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Proof of Non Linear GAMEPLAY! Open World/Sandbox RPG! Skyrim Type of Exploration/Questing Mainstor

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  • GatlanGatlan Member UncommonPosts: 141
    As someone who is looking forward to ESO's release I am a little embarrassed by the OP.  
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,952
    Originally posted by fistorm
     

    Heres how it works this is how the Creative Director told it.

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/01/qa-with-paul-sage/

    Post #131


    Question:

    In this game is it like all MMO’s were certain areas have certain enemy’s that will overpower you if your not the right level

    or is it more like skyrim were a mudcrab is just a mudcrab and a wolf is just a wolf.

    For example:

    Say your in a level, 20 spot exploring when you run into a mudcrab. But your only level 10. Will the mudcrab still be an easy kill or will it be able to kill you since its in a level 20 area?

     

    Answer:

    ESO is more like Morrowind in its leveling with regards to monsters. Monsters and players have definite levels. ESO also has zones which are tuned to certain levels. These zones allow you to meet people around your level range and adventure together or just let you know what you are getting into. Once you hit 50 and venture into the other Alliances, level doesn’t mean as much and you will be able to go from place to place without worry of being overpowered so much.

    Creative Director Paul Sage:

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

    In ESO, you choose one of three alliances, each with different zones, quests, and stories to explore. Once you hit level 50, you can choose to journey to another alliance's territory and experience a more difficult (and rewarding) version of those areas. After you complete the story within in the second alliance, you can travel to the third faction and complete the content there.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • BruhzaBruhza Member UncommonPosts: 391

    Sorry, I can't see anything with this giant layer of hype in my way.

     

    (Try not to be hyped for an MMO, you may enjoy it more)

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868

    Yup, I think most of you envision some 2020 gaming.  I don't think you'll see what your asking for, for at least another 5 more years.   One step at a time.  Take what you can get now my friend.   Its the best you can get and atleat 500% better end game sandbox then every MMO out to date.

     

    Don't rob yourself of the 4/5 of the gameworld as an END GAME sandbox just because you have to go through 1/5 of it as a leveling system....   it would be shame to see you threw away such fun over that 1/5 of what you don't like.

     

     

  • BoreilBoreil Member UncommonPosts: 448
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Creative Director...  PROOF OF NON-LINER GAMEPLAY!!!   OPEN WORLD RPG!!!!  FULLY SKYRIM TYPE OF EXPLORATION AND QUESTING!!!

     

     

    Post #124

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/01/qa-with-paul-sage/comment-page-13

    How long would you say the main storyline be?

    Very hard question to answer in all fairness. It spans multiple levels, so it really depends on the player. If you could play them all together…? Five – Six hours? This is a WAG.

    image

     

    That's RIGHT!!!  MAIN STORYLINE ONLY 5-6 HOURS LONG>>>> Meaning, you can FREE ROAM PLAY and EXPLORE ALL YOU WANT, WHERE YOU WANT and WHEN YOU WANT,  FREE to do the SIDE QUEST CHAINS in ANY ORDER  just like SKYRIM had.

    Maybe even Sandbox?

     

    This is not even remotely close to accurate in any way at all .

    image

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Yup, I think most of you envision some 2020 gaming.  I don't think you'll see what your asking for, for at least another 5 more years.   One step at a time.  Take what you can get now my friend.   Its the best you can get and atleat 500% better end game sandbox then every MMO out to date.

    There is no end game sandbox. Quest hubs and a large instanced world just doesn't equal sandbox. But meh, you can just keep repeating it over and over again. I don't think anyone is actually taking the claim seriously any longer because of what you said constitutes a sandbox earlier.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,069
    Theme box or sand park are probably better terms to describe this title, as most still agree it is not really a sand box style mmo by the classic definition.

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  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Yup, I think most of you envision some 2020 gaming.  I don't think you'll see what your asking for, for at least another 5 more years.   One step at a time.  Take what you can get now my friend.   Its the best you can get and atleat 500% better end game sandbox then every MMO out to date.

    There is no end game sandbox. Quest hubs and a large instanced world just doesn't equal sandbox. But meh, you can just keep repeating it over and over again. I don't think anyone is actually taking the claim seriously any longer because of what you said constitutes a sandbox earlier.

