They definitely are not the typical kill quests. They're not full blown skyrim quests, but rather somewhere in the middle.
Actually yes they are. You see and hear them talking about several of them in the review.
They are what? Typical kill quests or full blown skyrim quests? Because they most certainly are not typical kill quests. I only played up until about level 10 and I didn't get a single kill quest. And from what I understand the game only opens up even more after that.
Jesus Christ man they were talking about AND showing one of them right in the review.
wow.....
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
They definitely are not the typical kill quests. They're not full blown skyrim quests, but rather somewhere in the middle.
Actually yes they are. You see and hear them talking about several of them in the review.
They are what? Typical kill quests or full blown skyrim quests? Because they most certainly are not typical kill quests. I only played up until about level 10 and I didn't get a single kill quest. And from what I understand the game only opens up even more after that.
Jesus Christ man they were talking about AND showing one of them right in the review.
wow.....
Jesus Christ man there are hundreds of quests that are not your standard kill x kill y quests and many of the previewers and beta players acknowledged that.
They definitely are not the typical kill quests. They're not full blown skyrim quests, but rather somewhere in the middle.
Actually yes they are. You see and hear them talking about several of them in the review.
They are what? Typical kill quests or full blown skyrim quests? Because they most certainly are not typical kill quests. I only played up until about level 10 and I didn't get a single kill quest. And from what I understand the game only opens up even more after that.
Jesus Christ man they were talking about AND showing one of them right in the review.
wow.....
Jesus Christ man there are hundreds of quests that are not your standard kill x kill y quests and many of the previewers and beta players acknowledged that.
Either the game does or does not have it. No one said ALL the quests are like that. No MMO has ALL kill x amount of y quests so even attempting to defend with that is foolish.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
The only thing he complains about are the box prices and the subscription... (but then we where all good paying those like 3 years ago, at which point every non succesfull MMO went f2p and cashshop)...
And then suddenly he advises everyone to buy the more expensive collectors edition, just because it comes with a free horse..
And his whole bit about the horse is both misleading and shows a lack of insight into how the economy works in ESO. It was misleading because he flails his arms about as he screams, "Oh my god! Horses cost 40,000 gold or something ridiculous." While it is true that there are horses that cost 40k, there are also horses that cost 17k.
Where he shows a lack of insight into the economy is; With the speed you acquire gold in this game, there is no reason you couldn't afford a horse in the upper teens to early 20s. Which is where most MMOs traditionally allow you to obtain your first mount.
Also, In those MMOs the ability to acquire a mount is done through level locked arbitrary skill. In ESO, the only restriction is how fast you can acquire the coin. So, when leveling your second tune, toss him some coin and presto! You have a mount as soon as you can reach a stable.
And his whole bit about the horse is both misleading and shows a lack of insight into how the economy works in ESO. It was misleading because he flails his arms about as he screams, "Oh my god! Horses cost 40,000 gold or something ridiculous." While it is true that there are horses that cost 40k, there are also horses that cost 17k.
Where he shows a lack of insight into the economy is; With the speed you acquire gold in this game, there is no reason you couldn't afford a horse in the upper teens to early 20s. Which is where most MMOs traditionally allow you to obtain your first mount.
Also, In those MMOs the ability to acquire a mount is done through level locked arbitrary skill. In ESO, the only restriction is how fast you can acquire the coin. So, when leveling your second tune, toss him some coin and presto! You have a mount as soon as you can reach a stable.
AJ's point of view seemed like an 'average gamer' that likes the ES series having a look at this.
I don't think it is fair to expect an average gamer to spend hours researching for a game.
If the game is that obtuse, then it probably will only have niche appeal (EVE Online) anyway.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
And his whole bit about the horse is both misleading and shows a lack of insight into how the economy works in ESO. It was misleading because he flails his arms about as he screams, "Oh my god! Horses cost 40,000 gold or something ridiculous." While it is true that there are horses that cost 40k, there are also horses that cost 17k.
Where he shows a lack of insight into the economy is; With the speed you acquire gold in this game, there is no reason you couldn't afford a horse in the upper teens to early 20s. Which is where most MMOs traditionally allow you to obtain your first mount.
Also, In those MMOs the ability to acquire a mount is done through level locked arbitrary skill. In ESO, the only restriction is how fast you can acquire the coin. So, when leveling your second tune, toss him some coin and presto! You have a mount as soon as you can reach a stable.
AJ's point of view seemed like an 'average gamer' that likes the ES series having a look at this.
I don't think it is fair to expect an average gamer to spend hours researching for a game.
