I have put money into a few kickstarters before including star citizens, CU and more recently Hex. But from watching the promo videos and reading the articles on the websites, I find nothing about this game that excites me. It seems to be EQ with a makeover, very old fashioned.
look im not a backer and i certainly hold a number of reservations concerning this project.
however, really? this is what you come up with?
can we please try to stick to substantial arguments pro or con?
Attention to detail my friend. If something as important as your work mail is being treated like this, can you imagine the rest?
Even I have my own professional email, and I am a nobody. lol
well, I'll give you that, I don't use my hotmail for "work" items.
Still, it's not like he's a lawyer or an engineer. Game developers tend to a bit more "laid back" from what I've seen.
It's like working in the arts; the type of conduct and discussion one would experience is very different from working in a biotech's office.
Or again, getting back to developers, all the software developers I've ever worked with were never people you would think to take to a black tie event. Their dress would go from dorky to "really, you're wearing that?" and their social abilities were always rough.
Sometimes the people within an industry make their own rules (like the arts or sports) and what might seem out of place for one industry doesn't really matter in another.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Good points about not assuming everyone knows eq or vg mechanics and virtues. Avoiding alienating possible players, and explaining in simple terms why Pantheons features and philosophy are awesome and needed, even unique in the marked.
It is tough but a good practise, and I already rewrote this answer several times to avoid references to the unmentionables haha. For me it is a ditch I often end up in, and I will try to avoid that.
Pantheons success will rely on getting all players who would enjoy that type of game.
Originally posted by Arakazi I find nothing about this game that excites me. It seems to be EQ with a makeover, very old fashioned.
That's one of the main draws.
Yeah, but strangely despite being part of the target audience who enjoyed EQ and would like to see an MMO done in a similar vein, Pantheon doesn't seem that exciting to me. It's not a true open world as it is zoned and has some instances in it. The combat, the world and classes seems to be fairly generic so far. I'm guessing the quest system and UI will also be the standard MMO type. Personally I would want to see an evolution of EQ and Vanguard rather than the same old, same old.
I rather see battles being rarer but more meaningful. Instead or tearing through a hundred trolls or orcs, I would prefer to battle 5 that actually challenged us as a group. I want a stealth mechanic that can be used to sneak past mobs to rob a treasure chest or steal a rare item. I want assassins to actually fight like assassins, striking from the shadows or poisoning a trolls stale bread to take him out. In short, I want a group to have options in how to do dungeons.
Sure they can fight their way through, but wouldn't it be interesting to sneak past the dragon an pinch his gold while he slept? Wouldn't it be fun to turn up at a bandits camp as a bard and get everyone drunk on songs and wine and then slitting their throats as they slept? Or how about turning up in a village and using their graveyard to summon their dead to turn them against the locals just for the lols. That would excite me. Pantheon is just hit them till the die then move to the next step. There is no innovation here and I'm rather surprised because Brad is/or was a D&D table top player.
You know, I think I am with you on this. I most certainly like the idea of an ‘Old School’ mmo that challenges its player base, and I think a greater focus on grouping will create a stronger community. Coming from AC1 though, I don’t think everything should require a group, especially once you start to grow in power, (I’m talking about quick and minor task and quests i.e. dailies and farming, but I digress.)
What a true sequel to the first generation of MMO’s needs is innovation. Brad and company should use EQ1 as a model and reference, but they should build on it instead of emulating it’s completely. Take combat for example. Find a way to make it more engaging for everyone involved. A healer should not just be staring at health bars, the DPS should be doing other things to aid the tank and healer, and hell the even the tank should be worrying about other things aside from threat and mitigation. I just think it’s time we build on the tank and spank model of old. I don’t want a zerg either but I want more options for sure. If rogues can stun for example then allow them to stun mobs, even bosses, at the right moment to add additional depth to combat. This is just one example, but I think you can see where I am going with this.
