I think you didn't understand what i was saying. I am talking about variety. You can fill up the map with 1000 quests it is still one type of thing you do. When i say lack of content i mean various things to do that gives you a break and avoids the boredom from setting in because you have been doing just same stuff over and over again.
As far as tutorial goes it is very weak and does a poor job of pulling players in the game world.
The quests aren't even close to "doing just same stuff over and over again". Each quest is unique and have purpose. It's not your tipical themepark kill x or loot x quests. This is an Elder Scrolls game, what other stuff you can do in Elder Scrolls games besides questing, exploring, and crafting?
Seriously, I never even made the comparison between ESO and WoW when I played it. But ESO combat is floaty and pretty underwhelming. NPC dont even dodge, there is no collision detection and you dont even have to aim your spells... thats no good...
That's why it's called BETA, my friend. You have to expect a couple of glitches when the thing is in beta. I'm not going to go into details of my experience with it because of NDA. I will say, however, judging from my prior experiences with big AAA games in beta, it's not bad.
The combat has been floaty since November beta.
Do you expect that it will magically be changed/fixed at launch?
The auto target system is also won't be changed. It's the core combat system that they've implemented for release.
The combat has been "floaty" since the inception of the Elder Scrolls series. Anyone who has played any of the them to any extent notices this. And its not about collision detection, its a lack of impact that is felt when smashing an ogre in the face with a two-handed great maul. If combat is the one thing that people are saying that this game has going for it, I'd stray far away from this title. TES series has never been about combat though, it has been about world immersion, character development and exploration(at least that is what I and many others that I discuss the franchise with believe).
Originally posted by Doogiehowser I had 50/50 experince with the game. the biggest problem is whole lot of nothingness in the game. It feels empty and dead and doesn' t even feel like that a war is going on in the world. All these things can be improved and i can assure you that once game is released... lack of content is going to be the biggest complaint.
There is no lack of content. The war is happening in Cyrodiil as stated by Zenimax long time ago. Want to go to war? Reach level 10 and go to Cyrodiil.
As far as tutorial goes it is very weak and does a poor job of pulling players in the game world.
What tutorial zone really does though? Don't think I've ever played an MMO where I thought much of the first 2 hours of the game. It's the nature of them. They're simple, basic and they're designed to introduce you to the game. It's a progression system and one that is needed for them, given the nature of trying to appeal to console gamers. (A lot of first time MMO players potentially).
The first two hours of Tera really pulled me in...boy was I wrong.
As far as TES series, most of those games first two hours are really strong. If I remember correctly, in Morrowind you are just kinda tossed into the world like "Bye! Have fun!". Oblivion's first two hours are rather epic w/ the death of the king etc.. and Skyrim had the dragon invasion scenario. I would have expected TESO to have an intro of epic proportions. To hear that it doesnt is rather disappointing.
As far as tutorial goes it is very weak and does a poor job of pulling players in the game world.
What tutorial zone really does though? Don't think I've ever played an MMO where I thought much of the first 2 hours of the game. It's the nature of them. They're simple, basic and they're designed to introduce you to the game. It's a progression system and one that is needed for them, given the nature of trying to appeal to console gamers. (A lot of first time MMO players potentially).
The first two hours of Tera really pulled me in...boy was I wrong.
As far as TES series, most of those games first two hours are really strong. If I remember correctly, in Morrowind you are just kinda tossed into the world like "Bye! Have fun!". Oblivion's first two hours are rather epic w/ the death of the king etc.. and Skyrim had the dragon invasion scenario. I would have expected TESO to have an intro of epic proportions. To hear that it doesnt is rather disappointing.
Depends on your view I guess. As tutorial zones go, it was pretty cool. A good kick off to your story, some top notch voice acting (Michael Gambon and so on) and a cool ending. You then move onto the starter zone which looks pretty and introduces you to the style of "exploration" questing and the various systems.
What more do people want? Huge boss fights where epic loot rains from the sky?
I am having a lot of fun. It has been awhile since I have felt that I was in a world while playing an MMO and not just go bash this , that and the other ride.
Combat IMO is better than any previous ES games. It doesnt feel floaty to me at all. Enemies move when hit for sure and has way more weight to it than any ES game I have played ( back to morrowind ). Maybe the only thing lacking is more screams , shouts and other battle noises when attacking and so far I have not been blocked by an npc enemy while using a power attack. So I guess that would fall under combat AI for the enemies.
