I've though thought about going back into EvE Online...but besides that, is there anything else that isn't brain dead? I'd even consider EvE fairly brain dead if you're just PvE-ing for money.
EvE is no higher on the Bell curve than WoW. Skill training doesn't = having smarts. Allowing wholesale thievery doesn't = having smarts (just opportunity). Multiboxing at gate camps looking for sucker punches doesn't = having smarts. And that's the PvP side.
None of these games require much thinking, because if the average ADD/ADHD gamer had to do more than brag about numbers; flash his achieves and armor/gear/ships around as a 10ft epeen, he'd die of a stroke because he used more than one brain cell.
The gamers now don't stop to listen to the story.
The gamers now don't stop to figure puzzles.
The gamers just want to enter and run and get free prizes to brag about.
Thus, the "popular" MMOs will continue to have PvP with kill, kill and more kill mindsets.
You're right, if somebody is going to slam the gas into walls using a grossly overpowered car vs AI, forgetting about every corner or making clean laps, yeah it's completely brain dead and it's what I used to do as a kid.
I guess what's what MMOs are lacking, depth. It's kinda like today's FPS versus Counter-Strike, the skill ceiling is so low compared to CS:GO. I don't think there is anything wrong with making games easy because it caters to the general population and those who don't want to think; but for those of us that do want to think and play hard, why is there no reward for it?
Good of you to list the few things that slightly raise the skill ceiling for racing games but fail to mention that MMO's too require just as much of your brains. Neither are rocket science.
And if the skill ceiling is sooo low how come the hardest PvE content is still out of reach of the general population? Just like the hardest computer encounters in GT6 are out of reach of the general population (while the majority of the game can be completed by just about anyone).
In reality there are no differences between the games and you are just speaking nonsense.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
If you don't want a brain dead mmo ,you might want to stick to a couple of rpgs .two that spring top mind would be the witcher 2 third due out soon and Thief quite an old game now but still one of the best with a new one also due out soon .Or if you want some contest from other people heros of might and magic is excellent .
EvE is no higher on the Bell curve than WoW. Skill training doesn't = having smarts. Allowing wholesale thievery doesn't = having smarts (just opportunity). Multiboxing at gate camps looking for sucker punches doesn't = having smarts. And that's the PvP side.
Playing EVE well is complex. I don't know how "smart" you have to be but you do need to read, comprehend and remember a lot of information often quickly and under pressure. These are skills that WoW-type games are lacking, especially with all the UI mods that show you everything you are supposed to press in order to kill the bosses.
Sure there are things in EVE which any idiot can do without much learning but the game as a whole is definitely on the complex brain-power requiring end of the spectrum. Many things which we call people smart for are like this - just learning and memorization followed by sensible application of the learned information BTW.
EvE is no higher on the Bell curve than WoW. Skill training doesn't = having smarts. Allowing wholesale thievery doesn't = having smarts (just opportunity). Multiboxing at gate camps looking for sucker punches doesn't = having smarts. And that's the PvP side.
Playing EVE well is complex. I don't know how "smart" you have to be but you do need to read, comprehend and remember a lot of information often quickly and under pressure. These are skills that WoW-type games are lacking, especially with all the UI mods that show you everything you are supposed to press in order to kill the bosses.
Sure there are things in EVE which any idiot can do without much learning but the game as a whole is definitely on the complex brain-power requiring end of the spectrum. Many things which we call people smart for are like this - just learning and memorization followed by sensible application of the learned information BTW.
No different than raiding in other games, heck, even questing.
If you're referring to DBM, raids are now designed around it. So anyone wanting to raid with the excuse they don't need DBM will fail the raid (and an excellent candidate to be kicked). You'll need it as the bosses no longer cue you of their next move.
In WoW the content is designed around the addons used. As a healer my healbox will show different debuffs and damage happening to players, and since it's a triage model now for healing, it's identifying the most in need to heal first, and yes, some will die because healers can't heal enough anymore (which is another ball of wax in itself).
