i just want the game to be better always wanted a multiplayer elder scrolls game but after playing the beta twice now i just cant see myself playing.
I'm waiting on the pvp to see if thats its savior (for me)
im glad some people are enjoying it though i just wish i was too i love elder scrolls
I don't know how much experience you have with the mmo genre but I will say personally there has been no MMO that I liked from the start, not one.
I grew to like the ones that I loved but I didn't like any of them at the start, if you really like the series you should at least put the time in to try whatever the good content is and see if it grows on you. Having said that of course if you don't really care them just wait for the next mmo, if Elder scrolls is important it seems silly to give up on it after a handful of beta days.
Why thank you for that, but this is still not high quality AAA stuff. This game. It's not.
Can you add "in my opinion" next time? Thanks.
I actually played beyond 30 minutes and think the game is awesome. (Hey, that's my opinion!)
Of course it's my opinion, this is a bloody forum, is it not?
Good for you that you like it. Many people also like Britney Spears and Justin Bieber and they go on to sell millions of records. Does that mean their music is high quality or simply good? No, just means that millions of people have poor taste. And I'm not here to argue with you.
Exacty! Becuase they spent millions to created this title fast (By they best creators) that does not mean its an AAA Title by any means. Its like Fast Food! Mac are nice and cheap but we all know it gonna get u fat and kill you early..and they will never reach the quality of a Gurme !
i just want the game to be better always wanted a multiplayer elder scrolls game but after playing the beta twice now i just cant see myself playing.
I'm waiting on the pvp to see if thats its savior (for me)
im glad some people are enjoying it though i just wish i was too i love elder scrolls
I don't know how much experience you have with the mmo genre but I will say personally there has been no MMO that I liked from the start, not one.
I grew to like the ones that I loved but I didn't like any of them at the start, if you really like the series you should at least put the time in to try whatever the good content is and see if it grows on you. Having said that of course if you don't really care them just wait for the next mmo, if Elder scrolls is important it seems silly to give up on it after a handful of beta days.
my first mmo was GW1 (kinda mmo) and i Loved it instantly!...
I few months later i tried WoW on a private server and instantly loved it and wanted to get the official game and loved it even more.. So basicaly some people can love games immediately...
Now though its really hard for me to Love a game as easy... and im not sure if thats the game or me... maybe im burned out..maybe im expecting too much cause i have already seen many good titles.. People expect from a new game to be as solid and as much content as WoW as it is now after all these expansions... its not fair but really most people cannot realise it.
Also 10 years ago there weren't many mmos to chose from. now there are really nice games some of em AAA titles that i dont even have to pay a euro to play them... so why in that economy should i chose a game that is not really great for a box and a sub and a cash shop..and with how things go in the gaming/mmo industry that game will not be as fun because many people will jump the boat for the next big title?? I think no new mmo worth that anymore. and as i seen ESO only big strength is its IP.. Is that enough? I don't think so..you can look back at Dungeons and dragons and warhammer.. strong IPs that didn't survived all these...and also expensive title such as AGE of Conan....nothing can last if its only a quick money grabber... people now more demanding and the mmos are so many that people will let it go..in a sec.
i just want the game to be better always wanted a multiplayer elder scrolls game but after playing the beta twice now i just cant see myself playing.
I'm waiting on the pvp to see if thats its savior (for me)
im glad some people are enjoying it though i just wish i was too i love elder scrolls
If you have to actively look for other aspects in the game for it to be "saved" in your eyes it's pretty much too late I'm afraid. The game did not deliver for you. I dont know what you want to be different in it, but if it's not some sweeping changes there's always the hope they add in or fix the stuff in future.
Originally posted by amber-rThe costs for making and running an MMO 10 years ago were nothing compared to those prices today.
The cost for making them may have increased, but servers and bandwidth overhead have only decreased in the last 10 years.
