Sure, too bad its such a lore breaker. The Empire is is taken over ONCE during the second age, by Septim at the end of it.
One of the worst IPs for this design.
All hail Legolaszzss the first.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I don't think it's a lore-breaker because the last Emperor dying in Oblivion is what set this up.
Also, I don't see how guilds will have an undue influence: the emperor will be the player in the faction with the highest RvR score, so it will be someone who fought in the RvR battles, but not necessarily a player in a guild that is responsible for that faction's victory.
I highly doubt the "emperor" is the special sauce that will make this game a success. First of all it did not really work for Archlord. Secondly you can not guarantee it would go to a player the majority of the participants would cheer for, it's the guy who has collected the most points. Thirdly how hard will it be to capture all towers? Will towers flip as easy as they are flipped in GW2? Or is it as hard a nutcupping alliance holding to a city in Darkfall?In the case of GW2, we will see like 10 new emperors a day, in the case of Darkfall it might take a month or six till a side captures everything (so 1 emperor in 6 months?)
Sounds a little like the idea CU had with people being able to be specific NPCs to fight off people in their pvp dungeon, to where only one person could be a certain NPC a little.
This is great. Sounds very cool. It's about time that they start putting things into MMO's again that everyone can't attain. So lame when everyone is the "super hero". I say this as someone who will never even be able to get close to that title. Step in the right direction imo. :-)
So in other words solo players will never gain the title as Emperor unless they play way more than Guilds and groups of people do, seems like a very awesome idea but at the same time Guilds will always be on top vs average players who will never get this spot light, unless you can some how out score Guilds I don't see many people ever getting that title.
So in other words solo players will never gain the title as Emperor unless they play way more than Guilds and groups of people do, seems like a very awesome idea but at the same time Guilds will always be on top vs average players who will never get this spot light, unless you can some how out score Guilds I don't see many people ever getting that title.
Which is the entire point... Solo players shouldn't be able to become Emperor. It doesn't have to be equal. Especially not when it comes to an entire guild, vs 1 person. That solo person should join a guild, and try to further him/herself to become Emperor, if he or she wants that :-)
It sounds like it is even worse than the Jedi thing was in SWG. At least more than one player could become a Jedi, it was difficult but not limited like it sounds to be here. Granted you can just conquer the seat from the opponent, but....
It is difficult to imaging that such a system would work for any other than the 24/7 hardcore players.
The biggest problem in that is that, such players will probably not want another theme park, will they?
I'm not to sure I'm keen on the idea of giving one person that title. I think its going to breed a lot of griefing and exploiting which will in turn probably make the community just bitter towards each other. I think the throne is just one gimmick they should seriously re-think, among other things...
"How significant do you think the Emperor feature will be in driving RvR competition?"
There will always be a handful of highly dedicated, competitive guilds that will spend an inordinate amount of time doing -something- for bragging rights. Usually it's raiding, but in this case it will be in RvR. To those few players who have the time and desire, this will be the cherry on their RvR cake that they will clamber for.
For the rest of the players, it won't even be an afterthought because of the job you will have to make the game for it to be attainable.
So, for the 1% that care about this carrot, sure, it will matter. For everyone else? There are other motivators to be out engaging in RvR, but being Emperor isn't one of them.
I think you hit the nail on the head there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by seldin Being Emperor sounds great but is an unattainable by what 99.9999999% of the player base. I see this as something that only those who seem to play 24/7 will achieve.
I agree.
Yah, reminds me of WoW and High Warlord title in the old, decaying, honor system... multiple people were grinding 24/7 on one char.
Born from blood, trained to kill, ready to die, but never will!
Being a casual PvE player myself, having to share gaming with a real life, the idea of losing access to my 'homebase' sucks as I will probably do a fair bit of crafting and trade... PvP is great for all the folks that can afford 12 hour stints online.
Certainly, I'm not interested in the game if it allows for immature groups of guys ganging up on newbies, because they can (as boasted by some WoW players)...
So the idea of a Grand Poo Bah is ridiculous, as mentioned, because certain guilds who do nothing but play PvP will devise a method of holding the advantage it may offer.
if I remember correctly Players did not respond well to the capitol lockout in WAR because they were not able to defend their capitol in the first place. Once a faction drove the PvP campaign so far that they were able to attack a capitol, the actual attack of it was PvE only... I might be wrong though, it's been quite a long time...
also, I disagree with your assumption that Realm Pride doesn't work anymore. I think it works quite well, but hasn't been implemented correctly for a long time. Realm pride functions if you have realm exclusive races and classes, because you define your faction by having it's own visual identity.
If, however, it is implemented like in GW2, where every faction has the same races and classes it will not work. The difference between you and them is only in Name and the colour of your armour.
