My best guess is that Blizzard was watching the latest trend and the "roller coaster" ride that buisness models are on right now, as well as their overall concept of the game and how well these other games like it are faring and wanted to make sure they didn't release a game that was doomed from the start. I am thinking Blizz put the project on hold to wait and see where the latest dust settles.
"Do we borrow from GW2?"
Do we go F2P, P2P, Hybrid or something else?"
"How do we integrate dynamic content?"
"Will quest hubs still fly?"
"Do we use a cash shop, Real Money Auction or just sell game currency for game time?"
"If not, is the subscription model really dead after all?"
"How successful will EQ:N & EQ:LM be?"
"Should we consider borrowing from them too?"
So many questions right now and so much uncertainty in the genre.
You miss the biggest question of them all ...
"Should we even be doing a MMORPG, or should we focus on other game types?"
My best guess is that Blizzard was watching the latest trend and the "roller coaster" ride that buisness models are on right now, as well as their overall concept of the game and how well these other games like it are faring and wanted to make sure they didn't release a game that was doomed from the start. I am thinking Blizz put the project on hold to wait and see where the latest dust settles.
"Do we borrow from GW2?"
Do we go F2P, P2P, Hybrid or something else?"
"How do we integrate dynamic content?"
"Will quest hubs still fly?"
"Do we use a cash shop, Real Money Auction or just sell game currency for game time?"
"If not, is the subscription model really dead after all?"
"How successful will EQ:N & EQ:LM be?"
"Should we consider borrowing from them too?"
So many questions right now and so much uncertainty in the genre.
You miss the biggest question of them all ...
"Should we even be doing a MMORPG, or should we focus on other game types?"
New MMORPG titles still bring in impressive box sales. It's retention that is difficult. Players still want a good MMO,
The question is really....
"Can we really create a game that can succeed WoW?" They probably don't want to release the new game and not have it do at least as well as WoW is doing.
blizzard does not release products already done in masses.
they set the standarts for em.
and plat0nic, i have seen most of those new games. none of em is actually better than WoW, sorry
Its because your right there where you belong. WoW had some masterminds hired like Psychologist, Mentalist and evaluated how to make people addicted to the game.
You say there are no better games then WoW, its not because its your own opinion after evaulating every game before getting hooked to one but because you got hooked to wow from the start. WoWs psychologists would say: your a prefered example.
Well, WoW's "psychologists" kicked me out of their clinic (/flex), so it's not addiction to the game that keeps me playing! lol
The success of WoW is once you get friends and/or family playing, they'll hogtie you to the game, instead. I can be gone from WoW for 90+ days, and then my sis comes needing help again. It's always about help/assistance, as are you going to deny helping friends and/or family?
It's not WoW, it's your own that keeps pulling you back, despite you really don't want to play anymore BECAUSE THEY NERFED YOUR CLASS TO THE GROUND WITH STUPID FILLER MECHANICS, ALL TO CONTROL BURST, WITH A BURST CLASS!!! o.O
My best guess is that Blizzard was watching the latest trend and the "roller coaster" ride that buisness models are on right now, as well as their overall concept of the game and how well these other games like it are faring and wanted to make sure they didn't release a game that was doomed from the start. I am thinking Blizz put the project on hold to wait and see where the latest dust settles.
"Do we borrow from GW2?"
Do we go F2P, P2P, Hybrid or something else?"
"How do we integrate dynamic content?"
"Will quest hubs still fly?"
"Do we use a cash shop, Real Money Auction or just sell game currency for game time?"
"If not, is the subscription model really dead after all?"
"How successful will EQ:N & EQ:LM be?"
"Should we consider borrowing from them too?"
So many questions right now and so much uncertainty in the genre.
You miss the biggest question of them all ...
"Should we even be doing a MMORPG, or should we focus on other game types?"
New MMORPG titles still bring in impressive box sales. It's retention that is difficult. Players still want a good MMO,
The question is really....
"Can we really create a game that can succeed WoW?"
I have to believe they want to see if SoE can do it with Everquest.
The last "impressive" MMORPG box sale is GW2, which i think sold something like 2-3M copies. While that is not bad, it is pretty pale in comparison to D3's 12M boxes sales, or SC2's 6M copies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#PC).
And as you say, retention is difficult, particularly with a sub (EQN is F2P, BTW). There are plenty of other types of games with much better box sales than MMOs, so i don't see a compelling reason, if i were Blizz, that Blizz has to make another MMORPG.