An MMO made 10 years ago wasn't expected to have 24/7 customer service, monthly or trimonthly big update patches offering unique content, world class server systems with almost zero lag, regional servers, having server staff on hand 24/7 to get servers up immediately if they crash etc. They also didn't cost hundreds of millions of dollars to create.
Do we really get all that today? we still get ticket ques, we hardly get "big updates anymore" We still get lag, we just get less lag because games arnt actually massively multiplayer Regional servers? lol, yeah right. still get 250ping in nearly every RS mmo (AUS).
Any MMO from 10 years ago (that wasn't WoW, since WoW changed the entire mmo industry) offered a service so poor that it's almost comical by today's standards.
WoW was a shitstorm back then, every game was pretty much on par with bugs. Technology got cheaper, Games became less tech heavy, less muliplayer, less costly.
Ticket queues for customer service on old mmos were weeks, or months. Most modern mmo titles it's hours to days, with Blizzard it's almost always within hours.
Most decent games do get big patches fairly frequently, in older titles you would be lucky to get 1 or 2 a year.
Lag is almost a non-issue in todays mmo, older mmos it wasn't even really worth stating lag when it happened because it was a constant factor.
Not to be rude but Australia is a small market, I was talking about offering regional servers for the the main markets.
Also I honestly can't think of one service that costs the same today as it did 10 years ago, except the p2p mmo.
Why is there this small minority of people who bang on about "I wish high quality AAA stuff was given to me for free.." (F2P) and "I sure hope a game based on one of the most popular franchises in history decides to knock off 50% from the sub for no reason"
It's the price. It's also not "a lot of players" who feel that way, it's you and a few guys.
But what is the sub for? Your "it's the price" statement suggests that you see it as part of the cost of the core game.
Absolutely agree that people should pay; absolutely disagree that the best approach is a sub.
A sub limits initial sales; TESO can sell low millions but these games need high millions. Tens of millions ideally. Skyrim sold tens of millions, TESO - with a sub - isn't likely too. .
Not good. Allow for the tax included in the price in most countries (online and on-shelf), retailers cuts, bandwidth etc. etc. - it isn't much per box sale. (Online profitability is better (but there is still tax usually) but retail is still big).
Scrapping the sub will mean higher sales. AND then Zenimax need to ensure that there is lots of DLC they can roll out. If that means cutting 50% of the current content and packaging it up into 4 DLC packs - so be it. They could even sell them at $15 each - essentially doubling the price of the core game. As I said I don't disagree that people shouldn't pay I just don't believe a sub is the best way to get people to pay.
In recent years games have been trying to emulate WoW and failing. Game launches - sub 1 million or maybe low millions in sales; maybe half subscribe for 1 to 3 months, after 6 months the game is down to a core number of people. TESO deserves better.
But what is the sub for? Your "it's the price" statement suggests that you see it as part of the cost of the core game.
Absolutely agree that people should pay; absolutely disagree that the best approach is a sub.
A sub limits initial sales; TESO can sell low millions but these games need high millions. Tens of millions ideally. Skyrim sold tens of millions, TESO - with a sub - isn't likely too. .
Not good. Allow for the tax included in the price in most countries (online and on-shelf), retailers cuts, bandwidth etc. etc. - it isn't much per box sale. (Online profitability is better (but there is still tax usually) but retail is still big).
Scrapping the sub will mean higher sales. AND then Zenimax need to ensure that there is lots of DLC they can roll out. If that means cutting 50% of the current content and packaging it up into 4 DLC packs - so be it. They could even sell them at $15 each - essentially doubling the price of the core game. As I said I don't disagree that people shouldn't pay I just don't believe a sub is the best way to get people to pay.
In recent years games have been trying to emulate WoW and failing. Game launches - sub 1 million or maybe low millions in sales; maybe half subscribe for 1 to 3 months, after 6 months the game is down to a core number of people. TESO deserves better.
