They've apparently got the money to spend, what difference does it make? Why are you so concerned with what other people do with their own money?
People tend to comment on what other people do especially if it's bizarre or stupid. If you were walking down the street and saw someone setting fire to money with a lighter you'd probably stop and stare and maybe make a comment. Even though it would be their money and you couldn't stop them. Same principle.
Yup, that's really the case. Personally, I ignore cosmetic items entirely, I don't even wear social armor and I don't care what my character looks like, the armor and weapons are there to do a job, not to look nice, but a lot of people seem to get off on showing off their stuff. That's one of the many jobs that F2P players providefor the whales who want someone to waggle their "pretty" e-peen at.
I'm a bit of an odd duck. I make decisions about "who" my character is, then play him accordingly, right down to the outfit he wears, but my "RP" ends there instead of extending into ridiculous /emote parties in taverns/cantinas. I'm still waiting for a MMO that actually responds to your in game choices to a great enough extent that you can feel like it even matters who you decide your character is. So far the only one that has even tried in any sense is TOR. Your mileage may vary on how well it succeeded. I would say fairly well inside the class stories, not at all outside them.
Whereas my character is simply a means to an end, it's a vehicle to enjoying the game. When playing Halo, for example, it's silly to roleplay Master Chief. I'm sure some people do it but I have no interest. I just want to play the game and consume the content and when I'm done, I don't miss not playing Master Chief, or my character, because I was never emotionally attached to either of them. They're just a prop.
But that's all beside the point. To bring things back to the topic, the perception of whales that other people seeing their gear matters somehow may arguably be a "service" free players provide, but I think it would be a stretch to argue that it's an important enough service to entitle them to complain about the level of free content in a game being insufficient. For every whiny, entitled free player, there are plenty of others just playing the game and not complaining on the internet to provide the gawker value to whales. Every one of the type of people who inspired this thread could stop playing right now, and it's likely that not one game would actually shut down or make any less money because of it.
We return to the fact that the developers simply do not require anyone to pay anything. If someone has a parade and you're told you can watch the parade for free, it seems really ridiculous to offer to pay for watching the parade. It's free. You can purchase things if you want but there is no expectation or requirement to do so. Now I agree that anyone who whines about playing a free game for free because they can't get the same content that someone who is paying can get is an idiot, but so too are the people who expect free players to play a free game by paying for it. Neither side has anything to complain about and neither side's arguments make any sense.
They've apparently got the money to spend, what difference does it make? Why are you so concerned with what other people do with their own money?
People tend to comment on what other people do especially if it's bizarre or stupid. If you were walking down the street and saw someone setting fire to money with a lighter you'd probably stop and stare and maybe make a comment. Even though it would be their money and you couldn't stop them. Same principle.
Why is it bizarre or stupid? How is it any more bizarre or stupid than people who like old-school games, people who like FFA PvP, people who want permadeath, or anything else? I understand debating over personal preferences, etc., but to attack anyone who plays a game the way the developers offer the game to be played seems rather ridiculous.
Whereas my character is simply a means to an end, it's a vehicle to enjoying the game. When playing Halo, for example, it's silly to roleplay Master Chief. I'm sure some people do it but I have no interest. I just want to play the game and consume the content and when I'm done, I don't miss not playing Master Chief, or my character, because I was never emotionally attached to either of them. They're just a prop.
We return to the fact that the developers simply do not require anyone to pay anything. If someone has a parade and you're told you can watch the parade for free, it seems really ridiculous to offer to pay for watching the parade. It's free. You can purchase things if you want but there is no expectation or requirement to do so. Now I agree that anyone who whines about playing a free game for free because they can't get the same content that someone who is paying can get is an idiot, but so too are the people who expect free players to play a free game by paying for it. Neither side has anything to complain about and neither side's arguments make any sense.
Obviously it depends on the game. I don't bother getting a feel for who my character is unless there is actually some form of choice in the game. If it's just a paperdoll to hang equipment on, there is no point.