Another example of innovation of the old style is how a group would enter a dungeon or raid. I never understand why mobs from all over a dungeon would not running towards the entrance the moment a group of players entered and started fighting, loudly! Why not have the players use some of their stealthy classes to take out some mobs and then have us wear their armor as a disguise so we can infiltrate the dungeon? Or have a portion of the group create a diversion while our main force battles through the entrance. Heck maybe we can use that destructible feature EQ:N is so fond of to create an entrance of our own. Again, I hope everyone can see where I am going with this. Its 2014, let’s use the technology we have today to create a far more engrossing and tactical experience. There shouldn’t be only one way to do a dungeon, or even group combat. There shouldn’t be only one way to do anything in a truly immersive game.
You have to wonder though, if they can't handle their Kickstarter well, what does that say about them? It's not rocket surgery. This pitch will have no traction with me, as I looked at EQ in its prime and decided the problems outweighed the advantages, and did not play. The re-envisioned game might do it, but not to the point of me supporting a kickstarter for it.
The point about fans dissing everyone who doesn't share their golden-age view is a good one, too. You see this all over, the 'Back when games were good' trope. Instead of 'Back when games were like I liked'. It's elitist, and usually ignores completely legitimate complaints about aspects of those older games.
I don't have anything constructive to add, but damn I want to see some rocket surgery performed!
To be honest, I didn't think the presentation in the KS video was very good.
I could not stand the fact that most everybody, including Brad McQuaid to an extent, basically read off the teleprompter in an obvious fashion and with what appeared to be feigned enthusiasm. It just did not look like anyone could speak from the heart and improvise. And whatever was shown off just looked like more of the same high fantasy stuff to me.
Granted, this KS was at least much better than the Trials of Ascension KS a while ago, where the devs practically spoke in a monotone voice.
I have to hand it to Mark Jacobs though. I don't think anyone can deny how phenomenal of a job he did in presenting the Camelot Unchained KS. The passion and eloquence that came through in his videos were just marvelous. His presentation arguably made all the difference given how little of the game they actually had to show off.
I agree with you on that. They seemed a bit bored while reading off their script for their pitch, which makes me not enthusiastic enough to give them my money. There's no heart and soul feel to their pitch. It was more like "we want to make an mmo, meh, yah wanna help see if we start it?".
I agree too, Mark Jacobs had lots of enthusiasm and he had a well thought presentation, was clear on his goals for Camelot Unchained, has a clear vision and presented it to everyone, and really makes everyone feel a part of the whole process of his game. He put a lot of time in interviewing, answering question, getting information out every day or two on the game. There was so much interaction with him. You know and knew exactly what you were getting when you pledged for his Kickstarter.
For Pantheon, they are just not that convincing they know what they want to do, for me to want to back them.
Hopefully, they can change my mind. So far though they come off as a group with a few ideas and no clear vision yet.
I would love an old school mmorpg like we had with Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot (Pre-ToA), and there's a big market for that. We old school mmorpg'ers are still out here and still want those types of mmo's. We haven't gone away, we just don't have any mmorpg's that we like and want to play out there atm. Give us a reason to throw our money at you.
You know, I think I am with you on this. I most certainly like the idea of an ‘Old School’ mmo that challenges its player base, and I think a greater focus on grouping will create a stronger community. Coming from AC1 though, I don’t think everything should require a group, especially once you start to grow in power, (I’m talking about quick and minor task and quests i.e. dailies and farming, but I digress.)
What a true sequel to the first generation of MMO’s needs is innovation. Brad and company should use EQ1 as a model and reference, but they should build on it instead of emulating it’s completely. Take combat for example. Find a way to make it more engaging for everyone involved. A healer should not just be staring at health bars, the DPS should be doing other things to aid the tank and healer, and hell the even the tank should be worrying about other things aside from threat and mitigation. I just think it’s time we build on the tank and spank model of old. I don’t want a zerg either but I want more options for sure. If rogues can stun for example then allow them to stun mobs, even bosses, at the right moment to add additional depth to combat. This is just one example, but I think you can see where I am going with this.
Another example of innovation of the old style is how a group would enter a dungeon or raid. I never understand why mobs from all over a dungeon would not running towards the entrance the moment a group of players entered and started fighting, loudly! Why not have the players use some of their stealthy classes to take out some mobs and then have us wear their armor as a disguise so we can infiltrate the dungeon? Or have a portion of the group create a diversion while our main force battles through the entrance. Heck maybe we can use that destructible feature EQ:N is so fond of to create an entrance of our own. Again, I hope everyone can see where I am going with this. Its 2014, let’s use the technology we have today to create a far more engrossing and tactical experience. There shouldn’t be only one way to do a dungeon, or even group combat. There shouldn’t be only one way to do anything in a truly immersive game.
