This is a be careful what you wish for kind of request. If your game has any kind of PVE focus - and a Holy Trinity system people quickly figure out which skill combinations are optimal - and then you end up with only 3 'classes'. Having real classes enables you to make sure there is some diversity in your world - and that's the reason why gaming companies do it.
That's a big "if," though.
Generally speaking classless/free-form games tend to be less... rigid in their proximity to the 'holy trinity.' (Which is to say, you can shoehorn in approximations to claim it's there, but it's usually an oversimplification to do so) and more broad in scope than what's implied by "PVE focus." (Though that breadth often means the PvE that is there is unlikely to be as deep as it would be in a game that was focused on it.)
I think due to my age I still favor class based games because of all the fantasy novels i have read i like to play a character in a defined role. However I am eager to give TESO and EQN but fear if I attempt to build a role specific class I will gimp myself
Are you sure it's the traditional class based gameplay that you find dull over the years and not simply the bad game releases?
I can't speak for anyone else, but as I'm feeling the same way regarding tabletop games lately I'm pretty sure that it's not just the bad game releases.
This has been said many times before, but my feeling is classes are just being dumbed down.
In older RPGs your choice of race had a large impact on how well your class would perform. You had to worry where you put your attribute points on level up. There were many more abilities available for use and they were a lot less generic/balanced towards PvP.
Now you have any race being effective at any class. You have attributes being assigned automatically at level up. Most MMOs these days have only a few abilities to use and they are all geared towards being balanced for PvP.
In summary there isn't much challenge in character development and there is much variety in races, character development, and class abilities.
This has been said many times before, but my feeling is classes are just being dumbed down.
In older RPGs your choice of race had a large impact on how well your class would perform. You had to worry where you put your attribute points on level up. There were many more abilities available for use and they were a lot less generic/balanced towards PvP.
Now you have any race being effective at any class. You have attributes being assigned automatically at level up. Most MMOs these days have only a few abilities to use and they are all geared towards being balanced for PvP.
In summary there isn't much challenge in character development and there is much variety in races, character development, and class abilities.
You can't treat an MMO they way you would do a single player game. You can play sub-optimal guys in Skyrim and have a grand time. in fact its actually the way to go because if you optomize your character in skyrim you invest in enchanting, blacksmithing and alchemy and it totally destroys the game.
You end up with the strongest possible character doing nothing but these three skills. You can work around that and have alot of choice by running with a sub-optimal build.
But in an MMO with goal and challenge there is an element of competition even in PVE. Run some crap build and you get booted from groups and people will tell you to change. In PVP prepare to get absolutely hated on..by your own team if you make your character purposely inferior.
If you understand this you will see why designers shy away from classless sytems - you end up with less diversity in your game world. Now maybe people will still frown on Rangers in groups - but at least the designers will know they need to be buffed and other players understand that hey you have no real choice but to be a bit weaker as a ranger.
Again this is a be careful what you wish for scenario. Good designers don't let players dictate game design. I feel GW2 suffered enough from this as the developers were talked into abandoning the holy trinity early on. Likewise I think any fan driven 'class free' game is going to be met with alot of problems.
This has been said many times before, but my feeling is classes are just being dumbed down.
In older RPGs your choice of race had a large impact on how well your class would perform. You had to worry where you put your attribute points on level up. There were many more abilities available for use and they were a lot less generic/balanced towards PvP.
Now you have any race being effective at any class. You have attributes being assigned automatically at level up. Most MMOs these days have only a few abilities to use and they are all geared towards being balanced for PvP.
In summary there isn't much challenge in character development and there is much variety in races, character development, and class abilities.
You can't treat an MMO they way you would do a single player game. You can play sub-optimal guys in Skyrim and have a grand time. in fact its actually the way to go because if you optomize your character in skyrim you invest in enchanting, blacksmithing and alchemy and it totally destroys the game.
You end up with the strongest possible character doing nothing but these three skills. You can work around that and have alot of choice by running with a sub-optimal build.
But in an MMO with goal and challenge there is an element of competition even in PVE. Run some crap build and you get booted from groups and people will tell you to change. In PVP prepare to get absolutely hated on..by your own team if you make your character purposely inferior.
If you understand this you will see why designers shy away from classless sytems - you end up with less diversity in your game world. Now maybe people will still frown on Rangers in groups - but at least the designers will know they need to be buffed and other players understand that hey you have no real choice but to be a bit weaker as a ranger.
Again this is a be careful what you wish for scenario. Good designers don't let players dictate game design. I feel GW2 suffered enough from this as the developers were talked into abandoning the holy trinity early on. Likewise I think any fan driven 'class free' game is going to be met with alot of problems.
