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Time for a new desktop/laptop... I'm lost...
I'll be honest, I stopped paying attention awhile ago to numbers. When I look for a new computer/laptop the first thing I tend to look at is FPS of the newest games. (i.e. right now looking at Tomb Raider numbers) For example, reading one site their FPS numbers for Tomb Raider on Ultra settings were (GT 665M 31, 670M 41, 680M 65): http://www.notebookcheck.net/In-Review-Nvidia-GeForce-GTX-780M-GTX-770M-GTX-765M.93277.0.html
I haven't upgrade in a long while. My Desktop (last time I upgraded it) hasn't been right since but I haven't had the time to fix it correctly, nor does it happen enough (random lockup, can't tell why) that it's worth me looking at. I'm also using a TV for a monitor right now so that reduces some of the performance (I believe) as well.
Back in the day, I would sit down plan out a computer and decide what to buy. Now I'm lucky if I have a couple of hours free and just want to game. I travel about 30% of the time so I'm thinking a laptop would be best. That said, the spouse has decreed that I can't upgrade again for at LEAST 3 years. :-) She'll let me spend up to $2000 but I'd prefer to spend less than $1500.
I was looking at:
A couple of years ago I had a ROG laptop and I loved it. While it did get hot, it didn't kill my hands. I don't mind the fans but I tend to play with a cooler underneath my lap anyways. My current laptop burns if I just turn a game on. It isn't bad, it just burns the crap out of me.. especially when I use WASD.
My current setup is:
Desktop: Windows 7 64-bit, AMD A-8 3800 2.4Ghz, 8Gb RAM, GeForce GTX 560 Ti
Laptop: Windows 7 64-bit, Intel i7-3610QM 2.3Ghz, 8Gb RAM, GeForce GT 650M
I have $1500 in cash, I have 2-3K if use BB Credit and I also get 18 months financing for those. Not sure what'd be best in this instance.
Games I have in mind to play: Star Citizen, EQ Next/Landmark, whatever's in my steam library :-)
I lay it before you everyone .. (mostly Quizzical)
Comments
Hey there!
Upgrading is always fun, and can be an interesting experience.
So to start first, right now. Your laptop is my laptop. I have pretty much identical specs, just slightly lower.
If I had my arm twisted or I accidentally volley ball spiked by laptop into the ground I would be getting the ASUS ROG G750JH
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-rog-17-3-laptop-24gb-memory-1tb-hard-drive-dual-128gb-solid-state-drives-black/9560034.p?id=1219021951607
That is slightly out of your price range, but right now it's about 250 dollars off it's regular price and you can better believe that it will last three years (short of you trying to dribble it). I would probably hang on my hat on saying that it is probably the most powerful respected brand laptop you can buy.
The price with the laptop is mobility. You current laptop is pretty snazzy. You don't 'need' to really upgrade it, it will run most steam games no problem and once the next line of games are optimized (SC and EQN) you'll be ready to kick ass.
With that being said and with your $1500-$2000 to play with. My suggestion is to go build yourself a bitch ass awesome computer from straight parts. You can take the basic parts from your own computer such as hard drive, DVD tray and possibly power supply depending how beefy it is and you can build yourself a truly awesome machine. If you don't know how to do that or aren't comfortable with it I definitely reccomend you poking your head into tigerdirect or something similar in your area. Your value from building it from parts will be much higher than getting a premade one at bestbuy.
But just generalizing prices I can imagine you'd be able to score an I7 4k series processor along with 16gb RAM (or 32gb) a decent video card and motherboard. Possibly a SSD drive as well.
It just depends what you want your primary game station to be. Getting the laptop would effectively put your main game station as being the laptop, 100% of the time no matter where you are. Whereas you would get more 'power' for your dollar in building a desktop with the money that you have to play with.
Is there some reason you think your current laptop won't play the games you have in mind to play?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I was looking at that ROG one, as a matter of fact, couple things that I'm not sold on.
I don't know that the difference between the 770M and the 780M over the long term would be that great. Some of the difference will be made up for in newer drivers. Some of it won't ever be.
The middle Asus ($1900) laptop includes a couple of features that future-ize my laptop. AC networking for example. The higher one lists the a/b/n card whereas the middle version specifically lists AC (I do have an AC router currently).
