Political correctness invades the MMO world.

Rusque

Some people in this thread are being really really disingenuous regarding female proportions in gaming. I hate political correctness, but let's not lie to ourselves. Most games are made by guys and purposefully hypersexualize the females and create hyperheroic males.

 

CrazKanuk

 

Let's remember that it's a work of fiction, for one. Secondly, it's nothing new for the Fantasy genre. Take a look at every single movie cover art or poster from the 80s. If it was a game that was promoting ultimate levels of realism then I'd take issue with it invading the game. Otherwise, meh. If we're talking about realism, I'd be significantly more concerned about the armor will all the exposed flesh (kinda defeats the purpose). Also, if we're looking for hyper-realism, I'll be expecting the ability to streak Frank the Tank style through hub cities. I mean how long are these characters going to wear that underwear for?

 

I get the whole objectification argument, and I appreciate that. Generally speaking, though, the male characters in these games, with few exceptions, are the stereotypical hero archtype, chiseled all over. 

 

I've read a LOT about this subject over the years and I get the impression that women think that by having this in a game, men will expect it in real life. I have to say that's a fallacy. I think that, for the most part, when you put down the game, you return to reality. 

 

I've actually never requested that my wife act like someone in a game. On the other hand, I've heard countless times how Christian would do X or how would do better, more romantically, or more thoroughly than me. Christian would have taken the garbage out in his underwear and walked in sexy slow motion. 

 

Am I offended by any of this? Not really. However, I don't really see this any differently than big boobs in a game.  I think people take this sort of thing too seriously, though. Let's cure terminal illnesses, solve the whole World Peace puzzle, then we can worry about getting those annoying big boobs out of games. Unless we find a way to create a big boob ray to just give everyone big boobs. Then you'd probably have to leave it in there. 

DocBrody

Welcome to George Orwell´s 1984 totalitarian society

 

we are right in the middle of it, thanks to brainwashing of the politically correct opinion leader minority

 

Thorkune

I don't play MMO's to see pixel "boobies", so it doesn't matter to me...

Derros

Originally posted by Rusque

Some people in this thread are being really really disingenuous regarding female proportions in gaming. I hate political correctness, but let's not lie to ourselves. Most games are made by guys and purposefully hypersexualize the females and create hyperheroic males.

 

I think people are reacting to percieved outside threats to their favorite hobby.  Without direct comment from the devs, we cant know for sure what prompted the change, perhaps beta feed back, perhaps a small vocal group, perhaps marketing, perhaps the designers changed their mind, we dont know.  

 

But its easy to label a boogyman (feminiests, a few article writers, small vocal forum populations, ESRB ect) and attack it when there is that void of not knowing, so thats what people do, it's what we've always done as a species.

 

 

Luxatria

I'll be honest the VERY first thing that came to my mind about this was feeling like having larger breasts was something to be ashamed off. Sure maybe that wasn't their intention to make people feel this way but the breast size really wasn't so big it looks unnatural. I felt that they seemed pretty reasonable and perhaps a D cup. 

 

Really? What kind of person shames the size of a NATURAL looking breast. I totally get if the character is walking around with breasts 2x the size of her head but come on now.

 

(Though I hear they only boosted the size down to about a C cup which is only slightly less "large." Seems like this whole thing was pointless to even announce it. I bet they could have gone unknown and no one would even tell a difference.)

 

VassagoMael

The amount of teen angst / virgin douchebaggery that a slight model adjustment has stirred up makes me embarrassed to be human.

Scot

The thing that puzzles me about this is that Wildstar does not even seem to have official forums. So these objections where raised by individuals who may have no intention of playing the game. You look to your fan base, not general gamers when making design decisions, be it boob size or housing.

Jemcrystal

Going around pretending that large breasts aren't a sexual stimulus for lesbian and straight males is a little silly.

 

Obvious answer is to put a slider on the breasts so players can make them whatever size they want.  I think people who are offended by mature body parts have a tendency to levitate toward the cutesy games where player characters are children / cherubs / pets.  It's hard to strike up a balance when the world of mmo's are for children and adults.  Maybe rate games G, PG, PG-13, XXX?