If the game is that obtuse, then it probably will only have niche appeal (EVE Online) anyway.
However, as a reviewer with a fairly substantial viewership, he has a responsibility to provide his viewers with accurate information. What I went over would not take much research. If he looked at the horse vendor and saw the 40k horse, he most assuredly saw the 17k horse right above it. I did and I looked at the stable vendor for all of five seconds.
However, I do agree with you that this will be a niche game. I think it will appeal to DAoC and WAR fans. I think it will appeal to ESO fans who also like MMOs and it may capture TES fans who play on the PC and wished for a co-op mode, and that's about it. I think Zenimax and Bethesda know this as well. Which is why you are seeing the $15 sub fee. If the rumors are correct that the budget for ESO was north of $200 milllion, then ESO would have to match Skyrim's 3.5 million copies sold just to break even. It won't. The only MMO to date to hit 3.5 million copies sold in the first year is Guild Wars 2. Which is free to play and appeals to a much wider audience.
Assuming ESO sells 1.5 million copies, that would put them (with average of $60/box) at $90 million in revenue. That means they have to earn at least another $110 million before the even start to turn a profit. Let's assume the keep 1 million of the 1.5 million boxes sold past the 30 day free trial. That means they'll start taking in $15 million per month. Assuming they shed another 250k users after 6 months. They will have made up 90 million of the 110 million dollar shortfall. If they can then keep 750k dedicated loyal players, that stay with the game, sure some will come and go, but if they can stay at that 750k range, they will turn a decent profit at the end of the first year and be set up for strong long term revenue generation. I think Zenimax an Bethesda would be very happy with that. Especially if they can grow the number of subscribers by building the game up, fixing anything that's broke, and adding new content.
What is crazy is that the single player Elder Scrolls games will be viewed as being so much better than ESO but yet ESO has a monthly fee. Isn't that kind of backwards ? Should have gone with the original Guild Wars model.
Originally posted by zalatoy Angry Joe is to kind to ESO. The hype is so high but the game is good just not amazing. I felt so disappointed. Like the game has no soul.
I thought it was just the opposite. I've seen so much negativity surrounding this game for months, that I kept wondering where all this hype people were talking about was coming from. This site has been more open minded than most, but other sites and a very vocal group of posters have been killing this game for as long as I've been following it. Point-of-view is a funny old thing, eh?
However, as a reviewer with a fairly substantial viewership, he has a responsibility to provide his viewers with accurate information. What I went over would not take much research. If he looked at the horse vendor and saw the 40k horse, he most assuredly saw the 17k horse right above it. I did and I looked at the stable vendor for all of five seconds.
/snip
He also has a legal agreement to adhere to since he is 'press'.
Isn't the non-NDA only up to level 15?
Maybe he missed it or maybe he didn't.
Like I said, he went in as an average gamer would; buy - install - lets see what this game is about.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
However, as a reviewer with a fairly substantial viewership, he has a responsibility to provide his viewers with accurate information. What I went over would not take much research. If he looked at the horse vendor and saw the 40k horse, he most assuredly saw the 17k horse right above it. I did and I looked at the stable vendor for all of five seconds.
/snip
He also has a legal agreement to adhere to since he is 'press'.
Isn't the non-NDA only up to level 15?
Maybe he missed it or maybe he didn't.
Like I said, he went in as an average gamer would; buy - install - lets see what this game is about.
You are correct. He does. However, that stable vendor is well within that level range.
Its kind of like Ford saying 'we have a new truck its awesome' and when it comes out its a fiat and then some fans of ford are confused as to why some truck lovers are not interested.
reallly?
How is it like that? I just don't see it. I like ESO. It has the Elder Scrolls settings, and many things I liked to do in Elder Scrolls games. Like exploring and questing. People should just play the beta, decide if they like what it is, and if not, don't buy. There's no sense going into a fit about it, because quite frankly it's not going to change what the game is.
That's the point. WHAT IS THE GAME? You say it has many things you like, but you DONT KNOW THAT and it also doesn't matter because other TES fans may like TES for different reasons. They are asking people to pre-order and not giving any information about the majority of the game. So, everyones examples of other types of businesses trying to do this, applies.
Pretty much everyone who wanted to, could get into the beta for this weekend. Sure it was level capped, but for some it gives a good enough indication of what the game is. Me included. Do I think they should be selling the game now with the NDA still up, no. But people aren't forced to buy it RIGHT this moment either. They can wait till the game is available to be tried, like in this weekends beta, or for the NDA to be dropped, hopefully.