EvE I found not anymore challenging than seeing the same cheap PvPers gate camping, as the same cheap WoW PvPers camping. The only skill required is not to drool on the keyboard. Besides, you can't have much skill in a game where right clicking (YES RIGHT CLICKING) is how you engage in combat. You don't use macros in EvE because firing missiles/guns/cannons require but 1 button (okay, 2 to unlock it to fire in empire space). PI was more involved, but again, that's PvE!
Besides, when the vets are all now claiming you don't even need skills to be a PvPer in EvE (you know the 3 day wonder Dessie pilots?), it's a moot point anyway. Even in WoW it'll require much more skills to join their first raid, than 3 days of playtime (well, in EvE skill time sitting in a dock).
If you are refering to the SWG that allows me to dual client characters then no thx...I was immediatly bored when I was gaining significant advantage in PvP and kill anything in PvE, thx to the sophisticated macro system in place. Dual clienting and looping macros should never been allowed. That's not how the game was meant to be played...
Fair enough I guess. In this iteration you CAN dual-client, which won't be in the final build. Nobody is making you dual client it up though. I never do. /shrug.
Honestly I'm in the same boat, OP. Skills should matter when you play a game, and it should feel like you're contributing to the world, not constantly being instanced for everything. Personally I love Mortal Online despite its outdated graphics and bugs. It's the closest thing that I can find right now to what I think an MMO should be. Real combat, unique crafting, tons of skills, and death matters. Give it a shot if you haven't yet, I can't promise anything but you just might enjoy it.
Originally posted by Arthasm Go raid heroics in Wow, with all addons available, then come and say it's brain dead.
Pfft, even LFR...
Easiest WoW last raid, but still needed DBM, as the dead guy in my healbox shows (if you get instagibbed there in LFR, it's a bot/multiboxer standing in fire, as only a single hot was enough to keep everyone healed -- DS was truly the worst raid e-v-e-r).
Funniest event in LFR on the spine was when a really abusive tank who yelled at the raid, literally w-a-l-k-e-d off it. Let's just say elitists get their own in a very dynamic way! Best RIP I saw for a tank...instagibbed.
Originally posted by Arthasm Go raid heroics in Wow, with all addons available, then come and say it's brain dead.
Didn't the top guilds (and by top I mean those guilds that raid 5-6 days out of 7 for 5-6 hours straight) in WOW already were 11/12 (or forgot exactly how many bosses) the first 1-2 weeks after they were released on heroic mode?
The fact bosses are static and predictable combined with youtube videos, hand holding you (giving you every detail what exactly you're suppose to do) and being able to practice them way before release in PTR (public test realm) makes it further simplistic. Oh and I forgot about all the addons, especially deadly boss mod that automatically has every single mechanic on every single boss with a big warning and a counter everytime its about to do something...
Originally posted by Arthasm Go raid heroics in Wow, with all addons available, then come and say it's brain dead.
Its brain dead.
Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
Originally posted by Arthasm Go raid heroics in Wow, with all addons available, then come and say it's brain dead.
Pfft, even LFR...
Easiest WoW last raid, but still needed DBM, as the dead guy in my healbox shows (if you get instagibbed there in LFR, it's a bot/multiboxer standing in fire, as only a single hot was enough to keep everyone healed -- DS was truly the worst raid e-v-e-r).
Funniest event in LFR on the spine was when a really abusive tank who yelled at the raid, literally w-a-l-k-e-d off it. Let's just say elitists get their own in a very dynamic way! Best RIP I saw for a tank...instagibbed.
I always find it funny people try and throw out WoW as some difficult game with Heroics... WoW's heroics are a frikkin joke. The hardest thing about Raiding in WoW is finding other nonnumb people to go with you. Since its WoW...that is what causes the issue.
Raiders in WoW would have cried at having to do things in old games like EQ or even a game in its own time period FFXI. Would of loved to of seen some of these "top" raiders try and tackle Absolute Virtue before the level cap raise. Such a joke.