To be honest I always felt that MMO dungeon, level, and lair designers could learn a lot from table top game masters in this regard and it could benefit game play immensely. Everything from how to set up alarms and lines of communication with the right traps, spell selections, and defensive plans on. Instead all these mobs just stand there waiting for some one to approach too close.
You cannot improve a kick starter because it is just a fancy name for RMT,meaning real money trading,you trade them money for virtual items which are worthless because you never own virtual items.Oh i usually if not always see that your rmt gives you access to Alpha now as well,it was Beta for awhile but developers are going even lower in their standards.
I cannot fathom how people are accepting developers selling them Alpha access."TESTING" is suppose to be FREE,because you are helping the developer find bugs,issues,you are not suppose to pay for YOUR services,they are suppose to pay you if anything.
These issues are not relegated to just this game but ALL kick starters,they are imo ALL lame.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You cannot improve a kick starter because it is just a fancy name for RMT,meaning real money trading,you trade them money for virtual items which are worthless because you never own virtual items.Oh i usually if not always see that your rmt gives you access to Alpha now as well,it was Beta for awhile but developers are going even lower in their standards.
I cannot fathom how people are accepting developers selling them Alpha access."TESTING" is suppose to be FREE,because you are helping the developer find bugs,issues,you are not suppose to pay for YOUR services,they are suppose to pay you if anything.
These issues are not relegated to just this game but ALL kick starters,they are imo ALL lame.
Well, I have backed a few Kick Starters because I want to support games that may never come into existence without financial support. Star Citizen, Camelot Unchained and Hex are games I would like to play but would struggle to get capital for the project by normal means without making comprimises that could be counter to what the game is about. I do accept, however, that backers do not get as much bang for the buck, particularly those who spend $1000 and upwards on a project. But it is their money and they can spend it as they see fit.
Couldn't agree more about the tiers. I really don't see the value in backing the project. I mean, crap, we're talking about a subscription game. You're getting like 90% of your money from subs (you hope), so give away a digital copy of the game for like $10 or $20. Right now, you could literally purchase the game at launch and spend the same amount of money without any of the associated risk. I really don't think it's going to make it with the current reward tiers that are out there.
well, I'll give you that, I don't use my hotmail for "work" items.
Still, it's not like he's a lawyer or an engineer. Game developers tend to a bit more "laid back" from what I've seen.
It's like working in the arts; the type of conduct and discussion one would experience is very different from working in a biotech's office.
Or again, getting back to developers, all the software developers I've ever worked with were never people you would think to take to a black tie event. Their dress would go from dorky to "really, you're wearing that?" and their social abilities were always rough.
Sometimes the people within an industry make their own rules (like the arts or sports) and what might seem out of place for one industry doesn't really matter in another.
Agreed.
Since when is someone's email address an indication of that person's credibility? For crying out loud, we're not talking about someone no one's ever heard of before.
Will Brad get your email? Yes. So, does it matter what comes after Aradune@? No, not at all. But then, considering who made that post... I suppose I shouldn't expect any less.
There are certainly things that can be rightfully questioned or criticized regarding this KS campaign. Their pitch isn't particularly "exciting". Their tiers need some tweaking, and so on. However, nit-picking at an email address is not one of them. Too much fuss over too small a thing, frankly.
I hope it pans out for them and am definitely rooting for them (and will back it). But if it doesn't get funded, well... it won't be the first time a project I was totally behind and wanted to see succeed (and believe could on the merits of the project alone) didn't make it due to a weak KS offering.
Originally posted by UOlover graphics shouldn't be look like anything they are unity placeholder. in fact they shouldn't be shown at all.
This. I find I very dishonest to show a Unity prototype and label it pre-Alpha. It should have been labeled as a prototype and a note on what that means or not shown at all.
The people in involved should also not have been reading carefully prepared scripts, especially when they can't do it without sounding like they are reading from scripts.
