anyone criticizing this game so far, is probably not a PvP player. If your looking for a solo questing game, this probably isnt it. You want to to be in some hard core battles, sieges and raids, then you will love it.
Actually this game has fantastic solo questing. It struggles a bit with group questing though.
Originally posted by Gorwe I'll stick with the true and proven single player TES. I'm all for change, but this just stinks of a Cash grab(only thing missing in the picture are the lifetime subs).
Plus, I have a BAD feeling about TES game without the construction set...
They spent tens of millions of dollars and 3+ years on production and brought in a voice cast that would make Pixar and Disney jealous, and it's a cash grab? Do you even know what a cash grab is?
I'm with the "I really wanted to enjoy it" crowd but so far has the SWToR feeling to it. I think if a player loves questing then they could very well have a great time.
I was disappointed when I tried to leave the first island and found out that I couldn't move on without completing the quest chain. But... starter island so np, I figured I'll do it then be into the real world and be able to explore. Finally got out of there and ended up with the same thing/different island. Definitely rail questing through that point and very unenjoyable for my tastes.
After the real world opened up I decided to go adventuring and was disappointed in the itemization of the mobs. It seemed like a majority of drops was an exciting 1 gold. Not much for exp either so I think a player would just have to suck up questing in order to advance. Not one piece of usable armor (that would be any kind of upgrade) dropped so both exp and armor upgrades are quest based. Unfortunately, not my favorite style of MMO play.
I kind of like the combat. I can see where some would call it clunky, etc. but it works for me. My only complaint was that there was no challenge to killing mobs. Fun if you enjoy MMOs where you can just wade through the bad guys like a hot knife through butter.
I liked the graphics... while not cutting edge they are decent enough and fit the scenery/mood of the MMO.
Crafting (I got up to level 10) was decent but nothing spectacular.
I think it would be up to PvP/RvR to keep me entertained in this one. I hope to try that next. Otherwise it's mostly a been there/done that kind of MMO.
Why do these press reviews forget that there were hardly any people in the game when they spent a few hours at the keyboard, of course the chat was quiet, there was hardly anybody there. Over this weekend the chat has been very busy, which I suppose is a result of actually having more than a dozen people online.
so expecting basic good graphics, no stiff weird looking mechanics, and a game both groups and solo people can play is holding eso to a higher standard thatn other games?
---
sounds to me they are holding it to the king of mmo's standard - wow has all of those things. and before you jump on me for this comment abt wow, i havent played it for over a year and dont plan to go back. but even the most diehard hater of wow, who has put in plenty of time on it til something else came along, has to admit the blizz rpg devs (not the current rts devs) have created the best mmo, and every other company has to bring themselves up to their standard and go beyond if they plan to get anywhere.
WoW has had ten years of development and expansion. If you want to compare the two then you must imagine what ESO will be like after that amount of time and work.
Either you didn't really play this game, or its already changed significantly since you have. Almost everything you said about the starter zone is incorrect, and I just finished it myself yesterday. I didn't feel like I was running erands, I felt like I had to find and help all of the villagers before the Covenant attacked and killed everyone. There were lots of other real people running around, and I even got friend requests. I was able to immediately start crafting. The chat box was so busy I had to work hard to ignore it.
There are still some bugs. I'm sure some of the things you were looking for will be implemented. It just seems like in an effort for you guys to find a differing opinion, what you did instead was something ignorant.
Or you're just ignoring the glaring problems because you can live with them and you're remembering the situation fonder than it deserves.
I had the exact same experience as this OP and I played this last weekend. Boring rail questing tutorial that was overly long. Not to mention the crowding and waiting in line for public shit after you left the tutorial area. Clunky as shit combat...not even attempting to be smooth. Same old rehash of the skill system GW2 took from predecessors. Not sure why everyone's so impressed with the 'skills on weapons' idea. It wasn't impressive 15 years ago either.
All in all, just trying to slap ES content onto a shitty engine with shitty mocap/modeling. But, whatever, if people are stupid enough to buy it, so be it.
Once again Storylines prove greater then gameplay. I'm a solo player/ single player so I'm going to be happy either way, I think WoW made a lot of us into solo players. I like solo playing it in an MMO because there is times I like to just chat with people while playing. Skyrim was boring not having anyone to share stories with about my adventures.
Careful all.... Us testers are still under an NDA, the press is not. That being said I don't see how it took him 5hrs to make the chatbox usable... I was out of the starter zone and at lvl 5 and in a guild in less than an hour, already exploring the open world.
the jumping, imaginary enemies slashing people ruin the games atmosphere by themselves. When I imagine all the other crap that comes with the genre nowadays...no thanks. Can ignore it in other games, not in elder scrolls. ^^
There are just some games which dont NEED to be mmos.