I agree the my current laptop would do just find for most things. The BIGGEST problem with it is it's inability to handle heat. If I had a thermal of it, I'd give you a better idea but the thing gets hot enough to leave red marks on my wrist and fingers if I keep my hands on the left side (where the graphics chips are). The fan is blowing and dust free, but it's just way to hot. The OLD ROG I had, had these (for lack of a better term) super fans on the back. Back then though, there was an issue with the thermal paste. I fixed myself. For this new one, it really does just heat up. The fans it was designed with aren't capable of cooling this chipset down (it was one of the first of the new processor and new GPU sets so I can understand that as I was an early adopter). If I try to play any game for longer than a couple of hours, it heats for too long. I'm almost positive I'll break it if it keeps up. (and I have had it shut down a couple of times mid game because it was on greater than a couple of hours... the heat numbers were just too high) I could easily give this fully working laptop to my wife and use this new one.
I'm not sold on a desktop anymore because it keeps me in one place in my house. If I want to watch TV, or be in another room, or go to travel, then I can't use it (which is why I'm more heavily looking at a laptop). In looking, though, I noticed that desktop specs are comparable to laptop specs which isn't how I remember it. Granted, that's not doing a dual-card setup (which used to be easier in desktops and non-existent on laptops). Also, I'm not sure I want to build my own again.
For that matter, one of the laptops I was looking at for $2100 had dual 780Ms in it. That's cheaper than the recommend ROG but at what cost? I'm not sure.
If the laptop is starting to power off mid play and you're having heat issues with it, then I would definitely recommend replacing it. When my computer and laptop started doing that, it was only a few weeks/months before it bricked itself. Mostly because I disregarded it and kept pushing it until it died.
The $1900 model is great as well, and I'm sure that the difference between the video card models can be measured within signal digit percentage points, if that much at all. I will admit I'm highly biased forwards ASUS stuff. I've had nothing but good experiences with their equipment, customer service and everything. I would say go for whichever ROG laptop that you feel hits your requirements the best.
When comparing framerates, detail settings and resolution matter a lot.
My laptop's A8-4500M can play SWTOR on low-med settings at 1280x960 and get 60FPS. My desktop with a modern CPU/GPU might not get above 45FPS, but it can display all of the graphics at the highest settings.
Everyone's tolerance for detail settings and resolution will be different. Determine your goals and budget, first. Then, decide if it really has to be a laptop or if you just need a desktop you can move around every month or so.
First and most importantly, don't go with 18 month Best Buy financing. They charge interest rates of over 25%, which is much higher than you'd pay with an ordinary credit card. It's fine to finance a house over the course of a long period of time, but not a computer.
If the problem with your current laptop is that the keyboard gets too hot, then you might want to see if you've got a dust problem or are blocking vents or something. If those aren't the issues, then you could get an external USB keyboard and plug it in when you want to play games.
The fundamental problem with gaming laptops is that they have to pack too much heat into too little space. Temperatures that are acceptable for silicon aren't necessarily okay for human skin. The higher end you go in performance, the more heat you're putting out and the bigger this problem becomes.
Meanwhile, you rather botched your desktop configuration if you're looking to play games on it. There are trade-offs between power and performance (more performance means more power consumption and hence more heat output), and you went for a low power CPU in a desktop where the form factor lets you put out a lot of heat. And then you paired it with an inefficient, high-powered video card so you don't see the benefits of low heat output, but are still stuck with the low CPU performance. Your CPU would have been fairly nice in 2007, but it's really time to replace it.
I'd recommend replacing the desktop and keeping your laptop a while longer. If you want to sit and play games in a hotel room, get a wired keyboard and mouse, take them with you, and plug them in when you want to play games. I'd also have something to set the laptop on top of, to make sure that you're not blocking vents and to have the monitor substantially higher than the keyboard.
Though I wouldn't do it, If he/she plans to pay it off in that 18 months there is no interest rates fee.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
That's a trap. Offers like that usually have fine print along the lines of, if you mess up in the slightest way (one payment a day late, a balance of a few dollars when the 18 months ends, etc.), they go back and retroactively charge you interest as though you had been paying some outlandishly high rate all along. People who will buy something that they can't afford now in hopes that they'll have better finances next year are especially prone to triggering such huge interest charges--which is precisely why it is offered.
I'm fairly good about paying stuff off ~6m of purchase (which is why they keep raising my damned limit).