Doesn't it bother anybody that we have so many on the forums with the attitude of:
"What? You found a game you enjoy? (WoW) Then we must burn it to the ground! To the freaking ground!!! And the company too! And every game that company makes! To the ground baby!!"
The last "impressive" MMORPG box sale is GW2, which i think sold something like 2-3M copies. While that is not bad, it is pretty pale in comparison to D3's 12M boxes sales
Keep in mind many of Diablo 3's "box" sales came from WoW players who signed up for 1 year of WoW subscription for a free copy of Diablo 3.
That is how Blizzard kept people playing WoW and boost D3 sales in one pass (and probably how Titan will be offered, to keep people playing WoW with a new MMO).
Like I said, Blizzard has a built in fanboi section that will buy their games to the tune of millions, internally. The rest are outside sales, which Blizzard has a presence for over 10 years.
Well, WoW's "psychologists" kicked me out of their clinic (/flex), so it's not addiction to the game that keeps me playing! lol
The success of WoW is once you get friends and/or family playing, they'll hogtie you to the game, instead. I can be gone from WoW for 90+ days, and then my sis comes needing help again. It's always about help/assistance, as are you going to deny helping friends and/or family?
It's not WoW, it's your own that keeps pulling you back, despite you really don't want to play anymore BECAUSE THEY NERFED YOUR CLASS TO THE GROUND WITH STUPID FILLER MECHANICS, ALL TO CONTROL BURST, WITH A BURST CLASS!!! o.O
Im not saying playing with family and friends is a bad thing- its actually how mmos are supposed to be in first place. But even then, those Bonus things like marriage rings and stuff like taht you get with bonus stats and special effects for pairs- thats all made to keep you playing the game.
Once your in the trademill, they wont let you go off. Thats why so many still play WoW- they are absolutely addicted to it where they have lost control to their whole life. China tried to stop game addiction in the Playstation era, but lifted it now again because free 2 play games werent forbidden and a huge potential market opened where even the goverment invest millions each year into game companys to make profits. Sorry this is totally offtopic.
I think the best thing taht Blizz can do is not making a new MMO. Like they said with Diablo 3: DONT get your hopes up- you will be dissapointed. And they were right with taht.
And what is wrong with playing card games and MOBA? Hearthstone is fun (to me).
To you. You specifically went out of your way to let us know that not everybody likes those watered-down crapfests.
Why then, with WoW showing its age many times over, would Blizzard not at least make an attempt to capture those players of the genre that are jumping ship; to just let them waltz over to their competitors when WoW's engine finally wheezes out? You seem to be completely flabbergasted that some of us don't actually want to switch genres.
Doesn't it bother anybody that we have so many on the forums with the attitude of:
"What? You found a game you enjoy? (WoW) Then we must burn it to the ground! To the freaking ground!!! And the company too! And every game that company makes! To the ground baby!!"
This isn't the WoW forums where they ban any iota of disagreement, especially in how Blizzard took a winning formula that peaked interest to the game to 12mil (WotLK), and threw it all away for CCing and CCing, to the point we have this mechanics crap now...
That's the devs doing that stuff, against how the game is played from the trenches. CC all the time no one wants to wait for 2hrs to finish a dungeon. No one wants to play PvP when WoW is known now as World of Stuncraft!
But complain about it, talk about solutions, provoke brainstorming with ideas from other games....PERMANENT BAN.
So, yeah, it's great to not be on a fanboi forum with people who love their favorites, all to get a better perspective in gaming over all. Can't get that type of feedback on game specific forums, at all. Gone are the days gamers made the games, today it's corporate trying to sell hogwash, instead.
The last "impressive" MMORPG box sale is GW2, which i think sold something like 2-3M copies. While that is not bad, it is pretty pale in comparison to D3's 12M boxes sales
Keep in mind many of Diablo 3's "box" sales came from WoW players who signed up for 1 year of WoW subscription for a free copy of Diablo 3.
That is NOT included in the 12M box sales. Specifically there are 1.2M wow players sign up for the annual pass.
In fact, this shows that a ARPG can tap into much of the wow audience.
Why then, with WoW showing its age many times over, would Blizzard not at least make an attempt to capture those players of the genre that are jumping ship; to just let them waltz over to their competitors when WoW's engine finally wheezes out? You seem to be completely flabbergasted that some of us don't actually want to switch genres.