With the part about not giving enough information about the end game and such, I'm just not sure I agree. That's been one of my main gripes with several games throughout the last few years. I've simply known too much about them, and what was possible and not possible in the end of the game. It made me bored to death fast.
oh for the love of god...
Just an FYI, Elder Scrolls is based off of a table top RPG that was the first to do something radically different at the time...
NO CLASSES, NO LEVELS, SKILL BASED ONLY.
no classes, no levels, skill based only, no required quests, no required direction, from day one able to go anywhere in the map even if foolish to do so.
People here are trying to suggest that the Elder Scrolls is not all that to them that its something different. Well that might be the case for them but the elements i have listed above where EXPLICT design choices by the series, it is the pillar of the series.
And yet, both Morrowind and Oblivion had classes and levels. Also, though none were 'required' as such, plenty of quests available.
I disagree with his entire review. He simply doesn't have enough information to make any statements about the game. I like AngryJoe, and I generally agree with his reviews, almost unanimously. But he's sort of out of his element with this one. You can't review a game based on a few hours of gameplay in a game that has 50% of its features either locked out of his trial or is unobtainable by the amount of time he invested.
Every single one of his complaints can easily be argued without an NDA preventing me from doing so. A lot of the counterarguments, though, are pretty much related to the fact that this game is not trying to meet the expectations 90% of the player base has been trained to expect from an MMO for the past 10 years. SImply put... it's different.
I disagree with his entire review. He simply doesn't have enough information to make any statements about the game. I like AngryJoe, and I generally agree with his reviews, almost unanimously. But he's sort of out of his element with this one. You can't review a game based on a few hours of gameplay in a game that has 50% of its features either locked out of his trial or is unobtainable by the amount of time he invested.
Every single one of his complaints can easily be argued without an NDA preventing me from doing so. A lot of the counterarguments, though, are pretty much related to the fact that this game is not trying to meet the expectations 90% of the player base has been trained to expect from an MMO for the past 10 years. SImply put... it's different.
At the moment, the only non-NDA is 'up to level 15' and based on that the first impression is pretty accurate.
Maybe the game becomes amazing beyond that.
However, he can't comment on the NDA stuff and it really isn't his problem. Take it up with Zenimax.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick 398 posts arguing over Angry Joe's review and he doesn't even work here. Shame a site article will never draw that much attention.
MMORPG did a review as well, I watched both and MMORPG were a quite a bit more optimistic and while they didn't go in to detail the MMORPG one did touch on crafting as an aspect of the game.
Angry Joe seemed to be running with a 4 man right out of the gate and the intro wasn't aimed in that direction.
Neither and none of the reviews were well scoped. That's not really an option with a 15 minute window on an MMO. A game companies would ideally have you play for years.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick 398 posts arguing over Angry Joe's review and he doesn't even work here. Shame a site article will never draw that much attention.
It's not a review. It is an opinion on BETA for a stress test (good thing since there will not be a traditional BETA according to some posters) with a selective NDA in place.
Edit:
The developers have made this game impossible to "preview/review."
Comments
You know, I think if you hate the game so much why would you hold your breath for breaching the NDA?
Just spill it out. Start a new thread and tell us on the list everything that you hate about the game.
You won't play the game anyway right, so why are you still afraid of being banned by Zenimax?
If the thread locked just make another thread on another forum or social media, spread the words.
Jesus Christ man they were talking about AND showing one of them right in the review.
wow.....
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Jesus Christ man there are hundreds of quests that are not your standard kill x kill y quests and many of the previewers and beta players acknowledged that.
There Is Always Hope!
Either the game does or does not have it. No one said ALL the quests are like that. No MMO has ALL kill x amount of y quests so even attempting to defend with that is foolish.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
And his whole bit about the horse is both misleading and shows a lack of insight into how the economy works in ESO. It was misleading because he flails his arms about as he screams, "Oh my god! Horses cost 40,000 gold or something ridiculous." While it is true that there are horses that cost 40k, there are also horses that cost 17k.
Where he shows a lack of insight into the economy is; With the speed you acquire gold in this game, there is no reason you couldn't afford a horse in the upper teens to early 20s. Which is where most MMOs traditionally allow you to obtain your first mount.
Also, In those MMOs the ability to acquire a mount is done through level locked arbitrary skill. In ESO, the only restriction is how fast you can acquire the coin. So, when leveling your second tune, toss him some coin and presto! You have a mount as soon as you can reach a stable.
AJ's point of view seemed like an 'average gamer' that likes the ES series having a look at this.
I don't think it is fair to expect an average gamer to spend hours researching for a game.