Hell I'd love to see them do MCHM in TERA... oh the joy I would get out of seeing them fail so very hard.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Originally posted by Arthasm Go raid heroics in Wow, with all addons available, then come and say it's brain dead.
Didn't the top guilds (and by top I mean those guilds that raid 5-6 days out of 7 for 5-6 hours straight) in WOW already were 11/12 (or forgot exactly how many bosses) the first 1-2 weeks after they were released on heroic mode?
The fact bosses are static and predictable combined with youtube videos, hand holding you (giving you every detail what exactly you're suppose to do) and being able to practice them way before release in PTR (public test realm) makes it further simplistic. Oh and I forgot about all the addons, especially deadly boss mod that automatically has every single mechanic on every single boss with a big warning and a counter everytime its about to do something...
Anyways, enough said...
Can you then link me any hc end raid boss achievement, earned in current tier? Since it's so easy.
Originally posted by Arthasm Go raid heroics in Wow, with all addons available, then come and say it's brain dead.
Didn't the top guilds (and by top I mean those guilds that raid 5-6 days out of 7 for 5-6 hours straight) in WOW already were 11/12 (or forgot exactly how many bosses) the first 1-2 weeks after they were released on heroic mode?
The fact bosses are static and predictable combined with youtube videos, hand holding you (giving you every detail what exactly you're suppose to do) and being able to practice them way before release in PTR (public test realm) makes it further simplistic. Oh and I forgot about all the addons, especially deadly boss mod that automatically has every single mechanic on every single boss with a big warning and a counter everytime its about to do something...
Anyways, enough said...
The top guilds (like Dream Paragon) are professional gamers (they are paid endorsements, etc). If they don't exploit the mechanics, yes, in 2 weeks they're finished.
The rest of the rank and file will get through a heroic raid between 1 to 3 months from release on the populated realms.
One server didn't even kill the Lich King until Cata. My realm on Alliance didn't get the 25man NORMAL LK down until just before Ruby Sanctum was released (a full 8 months after ICC began).
Each realm is different. The progressive realms blaze through content; leveling realms take forever to down content (and why oh why are we connected to Bronzebeard who has even a worse raiding record???).
Originally posted by Arthasm Go raid heroics in Wow, with all addons available, then come and say it's brain dead.
Didn't the top guilds (and by top I mean those guilds that raid 5-6 days out of 7 for 5-6 hours straight) in WOW already were 11/12 (or forgot exactly how many bosses) the first 1-2 weeks after they were released on heroic mode?
The fact bosses are static and predictable combined with youtube videos, hand holding you (giving you every detail what exactly you're suppose to do) and being able to practice them way before release in PTR (public test realm) makes it further simplistic. Oh and I forgot about all the addons, especially deadly boss mod that automatically has every single mechanic on every single boss with a big warning and a counter everytime its about to do something...
Anyways, enough said...
Can you then link me any hc end raid boss achievement, earned in current tier? Since it's so easy.
Why ask for such easy achivement? You should've asked me to link "has raided 8 months straight without missing a single raid" or "getting hotter streak and 2k+ in 3v3 PvP in the same day....but of all my favorite was getting Battlemaster in summer 2011 when horde was on the losing end, good memories...
Sorry to disappoint you but I cannot link you any hc achiement in "current tier" since I was gone from the game long before others start leaving. I indefinitely quit month and a half after 5.2 was lanched without any intentions of coming back...It was nightmare finding 2k+ ranked players to furhter push rating in arena at peak times. I was spamming for hour+ across servers...
I don't think WOW even had 100k active subs at the time. The game only had around 650k DPS ranked around 2k in 3's in all servers (not counting European or Asian)
I am in the same boat as you. Hoping for Pantheon (yes, i have come this far,...).
I don't see wow hardmodes as hard, more like frustrating. It is not hard to follow a fixed tactic. But frustrating that 24 other guys have to do the same and if one fucks up, its game over. If people think that is hard, oh well. good for them :-)
Ill second the TSW answer. Best bet currently.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by Arthasm Go raid heroics in Wow, with all addons available, then come and say it's brain dead.