 

Also note that those defending breasts had better be defending male body parts with equal fervor, tyvm.

GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Shana77

So after I read the article about Carbines decision to reduce the breast size of their female models in Wildstar because a small vocal group felt offended by them, I have two lingering questions. 

 

1. Should large breasted women be ashamed of themselves? This may seem like a weird statement, but there seems to be a very vocal and agressive minority that feels that large breasts are an insult to womenhood and they are getting their way.

 

2. Is this the start of a new trend, where western MMO's like Wildstar have to adjust their artistic style to the will of the PC crowd?

Are we going to see changes in male models as well? Are we going to see a variation of minorities, sexual preferences, religions in a sanatized model that is void of any hints of sexuality, petrified to offend anyone?

Will it matter if the game sucks?

Will it matter if the game is awesome?

Thane

it's simple, you wanna conquer the asian market?

give em huge boobs.

 

you care about the rest of the world?

yea, you can also have small boobs. 

 

 

whatever, reducing the characters to their boobsize is kinda... low imo *G*

see what i did there? bazinga!

Flyte27

I don't personally care that much what breast size they have or if they are wearing skimpy cloths.  I'm more annoyed that everything seems to be discussed and scrutinized over these days.  A hetero sexual male might like things one way.  A hetero sexual woman might like things another way.  I don't get how developers can put any passion in their work if they have to constantly conform to what is either politically correct or try to appeal to everyone.  It's part of why I think a lot of games in general now lose out on what I'd like to term their soul.  I feel this is the case with many movies and TV shows as well.  Everything is such a mechanical process now.  There is no personal attachment.  It's just what will bring in the most money or what will offend the least people.

Antiquated

Originally posted by aspekx

1. define "political correctness."

Hint: "Mah virtual bajoobies got smaller oh noes" does not qualify.

Gruug

Originally posted by Scot
The thing that puzzles me about this is that Wildstar does not even seem to have official forums. So these objections where raised by individuals who may have no intention of playing the game. You look to your fan base, not general gamers when making design decisions, be it boob size or housing.

Actually, they have BETA forums up and running so there could be individuals that are playing beta that have complained.

My opinion, I think that the concentration on such topics IN A GAME are outside the realm of what should be discussed. Gameplay should be the issue and not the size of anatomy parts.

 

Antiquated

Originally posted by Kyleran

MMO world was invaded by political correctness long ago.  Several Asian games decided to cover up or tone down

Vanishing Nipples Scandal clear back in '04.

But the 'political correctness' motive is always an assumption without evidence. We're never provided with an explanation of why an art decision was made, nor are we entitled to be. Could be as simple as 'lead artist decided he'd like fewer clipping problems'.

aspekx

for those of you who think this is merely about sexual titillation, you've missed the point entirely.

Jemcrystal

Originally posted by Gruug

Originally posted by Scot
The thing that puzzles me about this is that Wildstar does not even seem to have official forums. So these objections where raised by individuals who may have no intention of playing the game. You look to your fan base, not general gamers when making design decisions, be it boob size or housing.

Actually, they have BETA forums up and running so there could be individuals that are playing beta that have complained.

My opinion, I think that the concentration on such topics IN A GAME are outside the realm of what should be discussed. Gameplay should be the issue and not the size of anatomy parts.

 

Size of body parts is a game play issue.  Role playing issue.  

Derros

Originally posted by aspekx
for those of you who think this is merely about sexual titillation, you've missed the point entirely.

No, I get the point, theoretical outside forces trying to alter game content, tell people what is acceptable/what is not/forcing morality, minority being catered to ect, ect.  

 

Problem is the decision ultimately comes down to what the game devs/publisher want to do.  Everyone complains about everything constantly, im sure people wanted them bigger as well, more/less chainmail bikinis, ect.  The devs decide which complaints are worth listening to, if, in fact this was in response to complaints, which we will probably never get evidence for or against

AlBQuirky

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Originally posted by Antiquated

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Originally posted by Kyleran
MMO world was invaded by political correctness long ago.  Several Asian games decided to cover up or tone down

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Vanishing Nipples Scandal clear back in '04.But the 'political correctness' motive is always an assumption without evidence. We're never provided with an explanation of why an art decision was made, nor are we entitled to be. Could be as simple as 'lead artist decided he'd like fewer clipping problems'.