Those are the reasons that even though I am a Vanguard fan, I will not back this. It comes off way too dishonest.
Do you hold this opinion of any MMO/game in development, or only this one?
I ask because many ... perhaps even most early alpha/beta screenshots released for a game show placeholder/temporary assets, which are later replaced or otherwise improved. Pantheon is not the first, nor only game to do this. Not by a long shot.
Richard Garriot was showing off early screenshots of his game using Unity assets as well, and even said as much. I don't recall people ripping him apart for it, though... because in the end, it's early pre-alpha/prototyping, and it doesn't matter.
If the game gets into Beta or release using those same assets, then yes.. I'll agree 100%. At this point, though, it is not at all some bad thing that they're using stand-in assets. It's standard.
Hotmail is what you use to sign up for places like mmorpg.com, random f2p games and porn sites. You don't use hotmail as your business email because, call me crazy, its unprofessional. Being unprofessional, esp. considering McQuaid's past, is very much relevant to the discussion.
Yes, you are crazy. Ridiculous argument. There are plenty of legit arguments and you use this?
Originally posted by Nephaerius ^except eq had more features than just pve combat
Such as?
It had crafting, but few people did it and it isnt remembered as a strong crafting system (though I loved that it was a status thing to have maxed crafting skills).
Originally posted by Nephaerius ^except eq had more features than just pve combat
Such as?
It had crafting, but few people did it and it isnt remembered as a strong crafting system (though I loved that it was a status thing to have maxed crafting skills).
Not to mention, Brad has already stated that crafting will be in the game regardless. Whether it gets funded via Stretch Goal or not. If they meet the stretch goal, then they can focus on it sooner. If not, then they'll have to focus on it at a later time when the funding they acquire does make it feasible.
If anyone followed the KS for Dreamfall: Chapters, they'll recall one of the stretch goals being the ability to make a full on, classic 2D adventure game (aside from the main game). Same situation there... If they got the funding during the KS, they would be able to begin initial work on it sooner. If not, then it would have to start at a later time, but they still intend on doing it, regardless.
The purpose of the Pantheon KS (as he's also already explained) is to get the funding to help get the ball rolling, and they are keeping it focused on the core elements of the game. More funding will follow afterward. KS is not the be all, end all for them. It's just to get things moving in a more official capacity, as they've been working out of pocket for the last several months up 'til now.
All this information is out there. It's all been explained already - multiple times in some cases. So it really boggles my mind how people could have done so little research on the project before coming here and making some of the remarks I see people making. I have to wonder if they skim and don't catch all the specific details, if they do read everything but selectively "forget" certain details just so they can pick something to complain about... or if they simply aren't reading anything at all.
Originally posted by Nephaerius ^except eq had more features than just pve combat
Such as?
It had crafting, but few people did it and it isnt remembered as a strong crafting system (though I loved that it was a status thing to have maxed crafting skills).
Not to mention, Brad has already stated that crafting will be in the game regardless. Whether it gets funded via Stretch Goal or not. If they meet the stretch goal, then they can focus on it sooner. If not, then they'll have to focus on it at a later time when the funding they acquire does make it feasible.
If anyone followed the KS for Dreamfall: Chapters, they'll recall one of the stretch goals being the ability to make a full on, classic 2D adventure game (aside from the main game). Same situation there... If they got the funding during the KS, they would be able to begin initial work on it sooner. If not, then it would have to start at a later time, but they still intend on doing it, regardless.
The purpose of the Pantheon KS (as he's also already explained) is to get the funding to help get the ball rolling, and they are keeping it focused on the core elements of the game. More funding will follow afterward. KS is not the be all, end all for them. It's just to get things moving in a more official capacity, as they've been working out of pocket for the last several months up 'til now.
All this information is out there. It's all been explained already - multiple times in some cases. So it really boggles my mind how people could have done so little research on the project before coming here and making some of the remarks I see people making. I have to wonder if they skim and don't catch all the specific details, if they do read everything but selectively "forget" certain details just so they can pick something to complain about... or if they simply aren't reading anything at all.
Uh...did you not read the interview right here on MMORPG.com? He makes it pretty clear that if they don't make it as a stretch goal it will most likely be added as an expansion. Personally I find the need to have an expansion to add crafting hilarious and even more so considering it will probably cost money. "hey can you craft me a health pot?" "Nah sorry can't craft don't have the expansion." lulz.
