No, because Landmark is basically their map/campaign editor. If you've already put in for Landmark you HAVE bought into a piece of EQN. Maybe SOE doesn't see that but it seems extremely greedy for people who bought into to Landmark to not get grandfathered into an EQN founders pack. I think it's only fair since those people paid a lot of money for basically a map/campaign editor. Landmark buy in should equal Next founders pack free pass.
not for a free to play game. I really want to play it but i am not that desperate. If there was a box price i could be persuaded into buying it early, but theres no box price so ill wait for the free launch and then support the game (IF the cash shop is decent)
Originally posted by Pyatra No, because Landmark is basically their map/campaign editor. If you've already put in for Landmark you HAVE bought into a piece of EQN. Maybe SOE doesn't see that but it seems extremely greedy for people who bought into to Landmark to not get grandfathered into an EQN founders pack. I think it's only fair since those people paid a lot of money for basically a map/campaign editor. Landmark buy in should equal Next founders pack free pass.
I don't know why I want to educate people who can't be bothered to do it themselves, but here goes:
Landmark will be a full game, complete with PvE and group content. It will be largely driven by the players, but it's not just "map editor". Furthermore, currently, all you do in the game is craft/build, and that's because it's in a barebones alpha state for testing the building tools and systems.
I do happen to agree with you that Landmark folks should at least get into beta of EQN, but I won't be surprised if that doesn't happen.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
May go ahead and get the alpha today. I was impressed with their NDA lifting so soon, and that shows confidence in their product. That goes a long way to change my mind to buy it, when at first I wasn't interested because F2P.
Don't think I've seen a more bizarre reason to purchase something. Maybe you meant to say, "The game looked like fun, so I might be buying into Alpha even though it's F2P."
But being impressed with their NDA status as the reason to buy something . . . kinda weird no?
I don't think that's weird. Look at ESO, it's coming into another beta weekend event, nearing the launch date and the NDA is still in full effect. That tells me that ZO is trying to hide whatever bad publicity they know their game is going to receive. The fact that SOE has lifted the NDA in an Alpha version of their game shows how committed they are to being as transparent as they can be during their development process. It also shows that they have full confidence in their own product, and are willing to take both positive and negative comments.
Partial NDA is being lifted this weekend and it's been announced that there will be no Marks on your screen this weekend meaning that even if you leak it, you aren't getting caught no matter how much the NDA is lifted. You will be seeing lots of ESO videos after this weekend test.
And SOE lifted the NDA because they are selling the Alphas and Betas. Most of the games (DayZ, Rust, Assetto Corsa, Entropy, Starpoint Gemini and the list goes on and on) which sell early access lift the NDAs. SOE isn't doing anything special in that. ESO isn't selling you Alphas/Betas.
Pre-orders are different as you can cancel them anytime, even after the NDA gets lifted. ESO might have some faults but not lifting the NDA isn't one of them. Even FFXIV last year started pre-orders without lifting the NDA until 20 days later.
Gotta love them paranoid armchair detectives on the forums....
I consider myself an asset as an alpha(which they USED to call beta before beta became what they used to call stress testing) who actually does real testing. I am not going to pay for the privilege of said. They can pick me or not.
It seems REALLY DUMB to me to charge for people testing your game. All you will get that way is voyeurs. You want skilled testers: people who will actually try to break things and report on how things can be broken.
If you aren't making bug reports frequently then you aren't doing your job as a tester or it is one heck of a polished game (this is assuming you are in the game early enough to make a difference).
I consider myself an asset as an alpha(which they USED to call beta before beta became what they used to call stress testing) who actually does real testing. I am not going to pay for the privilege of said. They can pick me or not.
It seems REALLY DUMB to me to charge for people testing your game. All you will get that way is voyeurs. You want skilled testers: people who will actually try to break things and report on how things can be broken.
If you aren't making bug reports frequently then you aren't doing your job as a tester or it is one heck of a polished game (this is assuming you are in the game early enough to make a difference).
You can't get skilled testers because Alpha/Beta testers are selected randomly if not by giving Early access.
And secondly, they aren't asking you to pay to test the game. They are offering a premium to those who are excited enough for the game to skip the random selection process and get in directly. There is nothing new in this. Either depend on your luck to get selected from a pool of hundreds of thousands or pay a premium to get ahead of everyone else and get in the Alpha. You can either battle it out with the competition or pay a premium to get in.
I consider myself an asset as an alpha(which they USED to call beta before beta became what they used to call stress testing) who actually does real testing. I am not going to pay for the privilege of said. They can pick me or not.
It seems REALLY DUMB to me to charge for people testing your game. All you will get that way is voyeurs. You want skilled testers: people who will actually try to break things and report on how things can be broken.
If you aren't making bug reports frequently then you aren't doing your job as a tester or it is one heck of a polished game (this is assuming you are in the game early enough to make a difference).