Originally posted by seldin Being Emperor sounds great but is an unattainable by what 99.9999999% of the player base. I see this as something that only those who seem to play 24/7 will achieve.
I agree.
Even if you or I don't become Emperor, having other players striving for it improves the RvR experience for everyone by giving people a compelling reason to compete.
I disagree with you. I feel absolutely no compulsion in helping one character played 24/7 by a guild who take the game way too seriously to achieve something that the rest of the players have no way of achieving. If the devs want to give me a reason to cleave heads then have me fighting for faction-wide bonuses that aid all of the players in my faction ( or alliance if you want to use TESO's term for it ).
It is obvious that they have taken some pointers from DAoC and that game had no reason to stick a single character on a pedestal, neither should TESO. How about some high value dungeon access as a goal like Darkness Falls in DAoC. These things are worth fighting for. A guilds ego and bragging rights? No.
Sounds pretty cheesy to me..... more like a bad parody of the board game, JUNTA then something I'd expect to see in the Elder Scrolls Universe.... but alot of folks seem to think they've already jumped the shark from a lore perspective.
From a game play perspective it seems kinda gimmicky as well. I could see a game focused on Realm vs Realm PvP giving certain bonuses to the entire Realm for taking and holding certain strategic positions.... something like discounts buying/selling from NPC Merchants, Faster Travel, A small morale buff in combat. That would make everyone in the Realm feel good about thier side doing well in the Realm vs Realm contest.....this strikes me as nothing more then incentivizing "leader-board and e-peen" mentality. Something that normaly lends itself to fostering toxic communities.
Sounds pretty cheesy to me..... more like a bad parody of the board game, JUNTA then something I'd expect to see in the Elder Scrolls Universe.... but alot of folks seem to think they've already jumped the shark from a lore perspective.
From a game play perspective it seems kinda gimmicky as well. I could see a game focused on Realm vs Realm PvP giving certain bonuses to the entire Realm for taking and holding certain strategic positions.... something like discounts buying/selling from NPC Merchants, Faster Travel, A small morale buff in combat. That would make everyone in the Realm feel good about thier side doing well in the Realm vs Realm contest.....this strikes me as nothing more then incentivizing "leader-board and e-peen" mentality. Something that normaly lends itself to fostering toxic communities.
Come on, one person being Emperor is not what the entire realm is fighting for. Some will care, others won't. What's the big deal if some guy plays 24/7 along with his guild to get that status? I just don't understand why so many feel that either everyone must get it, or none can. Exactly this, is one of the reason a lot of games are so damn boring, in my opinion.
Also note that I'm not specifically talking to you, but in general. There's a lot of people in this thread who seem so heavily set against it. I suppose I just don't follow the mentality of "if I can't get it, no one should".
this is a very cool concept- reminds me of gw2 innovations. and as cool as eveonlines owning a capital ship...many of you wouldnt understand this concept coming from world of warcraft..etc.
much beter than- 'oh lets give them a legendary'...
Sounds pretty cheesy to me..... more like a bad parody of the board game, JUNTA then something I'd expect to see in the Elder Scrolls Universe.... but alot of folks seem to think they've already jumped the shark from a lore perspective.
From a game play perspective it seems kinda gimmicky as well. I could see a game focused on Realm vs Realm PvP giving certain bonuses to the entire Realm for taking and holding certain strategic positions.... something like discounts buying/selling from NPC Merchants, Faster Travel, A small morale buff in combat. That would make everyone in the Realm feel good about thier side doing well in the Realm vs Realm contest.....this strikes me as nothing more then incentivizing "leader-board and e-peen" mentality. Something that normaly lends itself to fostering toxic communities.
Come on, one person being Emperor is not what the entire realm is fighting for. Some will care, others won't. What's the big deal if some guy plays 24/7 along with his guild to get that status? I just don't understand why so many feel that either everyone must get it, or none can. Exactly this, is one of the reason a lot of games are so damn boring, in my opinion.
Also note that I'm not specifically talking to you, but in general. There's a lot of people in this thread who seem so heavily set against it. I suppose I just don't follow the mentality of "if I can't get it, no one should".
It's the same issue that many FPS games that have leaderboards even with no mechanical benefit face.....because it no longer becomes about trying to get your side to win, it becomes about mechanicaly manipulating the game to try to get individual high-score and hope by chance that the rest of the folks on your side weren't playing that same game and actualy did what was neccesary to get a win. It encourages cheesy tactics like spawn camping....or even having guild-mates try to astro-turf other players on your own side so they don't end up getting high score. Realm vs Realm really is supposed to be a cooperative endevour...not a race for a single player to get high-score. It ends up being a bad mechanic that works against both community and the gameplay goal of what Realm vs Realm should be about. That's aside from the lore considerations.