Originally posted by Nephaerius ^except eq had more features than just pve combat
Such as?
It had crafting, but few people did it and it isnt remembered as a strong crafting system (though I loved that it was a status thing to have maxed crafting skills).
My point was just that it had something to do besides pve combat. Crafting would count as that something. Pantheon offers nothing except pve combat. Oh and lets keep slow leveling because old school players like it or maybe because we really can't produce very much content.
I thought they'd make the base level, but not sure now. I personally they think they should let it fail, wait 2-3 months and try again with more content. They don't even have concept art for the races or classes! What a joke. I want this game to be made, but this is a poorly run KS. People want to see things, not just read about lore IMO. They announced they were working on it since September, surely they have some concept art for every single class and race? The KS project is the time to flood fans/potential backers with everything you have.
I realize this is 3+ years out, but come on. Take notes on successful KS MMO projects like Panthfinder Online (which was super close to not making it, but ended up above even a stretch goal or two) and Camelot Unchained. CU was one of the better KS MMOs i feel. Great reward in backing and a lot of details, even a tech demo that was updated multiple times during the project. They got their **** together. Brad doesn't quite yet
Not to mention, Brad has already stated that crafting will be in the game regardless. Whether it gets funded via Stretch Goal or not. If they meet the stretch goal, then they can focus on it sooner. If not, then they'll have to focus on it at a later time when the funding they acquire does make it feasible.
Uh...did you not read the interview right here on MMORPG.com? He makes it pretty clear that if they don't make it as a stretch goal it will most likely be added as an expansion. Personally I find the need to have an expansion to add crafting hilarious and even more so considering it will probably cost money. "hey can you craft me a health pot?" "Nah sorry can't craft don't have the expansion." lulz.
So.... you're agreeing with me, just with different words.
Cool.
The idea is: When they've gotten the funding necessary to make it happen, they will be adding crafting. When it comes, or how it comes is all logistics. But at the end of the day, it boils down to the same thing. More Development Money = Crafting System.
I thought they'd make the base level, but not sure now. I personally they think they should let it fail, wait 2-3 months and try again with more content. They don't even have concept art for the races or classes! What a joke. I want this game to be made, but this is a poorly run KS. People want to see things, not just read about lore IMO. They announced they were working on it since September, surely they have some concept art for every single class and race? The KS project is the time to flood fans/potential backers with everything you have.
I realize this is 3+ years out, but come on. Take notes on successful KS MMO projects like Panthfinder Online (which was super close to not making it, but ended up above even a stretch goal or two) and Camelot Unchained. CU was one of the better KS MMOs i feel. Great reward in backing and a lot of details, even a tech demo that was updated multiple times during the project. They got their **** together. Brad doesn't quite yet
Yeah, while I'm behind what they want to do 100%, and I would back it regardless, because something like that needs to get made, and I have no problem believing the folks at Visionary can do it (esp. given the tighter focus they're giving it, etc)...
I have to agree, though, their KS campaign isn't what it could/should be and it could well hurt them.
It's kinda reminiscent of what Tom Hall, John Romero and Brenda Brathwaite attempted to do with their "old school RPG" project. They kinda went on KS and presented it to people... but didn't have very much info about it. Actually, Pantheon has had more out of the gate than I think even they did.
But point stands, you gotta come out of the gate at full gallop, ready to impress. I don't think Brad and co. have done that. They kinda leaped out, and are now trying to quickly get up to full speed.
Ah well... They've got almost an entire month yet to turn it around. Maybe they can change that before the deadline.
Its not going to get funded anyway, Its been there for almost two weeks it doesnt even have 300k, so that means it needs to raise 500K in 25 days. Thats 20K a day for that mathematically challenged, or 80 people at the 250 level. The average person right now is putting in 126.50. So they need to see people double that going forward.
That tells me a couple things, people realize what it is, and even at its best its trying to raise 800k just to open the office (not even get the game going), and that people have more brains that I give them credit for.
If it does by some miracle get funded it surely wont be by people donating to it. So if it does make its mark in the 11th hour you can rest assured that is just a down payment on the game for some random buy out.