I don't really think the basic premise of this thread was about whether people should pay; I think it was about whether it was reasonable for those who choose not to pay to complain about the quality/quantity of what they get for free.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Why is it bizarre or stupid? How is it any more bizarre or stupid than people who like old-school games, people who like FFA PvP, people who want permadeath, or anything else? I understand debating over personal preferences, etc., but to attack anyone who plays a game the way the developers offer the game to be played seems rather ridiculous.
Spending $500 on a virtual sword in a text MUD? You don't think that's inherently stupid? I mean someone can just literally press a button and say "you have this" and it has no value to them outside the game and they're still willing to work for 10-20 hours (or more) to get that? To me they may as well just flush money down the toilet.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.Any other questions?
How? Freeloaders seldom stay put in one spot long enough to oggle another player's equipment. This also requires them to pay attention to someone other than themself, maybe even read a chat box, or just plain care.
My point is, most freeloader F2P players care not one whit about the world the play in, the other players in that world, or any attempt at community building. They are present only to beat the game and move on - for FREE. What you propose requires interaction with others. I just find that hard to imagine.
I am sure there are freeloaders here and there that buck my assumption, maybe even as high of a ratio as whales to freeloaders, but MOST freeloaders provide absolutely ZERO content (outside of PvP) for other players that a cheaper, easier NPC that may even have a dialogue box for a player could provide.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by AlBQuirky What else is there to do in LoL? You use a TOTALLY PvP game (not an MMO) for illustration. OK. World of Tanks would have been a better, albeit less successful MMO example.So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Why should there be anything other than pvp? Pvp is a pretty common feature in MMOs. Many (or even most) have it. Some games (as you pointed out LoL, WoT, and i would add PS2) are nothing but pvp.And how is NPCs cheaper? How much does it cost to develop and operate a NPC that will pass the turing test in a MMO?And how about free players can be people to group with? People to show off to? People in your guild? People you can chat with (i don't play games to social, but there are those who do)?
I admit that there are those that may do some things. *You* admittedly are not one of them. I am thinking that you are "the norm", not the exception, though I could be wrong.
I see you riding on the coattails (just like the whales) of the freeloaders that do things you admittedly do not to make yourself feel like you are some kind of content.
When *you* say that you do actual content providing, I'll rethink my position, for you seem to be the very player MMOs are trying to entice to play their games these days.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by AlBQuirky What else is there to do in LoL? You use a TOTALLY PvP game (not an MMO) for illustration. OK. World of Tanks would have been a better, albeit less successful MMO example.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Why should there be anything other than pvp? Pvp is a pretty common feature in MMOs. Many (or even most) have it. Some games (as you pointed out LoL, WoT, and i would add PS2) are nothing but pvp.
And how is NPCs cheaper? How much does it cost to develop and operate a NPC that will pass the turing test in a MMO?
And how about free players can be people to group with? People to show off to? People in your guild? People you can chat with (i don't play games to social, but there are those who do)?
I admit that there are those that may do some things. *You* admittedly are not one of them. I am thinking that you are "the norm", not the exception, though I could be wrong.
I see you riding on the coattails (just like the whales) of the freeloaders that do things you admittedly do not to make yourself feel like you are some kind of content.
When *you* say that you do actual content providing, I'll rethink my position, for you seem to be the very player MMOs are trying to entice to play their games these days.
No, i am not one of them. But so what? MMOs are games for the masses, and the devs cannot hope to make every free player content for paying customers. But if they can make 90%, or even 70% of the free players content ... they are ok.
The additional costs of having one more player is so cheap that they can have some true free loaders .. who are not paying nor being content.
And if you think they are trying to entice only me .. you are wrong. If so, those games will have a) a lot less social functions (since i don't use them), and b) less pvp content.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Free players provide eyes for the whales to show off to with their cosmetic items, providing them with a reason to buy more cosmetic items. A lot of people in MMOs are there to show off, as pathetic as I personally think that is.
Any other questions?
Cosmetic? F2P is also know for P2P, and what they buy isn't cosmetic. ^-^
Remember in that MuD I played, they'd fork over $5000 for an axe...I kid you not. Text, no graphics, $5000 axe. Woah to anyone who didn't remember binding when logging on for the day!
They've apparently got the money to spend, what difference does it make? Why are you so concerned with what other people do with their own money?
It's to let you know, and to stop the "cosmetic" cascade that was rolling.