Who says Blizz has to capture that audience with a new MMORPG? Lots of wow players go to play D3 too, and probably Hearthstone.
What i am flabbergasted is that you don't seem to understand that Blizz has no obligation to stick to MMORPG, and if they can attract the same audience with some other genre, they don't have to stop from trying just because they had a successful MMORPG before.
The last "impressive" MMORPG box sale is GW2, which i think sold something like 2-3M copies. While that is not bad, it is pretty pale in comparison to D3's 12M boxes sales
Keep in mind many of Diablo 3's "box" sales came from WoW players who signed up for 1 year of WoW subscription for a free copy of Diablo 3.
That is NOT included in the 12M box sales. Specifically there are 1.2M wow players sign up for the annual pass.
In fact, this shows that a ARPG can tap into much of the wow audience.
But not take them way. Most of your arguments put these games in conflict with each other over their audiences. But now they happily share audiences. How can you account for overlap.
The last "impressive" MMORPG box sale is GW2, which i think sold something like 2-3M copies. While that is not bad, it is pretty pale in comparison to D3's 12M boxes sales
Keep in mind many of Diablo 3's "box" sales came from WoW players who signed up for 1 year of WoW subscription for a free copy of Diablo 3.
That is NOT included in the 12M box sales. Specifically there are 1.2M wow players sign up for the annual pass.
In fact, this shows that a ARPG can tap into much of the wow audience.
But not take them way. Most of your arguments put these games in conflict with each other over their audiences. But now they happily share audiences. How can you account for overlap?
Who says there is no overlap. In fact, I am saying that overlap is big, and Blizz can capture the same audience with non-MMOs.
Why then, with WoW showing its age many times over, would Blizzard not at least make an attempt to capture those players of the genre that are jumping ship; to just let them waltz over to their competitors when WoW's engine finally wheezes out? You seem to be completely flabbergasted that some of us don't actually want to switch genres.
Who says Blizz has to capture that audience with a new MMORPG? Lots of wow players go to play D3 too, and probably Hearthstone.
What i am flabbergasted is that you don't seem to understand that Blizz has no obligation to stick to MMORPG, and if they can attract the same audience with some other genre, they don't have to stop from trying just because they had a successful MMORPG before.
Because they don't want to lose their WoW audience. They are going to use an MMORPG to retain MMORPG players. Why is that so difficult? Believe it or not, many people who play WoW, are drawn to their MMORPG for reasons you don't play them for. It's a huge gamble to bet the farm on retaining the WoW audience with a non RPG.
Who says Blizz has to capture that audience with a new MMORPG? Lots of wow players go to play D3 too, and probably Hearthstone.
What i am flabbergasted is that you don't seem to understand that Blizz has no obligation to stick to MMORPG, and if they can attract the same audience with some other genre, they don't have to stop from trying just because they had a successful MMORPG before.
The fact of the matter is that you aren't going to attract players looking for rpg elements to games without those no matter how much wishing you try. If the only reason to play an mmorpg was battleground-style combat, they wouldn't exist. Someone would have made something like Smite long ago for much less the development cost and forced a shift.
The same would have happened if starcraft and warfcraft was all about dota-style play. Why construct something considerably more expensive and complex if just that one genre can attract everybody? Simple. There are those that don't want to play those modes.
Blizzard is under no obligation to cater to those who actually like the RPG element in MMORPG, but if they don't, someone else will. That's the point of this thread. Is Titan a worthwhile project to push out after WoW is gone? If it is, they should at least start the design phase now.
Who says Blizz has to capture that audience with a new MMORPG? Lots of wow players go to play D3 too, and probably Hearthstone.
What i am flabbergasted is that you don't seem to understand that Blizz has no obligation to stick to MMORPG, and if they can attract the same audience with some other genre, they don't have to stop from trying just because they had a successful MMORPG before.
The fact of the matter is that you aren't going to attract players looking for rpg elements to games without those no matter how much wishing you try. If the only reason to play an mmorpg was battleground-style combat, they wouldn't exist. Someone would have made something like Smite long ago for much less the development cost and forced a shift.
You don't need a MMORPG to have RPG elements. ARPG will do nicely, or just a CRPG, or even a shooter/RPG hybrid like Borderland.