I'll bite Quiz... what do you think I could pull of in a desktop then? I don't think I want a $900 graphics card (which I saw in another thread and almost coughed up a lung). Apparently I've been out of it for too long. You're essentially the master of this kinda thing and I beseech a bit of wisdom. (I'll also probably buy a new monitor too as the TV's got to go :-P ) I guess I could go with my first SLI or Crossfire setup. Never done one of those before.
can always go for a micro itx/atx build there are some pretty ridiculously small cases now ppl have stuffed some wild components into as well as it gives the ability for future upgrades that laptops wont allow. Some cases are small enough now you could probably throw them in a backpack. Not sure how long its been since you've done a build but its pretty cut and dry snap components together run memtest86 to check for issues with ram (assuming it posts after you turn it on) do some burn ins (pretty much running the pc under heavy loads to test for faulty hardware).
Pc Partpicker is a good site to use and get feed back on theoretical builds as well as get ideas from other pc builders that have done their own builds as well as show decent places to buy your hardware from for the best prices. They also have a configurator there that allows you to test builds and see what you can put together with some amount of compatibility filtering however always check manufacturers websites on certain things like mobo's to make sure the ram you choose is compatible and supported.
OK back in October I got this. http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np9380s-clevo-p370sm3-p-6109.html
It plays Battlefield 4 with a mix of High to Ultra settings. Now with that said I would wait.
The new 800m Nvidia series is about to come out. And do not buy anything with a AMD mobile processor they will bottleneck the GPU.
I know you said you can go with Best Buy for more credit but I would think about using http://www.xoticpc.com/ with PayPal Bill me later. Just make sure you pay it off before the Interest kicks in after 6 months. You will get a better bang for your buck.
I would second getting a desktop and just keeping the laptop you have.
I travel and am usually in hotels 8-12 nights a month, depending. I have an OK laptop I bought a few years ago for under $700. It plays games just fine at med settings which for hotel room gaming for a couple of hours is doable, easily. I find myself surfing & streaming movies more than I game tho.
When your home having a very good desktop beats the shit out of having a good laptop.
Personally I would spend $1200 on a desktop and if you just need a new laptop get one for $6-700 using the leftover cash and a small amount of credit that can easily be paid off soon.
Another option may be to build a SFF portable PC and just take it with you. You can build a nice PC that will fit into a backpack. KB / M & hdmi cable with it and use the hotel flat sceen as a monitor.
Either way with $1500-$2000 to spend gives you some options.
And no i would not do BB financing ever. Your better off using a CC. Quiz did a good summary of why so I wont.
Good luck and enjoy the new toys
Edit: IMO your better off spending the money on 1 high end video card rather than 2 mid range cards in SLI or Xfire. Thats speaking from experience.
There's no need to go nuts with CrossFire or SLI. Just get a single good video card and you're set. It shouldn't be too hard to pick out a rig that offers better than double your current performance in just about everything while staying under $1500. I'll pick something out for you tomorrow, but for now, it's late and I need to get some sleep tonight.
Thanks Quiz. I spent the entirity of the night reading about Kepler and Extreme and trying to figure out motherboard setups. And then whenever I settled on a well reviewed MB (like Asus Rampage IV Gene mATX) I end up grabbing a processor like i7-3930K that may or may not work with it (not including the fact that the chip needs a cooler and I'm not sure how to determine what kind of cooling system might fit in a mATX).
This is one of the main reasons I hated doing this. By not keeping up to date, I have to retrain myself all over again.
I discovered I have this place called Microcenter about 30 minutes away. It seems to be cheap across the board so I could actually go pick this stuff up this weekend if I wanted.
Before it gets said, I currently have 2 spare hard drives in this computer that are going to be taken out and put into the new one. So minus the SSD, I have over 1.5 TBs of hard drives just laying around here :-)
Also, the Intel says it COMES with a cooler.. do I need to (or should I) buy the Cooler Master?
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So here's about what I'm thinking (please feel free to mark this up):
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2OK1i
CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($179.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($149.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($139.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($169.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card ($529.99 @ Microcenter)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($57.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.99 @ Microcenter)
Total: $1327.91
This is a very legit build since it seems price is of no concern to you. And Quiz is right, don't go for SLI unless you have to. It introduces it's own bugs while not being power efficient and causing temperatures to rise.
Also, having used the Hyper 212 personally at one point, i can confirm that it is a good cooler but if you want serious overclocking (which you should with that CPU), invest in a liquid cooler. I have used the Corsair H50 for over 3 years and it keeps my CPU at really good temperatures.
I don't know how to OC nor why. It's never been something that I've looked into because I honestly am not sure what I would need it for :-) In the past I simply just dialed back the graphics a smidge if things weren't working right.