Graphically the game looks better than any MMO I have played recently. The character models look great but struggle with animations sometimes. The world scenery is really nice.. Was really pleased with the AD areas.
Originally posted by AxxarGraphics look fine to me. It seems to be the gameplay, general design and particularly the combat, that the previewers dislike.
The combat is definitely unique. I think people are just too used to WoW's approach to combat. You get used to it.
I think people are used to this type of combat from previous Elder Scrolls games. Particularly Oblivion and Skyrim. Only they feel it was done better in those games.
I think it is about finding the right skill build for you. With the right combo of Magicka and Stamina using skills plus the block, interrupt and dodge, the combat looks like it could be fun. The devs talk about synergies. Once you figure out how to put things together, I bet it would be a better combat system for many out there.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
You have not seen beyond the starting zone unless you were in the PvP weekend test and then only saw the PvP zone. So you have no idea the "depth" of the game, or the gameplay.
So all anyone has seen is a very generic MMO.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by Abrraham Yes, the combat is unique - an action based combat without a collision detection and you don't need even to aim properly! Sorry, after having played Tera, TESO needs a lot tweaking in combat and they should consider to add a collision detection.
I agree that the game needs collision detection but the rest of the combat is fine.
As far as tutorial goes it is very weak and does a poor job of pulling players in the game world.
What tutorial zone really does though? Don't think I've ever played an MMO where I thought much of the first 2 hours of the game. It's the nature of them. They're simple, basic and they're designed to introduce you to the game. It's a progression system and one that is needed for them, given the nature of trying to appeal to console gamers. (A lot of first time MMO players potentially).
The first two hours of Tera really pulled me in...boy was I wrong.
As far as TES series, most of those games first two hours are really strong. If I remember correctly, in Morrowind you are just kinda tossed into the world like "Bye! Have fun!". Oblivion's first two hours are rather epic w/ the death of the king etc.. and Skyrim had the dragon invasion scenario. I would have expected TESO to have an intro of epic proportions. To hear that it doesnt is rather disappointing.
Everyone has their own ideas of "being pulled in". In my case, I couldn't make it past 2 hours in TERA. It was a horrible experience and I never bought the game once I got to test it.
The intros were ok in those games, but again, they were just teaching you how to play the game. Just like any game, and I wouldn't call them epic. They were simply linear events that started you off with a story and a launching point. Same in ESO really, it is just a back story and a launching point to get you into the game and teach you how to play. That is to be expected in every MMO. And how epic can it be when you don't have any skills yet and can only use a single weapon.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
AOC had the best game intro I think. Tortage was an amazing area. It suffered though from hero of the world stuff to though. I miss just starting in a city and being a little grunt. Not the hero of myth that everyone else is.
If ESO's the type of game that grows on you, that opens up once you play it for a while and that requires some investment before it clicks.
Why the heck would they release such a limited part of the NDA? Why would they lift the NDA only from the parts that apparently suck?
Why not lift a much greater part of the NDA so that those great parts of their game get attention? Or if they have to lift a smaller part, why not give reviewers lvl 15 characters and let them review that experience?
I won't judge the game based on these reviews yet, I do fully agree that they cover a very minimal aspect of it. But I will judge Zenimax on being utterly terrible at public relations. First the whole Imperial Edition thing and now a NDA lift of, if everyone here is to be believed, the worst part of the game. Whichever way you twist it, whatever the final quality of the total game may be, that's just incompetent really...
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Graphics look fine to me. It seems to be the gameplay, general design and particularly the combat, that the previewers dislike.
The combat is definitely unique. I think people are just too used to WoW's approach to combat. You get used to it.
No it's the lack of weight, the slowness and the stiff animations. There's no way in hell that a Tab Targeting Combat system (WoW) should be faster paced then an Action Combat System (ESO).
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
If ESO's the type of game that grows on you, that opens up once you play it for a while and that requires some investment before it clicks.
Why the heck would they release such a limited part of the NDA? Why would they lift the NDA only from the parts that apparently suck?