Hmm, even assuming Bethesda invested $200m into ESO, they would make back their money on just over 3 million box sales. That's only assuming a price of $60 too, it's not including the more expensive box copies. That's just to break even, which is what any MMO hopes to achieve from box sales, the real money is achieved from post-launch.
MMOs cost money to run though. Server costs, staff costs, content development, and probably tons of other stuff I'm missing. There has to be a way to generate that cash somehow,.
So yes, there are freemium models and the like but at the end of the day all games have a sub, however you cut it. Some games give you the illusion of choice by calling it "free" but pretty much all games which run on non-sub models require $10-15 (at least) to achieve what you would normally with a sub. I guess you can choose not to pay anything but then you're getting a diminished experience which doesn't make it a positive in any way. Saving money vs having fun.. in this instance, I'd much rather have fun.
Any game which is completely free and only sells cosmetics is either a) an old game or b) an incredibly mediocre game.
The problem and hatred with the sub in recent times is that companies have NOT been delivering what they should have for your money. The theory of it is sound, the practice recently is bad. Bethesda have already stated many times though that they're planning content updates every 4-6 weeks.
$15 a month is not too expensive for a really good game but $6 a month is too expensive for a mediocre game. Plus when I sub I expect to get all races and factions available that anyone else has and not have anything else I have to buy in the *cash shop* when I'm subbing to avoid the cash shop.
If I did find ESO a game worth subbing to that second point would be a far bigger issue for me than the sub price which I can certainly afford if it's going to be my main game for that month.
i welcome your views , but this topic isnt about whether or not we can afford it and more to do with what would be a better for the game in the long run, i believe lower price would = more players = more money. It would have to be worked out how much of an impact having a 15 dollar sub compared to a 7 dollar sub would have and which one would work out better
i just want the game to be better always wanted a multiplayer elder scrolls game but after playing the beta twice now i just cant see myself playing.
I'm waiting on the pvp to see if thats its savior (for me)
im glad some people are enjoying it though i just wish i was too i love elder scrolls
If you have to actively look for other aspects in the game for it to be "saved" in your eyes it's pretty much too late I'm afraid. The game did not deliver for you. I dont know what you want to be different in it, but if it's not some sweeping changes there's always the hope they add in or fix the stuff in future.
yeah i guess your right its a real shame though such a good IP , ive joined the hype train on so many mmos i refuse to do it this time, i would be more inclined to play with a cheaper subscription i dont see why they have to do same price as wow and other games.
I'm not really into F2p but if this game was to go f2p it would probaly be one of the best F2p games out there, but with a standard price like 15 dollars then it will just join the list of all them other so called aaa mmo's that didnt quite cut the mustard.
I have fairly strong opinions on the money I spend on games these days.
In m opinion:
Games with a SUB should be free to download.
Games you buy should not have a SUB at all.
I am reluctant to buy the game and pay a SUB.
For a game to have a download fee and a sub it will have to be a super badass game worth playing for several years and it damn well better have some groundbreaking features.
AMD Phenum II x4 3.6Ghz 975 black edition 8 gig Ram Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
Most of the people who won't sub at one price won't sub because it's a subscription, regardless of the price. Most of the people who would subscribe at $5/month or $10/month will still subscribe at $15/month, because it's not that much money, especially relative to the value of the time you spend on it.
In order to make more money by cutting a subscription fee in half, they have to get more than twice as many players as they would have with the higher fee. That's not going to happen.
Everything always starts off more expensive, then goes B2P and/or F2P depending on consumer demand.
It's the reason why price discrimination exists: if people are willing/able to pay more than something is worth globally, then why not charge them for it?
i welcome your views , but this topic isnt about whether or not we can afford it and more to do with what would be a better for the game in the long run, i believe lower price would = more players = more money. It would have to be worked out how much of an impact having a 15 dollar sub compared to a 7 dollar sub would have and which one would work out better
I can only speak for myself but I don't find the $15 sub fee is that big of a barrier and I think a lot of people over-exaggerate it. I've unsubbed from games like Rift and SWTOR saying "I'll play it if it goes F2P" but when they did go F2P I didn't end up playing them that much because the issues that made me unsub were still there.