What your post suggests to me is that you're a serial alpha/beta tester who applies to join every new game going in the testing phase, whilst convincing yourself that your the worlds gift to gaming developers.
If you'd have done the most basic research into EQNL, you'd have realised you're just the sort of person they don't want in their alpha phase. You've used the word "Testing" or "Tester" five times in your short post whereas that's not what the EQNL alpha phase is about at all. Testing in the sense you mention will come later in the beta stages. For now, they only want people who are genuinely passionate about the game to play the game as far as it's been developed so far and to give their opinions and suggestions of how the game should evolve. Of course we can report bugs but that's not the main focus at all. I don't even know how to report a bug come to think of it.
Everyone in the EQNL alpha phase has paid $60-$100 dollars to do so. There are no free wheelers at all. Only people with a genuine interest in the success of the game are welcome at this stage of development.
I am sure it will be a pretty good game but i am not supporting any lame tactics by developers.They want you to pay a founders,then a sub fee then cash shop lol,no way in hell would i support that.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I am sure it will be a pretty good game but i am not supporting any lame tactics by developers.They want you to pay a founders,then a sub fee then cash shop lol,no way in hell would i support that.
There actually isn't a sub fee. And once the game is released, there is also no box fee. It's going to be a F2P game with a cash shop. Some people have said it might work something like PS2 where you can grind for stuff or you can pay to get things faster.
6 months ago I would have said no. But out of sheer boredom I did so for Landmark. The way these guys are running things and communicating. And the way this world feels. I'm in. They are doing a fantastic job and it makes me a believer again to see just how passionate and committed they are.
Yes to Alpha. EQ apart from UO was the first MMO that really open peoples imagination and spent many a years enjoying playing my Magician from 1999. Everquest Next will feel like coming home for some silly reason. Looking forward to it immensely.
May go ahead and get the alpha today. I was impressed with their NDA lifting so soon, and that shows confidence in their product. That goes a long way to change my mind to buy it, when at first I wasn't interested because F2P.
Don't think I've seen a more bizarre reason to purchase something. Maybe you meant to say, "The game looked like fun, so I might be buying into Alpha even though it's F2P."
But being impressed with their NDA status as the reason to buy something . . . kinda weird no?
I don't think that's weird. Look at ESO, it's coming into another beta weekend event, nearing the launch date and the NDA is still in full effect. That tells me that ZO is trying to hide whatever bad publicity they know their game is going to receive. The fact that SOE has lifted the NDA in an Alpha version of their game shows how committed they are to being as transparent as they can be during their development process. It also shows that they have full confidence in their own product, and are willing to take both positive and negative comments.
Partial NDA is being lifted this weekend and it's been announced that there will be no Marks on your screen this weekend meaning that even if you leak it, you aren't getting caught no matter how much the NDA is lifted. You will be seeing lots of ESO videos after this weekend test.
And SOE lifted the NDA because they are selling the Alphas and Betas. Most of the games (DayZ, Rust, Assetto Corsa, Entropy, Starpoint Gemini and the list goes on and on) which sell early access lift the NDAs. SOE isn't doing anything special in that. ESO isn't selling you Alphas/Betas.
Pre-orders are different as you can cancel them anytime, even after the NDA gets lifted. ESO might have some faults but not lifting the NDA isn't one of them. Even FFXIV last year started pre-orders without lifting the NDA until 20 days later.
Gotta love them paranoid armchair detectives on the forums....
Instead of being a "paranoid armchair detective", perhaps I am a cautious purchaser considering the vast amount of crap that we have gone through as gamers.
Unless you've been living under a rock, you'd see how that NOT lifting a NDA so close to a potential launch has proven to be a good indicator that the game isn't up to snuff.
No, ESO isn't selling beta or alpha access. They are selling the ability to play any race on any faction. They are selling an entire race, Imperials, which are only available after an additional $20 purchase on top of the $60 price tag. That's also on top of a subscription fee. Smells of a massive cash grab by a company who knows their game is crap and is going to get decimated by the general fan base.
I'm pretty sure SOE will do something similar like they did with Landmark and have 3 different packs. I wouldn't mind a boxed collector's edition, but who knows at this point. I would probably buy it.
Sony Online Entertainment isn't giving enough indication as far as what feedback they are taking into consideration and what feedback they are ignoring. They have good enough communication through their updates forum page, but compared to other projects out there like Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar, it feels like they are ignoring founders 90% of the time and only addressing things inconsequential to their original design goals.
So yeah, we are helping shape the game alright. We're all doing bug testing for them that we paid either $60 usd or $100 usd for the privilege. At least in the kick starters they are acknowledging feedback from the damn backers.
despite the Smed warts, I'm a SOE fan so i voted yes
but I hope SOE offers the same money back guarantee that Landmark alpha has
not satisfied with alpha? SOE refunds your money for Landmark alpha
how many mmos do that?