Didn't the top guilds (and by top I mean those guilds that raid 5-6 days out of 7 for 5-6 hours straight) in WOW already were 11/12 (or forgot exactly how many bosses) the first 1-2 weeks after they were released on heroic mode?
The fact bosses are static and predictable combined with youtube videos, hand holding you (giving you every detail what exactly you're suppose to do) and being able to practice them way before release in PTR (public test realm) makes it further simplistic. Oh and I forgot about all the addons, especially deadly boss mod that automatically has every single mechanic on every single boss with a big warning and a counter everytime its about to do something...
Anyways, enough said...
Can you then link me any hc end raid boss achievement, earned in current tier? Since it's so easy.
Why ask for such easy achivement? You should've asked me to link "has raided 8 months straight without missing a single raid" or "getting hotter streak and 2k+ in 3v3 PvP in the same day....but of all my favorite was getting Battlemaster in summer 2011 when horde was on the losing end, good memories...
Sorry to disappoint you but I cannot link you any hc achiement in "current tier" since I was gone from the game long before others start leaving. I indefinitely quit month and a half after 5.2 was lanched without any intentions of coming back...It was nightmare finding 2k+ ranked players to furhter push rating in arena at peak times. I was spamming for hour+ across servers...
I don't think WOW even had 100k active subs at the time. The game only had around 650k DPS ranked around 2k in 3's in all servers (not counting European or Asian)
Ok, screw achievements... But, did you kill Sha of Fear on HC, (again) since it's easy, before ToT?
Originally posted by Gorwe Wtf is dbm and why is it so necessary?
Never heard of it...
Deadly Boss Mods. It started as a Mod that would tell you exactly when bosses were going to use an attack, when to get out of the fire, when you were in danger at all. If you were in the vicinity of someone that had a debuff that would effect you and vice versa. It was a joke and made the game a joke.
Now its built right into the client. Raids are designed around it. If people fail in raids now a days they seriously should just go check their mental capacity. Especially since they are way easier than what they used to be back in BC and Vanilla. So now you have easier Raids and something that tells you exactly what to do and when to do it.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Sorry to disappoint you but I cannot link you any hc achiement in "current tier" since I was gone from the game long before others start leaving. I indefinitely quit month and a half after 5.2 was lanched without any intentions of coming back...It was nightmare finding 2k+ ranked players to furhter push rating in arena at peak times. I was spamming for hour+ across servers...
I don't think WOW even had 100k active subs at the time. The game only had around 650k DPS ranked around 2k in 3's in all servers (not counting European or Asian)
Huh? Step into the popular servers like Sageras and Frostmourne, even at 3am it's pretty busy with humans, not bots. Too over crowded for my tastes, but city folks would enjoy it.
Did you use OpenRaid or oQueue (yes, the addon) to help? Managed to get to almost 1800 rating via it before getting utterly bored of the kiddies that flocked to insta-win PvP (disgusting creatures, barn animals are better behaved). Besides, nothing is worse than Skype for messaging when 15 guys are in a group and one is a literal mouthbreather; the other has kids; and junior loves his death metal. Hell would be nicer! YOLO groups are becoming more popular just for that reason alone. Skype is nasty for a game like WoW, nasty.
But you have to use the tools to do things in WoW, as Blizzard hasn't built it into the game itself -- players hacked the UI to bring OpenRaid and oQueue as a means to cross-realm raids and RBG, as smaller realms can't/don't support normal/heroic raids nor 1500+ arena/RBG teams (when Emberstorm existed, it was at the bottom of arena/RBG participation, for example. oQueue was the ONLY way to get past 1500, or to find a normal raid).
Comments
EvE is no higher on the Bell curve than WoW. Skill training doesn't = having smarts. Allowing wholesale thievery doesn't = having smarts (just opportunity). Multiboxing at gate camps looking for sucker punches doesn't = having smarts. And that's the PvP side.