It worked!
These topics have the usual themes and usual rhetoric after the nth year. Folks can argue the points in their sleep at this stage now, and pick up the same keywords to refute!
Originally posted by AlBQuirky What else is there to do in LoL? You use a TOTALLY PvP game (not an MMO) for illustration. OK. World of Tanks would have been a better, albeit less successful MMO example.
So... OTHER than PvP, what is there? In a F2P MMO that has no PvP (is there such a game?), what "content" do freeloaders provide? Otherwise, all "content" freeloaders provide can be more easily and cheaply provided with NPCs, right?
Why should there be anything other than pvp? Pvp is a pretty common feature in MMOs. Many (or even most) have it. Some games (as you pointed out LoL, WoT, and i would add PS2) are nothing but pvp.
And how is NPCs cheaper? How much does it cost to develop and operate a NPC that will pass the turing test in a MMO?
And how about free players can be people to group with? People to show off to? People in your guild? People you can chat with (i don't play games to social, but there are those who do)?
I admit that there are those that may do some things. *You* admittedly are not one of them. I am thinking that you are "the norm", not the exception, though I could be wrong.
I see you riding on the coattails (just like the whales) of the freeloaders that do things you admittedly do not to make yourself feel like you are some kind of content.
When *you* say that you do actual content providing, I'll rethink my position, for you seem to be the very player MMOs are trying to entice to play their games these days.
I forgot I had him on ignore years ago. Had to be a reason, yep!
We just see the end of other players cloaks flashing passed us in PvE these days. So none of us are providing any "content" at all unless you are doing something meaningful. Be it crafting items that you sell, grouping or being a guild officer or the like. If you are doing nothing like that you are providing about as much 'content' as a tavern table. In PvP you could argue that we all offer some 'content' to one another.
But in a P2P or B2P game we offer each other this "content" as well, that's what multiplayer is all about, and we don't need a justification for being there. Next thing you know these F2P lovers will be wanting to be paid to play!
I do with a smile like the idea that they think their joining the game adds "content" by their mere presence, but sorry it don't.
We just see the end of other players cloaks flashing passed us in PvE these days. So none of us are providing any "content" at all unless you are doing something meaningful. Be it crafting items that you sell, grouping or being a guild officer or the like. If you are doing nothing like that you are providing about as much 'content' as a tavern table. In PvP you could argue that we all offer some 'content' to one another.
But in a P2P or B2P game we offer each other this "content" as well, that's what multiplayer is all about, and we don't need a justification for being there. Next thing you know these F2P lovers will be wanting to be paid to play!
I do with a smile like the idea that they think their joining the game adds "content" by their mere presence, but sorry it don't.
PvP is the problem for the most part in that attitude, though.
Like in WoW, the PvE side is more inclined to want to be part of the game and GIVING to the game. They also want to build on their toons, give them an identity, and develop their toons over the long term -- plus they are more likely to gem and enchant! How is that important? They play the game for it's worth.
PvP side it's just a race to clock kills, and their toons reflect it. Trash geared, no gems and enchants and careless in being a part of the community as a whole. They talk the talk, but don't want to walk the walk. It's all about DPS, all about 5:1 kills (and often at 3am, but god do they talk trash like they hit 4k in arena while doing it...no different in other MMOs with PvP).
I don't know where these kids come from, or F2P is the disease that turns them into trashy players, but the influx of half baked toons for "free frills and kills" cheapens games, especially MMORPGs, where character development is it's highlight. To see that in EvE even, a game where skills were suppose to matter, just makes me log out in frustration. Cheap this, cheap that, cheapen everything for their cheapness in the process. They don't even think of the consequences, and what is offered in return.
Why is it bizarre or stupid? How is it any more bizarre or stupid than people who like old-school games, people who like FFA PvP, people who want permadeath, or anything else? I understand debating over personal preferences, etc., but to attack anyone who plays a game the way the developers offer the game to be played seems rather ridiculous.
Spending $500 on a virtual sword in a text MUD? You don't think that's inherently stupid? I mean someone can just literally press a button and say "you have this" and it has no value to them outside the game and they're still willing to work for 10-20 hours (or more) to get that? To me they may as well just flush money down the toilet.