    Like I said, your vision of a sandbox is that of RUST or  Dayz,  how can an RPG exist in your vision of one.   Why don't you make a post and tell us every single thing you want in an MMORPG sandbox so we can understand you better?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Theme box or sand park are probably better terms to describe this title, as most still agree it is not really a sand box style mmo by the classic definition.

    What features would you say are sandbox-like?

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    image

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  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Theme box or sand park are probably better terms to describe this title, as most still agree it is not really a sand box style mmo by the classic definition.

    What features would you say are sandbox-like?

    If I get you right you want Every Mob in game to be your level at the START of the game?   Is that the only beef you have with it?   Before people said you had to follow a main storyline and were outraged, now we find out its only 5-6 hours long.  Is 5-6 hours that bad to have to go through,  would you consider that linear?   Should the game have NO Quests?   Is that what you want?   Idk you tell me.

  • BoreilBoreil Member UncommonPosts: 448
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by fistorm

    That's RIGHT!!!  MAIN STORYLINE ONLY 5-6 HOURS LONG>>>> Meaning, you can FREE ROAM PLAY and EXPLORE ALL YOU WANT, WHERE YOU WANT and WHEN YOU WANT,  FREE to do the SIDE QUEST CHAINS in ANY ORDER  just like SKYRIM had.

    I'm curious on how long does it take to reach level cap ?   days?  weeks ?

     My money is on players capping out within the first or second day of the game's release/pre-release.

    Thats completely impossible.

     

     

    SandPark, with a capital P.

    image

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Theme box or sand park are probably better terms to describe this title, as most still agree it is not really a sand box style mmo by the classic definition.

    What features would you say are sandbox-like?

    If I get you right you want Every Mob in game to be your level at the START of the game?   Is that the only beef you have with it?   Before people said you had to follow a main storyline and were outraged, now we find out its only 5-6 hours long.  Is 5-6 hours that bad to have to go through,  would you consider that linear?   Should the game have NO Quests?   Is that what you want?   Idk you tell me.

    No, I don't have a beef with the game. I just know that describing it as a sandbox is ridiculous.

  • BruhzaBruhza Member UncommonPosts: 391
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Yup, I think most of you envision some 2020 gaming.  I don't think you'll see what your asking for, for at least another 5 more years.   One step at a time.  Take what you can get now my friend.   Its the best you can get and atleat 500% better end game sandbox then every MMO out to date.

    There is no end game sandbox. Quest hubs and a large instanced world just doesn't equal sandbox. But meh, you can just keep repeating it over and over again. I don't think anyone is actually taking the claim seriously any longer because of what you said constitutes a sandbox earlier.

    Like I said, your vision of a sandbox is that of RUST or  Dayz,  how can an RPG exist in your vision of one.   Why don't you make a post and tell us every single thing you want in an MMORPG sandbox so we can understand you better?

    A sandbox is where you have an effect of some sort on the actual world (Destroying landscape, building a home, capturing a PVP area(No Cyrodiil is not a Sandbox area either)), not being instanced and viewable to all. Having an open world does not equal a sandbox. Which is why some are responding in this way.

     

    (Look at "The Repopulation" or "Star Wars Galaxies" for an actual sandbox, or at least most people refer to. Sorry, but this is not that.)

     

    (Edit: Can't believe I forgot EVE 0.o(Massive sandbox))

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Theme box or sand park are probably better terms to describe this title, as most still agree it is not really a sand box style mmo by the classic definition.

    What features would you say are sandbox-like?

    If I get you right you want Every Mob in game to be your level at the START of the game?   Is that the only beef you have with it?   Before people said you had to follow a main storyline and were outraged, now we find out its only 5-6 hours long.  Is 5-6 hours that bad to have to go through,  would you consider that linear?   Should the game have NO Quests?   Is that what you want?   Idk you tell me.

    No, I don't have a beef with the game. I just know that describing it as a sandbox is ridiculous.

    Ok, well thanks for being honest about it atleast. 

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    I watched the video that states "IS the combat fun"?

    It was just two players yet they were telling us they wanted to give us the group feel ...umm 2 is not much of a group.

    Nonetheless,i watched and all the healer was doing was spamming,by his own admittance,so combat was TOO easy because he was not afraid to hold hate which he was doing steady.The Boss went down rather easy and there did not seem to be any action reaction buffs or debuffs,just a VERY simple looking combat not  very intuitive.

    Second part fo the video there was a larger group but everyone was again spamming,there seem to be no organized combat at all.