Comments
well, I'll give you that, I don't use my hotmail for "work" items.
Still, it's not like he's a lawyer or an engineer. Game developers tend to a bit more "laid back" from what I've seen.
It's like working in the arts; the type of conduct and discussion one would experience is very different from working in a biotech's office.
Or again, getting back to developers, all the software developers I've ever worked with were never people you would think to take to a black tie event. Their dress would go from dorky to "really, you're wearing that?" and their social abilities were always rough.
Sometimes the people within an industry make their own rules (like the arts or sports) and what might seem out of place for one industry doesn't really matter in another.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Good points about not assuming everyone knows eq or vg mechanics and virtues. Avoiding alienating possible players, and explaining in simple terms why Pantheons features and philosophy are awesome and needed, even unique in the marked.
It is tough but a good practise, and I already rewrote this answer several times to avoid references to the unmentionables haha. For me it is a ditch I often end up in, and I will try to avoid that.
Pantheons success will rely on getting all players who would enjoy that type of game.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
That's one of the main draws.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Steam: Neph
Yeah, but strangely despite being part of the target audience who enjoyed EQ and would like to see an MMO done in a similar vein, Pantheon doesn't seem that exciting to me. It's not a true open world as it is zoned and has some instances in it. The combat, the world and classes seems to be fairly generic so far. I'm guessing the quest system and UI will also be the standard MMO type. Personally I would want to see an evolution of EQ and Vanguard rather than the same old, same old.
I rather see battles being rarer but more meaningful. Instead or tearing through a hundred trolls or orcs, I would prefer to battle 5 that actually challenged us as a group. I want a stealth mechanic that can be used to sneak past mobs to rob a treasure chest or steal a rare item. I want assassins to actually fight like assassins, striking from the shadows or poisoning a trolls stale bread to take him out. In short, I want a group to have options in how to do dungeons.
Sure they can fight their way through, but wouldn't it be interesting to sneak past the dragon an pinch his gold while he slept? Wouldn't it be fun to turn up at a bandits camp as a bard and get everyone drunk on songs and wine and then slitting their throats as they slept? Or how about turning up in a village and using their graveyard to summon their dead to turn them against the locals just for the lols. That would excite me. Pantheon is just hit them till the die then move to the next step. There is no innovation here and I'm rather surprised because Brad is/or was a D&D table top player.
You know, I think I am with you on this. I most certainly like the idea of an ‘Old School’ mmo that challenges its player base, and I think a greater focus on grouping will create a stronger community. Coming from AC1 though, I don’t think everything should require a group, especially once you start to grow in power, (I’m talking about quick and minor task and quests i.e. dailies and farming, but I digress.)
What a true sequel to the first generation of MMO’s needs is innovation. Brad and company should use EQ1 as a model and reference, but they should build on it instead of emulating it’s completely. Take combat for example. Find a way to make it more engaging for everyone involved. A healer should not just be staring at health bars, the DPS should be doing other things to aid the tank and healer, and hell the even the tank should be worrying about other things aside from threat and mitigation. I just think it’s time we build on the tank and spank model of old. I don’t want a zerg either but I want more options for sure. If rogues can stun for example then allow them to stun mobs, even bosses, at the right moment to add additional depth to combat. This is just one example, but I think you can see where I am going with this.
Another example of innovation of the old style is how a group would enter a dungeon or raid. I never understand why mobs from all over a dungeon would not running towards the entrance the moment a group of players entered and started fighting, loudly! Why not have the players use some of their stealthy classes to take out some mobs and then have us wear their armor as a disguise so we can infiltrate the dungeon? Or have a portion of the group create a diversion while our main force battles through the entrance. Heck maybe we can use that destructible feature EQ:N is so fond of to create an entrance of our own. Again, I hope everyone can see where I am going with this. Its 2014, let’s use the technology we have today to create a far more engrossing and tactical experience. There shouldn’t be only one way to do a dungeon, or even group combat. There shouldn’t be only one way to do anything in a truly immersive game.
I don't have anything constructive to add, but damn I want to see some rocket surgery performed!