It's no stupider than spending 40 hours a week playing an online game IMO. If someone has the money to spend $5000 on an imaginary sword, what business is that of yours? It's not your money.
Why is it bizarre or stupid? How is it any more bizarre or stupid than people who like old-school games, people who like FFA PvP, people who want permadeath, or anything else? I understand debating over personal preferences, etc., but to attack anyone who plays a game the way the developers offer the game to be played seems rather ridiculous.
Spending $500 on a virtual sword in a text MUD? You don't think that's inherently stupid? I mean someone can just literally press a button and say "you have this" and it has no value to them outside the game and they're still willing to work for 10-20 hours (or more) to get that? To me they may as well just flush money down the toilet.
It's no stupider than spending 40 hours a week playing an online game IMO. If someone has the money to spend $5000 on an imaginary sword, what business is that of yours? It's not your money.
In that MuD I mentioned, that was an example of P2P, and most people understand what it does with games...and it's not only nice, not fair, as there's no ingame equivalent. Those who P2P to that extent don't really want to cooperate and play with others, they just want to play "king of the hill". They just need a trophy game to themselves, instead.
Character buying is different, since people have a choice to level and bypass the pricetag themselves if they want. That's not possible with game breaking weapons for "founders" and the like.
I never approve of weapons/gear to be bought, and despite in games like EQII epics could be bought, never did it as to me it cheapens the reason for having epics. If it's in the game, it can be farmed. Out of game stuff -- that's not game breaking -- it's okay as long as there's an equivalent ingame and can be farmed reasonably. Gear/weapons/new abilities have to be able to be gotten in game, with the same stats, otherwise the game is a trophy game and should be regarded as such.
And come to think of it, it would be nice that there was a MMORPG that allowed custom ordering of gear to their taste (within the design of the game of course, but allowing custom "tailoring" of textures/colors/metals and flourishes) as "cosmetic" pieces. That's a feature developers can get money from, and truly make epic characters (and fund the art department!). I like that idea a lot because in character development "looking good" is as important as the achieves and raiding until the cows come home...and those custom pieces aren't recycled for new greens in the next expansion. -_-
Like start off with a template of shapes, and let the buyer pick the other aspects, with the ability to buy a whole set or pieces as they choose. Depending on the time/effort involved will set the pricing for it.
Then shooting hours of videos for machinas and more would be w-e-l-l worth it to go with the pre-leveled characters!
Originally posted by nariusseldon No, i am not one of them. But so what? MMOs are games for the masses, and the devs cannot hope to make every free player content for paying customers. But if they can make 90%, or even 70% of the free players content ... they are ok.The additional costs of having one more player is so cheap that they can have some true free loaders .. who are not paying nor being content.And if you think they are trying to entice only me .. you are wrong. If so, those games will have a) a lot less social functions (since i don't use them), and b) less pvp content.
It just blows my mind that you are the targeted audience. You do not pay. You do not provide content, other than PvP. Why do these companies want you as a customer? They most certainly do because all their games are geared towards your preferred gameplay. It just flabbergasts me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by nariusseldon No, i am not one of them. But so what? MMOs are games for the masses, and the devs cannot hope to make every free player content for paying customers. But if they can make 90%, or even 70% of the free players content ... they are ok.
The additional costs of having one more player is so cheap that they can have some true free loaders .. who are not paying nor being content.
And if you think they are trying to entice only me .. you are wrong. If so, those games will have a) a lot less social functions (since i don't use them), and b) less pvp content.
It just blows my mind that you are the targeted audience. You do not pay. You do not provide content, other than PvP. Why do these companies want you as a customer? They most certainly do because all their games are geared towards your preferred gameplay. It just flabbergasts me.
Again, why do you think i am the targeted audience? In fact, it is pretty obvious that i am not.
The F2P market is doing well. I contributed nothing and only leeched fun from it. So it stands to reason that they are catering to someone else. It is just that my taste is similar enough to have fun.
You are confused between correlation (that my preferences matches those games), and causation (they targeted me).
