-like level scaling and a commitment to dynamic content that will change over time, this game might appeal to many TES fans. However, I haven't seen any mention of either associated with the game, so I'm concerned.

    No matter how much it looks and feels like a TES game, if it's all linear quest hub grinding, I don't know how they expect to grab and keep TES players who aren't also fans of status quo MMO gaming.

    I guess it comes down to how they approached development when they started years ago. Did they decide to try to do something evolutionary for the MMO genre that would capture TES gaming style and make it work in an MMO format? Or, did they just decide to make another genre clone with a TES skin?

    I'm hopeful they went for evolution, but I'm not really seeing much indication from the info we have so far that supports that hope.

    I realize MMO development is an expensive and risky venture, but all the clones have either failed or just fallen short of anything greater than mediocre success. Why invest all that time and money in an MMO if you aren't going to at least try to evolve the genre? Cloning isn't the safe move, it's the development strategy well proven to not result in success.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • BjelarBjelar Member UncommonPosts: 398
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    "There’s intentionally no respect in ESO"

     

    lol .... love that line. :)

    lmao

  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871
    Originally posted by fiontar

    I guess it comes down to how they approached development when they started years ago. Did they decide to try to do something evolutionary for the MMO genre that would capture TES gaming style and make it work in an MMO format? Or, did they just decide to make another genre clone with a TES skin?

    In my view It could not be more clear they did the latter- "another genre clone with a TES skin."

    They've only been more recently making the game more and more Elder Scrollsy. They added 1st person view in. Added the compass. Then adding in more lorebooks. etc. etc

    My question is, how the heck did they design this game by missing all those essential Elder Scrolls elements that move us and make us feel like we're truly part of the world? This stuff should have been obvious to them! As obvious to them as anybody whose ever put their hands on an Elder Scrolls title for just a few mins.

    I recommend you guys all read this article by Shank if you haven't already called "Why ESO Is Not For Me" (which happened to get overwhelming support):

    http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2013/12/12/eso-has-almost-completely-lost-me-eso-teso-skyrim-elder-scrolls-bethesda-zenimax-elder-scrolls-online-dragonborn-oblivion-morrowind-daggerfall-arena-eso-alliance-eso-alliance-eso-teso-skyrim-elder-scr/

    Then you will know why this game is not going to succeed at grabbing the single-player Elder Scrolls crowd. It really is a bummer, because 3 months are almost certainly not enough to fix this game.

    image
  • CediaCedia Member UncommonPosts: 21

    I'd like to play it, but I can't handle WASD controls.  Tried to set up my own mouselook scheme, but couldn't, because?  console controls for blocking and rolling and stuff are all the rage nowadays?

    Too bad, so sad, bye bye.

     
  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    If ESO had actually been developed as a full open PvP sandbox with no questing/guided content the first thing ES fans would be saying is "where are the quests? This is nothing like Skyrim".

     

    Only thing that makes Skyrim feel like a sandbox is the ability to go on the rides in whatever order you like. But ultimately the games have always been "themepark" in design.

     

    Really starting to hate the Themepark and Sandbox labels.

    Who was demanding a game with NO quests? No one.

    Who was demanding a 100% sandbox TES? No one.

    lastly, your comment about Skyrim only being sandbox because of the ability to do quests in any order you like proves you know nothing about sandbox.......or nothing about Skyrim......or both.

    The entire post was an attempt to derail arguments against the idiocy of DaoCTES by using false arguments and statements.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • NephelaiNephelai Member UncommonPosts: 185
    Originally posted by Bjelar
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower

     

    Other very strong point is: IM IN CONTROL of how i play and how game should be for a big part this can never happen in themepark.

     

    This every developer should make a note of.

     

    We want to be in control. No forced PvP or forced raiding to get usefull gear. Time invested counts, playstyle not so much.

     

    That said I have great hopes TESO will let us be in control.

    Time should never count in any significant way. That's like a seniority system that rewards unskilled people with copious amounts of time on their hands. You should get a watch for 25 years service not a promotion.

     

    I love Skyrim too but I don't understand how people even think you could just add extra players and make it an MMO. Its designed around single player and is as simple as you can get. The attraction (for me) is the exploration part, solving puzzles etc. If some of that makes it into the MMO I'll be happy.

     

    One thing I don't hope makes it into the MMO is the focus on realistic combat actions - that level of immersion works in an FPS however in an MMO where competition is involved useless delays in the name of immersion will frustrate people I'd wager. If it does, we'll see people running around everywhere weapons drawn to avoid delays.

     

     

     

     

     

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by superconducting

    They've only been more recently making the game more and more Elder Scrollsy. They added 1st person view in. Added the compass. Then adding in more lorebooks. etc. etc

    Yet not one of those things were invented by TES. They are RPG staples.........in fact, first person and compasses are MMORPG staples.

    Its just more proof the game is TES in name only, they had to turn to calling the addition of such things "adding TES features" because that's how much its lacking in TES features.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    One thing I don't hope makes it into the MMO is the focus on realistic combat actions - that level of immersion works in an FPS however in an MMO where competition is involved useless delays in the name of immersion will frustrate people I'd wager. If it does, we'll see people running around everywhere weapons drawn to avoid delays.

    You mean like in Age of Conan, where realism rocked? Right............

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Well, at least ESO is more Elder Scrolls than SWG was Star Wars.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Well, at least ESO is more Elder Scrolls than SWG was Star Wars.

    Looks for a gif of boxxy to post......