Refunding is not a solution to a lack of communication. It's throwing in the towel because they are admitting they lacked the infrastructure to handle the kind of task they were setting out to do. It's like the stop light camera that snaps a photo of someone doing a right turn on red and mails them a ticket, which they have to go and fight because otherwise they are getting fined for doing something perfectly legal.
It's the responsibility of the company to work out issues, not the guy buying into the game. Remember, they promised that the alpha early access provides the ability to influence the direction of the finished product, which entails going through feedback, communicating to the community at large, and explaining in detail why they are doing what they are doing. So far they seem to be inclined to be the CEO that takes a list of research questions and crosses out all the questions most pertinent to the decisions involved in the game and says "if your research doesn't agree with my direction, to hell with it."
If that is the case, why are we even here playing an unfinished game?
Refunding is not a solution to a lack of communication. It's throwing in the towel because they are admitting they lacked the infrastructure to handle the kind of task they were setting out to do. It's like the stop light camera that snaps a photo of someone doing a right turn on red and mails them a ticket, which they have to go and fight because otherwise they are getting fined for doing something perfectly legal.
It's the responsibility of the company to work out issues, not the guy buying into the game. Remember, they promised that the alpha early access provides the ability to influence the direction of the finished product, which entails going through feedback, communicating to the community at large, and explaining in detail why they are doing what they are doing. So far they seem to be inclined to be the CEO that takes a list of research questions and crosses out all the questions most pertinent to the decisions involved in the game and says "if your research doesn't agree with my direction, to hell with it."
If that is the case, why are we even here playing an unfinished game?
Refunds are not a solution to larger issues, but it is nice to see a company giving early adopters an out if they aren't happy for any reason.
Not sure what you would like to see, but I doubt they are going to go "Gamer 142 said he wanted X so we put it in." That isn't how it works. Players complained about wood and they are addressing it. Players complained about claims, they are working on it. They are improving the tools and resource/gathering.
The patches/updates seem to be direct results of what players have talked about (positive or negative). For the most part, the overall wishes of the players seemed to be impacting development. Maybe not exactly what every single player wants, but that isn't how it works.
They have to look at the overall game and experience for everyone. Hopefully as more systems are introduced and ironed out (combat, AI, death, Player Studio, etc) things will grow further and players will continue to influence the games future. There is a long ways to go, but I think those of us that have bought in are having some impact. Do I feel like a dev as they go on about, no, but I also don't feel like players as a whole are being ignored.
They are still working on transparency as well. They've at least given a road map of where development is going, hopefully they break it down a bit and actually say what players have contributed to.
Comments
GW1 did fine for balancing no-trinity system for PVE
EQ2 fan sites
I don't know why I want to educate people who can't be bothered to do it themselves, but here goes:
Landmark will be a full game, complete with PvE and group content. It will be largely driven by the players, but it's not just "map editor". Furthermore, currently, all you do in the game is craft/build, and that's because it's in a barebones alpha state for testing the building tools and systems.
I do happen to agree with you that Landmark folks should at least get into beta of EQN, but I won't be surprised if that doesn't happen.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Partial NDA is being lifted this weekend and it's been announced that there will be no Marks on your screen this weekend meaning that even if you leak it, you aren't getting caught no matter how much the NDA is lifted. You will be seeing lots of ESO videos after this weekend test.
And SOE lifted the NDA because they are selling the Alphas and Betas. Most of the games (DayZ, Rust, Assetto Corsa, Entropy, Starpoint Gemini and the list goes on and on) which sell early access lift the NDAs. SOE isn't doing anything special in that. ESO isn't selling you Alphas/Betas.
Pre-orders are different as you can cancel them anytime, even after the NDA gets lifted. ESO might have some faults but not lifting the NDA isn't one of them. Even FFXIV last year started pre-orders without lifting the NDA until 20 days later.
Gotta love them paranoid armchair detectives on the forums....
I consider myself an asset as an alpha(which they USED to call beta before beta became what they used to call stress testing) who actually does real testing. I am not going to pay for the privilege of said. They can pick me or not.
It seems REALLY DUMB to me to charge for people testing your game. All you will get that way is voyeurs. You want skilled testers: people who will actually try to break things and report on how things can be broken.
If you aren't making bug reports frequently then you aren't doing your job as a tester or it is one heck of a polished game (this is assuming you are in the game early enough to make a difference).
You can't get skilled testers because Alpha/Beta testers are selected randomly if not by giving Early access.
And secondly, they aren't asking you to pay to test the game. They are offering a premium to those who are excited enough for the game to skip the random selection process and get in directly. There is nothing new in this. Either depend on your luck to get selected from a pool of hundreds of thousands or pay a premium to get ahead of everyone else and get in the Alpha. You can either battle it out with the competition or pay a premium to get in.