Why not lift a much greater part of the NDA so that those great parts of their game get attention? Or if they have to lift a smaller part, why not give reviewers lvl 15 characters and let them review that experience?
I won't judge the game based on these reviews yet, I do fully agree that they cover a very minimal aspect of it. But I will judge Zenimax on being utterly terrible at public relations. First the whole Imperial Edition thing and now a NDA lift of, if everyone here is to be believed, the worst part of the game. Whichever way you twist it, whatever the final quality of the total game may be, that's just incompetent really...
That's just Matt Firor really.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
It looks fine to me, hard to tell since I havent played and all these very mixed first impressions are floating around. But there's one thing I definately would like to see, and that's collision detection. It's not the world to me but definately a big plus.
What I noticed with the very negatively critical previews of some sites, they seemed to have been deeply stuck in Skyrim. I swear I could count the name "Skyrim" like 50 times in some of them, and the big negative is that the game is not Skyrim with multiplayer. I would really like to hear what they would say about the game if they never played Skyrim and went a bit further than 2 hours in this game.
To me the game does not look all that amazing, and I have expectation fairly low, but I think it gets way too much hammering right now for wrong reasons.
As a mmorpg it looks surprisingly fresh, very rare mmorpg has 1st person view (needs FOV slider though) or combat like this. Also the 3 faction thing is really welcome (and unique factions not like GW2 copied clone factions), 9+1 races to choose from (usually it's about 5-6), rich lore (Rift, TERA, what lore?), long quests (not kill X and done all the time), towns and cities here and there makes the world more immersive, many many ways to build a character... It's not so bad.
Amazing game so far. Its non linear and the world is open to explore. Your character can really be unique and different from everybody else. I am only level 7 and have already tried about 5 different builds on my Redguard Templar. If the PVP is good as the rest of the game then I am home.
As a mmorpg it looks surprisingly fresh, very rare mmorpg has 1st person view (needs FOV slider though) or combat like this.
The only MMORPG that I have played recently that does NOT have 1st person is Neverwinter, every single other one has it. And name me one single thing about the combat that is not sub-standard? ONE THING.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by JJ82 Originally posted by KuinnAs a mmorpg it looks surprisingly fresh, very rare mmorpg has 1st person view (needs FOV slider though) or combat like this.
The only MMORPG that I have played recently that does NOT have 1st person is Neverwinter, every single other one has it. And name me one single thing about the combat that is not sub-standard? ONE THING.
i am curious, what do you consider the standard in mmo combat? and do you believe ESO's combat is inferior to skyrim?
your answer to both of those questions will be telling indeed.
I'm not going to talk about the details of my beta experience since it's under NDA. All I'll say is that unlike countless other MMOs, they seem to have gotten right what counts the most: GAMEPLAY. It annoys me to no end how most MMO companies out there focus on the eye candy and not enough on the gameplay. They pander to that crowd who constantly cries out for the sugar high of beautiful graphics, only to fail miserably after a month or so since beautiful graphics get old without good gameplay.
For those who give this game a chance and don't have this nasty habit of judging a book by its cover, they will appreciate the depth of this game.
This, 100%.
It builds momentum the more time you spend in the game.
I wish I could be so forgiving but its like, you know, real life. First impressions count far more than actual substance and they have walked out of the bathroom dragging sheets of wet toilet paper stuck to those show floor heels. They blew it...
i am curious, what do you consider the standard in mmo combat? and do you believe ESO's combat is inferior to skyrim?
your answer to both of those questions will be telling indeed.
The DaoC/WoW/EQ style is standard MMO combat and its crap combat that leads to facerolling derp boredom.
Skyrim had crap combat, a different kind of crap, the kind that can be modded and made better. MMO crap is worse because it cant be changed.
Telling indeed.
PS. Crap, just cause it needed to be said again.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
As a mmorpg it looks surprisingly fresh, very rare mmorpg has 1st person view (needs FOV slider though) or combat like this.
The only MMORPG that I have played recently that does NOT have 1st person is Neverwinter, every single other one has it. And name me one single thing about the combat that is not sub-standard? ONE THING.
The "1st person view" with no hands and effects is not valid 1st person view which you are talking about here (ala WoW "1st person") it's just a full zoom-in. Skyrim would have been soooo awesome 1st person if it didnt have hands and effects in the 1st person right? It would have been eaten alive.