Because they don't want to lose their WoW audience. They are going to use an MMORPG to retain MMORPG players. Why is that so difficult? Believe it or not, many people who play WoW, are drawn to their MMORPG for reasons you don't play them for. It's a huge gamble to bet the farm on retaining the WoW audience with a non RPG.
And i thought people here are all for innovation and taking risks?
Why is it a "huge gamble to bet the farm" when developing on-MMOs only costs a fraction of a MMO?
The last "impressive" MMORPG box sale is GW2, which i think sold something like 2-3M copies. While that is not bad, it is pretty pale in comparison to D3's 12M boxes sales
Keep in mind many of Diablo 3's "box" sales came from WoW players who signed up for 1 year of WoW subscription for a free copy of Diablo 3.
That is NOT included in the 12M box sales. Specifically there are 1.2M wow players sign up for the annual pass.
In fact, this shows that a ARPG can tap into much of the wow audience.
And how many that didn't that still bought the game (because they didn't want to pay for a 1 year subscription)?
See?
WoW is a built in booster club for all things Blizzard. With millions of people playing (or should I say paying) every month, it's a built in method to sell any game. If Blizzard timed it's released like they did with EQII, any future block bluster MMO they can shutdown by a free offer to WoW players.
It's a HUGE fanbase and one loyal to it's publisher. There's no denying that.
You don't need a MMORPG to have RPG elements. ARPG will do nicely, or just a CRPG, or even a shooter/RPG hybrid like Borderland.
Sure. With zero customization, zero open world/persistent play, zero roleplay elements whatsoever, limited objectives, no long-term goals- I could go on. You seem to be under the impression that mmorpgs won't exist in the next few years so why bother?
At least try and consider what would happen if that doesn't happen before you dismiss it. Try and think about why there are different genres to begin with. Would you be happy only playing shooters? I can list elements to it that draw MOBA players. Should that mean we should close down all MOBAs?
Because they don't want to lose their WoW audience. They are going to use an MMORPG to retain MMORPG players. Why is that so difficult? Believe it or not, many people who play WoW, are drawn to their MMORPG for reasons you don't play them for. It's a huge gamble to bet the farm on retaining the WoW audience with a non RPG.
And i thought people here are all for innovation and taking risks?
Why is it a "huge gamble to bet the farm" when developing on-MMOs only costs a fraction of a MMO?
I'm sure Blizzard is all for taking risks. But not with thier "WoW" audience.
You don't need a MMORPG to have RPG elements. ARPG will do nicely, or just a CRPG, or even a shooter/RPG hybrid like Borderland.
Sure. With zero customization, zero open world/persistent play, zero roleplay elements whatsoever, limited objectives, no long-term goals- I could go on. You seem to be under the impression that mmorpgs won't exist in the next few years so why bother?
At least try and consider what would happen if that doesn't happen before you dismiss it. Try and think about why there are different genres to begin with. Would you be happy only playing shooters? I can list elements to it that draw MOBA players. Should that mean we should close down all MOBAs?
nah .. i am under the impression that some people here would not consider Blizz scrapping Titan a possibility that they may not want to do MMORPG anymore.
Given that all the other games Blizz is working on are not MMORPG, don't you think it is a distinct possibility that Blizz is no longer doing traditional MMORPGs?
Because they don't want to lose their WoW audience. They are going to use an MMORPG to retain MMORPG players. Why is that so difficult? Believe it or not, many people who play WoW, are drawn to their MMORPG for reasons you don't play them for. It's a huge gamble to bet the farm on retaining the WoW audience with a non RPG.
And i thought people here are all for innovation and taking risks?
Why is it a "huge gamble to bet the farm" when developing on-MMOs only costs a fraction of a MMO?
There's a big difference in taking Chuck Yeager out in an X-15 rocket and letting him beat speed records with it, than a buck new pilot who'll literally buy the farm because he's inexperienced.
Innovation comes in spurts (and sometimes luck). Can't predict what will be successful, because gamers are fickle in their tastes.
One of the major problems Blizzard has now is pulling in their forces and setting up skirmish lines against an onslaught of real and imagined enemies. In doing so, they're not as open to advice and suggestions fearing it's some ploy against them. This helps to foster "tunnel vision", the same tunnel vision we have today in trying to curb CCing (a feature so boasted about from TBC and littered in Cata, which turned out to be the worst WoW expansion...AS PLAYERS TOLD BLIZZARD IT WOULD BE).
Innovation is when both the devs and the players work together on common goals. Then brainstorming how to get it done, and keeping that tunnel vision in check.