Having only so much free time in the day and not really wanting to play more than one MMO at a time is a much bigger factor than sub fee stopping me from jumping on every new MMO's bandwagon. The MMO has to be better than what I'm currently playing and better than all the free options out there (like Rift) to make me want to play it.
I assume Zenimax and other companies study what sub price is most profitable for them (believe me companies do think a lot about this sort of thing). They must've concluded that a $15 sub will make them the most money.
Comments
I don't know how much experience you have with the mmo genre but I will say personally there has been no MMO that I liked from the start, not one.
I grew to like the ones that I loved but I didn't like any of them at the start, if you really like the series you should at least put the time in to try whatever the good content is and see if it grows on you. Having said that of course if you don't really care them just wait for the next mmo, if Elder scrolls is important it seems silly to give up on it after a handful of beta days.
Exacty! Becuase they spent millions to created this title fast (By they best creators) that does not mean its an AAA Title by any means. Its like Fast Food! Mac are nice and cheap but we all know it gonna get u fat and kill you early..and they will never reach the quality of a Gurme !
my first mmo was GW1 (kinda mmo) and i Loved it instantly!...
I few months later i tried WoW on a private server and instantly loved it and wanted to get the official game and loved it even more.. So basicaly some people can love games immediately...
Now though its really hard for me to Love a game as easy... and im not sure if thats the game or me... maybe im burned out..maybe im expecting too much cause i have already seen many good titles.. People expect from a new game to be as solid and as much content as WoW as it is now after all these expansions... its not fair but really most people cannot realise it.
Also 10 years ago there weren't many mmos to chose from. now there are really nice games some of em AAA titles that i dont even have to pay a euro to play them... so why in that economy should i chose a game that is not really great for a box and a sub and a cash shop..and with how things go in the gaming/mmo industry that game will not be as fun because many people will jump the boat for the next big title?? I think no new mmo worth that anymore. and as i seen ESO only big strength is its IP.. Is that enough? I don't think so..you can look back at Dungeons and dragons and warhammer.. strong IPs that didn't survived all these...and also expensive title such as AGE of Conan....nothing can last if its only a quick money grabber... people now more demanding and the mmos are so many that people will let it go..in a sec.
If you have to actively look for other aspects in the game for it to be "saved" in your eyes it's pretty much too late I'm afraid. The game did not deliver for you. I dont know what you want to be different in it, but if it's not some sweeping changes there's always the hope they add in or fix the stuff in future.
Ticket queues for customer service on old mmos were weeks, or months. Most modern mmo titles it's hours to days, with Blizzard it's almost always within hours.
Most decent games do get big patches fairly frequently, in older titles you would be lucky to get 1 or 2 a year.
Lag is almost a non-issue in todays mmo, older mmos it wasn't even really worth stating lag when it happened because it was a constant factor.
Not to be rude but Australia is a small market, I was talking about offering regional servers for the the main markets.
Also I honestly can't think of one service that costs the same today as it did 10 years ago, except the p2p mmo.
But what is the sub for? Your "it's the price" statement suggests that you see it as part of the cost of the core game.
Absolutely agree that people should pay; absolutely disagree that the best approach is a sub.
A sub limits initial sales; TESO can sell low millions but these games need high millions. Tens of millions ideally. Skyrim sold tens of millions, TESO - with a sub - isn't likely too. .
Not good. Allow for the tax included in the price in most countries (online and on-shelf), retailers cuts, bandwidth etc. etc. - it isn't much per box sale. (Online profitability is better (but there is still tax usually) but retail is still big).
Scrapping the sub will mean higher sales. AND then Zenimax need to ensure that there is lots of DLC they can roll out. If that means cutting 50% of the current content and packaging it up into 4 DLC packs - so be it. They could even sell them at $15 each - essentially doubling the price of the core game. As I said I don't disagree that people shouldn't pay I just don't believe a sub is the best way to get people to pay.