But why bother with you, if I dont hate the game on every aspect of it you'll just froth around spewing bile like you've been doing the last few days. If you want to bash the game so much, at least dont be so obvious hater. I can agree with many problems about the game, but not about single one of them with you because of your crusade (you are on a forum crusade about a computer game, think about it for a moment please).
I'm not going to talk about the details of my beta experience since it's under NDA. All I'll say is that unlike countless other MMOs, they seem to have gotten right what counts the most: GAMEPLAY. It annoys me to no end how most MMO companies out there focus on the eye candy and not enough on the gameplay. They pander to that crowd who constantly cries out for the sugar high of beautiful graphics, only to fail miserably after a month or so since beautiful graphics get old without good gameplay.
For those who give this game a chance and don't have this nasty habit of judging a book by its cover, they will appreciate the depth of this game.
This, 100%.
It builds momentum the more time you spend in the game.
I wish I could be so forgiving but its like, you know, real life. First impressions count far more than actual substance and they have walked out of the bathroom dragging sheets of wet toilet paper stuck to those show floor heels. They blew it...
First impressions like... Start with 1 ability and or auto attack. Level to 2, get a 2nd ability (1st ability finisher or not). Rinse repeat? Great first impressions indeed 8)
Comments
The quests aren't even close to "doing just same stuff over and over again". Each quest is unique and have purpose. It's not your tipical themepark kill x or loot x quests. This is an Elder Scrolls game, what other stuff you can do in Elder Scrolls games besides questing, exploring, and crafting?
The combat has been "floaty" since the inception of the Elder Scrolls series. Anyone who has played any of the them to any extent notices this. And its not about collision detection, its a lack of impact that is felt when smashing an ogre in the face with a two-handed great maul. If combat is the one thing that people are saying that this game has going for it, I'd stray far away from this title. TES series has never been about combat though, it has been about world immersion, character development and exploration(at least that is what I and many others that I discuss the franchise with believe).
There is no lack of content. The war is happening in Cyrodiil as stated by Zenimax long time ago. Want to go to war? Reach level 10 and go to Cyrodiil.
The first two hours of Tera really pulled me in...boy was I wrong.
As far as TES series, most of those games first two hours are really strong. If I remember correctly, in Morrowind you are just kinda tossed into the world like "Bye! Have fun!". Oblivion's first two hours are rather epic w/ the death of the king etc.. and Skyrim had the dragon invasion scenario. I would have expected TESO to have an intro of epic proportions. To hear that it doesnt is rather disappointing.
Depends on your view I guess. As tutorial zones go, it was pretty cool. A good kick off to your story, some top notch voice acting (Michael Gambon and so on) and a cool ending. You then move onto the starter zone which looks pretty and introduces you to the style of "exploration" questing and the various systems.
What more do people want? Huge boss fights where epic loot rains from the sky?
"By all means, reach for the stars but you need to build the spaceship first"
I am having a lot of fun. It has been awhile since I have felt that I was in a world while playing an MMO and not just go bash this , that and the other ride.
Combat IMO is better than any previous ES games. It doesnt feel floaty to me at all. Enemies move when hit for sure and has way more weight to it than any ES game I have played ( back to morrowind ). Maybe the only thing lacking is more screams , shouts and other battle noises when attacking and so far I have not been blocked by an npc enemy while using a power attack. So I guess that would fall under combat AI for the enemies.
Graphically the game looks better than any MMO I have played recently. The character models look great but struggle with animations sometimes. The world scenery is really nice.. Was really pleased with the AD areas.
I think it is about finding the right skill build for you. With the right combo of Magicka and Stamina using skills plus the block, interrupt and dodge, the combat looks like it could be fun. The devs talk about synergies. Once you figure out how to put things together, I bet it would be a better combat system for many out there.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Yes, ESO grows on you. Like a cancerous polyp.
You have not seen beyond the starting zone unless you were in the PvP weekend test and then only saw the PvP zone. So you have no idea the "depth" of the game, or the gameplay.
So all anyone has seen is a very generic MMO.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I agree that the game needs collision detection but the rest of the combat is fine.
Everyone has their own ideas of "being pulled in". In my case, I couldn't make it past 2 hours in TERA. It was a horrible experience and I never bought the game once I got to test it.