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Originally posted by nariusseldon No, i am not one of them. But so what? MMOs are games for the masses, and the devs cannot hope to make every free player content for paying customers. But if they can make 90%, or even 70% of the free players content ... they are ok.The additional costs of having one more player is so cheap that they can have some true free loaders .. who are not paying nor being content.And if you think they are trying to entice only me .. you are wrong. If so, those games will have a) a lot less social functions (since i don't use them), and b) less pvp content.
It just blows my mind that you are the targeted audience. You do not pay. You do not provide content, other than PvP. Why do these companies want you as a customer? They most certainly do because all their games are geared towards your preferred gameplay. It just flabbergasts me.
They offer free content because they make more money that way. If letting people play for free means making more money than charging everyone to play, that's was a rational developer will do.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
They offer free content because they make more money that way. If letting people play for free means making more money than charging everyone to play, that's was a rational developer will do.
And whatever they are doing clearly works. There may be a lot of free players but certainly they also get the whales. I highly doubt any game can get enough whales without the free players.
But bey, feel free to prove me wrong. Show me a game with only whales and no free players.
Comments
People tend to comment on what other people do especially if it's bizarre or stupid. If you were walking down the street and saw someone setting fire to money with a lighter you'd probably stop and stare and maybe make a comment. Even though it would be their money and you couldn't stop them. Same principle.
Whereas my character is simply a means to an end, it's a vehicle to enjoying the game. When playing Halo, for example, it's silly to roleplay Master Chief. I'm sure some people do it but I have no interest. I just want to play the game and consume the content and when I'm done, I don't miss not playing Master Chief, or my character, because I was never emotionally attached to either of them. They're just a prop.
We return to the fact that the developers simply do not require anyone to pay anything. If someone has a parade and you're told you can watch the parade for free, it seems really ridiculous to offer to pay for watching the parade. It's free. You can purchase things if you want but there is no expectation or requirement to do so. Now I agree that anyone who whines about playing a free game for free because they can't get the same content that someone who is paying can get is an idiot, but so too are the people who expect free players to play a free game by paying for it. Neither side has anything to complain about and neither side's arguments make any sense.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Why is it bizarre or stupid? How is it any more bizarre or stupid than people who like old-school games, people who like FFA PvP, people who want permadeath, or anything else? I understand debating over personal preferences, etc., but to attack anyone who plays a game the way the developers offer the game to be played seems rather ridiculous.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Obviously it depends on the game. I don't bother getting a feel for who my character is unless there is actually some form of choice in the game. If it's just a paperdoll to hang equipment on, there is no point.
I don't really think the basic premise of this thread was about whether people should pay; I think it was about whether it was reasonable for those who choose not to pay to complain about the quality/quantity of what they get for free.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Spending $500 on a virtual sword in a text MUD? You don't think that's inherently stupid? I mean someone can just literally press a button and say "you have this" and it has no value to them outside the game and they're still willing to work for 10-20 hours (or more) to get that? To me they may as well just flush money down the toilet.
My point is, most freeloader F2P players care not one whit about the world the play in, the other players in that world, or any attempt at community building. They are present only to beat the game and move on - for FREE. What you propose requires interaction with others. I just find that hard to imagine.
I am sure there are freeloaders here and there that buck my assumption, maybe even as high of a ratio as whales to freeloaders, but MOST freeloaders provide absolutely ZERO content (outside of PvP) for other players that a cheaper, easier NPC that may even have a dialogue box for a player could provide.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I see you riding on the coattails (just like the whales) of the freeloaders that do things you admittedly do not to make yourself feel like you are some kind of content.
When *you* say that you do actual content providing, I'll rethink my position, for you seem to be the very player MMOs are trying to entice to play their games these days.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
No, i am not one of them. But so what? MMOs are games for the masses, and the devs cannot hope to make every free player content for paying customers. But if they can make 90%, or even 70% of the free players content ... they are ok.
The additional costs of having one more player is so cheap that they can have some true free loaders .. who are not paying nor being content.
And if you think they are trying to entice only me .. you are wrong. If so, those games will have a) a lot less social functions (since i don't use them), and b) less pvp content.
It's to let you know, and to stop the "cosmetic" cascade that was rolling.
It worked!