What your post suggests to me is that you're a serial alpha/beta tester who applies to join every new game going in the testing phase, whilst convincing yourself that your the worlds gift to gaming developers.
If you'd have done the most basic research into EQNL, you'd have realised you're just the sort of person they don't want in their alpha phase. You've used the word "Testing" or "Tester" five times in your short post whereas that's not what the EQNL alpha phase is about at all. Testing in the sense you mention will come later in the beta stages. For now, they only want people who are genuinely passionate about the game to play the game as far as it's been developed so far and to give their opinions and suggestions of how the game should evolve. Of course we can report bugs but that's not the main focus at all. I don't even know how to report a bug come to think of it.
Everyone in the EQNL alpha phase has paid $60-$100 dollars to do so. There are no free wheelers at all. Only people with a genuine interest in the success of the game are welcome at this stage of development.
A big NO.
I am sure it will be a pretty good game but i am not supporting any lame tactics by developers.They want you to pay a founders,then a sub fee then cash shop lol,no way in hell would i support that.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
yup, I will buy it
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
There actually isn't a sub fee. And once the game is released, there is also no box fee. It's going to be a F2P game with a cash shop. Some people have said it might work something like PS2 where you can grind for stuff or you can pay to get things faster.
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Instead of being a "paranoid armchair detective", perhaps I am a cautious purchaser considering the vast amount of crap that we have gone through as gamers.
Unless you've been living under a rock, you'd see how that NOT lifting a NDA so close to a potential launch has proven to be a good indicator that the game isn't up to snuff.
No, ESO isn't selling beta or alpha access. They are selling the ability to play any race on any faction. They are selling an entire race, Imperials, which are only available after an additional $20 purchase on top of the $60 price tag. That's also on top of a subscription fee. Smells of a massive cash grab by a company who knows their game is crap and is going to get decimated by the general fan base.
Sony Online Entertainment isn't giving enough indication as far as what feedback they are taking into consideration and what feedback they are ignoring. They have good enough communication through their updates forum page, but compared to other projects out there like Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar, it feels like they are ignoring founders 90% of the time and only addressing things inconsequential to their original design goals.
So yeah, we are helping shape the game alright. We're all doing bug testing for them that we paid either $60 usd or $100 usd for the privilege. At least in the kick starters they are acknowledging feedback from the damn backers.
despite the Smed warts, I'm a SOE fan so i voted yes
but I hope SOE offers the same money back guarantee that Landmark alpha has
not satisfied with alpha? SOE refunds your money for Landmark alpha
how many mmos do that?
EQ2 fan sites
Refunding is not a solution to a lack of communication. It's throwing in the towel because they are admitting they lacked the infrastructure to handle the kind of task they were setting out to do. It's like the stop light camera that snaps a photo of someone doing a right turn on red and mails them a ticket, which they have to go and fight because otherwise they are getting fined for doing something perfectly legal.
It's the responsibility of the company to work out issues, not the guy buying into the game. Remember, they promised that the alpha early access provides the ability to influence the direction of the finished product, which entails going through feedback, communicating to the community at large, and explaining in detail why they are doing what they are doing. So far they seem to be inclined to be the CEO that takes a list of research questions and crosses out all the questions most pertinent to the decisions involved in the game and says "if your research doesn't agree with my direction, to hell with it."
If that is the case, why are we even here playing an unfinished game?
Refunds are not a solution to larger issues, but it is nice to see a company giving early adopters an out if they aren't happy for any reason.
Not sure what you would like to see, but I doubt they are going to go "Gamer 142 said he wanted X so we put it in." That isn't how it works. Players complained about wood and they are addressing it. Players complained about claims, they are working on it. They are improving the tools and resource/gathering.
The patches/updates seem to be direct results of what players have talked about (positive or negative). For the most part, the overall wishes of the players seemed to be impacting development. Maybe not exactly what every single player wants, but that isn't how it works.
They have to look at the overall game and experience for everyone. Hopefully as more systems are introduced and ironed out (combat, AI, death, Player Studio, etc) things will grow further and players will continue to influence the games future. There is a long ways to go, but I think those of us that have bought in are having some impact. Do I feel like a dev as they go on about, no, but I also don't feel like players as a whole are being ignored.
They are still working on transparency as well. They've at least given a road map of where development is going, hopefully they break it down a bit and actually say what players have contributed to.
I bought into the EQNL alpha and I have to say it is super fun! Best pre order I have done in over a year and its alpha lol.
I am excited to see more in regards to EQN!
That's why i didn't buy landmark, EQN is going have more value.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Your GD right I will..the biggest most expensive one available
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
YES, I would buy beta
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!