I'm really not bothered by the some people get to be Kings, Jedi, etc and others get to be pawns aspect of things....it can be perfectly fun playing a pawn....it's the encouraging people to be selfish, meta-game and generaly behave like @#$hats so that they can get an individual reward when everyone on a side should really be working toward a common goal. If you really want to give someone some special, hard to achieve individual reward then the PvE or even some sort of arena PvP (free for all) style play is a better venue for doing that.
its funny how we all play games with 'lore' revolving protecting a 'kingdom higher archy'. in movies we see, it in games,books..etc.
but when it becomes something in real time (involving protecting a player whos emperor) everyone is like- oh noess!!! the game is ruined-why should one person get a special entitlement...
i think this is the kind of intuition pvp needs in an mmo nowadays- last i checked 'mmo' meant massively multiplayer online?...
Sure, it's a cool concept that is misplaced here and goes against the grain of what they say they want to create. I disagree with your assessment that this feature is some form of incentive to the typical, casual, MMORPG player this title "claims" to be aimed at. It's actually the kind of thing I feel is better suited to a MMOFPS or a MOBA rather than an RPG and there simply isn't a lot of common ground. You can't be everything to everyone and the average former WOW player they "claim" to want to attract will be more interested in personal progression rather than earning competition titles..
I actually think the emperor idea will discourage folks from even bothering with PvP. Ex: Attempt to get into PvP realize you need to give up your whole life to get one of those top spots, don't bother. So if your real motivator is that reward I see it as more discouraging than not.
Worth mentioning, each Cyrodil "Campaign" or instance gets its own Emperor so enjoy being Emperor 9999999 of Campaign 1d3532kd939040.
Comments
Sure, too bad its such a lore breaker. The Empire is is taken over ONCE during the second age, by Septim at the end of it.
One of the worst IPs for this design.
All hail Legolaszzss the first.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I don't think it's a lore-breaker because the last Emperor dying in Oblivion is what set this up.
Also, I don't see how guilds will have an undue influence: the emperor will be the player in the faction with the highest RvR score, so it will be someone who fought in the RvR battles, but not necessarily a player in a guild that is responsible for that faction's victory.
I highly doubt the "emperor" is the special sauce that will make this game a success. First of all it did not really work for Archlord. Secondly you can not guarantee it would go to a player the majority of the participants would cheer for, it's the guy who has collected the most points. Thirdly how hard will it be to capture all towers? Will towers flip as easy as they are flipped in GW2? Or is it as hard a nutcupping alliance holding to a city in Darkfall?In the case of GW2, we will see like 10 new emperors a day, in the case of Darkfall it might take a month or six till a side captures everything (so 1 emperor in 6 months?)
So in other words solo players will never gain the title as Emperor unless they play way more than Guilds and groups of people do, seems like a very awesome idea but at the same time Guilds will always be on top vs average players who will never get this spot light, unless you can some how out score Guilds I don't see many people ever getting that title.
Which is the entire point... Solo players shouldn't be able to become Emperor. It doesn't have to be equal. Especially not when it comes to an entire guild, vs 1 person. That solo person should join a guild, and try to further him/herself to become Emperor, if he or she wants that :-)
I dont know how the system is implemented, but...
It sounds like it is even worse than the Jedi thing was in SWG. At least more than one player could become a Jedi, it was difficult but not limited like it sounds to be here. Granted you can just conquer the seat from the opponent, but....
It is difficult to imaging that such a system would work for any other than the 24/7 hardcore players.
The biggest problem in that is that, such players will probably not want another theme park, will they?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Yep, a Guild will find a lock on this Emperor thing, devise an in-guild system to "pass it around" to thus encapsulate their power ad naseum.
I think you hit the nail on the head there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yah, reminds me of WoW and High Warlord title in the old, decaying, honor system... multiple people were grinding 24/7 on one char.
Born from blood,
trained to kill,
ready to die,
but never will!
Being a casual PvE player myself, having to share gaming with a real life, the idea of losing access to my 'homebase' sucks as I will probably do a fair bit of crafting and trade... PvP is great for all the folks that can afford 12 hour stints online.
Certainly, I'm not interested in the game if it allows for immature groups of guys ganging up on newbies, because they can (as boasted by some WoW players)...
So the idea of a Grand Poo Bah is ridiculous, as mentioned, because certain guilds who do nothing but play PvP will devise a method of holding the advantage it may offer.
@ MikeB
if I remember correctly Players did not respond well to the capitol lockout in WAR because they were not able to defend their capitol in the first place. Once a faction drove the PvP campaign so far that they were able to attack a capitol, the actual attack of it was PvE only... I might be wrong though, it's been quite a long time...
also, I disagree with your assumption that Realm Pride doesn't work anymore. I think it works quite well, but hasn't been implemented correctly for a long time. Realm pride functions if you have realm exclusive races and classes, because you define your faction by having it's own visual identity.