Everquest is the most enjoyable MMO I ever played and the classes were heavily unbalanced in terms of PvP. Then again they never were balanced towards PvP in the first place and it was all the better for it.
This has been said many times before, but my feeling is classes are just being dumbed down.
In older RPGs your choice of race had a large impact on how well your class would perform. You had to worry where you put your attribute points on level up. There were many more abilities available for use and they were a lot less generic/balanced towards PvP.
Now you have any race being effective at any class. You have attributes being assigned automatically at level up. Most MMOs these days have only a few abilities to use and they are all geared towards being balanced for PvP.
In summary there isn't much challenge in character development and there is much variety in races, character development, and class abilities.
You can't treat an MMO they way you would do a single player game. You can play sub-optimal guys in Skyrim and have a grand time. in fact its actually the way to go because if you optomize your character in skyrim you invest in enchanting, blacksmithing and alchemy and it totally destroys the game.
You end up with the strongest possible character doing nothing but these three skills. You can work around that and have alot of choice by running with a sub-optimal build.
But in an MMO with goal and challenge there is an element of competition even in PVE. Run some crap build and you get booted from groups and people will tell you to change. In PVP prepare to get absolutely hated on..by your own team if you make your character purposely inferior.
If you understand this you will see why designers shy away from classless sytems - you end up with less diversity in your game world. Now maybe people will still frown on Rangers in groups - but at least the designers will know they need to be buffed and other players understand that hey you have no real choice but to be a bit weaker as a ranger.
Again this is a be careful what you wish for scenario. Good designers don't let players dictate game design. I feel GW2 suffered enough from this as the developers were talked into abandoning the holy trinity early on. Likewise I think any fan driven 'class free' game is going to be met with alot of problems.
Everquest is the most enjoyable MMO I ever played and the classes were heavily unbalanced in terms of PvP. Then again they never were balanced towards PvP in the first place and it was all the better for it.
I was talking about PvE balance. Monks were nerfed hard because of PvE balance in EQ - so lets not pretend that EQ just left things unbalanced. They sucked at fixing it - but they were trying.
Comments
That's a big "if," though.
Generally speaking classless/free-form games tend to be less... rigid in their proximity to the 'holy trinity.' (Which is to say, you can shoehorn in approximations to claim it's there, but it's usually an oversimplification to do so) and more broad in scope than what's implied by "PVE focus." (Though that breadth often means the PvE that is there is unlikely to be as deep as it would be in a game that was focused on it.)
Are you sure it's the traditional class based gameplay that you find dull over the years and not simply the bad game releases?
Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)
I can't speak for anyone else, but as I'm feeling the same way regarding tabletop games lately I'm pretty sure that it's not just the bad game releases.
This has been said many times before, but my feeling is classes are just being dumbed down.
In older RPGs your choice of race had a large impact on how well your class would perform. You had to worry where you put your attribute points on level up. There were many more abilities available for use and they were a lot less generic/balanced towards PvP.
Now you have any race being effective at any class. You have attributes being assigned automatically at level up. Most MMOs these days have only a few abilities to use and they are all geared towards being balanced for PvP.
In summary there isn't much challenge in character development and there is much variety in races, character development, and class abilities.
You can't treat an MMO they way you would do a single player game. You can play sub-optimal guys in Skyrim and have a grand time. in fact its actually the way to go because if you optomize your character in skyrim you invest in enchanting, blacksmithing and alchemy and it totally destroys the game.
You end up with the strongest possible character doing nothing but these three skills. You can work around that and have alot of choice by running with a sub-optimal build.
But in an MMO with goal and challenge there is an element of competition even in PVE. Run some crap build and you get booted from groups and people will tell you to change. In PVP prepare to get absolutely hated on..by your own team if you make your character purposely inferior.
If you understand this you will see why designers shy away from classless sytems - you end up with less diversity in your game world. Now maybe people will still frown on Rangers in groups - but at least the designers will know they need to be buffed and other players understand that hey you have no real choice but to be a bit weaker as a ranger.
Again this is a be careful what you wish for scenario. Good designers don't let players dictate game design. I feel GW2 suffered enough from this as the developers were talked into abandoning the holy trinity early on. Likewise I think any fan driven 'class free' game is going to be met with alot of problems.
Everquest is the most enjoyable MMO I ever played and the classes were heavily unbalanced in terms of PvP. Then again they never were balanced towards PvP in the first place and it was all the better for it.
I was talking about PvE balance. Monks were nerfed hard because of PvE balance in EQ - so lets not pretend that EQ just left things unbalanced. They sucked at fixing it - but they were trying.