I agree with you on that. They seemed a bit bored while reading off their script for their pitch, which makes me not enthusiastic enough to give them my money. There's no heart and soul feel to their pitch. It was more like "we want to make an mmo, meh, yah wanna help see if we start it?".
I agree too, Mark Jacobs had lots of enthusiasm and he had a well thought presentation, was clear on his goals for Camelot Unchained, has a clear vision and presented it to everyone, and really makes everyone feel a part of the whole process of his game. He put a lot of time in interviewing, answering question, getting information out every day or two on the game. There was so much interaction with him. You know and knew exactly what you were getting when you pledged for his Kickstarter.
For Pantheon, they are just not that convincing they know what they want to do, for me to want to back them.
Hopefully, they can change my mind. So far though they come off as a group with a few ideas and no clear vision yet.
I would love an old school mmorpg like we had with Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot (Pre-ToA), and there's a big market for that. We old school mmorpg'ers are still out here and still want those types of mmo's. We haven't gone away, we just don't have any mmorpg's that we like and want to play out there atm. Give us a reason to throw our money at you.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
To be honest I always felt that MMO dungeon, level, and lair designers could learn a lot from table top game masters in this regard and it could benefit game play immensely. Everything from how to set up alarms and lines of communication with the right traps, spell selections, and defensive plans on. Instead all these mobs just stand there waiting for some one to approach too close.
You cannot improve a kick starter because it is just a fancy name for RMT,meaning real money trading,you trade them money for virtual items which are worthless because you never own virtual items.Oh i usually if not always see that your rmt gives you access to Alpha now as well,it was Beta for awhile but developers are going even lower in their standards.
I cannot fathom how people are accepting developers selling them Alpha access."TESTING" is suppose to be FREE,because you are helping the developer find bugs,issues,you are not suppose to pay for YOUR services,they are suppose to pay you if anything.
These issues are not relegated to just this game but ALL kick starters,they are imo ALL lame.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well, I have backed a few Kick Starters because I want to support games that may never come into existence without financial support. Star Citizen, Camelot Unchained and Hex are games I would like to play but would struggle to get capital for the project by normal means without making comprimises that could be counter to what the game is about. I do accept, however, that backers do not get as much bang for the buck, particularly those who spend $1000 and upwards on a project. But it is their money and they can spend it as they see fit.
Couldn't agree more about the tiers. I really don't see the value in backing the project. I mean, crap, we're talking about a subscription game. You're getting like 90% of your money from subs (you hope), so give away a digital copy of the game for like $10 or $20. Right now, you could literally purchase the game at launch and spend the same amount of money without any of the associated risk. I really don't think it's going to make it with the current reward tiers that are out there.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Agreed.
Since when is someone's email address an indication of that person's credibility? For crying out loud, we're not talking about someone no one's ever heard of before.
Will Brad get your email? Yes. So, does it matter what comes after Aradune@? No, not at all. But then, considering who made that post... I suppose I shouldn't expect any less.
There are certainly things that can be rightfully questioned or criticized regarding this KS campaign. Their pitch isn't particularly "exciting". Their tiers need some tweaking, and so on. However, nit-picking at an email address is not one of them. Too much fuss over too small a thing, frankly.
I hope it pans out for them and am definitely rooting for them (and will back it). But if it doesn't get funded, well... it won't be the first time a project I was totally behind and wanted to see succeed (and believe could on the merits of the project alone) didn't make it due to a weak KS offering.
Do you hold this opinion of any MMO/game in development, or only this one?
I ask because many ... perhaps even most early alpha/beta screenshots released for a game show placeholder/temporary assets, which are later replaced or otherwise improved. Pantheon is not the first, nor only game to do this. Not by a long shot.
Richard Garriot was showing off early screenshots of his game using Unity assets as well, and even said as much. I don't recall people ripping him apart for it, though... because in the end, it's early pre-alpha/prototyping, and it doesn't matter.
If the game gets into Beta or release using those same assets, then yes.. I'll agree 100%. At this point, though, it is not at all some bad thing that they're using stand-in assets. It's standard.
Yes, you are crazy. Ridiculous argument. There are plenty of legit arguments and you use this?
Such as?
It had crafting, but few people did it and it isnt remembered as a strong crafting system (though I loved that it was a status thing to have maxed crafting skills).