Innovation is when both the devs and the players work together on common goals. Then brainstorming how to get it done, and keeping that tunnel vision in check.
I don't "work together" with devs. I buy their products if it is fun to me.
Innovation is what devs do, let's not get players into it.
"I have an unwarranted bias against blizzard for "stealing" so much of the mmorpg population and keeping them from populating newer and better games that come out every year. Actually it's not so much blizzards fault as the new games faults for having PvP games with no progression/elo system that causes my guild and everyone I know to duck out after a month or two. "
Blizzard does no such thing.
#1. Blizzard openly admits that VASTLY more players have played WoW they are playing WoW. The percentage of people that play WoW compared to the audience of potential WoW players (as defined by the people who ONCE played WoW) is SMALL - especially in the US. In fact 'phony' vanilla players are a running gag over there. The players know that Blizzard isn't holding onto it's players. It NEVER has - it just attracted new ones.
#2. This means there are lots of potenial candiates for future MMOs - they are just not playing ANY MMOs right now. But there is a big big problem. Most (though not all) former WoW players are 'wise' to Blizzard manipulative and abusive reinforcement schedule (what they call 'progression') and do not want anything to do with it.
People do not want to get on the merry go round and chase carrorts any more. Blizzard isn't capturing MMOs players - they are burning them out and turning them off the genre.
#3. This is why future MMOs are trying to be fun - not fun like a 'slot machine' but fun like a game of ratchet and clank. Talk about how GW2 doesn't have a progression. Many players see this as a GOOD thing. The lack of progression or "horizontal' progression as they call it means you can step into the MMO anytime you like and do any of the content you like. You might not be successful - but if you want to come back and try the triple headed Wurm you can..
This is the whole push for action MMOs - you want just enough 'progression' to make it like an RPG - but not so much it feels you have to ALWAYS be getting loot to unlock any of the new content. Even Blizzard felt alot of pushback with this - hence the boxes on the island with EPICS in them.
People here will complain about Blizzard 'flattening' their progression. But they have no choice. People are wise to games that are overly reliant on skinner box reinforcement schedules.. You want games so good that you play them for the hell of it. And yes that really does work to some extent. You get absolute shit loot off the triple headed wurm in GW2 but people wanted to do it for the thrill of victory anyway.
Game makers are trying to make their games more fun then WoW - and I think we will see some success on this front in the upcoming years. Heck I am glad to be playing other games then Wow because of the add on situation alone. Third party add ons give such a huge advantage to any raider that they are necessary for anything beyond LFR.
Comments
You miss the biggest question of them all ...
"Should we even be doing a MMORPG, or should we focus on other game types?"
New MMORPG titles still bring in impressive box sales. It's retention that is difficult. Players still want a good MMO,
The question is really....
"Can we really create a game that can succeed WoW?" They probably don't want to release the new game and not have it do at least as well as WoW is doing.
Well, WoW's "psychologists" kicked me out of their clinic (/flex), so it's not addiction to the game that keeps me playing! lol
The success of WoW is once you get friends and/or family playing, they'll hogtie you to the game, instead. I can be gone from WoW for 90+ days, and then my sis comes needing help again. It's always about help/assistance, as are you going to deny helping friends and/or family?
It's not WoW, it's your own that keeps pulling you back, despite you really don't want to play anymore BECAUSE THEY NERFED YOUR CLASS TO THE GROUND WITH STUPID FILLER MECHANICS, ALL TO CONTROL BURST, WITH A BURST CLASS!!! o.O
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
The last "impressive" MMORPG box sale is GW2, which i think sold something like 2-3M copies. While that is not bad, it is pretty pale in comparison to D3's 12M boxes sales, or SC2's 6M copies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#PC).
And as you say, retention is difficult, particularly with a sub (EQN is F2P, BTW). There are plenty of other types of games with much better box sales than MMOs, so i don't see a compelling reason, if i were Blizz, that Blizz has to make another MMORPG.
Doesn't it bother anybody that we have so many on the forums with the attitude of:
"What? You found a game you enjoy? (WoW) Then we must burn it to the ground! To the freaking ground!!! And the company too! And every game that company makes! To the ground baby!!"
Keep in mind many of Diablo 3's "box" sales came from WoW players who signed up for 1 year of WoW subscription for a free copy of Diablo 3.
