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We have "Alphas" we have "Betas" but still MMOs get released with Flawed Game design. Well how about
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
Lots of MMOs over the years are getting released with poor/flawed game design that some how missed the prototype stage in development.
the Alphas arent catching these flaws before release
nor are the Betas catching these flaws before release. Usually by Beta, its too late.
So why not extent most testing to the "Charlie" stage of MMO testing?
Gives MMOs more time to address game design flaws while also addressing tester's feedback on bugs/glitches.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
Current design cycles work fine as long as they are not subverted by sales and marketing teams. This isn't a issue with video games only either, it's a pretty much software development industry wide problem.
This is so true. And then when finally some developers treat their beta for what a beta actually is, you have to hear about how bad it is that there's no transparency because of NDA's and such. Some criticize that betas aren't betas anymore, but then when a game actually IS a beta... It's bad. xD
I don't refer to you in this post anyway, just thought you said something interesting there!
Because adding a stage doesn't fix the problem. It just gives you another word to say.
Alphas would become utter trash, Betas would become Alphas, and "Charlies" would become the new Beta. And you'd be right back where you started, except companies would charge you for Beta AND for Charlie.
Because it has flawed game design. These are issues that are deeply embedded into the game design. Not simply a bug/glitch that can easily be patched in.
If a game is badly designed, no matter how smooth/bug free that game is, its still a bad game.
You ever heard the saying "you can shine a turd all day long, but at the end of the day, its still a turd" ?
Well same context really.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
MMOExposed: Could you give some clear example's of what you mean with game design flaws?
Or is it just some personal view on how you think or feel game X might be better?
I have encountered plenty of MMO's with none working feature's, bugs or other type of issue's, but most of the time they didn't bother me in the way I play these games as often the majority of rush players have encountered those issue's long before I might even reach their level or area they are in and most likely those issue's are resolved once I get there. Even more often it's PVP related and since I don't play MMO/rpg's for PVP again I am not bothered with it. Doesn't mean I don't care, cause I do if a game has PVP feature's implimented they really need to make sure it works. So I can see that a PVP player might get more frustrated with the options they are given by today's games (I am just more of a FPS pvp player but occasionaly enjoy PVP in some MMORPG's aswell)
Perhaps I am much more forgiving when it comes to MMO/rpg released games compared to what I expect from a singleplayer game. To me it's still one of the most complexed game genre's to develop.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Gamma is the next letter you are looking for
But no number of pre-released tests will repair the flawed design, imho, the developers should change their initial concepts of said game. But, what is flawed and what is not is quite hard to measure. It could be different things for players and developers, producers...As long as the game makes profit != flawed, even if its just terrible to log in for 5 minutes for you.
lol +1
I feel rather silly at the moment, so I'll go with this.
I propose that we set up some sort of Game Overseer position within the development process of every mmo company. His or Her role would be much like the FDA for drug trials, but with even more power. Focused solely on ensuring a quality product in the end, this unbiased individual would be tasked with nipping Stupid Ideas in the bud with complete veto over any design decisions that would negatively impact the end quality of the game. Complete hiring and firing rights within the overseen company - including executives and investors. The right to overrule those with Creative Control. In addition to having final review on determining whether a game gets to be released to market, or if it is sent back for further development.
The potential for this position to be a target for corruption, bias, and misuse of power is about as effective I believe as a third development phase will be. Change needs to start from the top of an organization or in this case, market, and right now we are seeing some very costly examples of money wasted in MMO blunders until the mindset changes.
I vote I become the king of video games!
Your idea would work as well as communism did. Great on paper, till people fuck it all up.
Flaws in design. you know. Example, in GW2, the way WvW is Designed, leads to Zerging becoming the best tactic for battles.
Or how Champ Train was formed from the design decisions of the developers.
Also the way their combat trinity idea was designed but limited to a DPS>All role, which lead to a damage focused PvE gameplay that doesnt reward other methods of play. Thats a bad design right there.
Or how about in Rift/WoW, in which they add new levels to the game, but have a few new zones, which are tiered by level ranges up to the new max level, making all the previous new zones obsolete. Thats Flawed/bad game design, not a bug/glitch.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I'm no software engineer but I did find this after a quick search which leads me to believe that the next in sequence would be Charlie (from the phonetic alphabet) and not Gamma (from the Greek alphabet)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle
Back to the topic at hand though. If one was to look up the definition and differences between Alpha and Beta software testing you may arrive at a similar concluson to myself that possibly one or both test stages weren't conducted correctly if the game was released with flawed game design.
I understand what the OP is suggesting with having a third phase of testing. So I ask myself, what is the difference between open and closed Beta testing. Is this the 2nd and 3rd stage of testing the OP is talking about?
There is a serious lack of communication between the developers and the intelligent side of the gaming community. I have no idea why this is. But it does no good to have a beta and not even bother to look on the forums to see what people are saying about the game.
If it was my game I would stop hogging it all to myself. Since I can't be everywhere at once and fixing one problem usually takes me weeks I would just rent the problems out to the people. If they love the game so much the modders will fix it themselves. Share the work load with the hackers and let them mod the game. Announce what aspects you are fixing so you don't get tied up together working on the same projects. TALK TO YOUR COMMUNITY, DEVELOPERS. Stop hiding in a hole being afraid of the trolls. Or hire a communications assistant who can take the heat. Not some lacky forum moderator either.
Finally, why in the nine hells would we stop fixing a game after Beta????!
That wasn't a flaw in the design, that was a flaw in the game players.
I only played GW2 for the first 3 months, and then off and on for a while after that but after the first 2 months there were enough on my server that had learned their classes that we were able to counter zergs with a small amount of people while medium sized groups were spread out taking the maps.
GW2 takes more leadership than most games and players willing to work together, something that was not required for games like DaoC and WoW because those games had PvP for carebears. That's why full tilt hardcore PvP guilds/groups were able to dominate so much in those games, gear up and faceroll. With GW2, because gear didn't matter, skill and working together does. There are plenty of videos out there showing 10 stopping 40+ and one of 30 stopping over 100.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Only problem with that is Alfa and Bravo are the first two in phonetic, Alpha and Beta are from the Greek version....so Gamma would be correct.
Anyway, some of these MMOs would require a Zeta or even an Eta to be released in decent form.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I stand corrected with Alpha/Beta as opposed to Alpha/Bravo.
If you have a quick read of the article under "History" is does mention a "C" test stage as being the final stage test back in the 1950's
Yeah but back in the 1950s Elvis was sexual because of his hip shakes, it was a sin to get divorced and I Love Lucy was the most popular show on TV.
Thems were backward timez!
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Bet is sounds like Greek to the OP!
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https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?game=249&view=forums&thread=299967
Because it's so old that it's new again?
Qubec Foxtrot Tango
--John Ruskin
What used to be called "C test" is still around, but it's been known as "RC" for a long time.
IHMO, the real problem is that a lot of folks call Alphas "Beta" and then release the software before they've finished making it. A true Beta is already Feature Complete, if the devs are still adding features then it's only an Alpha, not Beta. (I understand this gets fuzzy for MMOs and web browsers where you've got to add some new features all the time)
Planning -> PreAlpha -> Alpha -> FC -> Beta -> RC -> Gold
The current system works, if people follow it.