None of these games require much thinking, because if the average ADD/ADHD gamer had to do more than brag about numbers; flash his achieves and armor/gear/ships around as a 10ft epeen, he'd die of a stroke because he used more than one brain cell.
The gamers now don't stop to listen to the story.
The gamers now don't stop to figure puzzles.
The gamers just want to enter and run and get free prizes to brag about.
Thus, the "popular" MMOs will continue to have PvP with kill, kill and more kill mindsets.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Good of you to list the few things that slightly raise the skill ceiling for racing games but fail to mention that MMO's too require just as much of your brains. Neither are rocket science.
And if the skill ceiling is sooo low how come the hardest PvE content is still out of reach of the general population? Just like the hardest computer encounters in GT6 are out of reach of the general population (while the majority of the game can be completed by just about anyone).
In reality there are no differences between the games and you are just speaking nonsense.
Playing EVE well is complex. I don't know how "smart" you have to be but you do need to read, comprehend and remember a lot of information often quickly and under pressure. These are skills that WoW-type games are lacking, especially with all the UI mods that show you everything you are supposed to press in order to kill the bosses.
Sure there are things in EVE which any idiot can do without much learning but the game as a whole is definitely on the complex brain-power requiring end of the spectrum. Many things which we call people smart for are like this - just learning and memorization followed by sensible application of the learned information BTW.
No different than raiding in other games, heck, even questing.
If you're referring to DBM, raids are now designed around it. So anyone wanting to raid with the excuse they don't need DBM will fail the raid (and an excellent candidate to be kicked). You'll need it as the bosses no longer cue you of their next move.
In WoW the content is designed around the addons used. As a healer my healbox will show different debuffs and damage happening to players, and since it's a triage model now for healing, it's identifying the most in need to heal first, and yes, some will die because healers can't heal enough anymore (which is another ball of wax in itself).
EvE I found not anymore challenging than seeing the same cheap PvPers gate camping, as the same cheap WoW PvPers camping. The only skill required is not to drool on the keyboard. Besides, you can't have much skill in a game where right clicking (YES RIGHT CLICKING) is how you engage in combat. You don't use macros in EvE because firing missiles/guns/cannons require but 1 button (okay, 2 to unlock it to fire in empire space). PI was more involved, but again, that's PvE!
Besides, when the vets are all now claiming you don't even need skills to be a PvPer in EvE (you know the 3 day wonder Dessie pilots?), it's a moot point anyway. Even in WoW it'll require much more skills to join their first raid, than 3 days of playtime (well, in EvE skill time sitting in a dock).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Come play SWG with us.
If you are refering to the SWG that allows me to dual client characters then no thx...I was immediatly bored when I was gaining significant advantage in PvP and kill anything in PvE, thx to the sophisticated macro system in place. Dual clienting and looping macros should never been allowed. That's not how the game was meant to be played...
Pfft, even LFR...
Easiest WoW last raid, but still needed DBM, as the dead guy in my healbox shows (if you get instagibbed there in LFR, it's a bot/multiboxer standing in fire, as only a single hot was enough to keep everyone healed -- DS was truly the worst raid e-v-e-r).
Funniest event in LFR on the spine was when a really abusive tank who yelled at the raid, literally w-a-l-k-e-d off it. Let's just say elitists get their own in a very dynamic way! Best RIP I saw for a tank...instagibbed.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Didn't the top guilds (and by top I mean those guilds that raid 5-6 days out of 7 for 5-6 hours straight) in WOW already were 11/12 (or forgot exactly how many bosses) the first 1-2 weeks after they were released on heroic mode?
The fact bosses are static and predictable combined with youtube videos, hand holding you (giving you every detail what exactly you're suppose to do) and being able to practice them way before release in PTR (public test realm) makes it further simplistic. Oh and I forgot about all the addons, especially deadly boss mod that automatically has every single mechanic on every single boss with a big warning and a counter everytime its about to do something...
Anyways, enough said...
Its brain dead.