Not to mention, Brad has already stated that crafting will be in the game regardless. Whether it gets funded via Stretch Goal or not. If they meet the stretch goal, then they can focus on it sooner. If not, then they'll have to focus on it at a later time when the funding they acquire does make it feasible.
If anyone followed the KS for Dreamfall: Chapters, they'll recall one of the stretch goals being the ability to make a full on, classic 2D adventure game (aside from the main game). Same situation there... If they got the funding during the KS, they would be able to begin initial work on it sooner. If not, then it would have to start at a later time, but they still intend on doing it, regardless.
The purpose of the Pantheon KS (as he's also already explained) is to get the funding to help get the ball rolling, and they are keeping it focused on the core elements of the game. More funding will follow afterward. KS is not the be all, end all for them. It's just to get things moving in a more official capacity, as they've been working out of pocket for the last several months up 'til now.
All this information is out there. It's all been explained already - multiple times in some cases. So it really boggles my mind how people could have done so little research on the project before coming here and making some of the remarks I see people making. I have to wonder if they skim and don't catch all the specific details, if they do read everything but selectively "forget" certain details just so they can pick something to complain about... or if they simply aren't reading anything at all.
Uh...did you not read the interview right here on MMORPG.com? He makes it pretty clear that if they don't make it as a stretch goal it will most likely be added as an expansion. Personally I find the need to have an expansion to add crafting hilarious and even more so considering it will probably cost money. "hey can you craft me a health pot?" "Nah sorry can't craft don't have the expansion." lulz.
Steam: Neph
My point was just that it had something to do besides pve combat. Crafting would count as that something. Pantheon offers nothing except pve combat. Oh and lets keep slow leveling because old school players like it or maybe because we really can't produce very much content.
Steam: Neph
I thought they'd make the base level, but not sure now. I personally they think they should let it fail, wait 2-3 months and try again with more content. They don't even have concept art for the races or classes! What a joke. I want this game to be made, but this is a poorly run KS. People want to see things, not just read about lore IMO. They announced they were working on it since September, surely they have some concept art for every single class and race? The KS project is the time to flood fans/potential backers with everything you have.
I realize this is 3+ years out, but come on.
Take notes on successful KS MMO projects like Panthfinder Online (which was super close to not making it, but ended up above even a stretch goal or two) and Camelot Unchained. CU was one of the better KS MMOs i feel. Great reward in backing and a lot of details, even a tech demo that was updated multiple times during the project. They got their **** together. Brad doesn't quite yet 
So.... you're agreeing with me, just with different words.
Cool.
The idea is: When they've gotten the funding necessary to make it happen, they will be adding crafting. When it comes, or how it comes is all logistics. But at the end of the day, it boils down to the same thing. More Development Money = Crafting System.
Yeah, while I'm behind what they want to do 100%, and I would back it regardless, because something like that needs to get made, and I have no problem believing the folks at Visionary can do it (esp. given the tighter focus they're giving it, etc)...
I have to agree, though, their KS campaign isn't what it could/should be and it could well hurt them.
It's kinda reminiscent of what Tom Hall, John Romero and Brenda Brathwaite attempted to do with their "old school RPG" project. They kinda went on KS and presented it to people... but didn't have very much info about it. Actually, Pantheon has had more out of the gate than I think even they did.
But point stands, you gotta come out of the gate at full gallop, ready to impress. I don't think Brad and co. have done that. They kinda leaped out, and are now trying to quickly get up to full speed.
Ah well... They've got almost an entire month yet to turn it around. Maybe they can change that before the deadline.
Its not going to get funded anyway, Its been there for almost two weeks it doesnt even have 300k, so that means it needs to raise 500K in 25 days. Thats 20K a day for that mathematically challenged, or 80 people at the 250 level. The average person right now is putting in 126.50. So they need to see people double that going forward.
That tells me a couple things, people realize what it is, and even at its best its trying to raise 800k just to open the office (not even get the game going), and that people have more brains that I give them credit for.
If it does by some miracle get funded it surely wont be by people donating to it. So if it does make its mark in the 11th hour you can rest assured that is just a down payment on the game for some random buy out.