If, however, it is implemented like in GW2, where every faction has the same races and classes it will not work. The difference between you and them is only in Name and the colour of your armour.
I disagree with you. I feel absolutely no compulsion in helping one character played 24/7 by a guild who take the game way too seriously to achieve something that the rest of the players have no way of achieving. If the devs want to give me a reason to cleave heads then have me fighting for faction-wide bonuses that aid all of the players in my faction ( or alliance if you want to use TESO's term for it ).
It is obvious that they have taken some pointers from DAoC and that game had no reason to stick a single character on a pedestal, neither should TESO. How about some high value dungeon access as a goal like Darkness Falls in DAoC. These things are worth fighting for. A guilds ego and bragging rights? No.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Sounds pretty cheesy to me..... more like a bad parody of the board game, JUNTA then something I'd expect to see in the Elder Scrolls Universe.... but alot of folks seem to think they've already jumped the shark from a lore perspective.
From a game play perspective it seems kinda gimmicky as well. I could see a game focused on Realm vs Realm PvP giving certain bonuses to the entire Realm for taking and holding certain strategic positions.... something like discounts buying/selling from NPC Merchants, Faster Travel, A small morale buff in combat. That would make everyone in the Realm feel good about thier side doing well in the Realm vs Realm contest.....this strikes me as nothing more then incentivizing "leader-board and e-peen" mentality. Something that normaly lends itself to fostering toxic communities.
Come on, one person being Emperor is not what the entire realm is fighting for. Some will care, others won't. What's the big deal if some guy plays 24/7 along with his guild to get that status? I just don't understand why so many feel that either everyone must get it, or none can. Exactly this, is one of the reason a lot of games are so damn boring, in my opinion.
Also note that I'm not specifically talking to you, but in general. There's a lot of people in this thread who seem so heavily set against it. I suppose I just don't follow the mentality of "if I can't get it, no one should".
played beta this weekend-
was alot of fun, actually iam looking forward to this mmo!...i played skyrim so...
this is a very cool concept- reminds me of gw2 innovations. and as cool as eveonlines owning a capital ship...many of you wouldnt understand this concept coming from world of warcraft..etc.
much beter than- 'oh lets give them a legendary'...
It's the same issue that many FPS games that have leaderboards even with no mechanical benefit face.....because it no longer becomes about trying to get your side to win, it becomes about mechanicaly manipulating the game to try to get individual high-score and hope by chance that the rest of the folks on your side weren't playing that same game and actualy did what was neccesary to get a win. It encourages cheesy tactics like spawn camping....or even having guild-mates try to astro-turf other players on your own side so they don't end up getting high score. Realm vs Realm really is supposed to be a cooperative endevour...not a race for a single player to get high-score. It ends up being a bad mechanic that works against both community and the gameplay goal of what Realm vs Realm should be about. That's aside from the lore considerations.
I'm really not bothered by the some people get to be Kings, Jedi, etc and others get to be pawns aspect of things....it can be perfectly fun playing a pawn....it's the encouraging people to be selfish, meta-game and generaly behave like @#$hats so that they can get an individual reward when everyone on a side should really be working toward a common goal. If you really want to give someone some special, hard to achieve individual reward then the PvE or even some sort of arena PvP (free for all) style play is a better venue for doing that.
its funny how we all play games with 'lore' revolving protecting a 'kingdom higher archy'. in movies we see, it in games,books..etc.
but when it becomes something in real time (involving protecting a player whos emperor) everyone is like- oh noess!!! the game is ruined-why should one person get a special entitlement...
i think this is the kind of intuition pvp needs in an mmo nowadays- last i checked 'mmo' meant massively multiplayer online?...
Sure, it's a cool concept that is misplaced here and goes against the grain of what they say they want to create. I disagree with your assessment that this feature is some form of incentive to the typical, casual, MMORPG player this title "claims" to be aimed at. It's actually the kind of thing I feel is better suited to a MMOFPS or a MOBA rather than an RPG and there simply isn't a lot of common ground. You can't be everything to everyone and the average former WOW player they "claim" to want to attract will be more interested in personal progression rather than earning competition titles..
I actually think the emperor idea will discourage folks from even bothering with PvP. Ex: Attempt to get into PvP realize you need to give up your whole life to get one of those top spots, don't bother. So if your real motivator is that reward I see it as more discouraging than not.
Worth mentioning, each Cyrodil "Campaign" or instance gets its own Emperor so enjoy being Emperor 9999999 of Campaign 1d3532kd939040.
Steam: Neph
this intrigues me...iam sure this wont be the fact-
lets wait and see how all this wil be handled upon release