In recent years games have been trying to emulate WoW and failing. Game launches - sub 1 million or maybe low millions in sales; maybe half subscribe for 1 to 3 months, after 6 months the game is down to a core number of people. TESO deserves better.
Hmm, even assuming Bethesda invested $200m into ESO, they would make back their money on just over 3 million box sales. That's only assuming a price of $60 too, it's not including the more expensive box copies. That's just to break even, which is what any MMO hopes to achieve from box sales, the real money is achieved from post-launch.
MMOs cost money to run though. Server costs, staff costs, content development, and probably tons of other stuff I'm missing. There has to be a way to generate that cash somehow,.
So yes, there are freemium models and the like but at the end of the day all games have a sub, however you cut it. Some games give you the illusion of choice by calling it "free" but pretty much all games which run on non-sub models require $10-15 (at least) to achieve what you would normally with a sub. I guess you can choose not to pay anything but then you're getting a diminished experience which doesn't make it a positive in any way. Saving money vs having fun.. in this instance, I'd much rather have fun.
Any game which is completely free and only sells cosmetics is either a) an old game or b) an incredibly mediocre game.
The problem and hatred with the sub in recent times is that companies have NOT been delivering what they should have for your money. The theory of it is sound, the practice recently is bad. Bethesda have already stated many times though that they're planning content updates every 4-6 weeks.
i welcome your views , but this topic isnt about whether or not we can afford it and more to do with what would be a better for the game in the long run, i believe lower price would = more players = more money. It would have to be worked out how much of an impact having a 15 dollar sub compared to a 7 dollar sub would have and which one would work out better
yeah i guess your right
its a real shame though such a good IP , ive joined the hype train on so many mmos i refuse to do it this time, i would be more inclined to play with a cheaper subscription i dont see why they have to do same price as wow and other games.
I'm not really into F2p but if this game was to go f2p it would probaly be one of the best F2p games out there, but with a standard price like 15 dollars then it will just join the list of all them other so called aaa mmo's that didnt quite cut the mustard.
I have fairly strong opinions on the money I spend on games these days.
In m opinion:
Games with a SUB should be free to download.
Games you buy should not have a SUB at all.
I am reluctant to buy the game and pay a SUB.
For a game to have a download fee and a sub it will have to be a super badass game worth playing for several years and it damn well better have some groundbreaking features.
AMD Phenum II x4 3.6Ghz 975 black edition
8 gig Ram
Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
Most of the people who won't sub at one price won't sub because it's a subscription, regardless of the price. Most of the people who would subscribe at $5/month or $10/month will still subscribe at $15/month, because it's not that much money, especially relative to the value of the time you spend on it.
In order to make more money by cutting a subscription fee in half, they have to get more than twice as many players as they would have with the higher fee. That's not going to happen.
Doesn't make financial sense to do that.
Everything always starts off more expensive, then goes B2P and/or F2P depending on consumer demand.
It's the reason why price discrimination exists: if people are willing/able to pay more than something is worth globally, then why not charge them for it?
Games, meat, bread, etc.
I can only speak for myself but I don't find the $15 sub fee is that big of a barrier and I think a lot of people over-exaggerate it. I've unsubbed from games like Rift and SWTOR saying "I'll play it if it goes F2P" but when they did go F2P I didn't end up playing them that much because the issues that made me unsub were still there.
Having only so much free time in the day and not really wanting to play more than one MMO at a time is a much bigger factor than sub fee stopping me from jumping on every new MMO's bandwagon. The MMO has to be better than what I'm currently playing and better than all the free options out there (like Rift) to make me want to play it.
I assume Zenimax and other companies study what sub price is most profitable for them (believe me companies do think a lot about this sort of thing). They must've concluded that a $15 sub will make them the most money.