And if I water cool it, doesn't that mean I need to check for leaks? My current desk has a door to the front but lots of space to the top and the rear is completely removed (to facilitate airflow). I rarely look at my computer (minus the occasional reboot) so I thought about staying clear of water and maybe only adding a side fan or two.
And price does concern me but so long as I'm within my budget (which so far I am.. but I still need to buy a copy of Windows 64 and a monitor) I should be ok. So I thought to splurge on little things like a slightly bigger than necessary PS in case I want to upgrade in the future.
They use a special coolant and not pure water. Anyways, they come sealed properly with absolutely zero effort on your part other than installing it. Leaks are extremely rare and are always the fault of people who don't install it safely. Otherwise, they won't leak. And you don't have to do anything. The coolant recirculates between the radiator and your CPU on it's own. Also, overclocking is very easy these days with tons of guides available. I also suggested that because your CPU is one of the best for overclocking (the "K" at the end is for CPU with unlocked cores). It's your choice. If you don't want to, you can stick with Hyper 212.
I'll look into it further in the morning. Judging by what I'm seeing, the increased investment would only be about $25-30 for a Corsair H60. I've been up far too late playing with my, not even bought yet, toys.
Thanks for the info though. It'll give me something to look up tomorrow morning. (and I bought the K because it was bundled with a decent motherboard for $50 off)
if your gonna go for a closed loop cpu cooler ( can be decent as long as your case has sufficient airflow to pass air over your ram or room to add in a ram cooler the way I did with my closed loop). one thing to check for is whether the motherboards cpu cooling set up is 3 or 4 pins I actually have a 4 pin mobo but with a 3 pin closed circuit liquid cooling unit which causes the fan to run on a constant max which adds extra noise and shorter lifespan to the fan itself instead of having a proper 4 pin set up that the mobo can support and control the cpu fan on the radiator to ramp up when needed or slow down at lower settings.
The pc I built last year was in all honesty my first build and I'd never owned a pc till vista had even been released but in the few years I had a comp I was able to self educate alot for what it was worth. and secondary input is always nice from more advanced builders for what your expecting outta yoru pc. as Quiz told another in another thread about getting a perbuilt pc to be patient and that one 1000$ may suit one person just fine but the other it may be 95% useless for another it all depends on what you expect outta your pc and plan to be able to do with it.
I understand alot of this is alot to take in in a short period of time but you'll truly get so much more for you money in the current market than you'd ever be able to pull out of a laptop and I'm not sure if it was this thread or another I'd responded to earlier about gaming comps earlier but I literally shuddered at the thought of someone buying a pc from bestbuy when I'd tried to educate my parent on pc's a couple years ago (even though I didn't have much personal knowledge at the time being I was still pretty new to computers at that time) they ended up spending upwards of 1500$ on something that could have easily been built for less than 500$ at the time excluding peripherals.
Srry for second edit but closed loop water coolers won't always be that much of a benifit to some for me where the summers can get upwards of a 100 degrees F for ambient room temps it made better sense especially running an amd rig which typically runs hotter than intel rigs but have awesome price vs performance advantages most times in a gaming sense. some normal airflow coolers work wonders again though this will also depend on your typical ambient temps as well as hardware used. As you said you tend to trave quite a bit I think so having something adaptable for different types of climates may be more benificial for you.
Thats a solid build that will blow away any game out there.
As for the cpu cooler I would stick with the 212. I just moved my hardware into a new case ( my power button broke in my old one). I wanted a HTPC case and my H60 would not fit into it. I bought a low profile Nocturna air cooler and have no difference really in temps. At least at stock speeds. OCing I would probably notice a difference.
Keep the 212 IMO. Just make sure to use thermal paste, what it comes with should be fine.
If you wanted to overclock at a later date the 212 is fine for that too. My brother and a friend of mine both have that cooler, both overclock just fine. As long as your not doing extreme OCing then most decent air coolers will do.
Not bad.
Some of EVGA's SuperNOVA power supplies have been rather problematic, so I wouldn't get one of them. You may also want a somewhat bigger case, to accommodate a high-powered gaming rig, though the Corsair Carbide 200R that you picked would probably do a passable job of handling your rig. You should also be aware that you don't really need 16 GB of system memory, though you've certainly got the budget to fit it if you want it.
Intel's CPUs do come with a cooler, but it's a decidedly mediocre one. There's no dire need to use the stock cooler on your budget, and using it would pretty much rule out overclocking, too.