The intros were ok in those games, but again, they were just teaching you how to play the game. Just like any game, and I wouldn't call them epic. They were simply linear events that started you off with a story and a launching point. Same in ESO really, it is just a back story and a launching point to get you into the game and teach you how to play. That is to be expected in every MMO. And how epic can it be when you don't have any skills yet and can only use a single weapon.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
One thing I have to ask in this case then...
If ESO's the type of game that grows on you, that opens up once you play it for a while and that requires some investment before it clicks.
Why the heck would they release such a limited part of the NDA? Why would they lift the NDA only from the parts that apparently suck?
Why not lift a much greater part of the NDA so that those great parts of their game get attention? Or if they have to lift a smaller part, why not give reviewers lvl 15 characters and let them review that experience?
I won't judge the game based on these reviews yet, I do fully agree that they cover a very minimal aspect of it. But I will judge Zenimax on being utterly terrible at public relations. First the whole Imperial Edition thing and now a NDA lift of, if everyone here is to be believed, the worst part of the game. Whichever way you twist it, whatever the final quality of the total game may be, that's just incompetent really...
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
No it's the lack of weight, the slowness and the stiff animations. There's no way in hell that a Tab Targeting Combat system (WoW) should be faster paced then an Action Combat System (ESO).
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
That's just Matt Firor really.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
It looks fine to me, hard to tell since I havent played and all these very mixed first impressions are floating around. But there's one thing I definately would like to see, and that's collision detection. It's not the world to me but definately a big plus.
What I noticed with the very negatively critical previews of some sites, they seemed to have been deeply stuck in Skyrim. I swear I could count the name "Skyrim" like 50 times in some of them, and the big negative is that the game is not Skyrim with multiplayer. I would really like to hear what they would say about the game if they never played Skyrim and went a bit further than 2 hours in this game.
To me the game does not look all that amazing, and I have expectation fairly low, but I think it gets way too much hammering right now for wrong reasons.
As a mmorpg it looks surprisingly fresh, very rare mmorpg has 1st person view (needs FOV slider though) or combat like this. Also the 3 faction thing is really welcome (and unique factions not like GW2 copied clone factions), 9+1 races to choose from (usually it's about 5-6), rich lore (Rift, TERA, what lore?), long quests (not kill X and done all the time), towns and cities here and there makes the world more immersive, many many ways to build a character... It's not so bad.
I'm not sure what's so unique about the combat.
It has the red circles/cones telegraphing mob special attacks just like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2.
It has dodging out of those special attack areas just like Guild Wars 2.
It has active blocking just like some other games.
It has interrupts just like many other games.
It has soft target locking, like Neverwinter.
The only MMORPG that I have played recently that does NOT have 1st person is Neverwinter, every single other one has it. And name me one single thing about the combat that is not sub-standard? ONE THING.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
i am curious, what do you consider the standard in mmo combat? and do you believe ESO's combat is inferior to skyrim?
your answer to both of those questions will be telling indeed.
I wish I could be so forgiving but its like, you know, real life. First impressions count far more than actual substance and they have walked out of the bathroom dragging sheets of wet toilet paper stuck to those show floor heels. They blew it...
The DaoC/WoW/EQ style is standard MMO combat and its crap combat that leads to facerolling derp boredom.
Skyrim had crap combat, a different kind of crap, the kind that can be modded and made better. MMO crap is worse because it cant be changed.
Telling indeed.
PS. Crap, just cause it needed to be said again.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
The combat is the part that grows on you 8)
And the progression...
The "1st person view" with no hands and effects is not valid 1st person view which you are talking about here (ala WoW "1st person") it's just a full zoom-in. Skyrim would have been soooo awesome 1st person if it didnt have hands and effects in the 1st person right? It would have been eaten alive.
But why bother with you, if I dont hate the game on every aspect of it you'll just froth around spewing bile like you've been doing the last few days. If you want to bash the game so much, at least dont be so obvious hater. I can agree with many problems about the game, but not about single one of them with you because of your crusade (you are on a forum crusade about a computer game, think about it for a moment please).
First impressions like... Start with 1 ability and or auto attack. Level to 2, get a 2nd ability (1st ability finisher or not). Rinse repeat? Great first impressions indeed 8)