    Graphics seemed ok but as one narrator stated,your better in first person view so you can actually see the textures better,in far view there is no lighting on the textures,so they look bland and dark.

    To sum up the combat,it doesn't look any better than Nwn,just a few different spams over an d over,the healer actually looked to be using only 2 different spells.With that ,you don't even need a hotbar,just hold your fingers on a few numbers and spam.

    These guys are the MAIN guys,so go figure they actually feel they did a good job because imo that combat looks real weak,no depth.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 5,078

    WURM, ArcheAge, Life is Feudal , EQN/EQLM are the only sandbox games that I know of, you know the actually be able to build stuff from the sand in the box (none of this we have ffa open loot pvp and a large world to gank in games)

    Edit: forgot about The Repopulation.

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by Bruhza
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Yup, I think most of you envision some 2020 gaming.  I don't think you'll see what your asking for, for at least another 5 more years.   One step at a time.  Take what you can get now my friend.   Its the best you can get and atleat 500% better end game sandbox then every MMO out to date.

    There is no end game sandbox. Quest hubs and a large instanced world just doesn't equal sandbox. But meh, you can just keep repeating it over and over again. I don't think anyone is actually taking the claim seriously any longer because of what you said constitutes a sandbox earlier.

    Like I said, your vision of a sandbox is that of RUST or  Dayz,  how can an RPG exist in your vision of one.   Why don't you make a post and tell us every single thing you want in an MMORPG sandbox so we can understand you better?

    A sandbox is where you have an effect of some sort on the actual world (Destroying landscape, building a home, capturing a PVP area(No Cyrodiil is not a Sandbox area either)), not being instanced and viewable to all. Having an open world does not equal a sandbox. Which is why some are responding in this way.

     

    (Look at "The Repopulation" or "Star Wars Galaxies" for an actual sandbox, or at least most people refer to. Sorry, but this is not that.)

     

    (Edit: Can't believe I forgot EVE 0.o(Massive sandbox))

    Acording to your description this is a Sandbox then.   You have exactly all of those things in this game.   The world changes,  other players do not see the same world as you see it because of the choices you make on quests.   They've said this over and over.  Its the phased technology they have.

     

    The only thing that's missing is that you cant build things...   lets wait and see if they give us the MOD kit like they did for SKYRIM first on that one.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Bruhza
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Yup, I think most of you envision some 2020 gaming.  I don't think you'll see what your asking for, for at least another 5 more years.   One step at a time.  Take what you can get now my friend.   Its the best you can get and atleat 500% better end game sandbox then every MMO out to date.

    There is no end game sandbox. Quest hubs and a large instanced world just doesn't equal sandbox. But meh, you can just keep repeating it over and over again. I don't think anyone is actually taking the claim seriously any longer because of what you said constitutes a sandbox earlier.

    Like I said, your vision of a sandbox is that of RUST or  Dayz,  how can an RPG exist in your vision of one.   Why don't you make a post and tell us every single thing you want in an MMORPG sandbox so we can understand you better?

    A sandbox is where you have an effect of some sort on the actual world (Destroying landscape, building a home, capturing a PVP area(No Cyrodiil is not a Sandbox area either)), not being instanced and viewable to all. Having an open world does not equal a sandbox. Which is why some are responding in this way.

     

    (Look at "The Repopulation" or "Star Wars Galaxies" for an actual sandbox, or at least most people refer to. Sorry, but this is not that.)

     

    (Edit: Can't believe I forgot EVE 0.o(Massive sandbox))

    Acording to your description this is a Sandbox then.   You have exactly all of those things in this game.   The world changes,  other players do not see the same world as you see it because of the choices you make on quests.   They've said this over and over.  Its the phased technology they have.

     

    The only thing that's missing is that you can build things...   lets wait and see if they give us the MOD kit like they did for SKYRIM first on that one.

    No, phasing does not equal sandbox. Actually, using phasing to change the world for every player individually is pretty much the antithesis of sandbox.

  • killion81killion81 Member UncommonPosts: 995
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Drakynn

    I must be missing something...How does this prove non-linearity....it could just mean that the bulk of the games PvE is in side quests that go along the main storylines path,this is what SW:TOR did,or that you can explore anywhere you want at any time.

    I'm not saying that TESO is Linear or not,I haven't played it to know first hand but I don't see how this constitutes proof at all.