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So, you pick out ONE line (not even the complete line) and write away.

How does same sex PC/NPC relationships (LGBT stink in SW:TOR) affect clipping or artwork? How about a PC's skin color?

Here is Kyleran's FULL post. Read it again. He is spot on. I underlined the important parts you conveniently "forgot", to make it easier for you.

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Originally posted by Kyleran
MMO world was invaded by political correctness long ago. Several Asian games decided to cover up or tone down their avatars in order to not offend western sensibilities (TERA being one, but there are more), and it's been argued for more years than I can remember that armor on female avatars (L2 and many others) is ridiculously small and over sexualized.I've seen debates over why certain games don't have more racial choices in them, whether or not it is correct for someone to play an avatar of the opposite sex, or should the storyline contain same sex relationships (SWTOR).We're all sorts of twisted around the concept of political correctness these days, and you can't really do anything it seems without offending someone, somewhere.So this is nothing new, and unless the female characters in Wildstar start wearing habits I wouldn't worry too much.

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Is THAT "evidence" enough for you?

Jorl

Unfortunately the PC brigade is all over in the west. It's taking away our freedom, our rights. It will get worse unless people stand up.

GuyClinch

It might not be PC just an aesthetic choice. If they shrunk the breast down from Jessica Rabbit levels to Guild Wars 2 levels is there really a problem even for men. There is such a thing as too much - even for breasts.  Not that it really matters - the women of GW2 are the best I have ever seen and people still hate on it.

Poor MMO designers - no matter what they do the haters hate on em.

Antiquated

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

I've seen debates over why certain games don't have more racial choices in them, whether or not it is correct for someone to play an avatar of the opposite sex, or should the storyline contain same sex relationships (SWTOR).

We're all sorts of twisted around the concept of political correctness these days, and you can't really do anything it seems without offending someone, somewhere.

So this is nothing new, and unless the female characters in Wildstar start wearing habits I wouldn't worry too much.

---

 

Is THAT "evidence" enough for you?

Evidence of "political correct-driven agenda", rather than a simple art director decision?

No, evidence would involve something concrete, not "I think they were motivated by/for".

Art director decisions are, you know, what the lead art director gets paid to make. All the time. Is he "oh noes caving in to pressure"? What pressure, and how come we never hear about it anywhere but forum yackyack?

GuyClinch

Originally posted by Antiquated

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

I've seen debates over why certain games don't have more racial choices in them, whether or not it is correct for someone to play an avatar of the opposite sex, or should the storyline contain same sex relationships (SWTOR).

We're all sorts of twisted around the concept of political correctness these days, and you can't really do anything it seems without offending someone, somewhere.

So this is nothing new, and unless the female characters in Wildstar start wearing habits I wouldn't worry too much.

---

 

Is THAT "evidence" enough for you?

Evidence of "political correct-driven agenda", rather than a simple art director decision?

No, evidence would involve something concrete, not "I think they were motivated by/for".

Art director decisions are, you know, what the lead art director gets paid to make. All the time. Is he "oh noes caving in to pressure"? What pressure, and how come we never hear about it anywhere but forum yackyack?

This. Unless the director comes out and says - well because of fan protest we shrunk the breast size - i think it was likely done to create  better looking women.

TiamatRoar

I've read those two articles posted on page 2 or 3 of this thread (or was it the first page?) as "sources" and neither mention breast size reduction. Neither mention breast SIZE at all, if I recall correctly, but instead point out the stupidity of breasts on rock and reptilian species, which is true.

 

...Frankly, I don't think reducing the size of the breasts on a robot or rock-based species will do anything to fix those problems, either. The articles are very much correct that the females look stupid because they LOOK LIKE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SPECIES, but that doesn't have anything to do with breast size.

Kabulozo

Wildstar is cartoony and 4kids so censorship is required, I don't play western MMOs anyway. My korean MMOs are there with beautiful and sexy ladies characters to play.