I always find it funny people try and throw out WoW as some difficult game with Heroics... WoW's heroics are a frikkin joke. The hardest thing about Raiding in WoW is finding other nonnumb people to go with you. Since its WoW...that is what causes the issue.
Raiders in WoW would have cried at having to do things in old games like EQ or even a game in its own time period FFXI. Would of loved to of seen some of these "top" raiders try and tackle Absolute Virtue before the level cap raise. Such a joke.
Hell I'd love to see them do MCHM in TERA... oh the joy I would get out of seeing them fail so very hard.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Can you then link me any hc end raid boss achievement, earned in current tier? Since it's so easy.
The top guilds (like Dream Paragon) are professional gamers (they are paid endorsements, etc). If they don't exploit the mechanics, yes, in 2 weeks they're finished.
The rest of the rank and file will get through a heroic raid between 1 to 3 months from release on the populated realms.
One server didn't even kill the Lich King until Cata. My realm on Alliance didn't get the 25man NORMAL LK down until just before Ruby Sanctum was released (a full 8 months after ICC began).
Each realm is different. The progressive realms blaze through content; leveling realms take forever to down content (and why oh why are we connected to Bronzebeard who has even a worse raiding record???).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Why ask for such easy achivement? You should've asked me to link "has raided 8 months straight without missing a single raid" or "getting hotter streak and 2k+ in 3v3 PvP in the same day....but of all my favorite was getting Battlemaster in summer 2011 when horde was on the losing end, good memories...
Sorry to disappoint you but I cannot link you any hc achiement in "current tier" since I was gone from the game long before others start leaving. I indefinitely quit month and a half after 5.2 was lanched without any intentions of coming back...It was nightmare finding 2k+ ranked players to furhter push rating in arena at peak times. I was spamming for hour+ across servers...
I don't think WOW even had 100k active subs at the time. The game only had around 650k DPS ranked around 2k in 3's in all servers (not counting European or Asian)
I am in the same boat as you. Hoping for Pantheon (yes, i have come this far,...).
I don't see wow hardmodes as hard, more like frustrating. It is not hard to follow a fixed tactic. But frustrating that 24 other guys have to do the same and if one fucks up, its game over. If people think that is hard, oh well. good for them :-)
Ill second the TSW answer. Best bet currently.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Ok, screw achievements... But, did you kill Sha of Fear on HC, (again) since it's easy, before ToT?
Deadly Boss Mods. It started as a Mod that would tell you exactly when bosses were going to use an attack, when to get out of the fire, when you were in danger at all. If you were in the vicinity of someone that had a debuff that would effect you and vice versa. It was a joke and made the game a joke.
Now its built right into the client. Raids are designed around it. If people fail in raids now a days they seriously should just go check their mental capacity. Especially since they are way easier than what they used to be back in BC and Vanilla. So now you have easier Raids and something that tells you exactly what to do and when to do it.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Huh? Step into the popular servers like Sageras and Frostmourne, even at 3am it's pretty busy with humans, not bots. Too over crowded for my tastes, but city folks would enjoy it.
Did you use OpenRaid or oQueue (yes, the addon) to help? Managed to get to almost 1800 rating via it before getting utterly bored of the kiddies that flocked to insta-win PvP (disgusting creatures, barn animals are better behaved). Besides, nothing is worse than Skype for messaging when 15 guys are in a group and one is a literal mouthbreather; the other has kids; and junior loves his death metal. Hell would be nicer! YOLO groups are becoming more popular just for that reason alone. Skype is nasty for a game like WoW, nasty.
But you have to use the tools to do things in WoW, as Blizzard hasn't built it into the game itself -- players hacked the UI to bring OpenRaid and oQueue as a means to cross-realm raids and RBG, as smaller realms can't/don't support normal/heroic raids nor 1500+ arena/RBG teams (when Emberstorm existed, it was at the bottom of arena/RBG participation, for example. oQueue was the ONLY way to get past 1500, or to find a normal raid).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Op
My answer to you question
I don't play any mmog atm.