    Its what they been saying all along that its going to be just like "Questing is based on Exploration"  Explained in this video.

     

    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/media/videos/411Minute 5:34  Shows what questing WILL BE LIKE.

     

    They been trying to TELL US This ALL along right from the START, and now its PROVEN in WORDS!

     

    I hear him say at 6:45 - "Once you hit level 50, that's really where the game opens up."

     

    That sounds completely opposite to what you are saying...

  • BruhzaBruhza Member UncommonPosts: 391
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Bruhza
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Yup, I think most of you envision some 2020 gaming.  I don't think you'll see what your asking for, for at least another 5 more years.   One step at a time.  Take what you can get now my friend.   Its the best you can get and atleat 500% better end game sandbox then every MMO out to date.

    There is no end game sandbox. Quest hubs and a large instanced world just doesn't equal sandbox. But meh, you can just keep repeating it over and over again. I don't think anyone is actually taking the claim seriously any longer because of what you said constitutes a sandbox earlier.

    Like I said, your vision of a sandbox is that of RUST or  Dayz,  how can an RPG exist in your vision of one.   Why don't you make a post and tell us every single thing you want in an MMORPG sandbox so we can understand you better?

    A sandbox is where you have an effect of some sort on the actual world (Destroying landscape, building a home, capturing a PVP area(No Cyrodiil is not a Sandbox area either)), not being instanced and viewable to all. Having an open world does not equal a sandbox. Which is why some are responding in this way.

     

    (Look at "The Repopulation" or "Star Wars Galaxies" for an actual sandbox, or at least most people refer to. Sorry, but this is not that.)

     

    (Edit: Can't believe I forgot EVE 0.o(Massive sandbox))

    Acording to your description this is a Sandbox then.   You have exactly all of those things in this game.   The world changes,  other players do not see the same world as you see it because of the choices you make on quests.   They've said this over and over.  Its the phased technology they have.

     

    The only thing that's missing is that you cant build things...   lets wait and see if they give us the MOD kit like they did for SKYRIM first on that one.

    I'm sorry, I will not argue over this. However it has been announced multiple times that this is in no way a sandbox game. I would highly suggest lowering your expectations or you will be in for a fairly rude awakening. Just my advice.

     

    Again, if you wish to see a true sandbox, that most people are referring to, look at EVE.

  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 766
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    PLEASE, could you LAY OFF, the RANDOM all CAPS!

    Random?

     

    I saw caps used for EMPHASIS of the stuff  the OP was most excited about and wanted to DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO, hence the caps.

     

     

    Where you see chaos, I see order.

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I watched the video that states "IS the combat fun"?

    It was just two players yet they were telling us they wanted to give us the group feel ...umm 2 is not much of a group.

    Nonetheless,i watched and all the healer was doing was spamming,by his own admittance,so combat was TOO easy because he was not afraid to hold hate which he was doing steady.The Boss went down rather easy and there did not seem to be any action reaction buffs or debuffs,just a VERY simple looking combat not  very intuitive.

    Second part fo the video there was a larger group but everyone was again spamming,there seem to be no organized combat at all.

    Graphics seemed ok but as one narrator stated,your better in first person view so you can actually see the textures better,in far view there is no lighting on the textures,so they look bland and dark.

    To sum up the combat,it doesn't look any better than Nwn,just a few different spams over an d over,the healer actually looked to be using only 2 different spells.With that ,you don't even need a hotbar,just hold your fingers on a few numbers and spam.

    These guys are the MAIN guys,so go figure they actually feel they did a good job because imo that combat looks real weak,no depth.

    The Creative Director talked about this in the Q & A on tamerial foundry.  he answered some 380 questions on gameplay that people asked. 

     

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/01/qa-with-paul-sage/

     

    Whe he said basicly is that strategies would be based around multiple mobs coming at the group, and the person whos best suited tot tank would grab up the boss of the bunch, the dps would kill adds that are on them and so would the healer type.   Its based around mob groups attacking the party mainly.    I think this what you were looking for. 

     

    He also states that this wont be a game where the tank gathers up all the mobs and that's it like in most MMO's,  you have to pick your targets and ect wisely.  

  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 766
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Bruhza
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by fistorm

    Yup, I think most of you envision some 2020 gaming.  I don't think you'll see what your asking for, for at least another 5 more years.   One step at a time.  Take what you can get now my friend.   Its the best you can get and atleat 500% better end game sandbox then every MMO out to date.