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Well, at least ESO is more Elder Scrolls than SWG was Star Wars.

    Both teams made the sacrifices they saw fit to offer the design they wanted to offer. Arguing over the legitimacy of that design seems rather pointless to me. You like it or you don't.

    Originally posted by JJ82

    The entire post was an attempt to derail arguments against the idiocy of DaoCTES by using false arguments and statements.

    The entire post was one singular outlook on TES, that's going to be different from person to person, and good luck getting everyone to agree with one singular opinion on what a sandbox is. It just isn't going to happen, your personal feelings mean little to someone who disagrees, just as his seem to matter little to you. Nothing you're going to come up with will be original enough to change that, or make your opinions anymore true.

    You're not entitled to being right anymore than anyone else on matters of opinion.

     

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by JJ82

    The entire post was an attempt to derail arguments against the idiocy of DaoCTES by using false arguments and statements.

    The entire post was one singular outlook on TES, that's going to be different from person to person, and good luck getting everyone to agree with one singular opinion on what a sandbox is. It just isn't going to happen, your personal feelings mean little to someone who disagrees, just as his seem to matter little to you. Nothing you're going to come up with will be original enough to change that, or make your opinions anymore true.

    You're not entitled to being right anymore than anyone else on matters of opinion.

    Incorrect, he based his argument on people demanding NO QUESTS and 100% SANDBOX..........who? Who is demanding that for TESO?  When did sandbox and themepark become all-inclusive? There is no such thing as a 100% sandbox or 100% themepark game so acting as if someone expecting MORE sandbox and LESS themepark does not mean someone is demanding a 100% sandbox game.

    And stating that TESO should not be built around a magical PvP land behind invisible walls is also not asking for a TESO game with no PvP, nor is it asking for a FFA PvP game.

    Its an arugment based on assumptions and not what is actually being said, and it was done in a way to demean what is being said by others to prop up a weak argument.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • PyukPyuk Member UncommonPosts: 762
    There's such an avalanche of bad design decisions with ESO, I fully predict another SWTOR experience with this title. Will sell like gangbusters the first couple of months, then players will leave in droves, massive layoffs at Zenimax, and the inevitable F2P push ~6-8 months post launch. The devs at Zenima had the perfect title to turn into an open ended, sandbox MMO with ESO, but instead made the un-creative decision to make an also-ran experience that lands smack-dab in the middle of MMO mediocrity, using tropes every other fantasy MMO has beaten to death and selling it as new and wondrous.  Sit back and watch the bodies hit the floor.

    I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by JJ82

    The entire post was an attempt to derail arguments against the idiocy of DaoCTES by using false arguments and statements.

    The entire post was one singular outlook on TES, that's going to be different from person to person, and good luck getting everyone to agree with one singular opinion on what a sandbox is. It just isn't going to happen, your personal feelings mean little to someone who disagrees, just as his seem to matter little to you. Nothing you're going to come up with will be original enough to change that, or make your opinions anymore true.

    You're not entitled to being right anymore than anyone else on matters of opinion.

    Incorrect, he based his argument on people demanding NO QUESTS and 100% SANDBOX..........who? Who is demanding that for TESO?  When did sandbox and themepark become all-inclusive? There is no such thing as a 100% sandbox or 100% themepark game so acting as if someone expecting MORE sandbox and LESS themepark does not mean someone is demanding a 100% sandbox game.

    And stating that TESO should not be built around a magical PvP land behind invisible walls is also not asking for a TESO game with no PvP, nor is it asking for a FFA PvP game.

    Its an arugment based on assumptions and not what is actually being said, and it was done in a way to demean what is being said by others to prop up a weak argument.

    I just took that part as saying either of the two extremes would be labeled "not Skyrim". If I'm looking at the entire post. Which is how most posts should be viewed, he started by saying what the reaction would be for a full blown Sandbox. Explained why he felt that way and then ended it with saying he's sick of the two labels, most likely because of the baggage they carry.

    HE didn't say anything about people asking for that. That part is inferred by you maybe rightfully so, but who's to say one way or the other?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Member Posts: 906
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Well, at least ESO is more Elder Scrolls than SWG was Star Wars.

    The sims online was more sims than swg was star wars too if you are going to use that logic.

    Star wars fans say its the closest game so far. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by Distopia

    I just took that part as saying either of the two extremes would be labeled "not Skyrim". If I'm looking at the entire post. Which is how most posts should be viewed, he started by saying what the reaction would be for a full blown Sandbox. Explained why he felt that way and then ended it with saying he's sick of the two labels, most likely because of the baggage they carry.

    HE didn't say anything about people asking for that. That part is inferred by you maybe rightfully so, but who's to say one way or the other?

    When you follow up ASSuming people are going to react a way to a made up situation with a statement like "Only thing that makes Skyrim feel like a sandbox is the ability to go on the rides in whatever order you like" completely tossing out the ACTUAL sandbox features in it so you can then end it with "its always been a themepark design".......funny how that themepark design was also made hand in hand with the modding community AND Steam to make sure there was a modding store setup be just a themepark design? It isn't, because its both. Themepark with sandbox.

    And yeah, when you assume a reaction to a made up situation, the inferring is being done by YOU, not the person replying to you pointing it out.

    Just another post made to degrade anyone attempting to voice their opinion that isn't one of a person falling in line. How dare anyone form an opinion that isn't all positive, filled with sugar and spice and everything nice!

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Member UncommonPosts: 447

    When the NDA is lifted, you will know the REAL truth, you just have to wait a little while.

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