That is how Blizzard kept people playing WoW and boost D3 sales in one pass (and probably how Titan will be offered, to keep people playing WoW with a new MMO).
Like I said, Blizzard has a built in fanboi section that will buy their games to the tune of millions, internally. The rest are outside sales, which Blizzard has a presence for over 10 years.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Im not saying playing with family and friends is a bad thing- its actually how mmos are supposed to be in first place. But even then, those Bonus things like marriage rings and stuff like taht you get with bonus stats and special effects for pairs- thats all made to keep you playing the game.
Once your in the trademill, they wont let you go off. Thats why so many still play WoW- they are absolutely addicted to it where they have lost control to their whole life. China tried to stop game addiction in the Playstation era, but lifted it now again because free 2 play games werent forbidden and a huge potential market opened where even the goverment invest millions each year into game companys to make profits. Sorry this is totally offtopic.
I think the best thing taht Blizz can do is not making a new MMO. Like they said with Diablo 3: DONT get your hopes up- you will be dissapointed. And they were right with taht.
To you. You specifically went out of your way to let us know that not everybody likes those watered-down crapfests.
Why then, with WoW showing its age many times over, would Blizzard not at least make an attempt to capture those players of the genre that are jumping ship; to just let them waltz over to their competitors when WoW's engine finally wheezes out? You seem to be completely flabbergasted that some of us don't actually want to switch genres.
This isn't the WoW forums where they ban any iota of disagreement, especially in how Blizzard took a winning formula that peaked interest to the game to 12mil (WotLK), and threw it all away for CCing and CCing, to the point we have this mechanics crap now...
http://wow.joystiq.com/2014/01/26/what-ability-would-you-rather-not-say-goodbye-to/
http://wow.joystiq.com/2014/02/03/blood-pact-do-warlocks-have-button-bloat/
That's the devs doing that stuff, against how the game is played from the trenches. CC all the time no one wants to wait for 2hrs to finish a dungeon. No one wants to play PvP when WoW is known now as World of Stuncraft!
But complain about it, talk about solutions, provoke brainstorming with ideas from other games....PERMANENT BAN.
So, yeah, it's great to not be on a fanboi forum with people who love their favorites, all to get a better perspective in gaming over all. Can't get that type of feedback on game specific forums, at all. Gone are the days gamers made the games, today it's corporate trying to sell hogwash, instead.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
That is NOT included in the 12M box sales. Specifically there are 1.2M wow players sign up for the annual pass.
In fact, this shows that a ARPG can tap into much of the wow audience.
Who says Blizz has to capture that audience with a new MMORPG? Lots of wow players go to play D3 too, and probably Hearthstone.
What i am flabbergasted is that you don't seem to understand that Blizz has no obligation to stick to MMORPG, and if they can attract the same audience with some other genre, they don't have to stop from trying just because they had a successful MMORPG before.
But not take them way. Most of your arguments put these games in conflict with each other over their audiences. But now they happily share audiences. How can you account for overlap.
Who says there is no overlap. In fact, I am saying that overlap is big, and Blizz can capture the same audience with non-MMOs.
Because they don't want to lose their WoW audience. They are going to use an MMORPG to retain MMORPG players. Why is that so difficult? Believe it or not, many people who play WoW, are drawn to their MMORPG for reasons you don't play them for. It's a huge gamble to bet the farm on retaining the WoW audience with a non RPG.
Playing: Secret World: Legends
Waiting for: Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
The fact of the matter is that you aren't going to attract players looking for rpg elements to games without those no matter how much wishing you try. If the only reason to play an mmorpg was battleground-style combat, they wouldn't exist. Someone would have made something like Smite long ago for much less the development cost and forced a shift.
The same would have happened if starcraft and warfcraft was all about dota-style play. Why construct something considerably more expensive and complex if just that one genre can attract everybody? Simple. There are those that don't want to play those modes.
Blizzard is under no obligation to cater to those who actually like the RPG element in MMORPG, but if they don't, someone else will. That's the point of this thread. Is Titan a worthwhile project to push out after WoW is gone? If it is, they should at least start the design phase now.
You don't need a MMORPG to have RPG elements. ARPG will do nicely, or just a CRPG, or even a shooter/RPG hybrid like Borderland.
And i thought people here are all for innovation and taking risks?
Why is it a "huge gamble to bet the farm" when developing on-MMOs only costs a fraction of a MMO?
And how many that didn't that still bought the game (because they didn't want to pay for a 1 year subscription)?