    There is no end game sandbox. Quest hubs and a large instanced world just doesn't equal sandbox. But meh, you can just keep repeating it over and over again. I don't think anyone is actually taking the claim seriously any longer because of what you said constitutes a sandbox earlier.

    Like I said, your vision of a sandbox is that of RUST or  Dayz,  how can an RPG exist in your vision of one.   Why don't you make a post and tell us every single thing you want in an MMORPG sandbox so we can understand you better?

    A sandbox is where you have an effect of some sort on the actual world (Destroying landscape, building a home, capturing a PVP area(No Cyrodiil is not a Sandbox area either)), not being instanced and viewable to all. Having an open world does not equal a sandbox. Which is why some are responding in this way.

     

    (Look at "The Repopulation" or "Star Wars Galaxies" for an actual sandbox, or at least most people refer to. Sorry, but this is not that.)

     

    (Edit: Can't believe I forgot EVE 0.o(Massive sandbox))

    Acording to your description this is a Sandbox then.   You have exactly all of those things in this game.   The world changes,  other players do not see the same world as you see it because of the choices you make on quests.   They've said this over and over.  Its the phased technology they have.

     

    The only thing that's missing is that you can build things...   lets wait and see if they give us the MOD kit like they did for SKYRIM first on that one.

    No, phasing does not equal sandbox. Actually, using phasing to change the world for every player individually is pretty much the antithesis of sandbox.

    it is a sandbox, just a players private sandbox.

     

    Remember sim city? (not the most recent one) the world changed based on a players dicisions.  That is a sandbox, yet only lets one person affect the sand.

    Much the same thing here.

     

    So sandbox, yes.

     

    Sandbox MMO, no. 

     

     

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,030
    Originally posted by kyssari
    Probably been mentioned but I didn't skim the entire 5 pages of the thread but yeah, ESO is nowhere near nonlinear free roam exploration like SKyrim or ANY ES game at all. Theres a traditional leveling system meaning if you wander anywhere to far without leveling first your going to encounter higher level mobs that will melt your face before you even see em coming, they don't scale like in real ES games, that alone will greatly limit your explorability. Add to that the fact you cant enter the 2/3 of the world controlled by the other 2 factions and yeah... free roam exploration what?? You'll find quests by exploring sure but you won't be able to explore higher areas until you lvl up first thus requiring you to progress through each level of area in the typical linear fashion.

    It depends on how you define exploration. You say walking into mobs that "melt your face" is a limitation to exploration. Is it really? Does it provide an invisible wall between area 1 and area 2 or is it simply too dangerous to effectively consider exploring? Will you explore it eventually? Yes.

     

    You define linear as being forced to level in one area before moving on when inside of the leveling systems. This means you acknowledge there is a leveling system adopted from standard mmo progression systems but is it considered linear compared to other mmos? Do you chain quests from hubs where the very next hub is too difficult to complete or is even locked out until prerequisite quests are complete? This does not happen in TESO and each zone is effectively non-linear. They are only linear on a zone by zone basis through the leveling process (arguably less than 1/3 of the pve game). The difference in linear game play between quest hub progression and limitations by regional difficulty is significant to many and should be specified within your argument.

     

    You fail to discuss the reason why mechanics exist, why they were decided upon or suggest alternatives to the issues raised from the massive differences between a single player game and an mmo conversion. What is the impact of open systems when tens of thousands play on a single server? What limitations in tech prevent this? There are many things to consider.

     

    The ends result though is that ZOS is making an mmo. It will be different no matter what approach they tried to take. It is a side project to the single player line of games. Bethesda said it will not impact the development of the single player line. If you want a single player TES game you have to wait until the next one. This wouldn't change if TESO existed for not (likely). Perhaps once the more traditional leveling process is done the game will seem less restrictive as all mobs will be level 50 to you no matter where you go. Group content will still melt your face likely ... is this a restriction to exploration too?

     

    I'll add the my personal opinion is for ZOS to never raise the level cap and only ever add horizontal progression mechanics. I doubt this will happen but it seems their focus is far more on horizontal expansion for content (other than story progression). Typically this lends to adding more of a sandbox feel as long as previous content isn't overwritten. This is what upset most original players of Wow ... seeing the game progress vertically to such a massive extent which conflicted heavily with initial impressions in game.

     

    You stay sassy!

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