These topics have the usual themes and usual rhetoric after the nth year. Folks can argue the points in their sleep at this stage now, and pick up the same keywords to refute!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I forgot I had him on ignore years ago.
Had to be a reason, yep!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
We just see the end of other players cloaks flashing passed us in PvE these days. So none of us are providing any "content" at all unless you are doing something meaningful. Be it crafting items that you sell, grouping or being a guild officer or the like. If you are doing nothing like that you are providing about as much 'content' as a tavern table. In PvP you could argue that we all offer some 'content' to one another.
But in a P2P or B2P game we offer each other this "content" as well, that's what multiplayer is all about, and we don't need a justification for being there. Next thing you know these F2P lovers will be wanting to be paid to play!
I do with a smile like the idea that they think their joining the game adds "content" by their mere presence, but sorry it don't.
PvP is the problem for the most part in that attitude, though.
Like in WoW, the PvE side is more inclined to want to be part of the game and GIVING to the game. They also want to build on their toons, give them an identity, and develop their toons over the long term -- plus they are more likely to gem and enchant! How is that important? They play the game for it's worth.
PvP side it's just a race to clock kills, and their toons reflect it. Trash geared, no gems and enchants and careless in being a part of the community as a whole. They talk the talk, but don't want to walk the walk. It's all about DPS, all about 5:1 kills (and often at 3am, but god do they talk trash like they hit 4k in arena while doing it...no different in other MMOs with PvP).
I don't know where these kids come from, or F2P is the disease that turns them into trashy players, but the influx of half baked toons for "free frills and kills" cheapens games, especially MMORPGs, where character development is it's highlight. To see that in EvE even, a game where skills were suppose to matter, just makes me log out in frustration. Cheap this, cheap that, cheapen everything for their cheapness in the process. They don't even think of the consequences, and what is offered in return.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
It's no stupider than spending 40 hours a week playing an online game IMO. If someone has the money to spend $5000 on an imaginary sword, what business is that of yours? It's not your money.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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Hope: None
In that MuD I mentioned, that was an example of P2P, and most people understand what it does with games...and it's not only nice, not fair, as there's no ingame equivalent. Those who P2P to that extent don't really want to cooperate and play with others, they just want to play "king of the hill". They just need a trophy game to themselves, instead.
Character buying is different, since people have a choice to level and bypass the pricetag themselves if they want. That's not possible with game breaking weapons for "founders" and the like.
I never approve of weapons/gear to be bought, and despite in games like EQII epics could be bought, never did it as to me it cheapens the reason for having epics. If it's in the game, it can be farmed. Out of game stuff -- that's not game breaking -- it's okay as long as there's an equivalent ingame and can be farmed reasonably. Gear/weapons/new abilities have to be able to be gotten in game, with the same stats, otherwise the game is a trophy game and should be regarded as such.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
And come to think of it, it would be nice that there was a MMORPG that allowed custom ordering of gear to their taste (within the design of the game of course, but allowing custom "tailoring" of textures/colors/metals and flourishes) as "cosmetic" pieces. That's a feature developers can get money from, and truly make epic characters (and fund the art department!). I like that idea a lot because in character development "looking good" is as important as the achieves and raiding until the cows come home...and those custom pieces aren't recycled for new greens in the next expansion. -_-
Like start off with a template of shapes, and let the buyer pick the other aspects, with the ability to buy a whole set or pieces as they choose. Depending on the time/effort involved will set the pricing for it.
Then shooting hours of videos for machinas and more would be w-e-l-l worth it to go with the pre-leveled characters!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Again, why do you think i am the targeted audience? In fact, it is pretty obvious that i am not.
The F2P market is doing well. I contributed nothing and only leeched fun from it. So it stands to reason that they are catering to someone else. It is just that my taste is similar enough to have fun.
You are confused between correlation (that my preferences matches those games), and causation (they targeted me).
They offer free content because they make more money that way. If letting people play for free means making more money than charging everyone to play, that's was a rational developer will do.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
And whatever they are doing clearly works. There may be a lot of free players but certainly they also get the whales. I highly doubt any game can get enough whales without the free players.
But bey, feel free to prove me wrong. Show me a game with only whales and no free players.