If the game is that obtuse, then it probably will only have niche appeal (EVE Online) anyway.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
However, as a reviewer with a fairly substantial viewership, he has a responsibility to provide his viewers with accurate information. What I went over would not take much research. If he looked at the horse vendor and saw the 40k horse, he most assuredly saw the 17k horse right above it. I did and I looked at the stable vendor for all of five seconds.
However, I do agree with you that this will be a niche game. I think it will appeal to DAoC and WAR fans. I think it will appeal to ESO fans who also like MMOs and it may capture TES fans who play on the PC and wished for a co-op mode, and that's about it. I think Zenimax and Bethesda know this as well. Which is why you are seeing the $15 sub fee. If the rumors are correct that the budget for ESO was north of $200 milllion, then ESO would have to match Skyrim's 3.5 million copies sold just to break even. It won't. The only MMO to date to hit 3.5 million copies sold in the first year is Guild Wars 2. Which is free to play and appeals to a much wider audience.
Assuming ESO sells 1.5 million copies, that would put them (with average of $60/box) at $90 million in revenue. That means they have to earn at least another $110 million before the even start to turn a profit. Let's assume the keep 1 million of the 1.5 million boxes sold past the 30 day free trial. That means they'll start taking in $15 million per month. Assuming they shed another 250k users after 6 months. They will have made up 90 million of the 110 million dollar shortfall. If they can then keep 750k dedicated loyal players, that stay with the game, sure some will come and go, but if they can stay at that 750k range, they will turn a decent profit at the end of the first year and be set up for strong long term revenue generation. I think Zenimax an Bethesda would be very happy with that. Especially if they can grow the number of subscribers by building the game up, fixing anything that's broke, and adding new content.
You know actually reading AngryJoes uploaded video list would have stopped alot of you looking like complete morons.
But I suppose that would be asking too much when someone who has bad things to say about your game and needs attacking.
Console Gamer, doesn't like MMOs, doesn't like ES games.
3 utterly wrong facts defeated by aforementioned list of uploaded videos.
You don't agree fine try debating his points and not shrieking and throwing crap like a monkey.
I thought it was just the opposite. I've seen so much negativity surrounding this game for months, that I kept wondering where all this hype people were talking about was coming from. This site has been more open minded than most, but other sites and a very vocal group of posters have been killing this game for as long as I've been following it. Point-of-view is a funny old thing, eh?
I pre-ordered and have no plans to cancel itThat's what i said along with 50% of my guild when we left WoW (CATA Era) for that game that rhymes with Bar Sores.
He also has a legal agreement to adhere to since he is 'press'.
Isn't the non-NDA only up to level 15?
Maybe he missed it or maybe he didn't.
Like I said, he went in as an average gamer would; buy - install - lets see what this game is about.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Good for you. Now, if you will excuse me, i am gonna go back and enjoy the ESO Beta.
Surprised you have time to be on the forums. Normally when I'm "thrilled" about a game I'm not on MMORPG.com in the forums.
You are correct. He does. However, that stable vendor is well within that level range.
And yet, both Morrowind and Oblivion had classes and levels. Also, though none were 'required' as such, plenty of quests available.
I disagree with his entire review. He simply doesn't have enough information to make any statements about the game. I like AngryJoe, and I generally agree with his reviews, almost unanimously. But he's sort of out of his element with this one. You can't review a game based on a few hours of gameplay in a game that has 50% of its features either locked out of his trial or is unobtainable by the amount of time he invested.
Every single one of his complaints can easily be argued without an NDA preventing me from doing so. A lot of the counterarguments, though, are pretty much related to the fact that this game is not trying to meet the expectations 90% of the player base has been trained to expect from an MMO for the past 10 years. SImply put... it's different.
At the moment, the only non-NDA is 'up to level 15' and based on that the first impression is pretty accurate.
Maybe the game becomes amazing beyond that.
However, he can't comment on the NDA stuff and it really isn't his problem. Take it up with Zenimax.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Animations are bad.
Also too few class skill trees for a game like this.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
MMORPG did a review as well, I watched both and MMORPG were a quite a bit more optimistic and while they didn't go in to detail the MMORPG one did touch on crafting as an aspect of the game.
Angry Joe seemed to be running with a 4 man right out of the gate and the intro wasn't aimed in that direction.
Neither and none of the reviews were well scoped. That's not really an option with a 15 minute window on an MMO. A game companies would ideally have you play for years.
It's not a review. It is an opinion on BETA for a stress test (good thing since there will not be a traditional BETA according to some posters) with a selective NDA in place.
Edit:
The developers have made this game impossible to "preview/review."