See?
WoW is a built in booster club for all things Blizzard. With millions of people playing (or should I say paying) every month, it's a built in method to sell any game. If Blizzard timed it's released like they did with EQII, any future block bluster MMO they can shutdown by a free offer to WoW players.
It's a HUGE fanbase and one loyal to it's publisher. There's no denying that.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Sure. With zero customization, zero open world/persistent play, zero roleplay elements whatsoever, limited objectives, no long-term goals- I could go on. You seem to be under the impression that mmorpgs won't exist in the next few years so why bother?
At least try and consider what would happen if that doesn't happen before you dismiss it. Try and think about why there are different genres to begin with. Would you be happy only playing shooters? I can list elements to it that draw MOBA players. Should that mean we should close down all MOBAs?
I'm sure Blizzard is all for taking risks. But not with thier "WoW" audience.
nah .. i am under the impression that some people here would not consider Blizz scrapping Titan a possibility that they may not want to do MMORPG anymore.
Given that all the other games Blizz is working on are not MMORPG, don't you think it is a distinct possibility that Blizz is no longer doing traditional MMORPGs?
There's a big difference in taking Chuck Yeager out in an X-15 rocket and letting him beat speed records with it, than a buck new pilot who'll literally buy the farm because he's inexperienced.
Innovation comes in spurts (and sometimes luck). Can't predict what will be successful, because gamers are fickle in their tastes.
One of the major problems Blizzard has now is pulling in their forces and setting up skirmish lines against an onslaught of real and imagined enemies. In doing so, they're not as open to advice and suggestions fearing it's some ploy against them. This helps to foster "tunnel vision", the same tunnel vision we have today in trying to curb CCing (a feature so boasted about from TBC and littered in Cata, which turned out to be the worst WoW expansion...AS PLAYERS TOLD BLIZZARD IT WOULD BE).
Innovation is when both the devs and the players work together on common goals. Then brainstorming how to get it done, and keeping that tunnel vision in check.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I don't "work together" with devs. I buy their products if it is fun to me.
Innovation is what devs do, let's not get players into it.
"I have an unwarranted bias against blizzard for "stealing" so much of the mmorpg population and keeping them from populating newer and better games that come out every year. Actually it's not so much blizzards fault as the new games faults for having PvP games with no progression/elo system that causes my guild and everyone I know to duck out after a month or two.
"
Blizzard does no such thing.
#1. Blizzard openly admits that VASTLY more players have played WoW they are playing WoW. The percentage of people that play WoW compared to the audience of potential WoW players (as defined by the people who ONCE played WoW) is SMALL - especially in the US. In fact 'phony' vanilla players are a running gag over there. The players know that Blizzard isn't holding onto it's players. It NEVER has - it just attracted new ones.
#2. This means there are lots of potenial candiates for future MMOs - they are just not playing ANY MMOs right now. But there is a big big problem. Most (though not all) former WoW players are 'wise' to Blizzard manipulative and abusive reinforcement schedule (what they call 'progression') and do not want anything to do with it.
People do not want to get on the merry go round and chase carrorts any more. Blizzard isn't capturing MMOs players - they are burning them out and turning them off the genre.
#3. This is why future MMOs are trying to be fun - not fun like a 'slot machine' but fun like a game of ratchet and clank. Talk about how GW2 doesn't have a progression. Many players see this as a GOOD thing. The lack of progression or "horizontal' progression as they call it means you can step into the MMO anytime you like and do any of the content you like. You might not be successful - but if you want to come back and try the triple headed Wurm you can..
This is the whole push for action MMOs - you want just enough 'progression' to make it like an RPG - but not so much it feels you have to ALWAYS be getting loot to unlock any of the new content. Even Blizzard felt alot of pushback with this - hence the boxes on the island with EPICS in them.
People here will complain about Blizzard 'flattening' their progression. But they have no choice. People are wise to games that are overly reliant on skinner box reinforcement schedules.. You want games so good that you play them for the hell of it. And yes that really does work to some extent. You get absolute shit loot off the triple headed wurm in GW2 but people wanted to do it for the thrill of victory anyway.
Game makers are trying to make their games more fun then WoW - and I think we will see some success on this front in the upcoming years. Heck I am glad to be playing other games then Wow because of the add on situation alone. Third party add ons give such a huge advantage to any raider that they are necessary for anything beyond LFR.