Originally posted by eric1000
Originally posted by threefeet
so expecting basic good graphics, no stiff weird looking mechanics, and a game both groups and solo people can play is holding eso to a higher standard thatn other games?
---
sounds to me they are holding it to the king of mmo's standard - wow has all of those things. and before you jump on me for this comment abt wow, i havent played it for over a year and dont plan to go back. but even the most diehard hater of wow, who has put in plenty of time on it til something else came along, has to admit the blizz rpg devs (not the current rts devs) have created the best mmo, and every other company has to bring themselves up to their standard and go beyond if they plan to get anywhere.
WoW has had ten years of development and expansion. If you want to compare the two then you must imagine what ESO will be like after that amount of time and work.
I guarantee you, in 10 years there will be no more TESO.
Very interesting article on this game I'm glad your actually pointing out things that are good and bad. Do you feel that since there is 2 months left before PC release that the game will be more polished? I saw the developers video when they were attacking the portal and all the daedric were boring out. It seemed to me the combat was very challenging and required you to have friends helping out. It didn't seem to me that the animations were chunky but I don't know when that video was made, but since you said you played this weekend could you compare that video with your experience? Please tell me if there has been improvements. Also since this game is going to console as well do you think the removing of tessellations and mega textures should be added for the PC version? If memory serves me right there was a patch in skyrim shortly after release to bump up the graphics. Which I was amazed since it looked awesome already.
I would also like to say that since I've been in swtor beta I couldn't really but a solid judgment on it since I only had a short time testing it. That being said I've seen another writer on this site say that it really opened up after about 10 hours of playing. Maybe if people would try to immerse themselves in the story instead of just clicking away like the MMO's in the past this game would be more enjoyable. Hopefully this is a MMO that makes you earn your gear through grinding. Also I hope that there are those feelings of "hmm should I really go in there??" That's what I loved from the TES games.
Want to zero in on the starter island stuff since I see it come up a lot:
I really think the reason we can't square the starter island experience is because we (MMO vets) aren't actually the target audience for it. That's why you're seeing all these weird reactions this weekend. People who don't like the game at first and then warm up to it once they get off the island.
If not us, then who? Well, ZOS is trying to get non-MMO playing ES fans, and more importantly, console players, into the fold. The starter island is more than likely designed with them in mind, which is why it's a much shallower experience than the rest of the game. Imagine being a console only player who has never played an MMO and being dropped into the post starter island zones immediately? Would probably be pretty overwhelming, no?
Does that mean it has the potential to just turn some MMO vets off immediately? I'm sure. But it looks like a lot of people gave it another whack and humped through it into the real game.
That's my take, anyways.
Do you guys tend to group at all during MMO reviews? Did you try doing quests with other people who were (or weren't) on the same step?
This game is solo centered and it absolutely ruined the beta for me and my friends, yet I see very few reviewers talk about questing with other people (something a LOT of people tend to do in MMOs).
I think that grouping and questing needs to really be talked about, but most reviewers are playing the game solo (and MAYBE group for a specific group instance) and are missing a large part of the game for many people. The result is a lot of people are going to be seriously pissed when they play at release.
I've played the game with friends for my entire experience, actually. Anywhere from 2-4 people at any given time. The only time it wasn't friendly for group questing was when doing 'main story' quests, which are an extremely tiny portion of the content. I read something like 5-6 hours total if done back-to-back according to Paul Sage in a recent AMA.
I also tried to play with a friend. At first we found out we couldn't because we were on different factions. So we recreated a toon and had to suffer through the intro again (why can't we skip that?). When we were finally grouped we found that quest objectives weren't shared! Destroy 5 rat's nests means you have to destroy 10 when you are with 2. So, eventually after 30 minutes we realised it was much more effective to solo on. I still have to discover the MMO part of this game.
I myself was kinda dissapointed with teso, and the biggest reasons was the UI (somehow it lacks) and it didnt felt as MMORPG to me, for me a big deal. Also ... I decided not to play or look forward to any mmorpg that is developer for pc and consoles together again, because I hate how it is whole game is ''dumbed'' down to be playable on console, the ui, the combat, tje social, the graphics etc.
But because I already pre purchased the game i will give it try and level to max level to see what end game is about.
But the minute Wildstar is released, I know for sure, that i drop every existing game and acitivites in rl and play that for as long as possible, untill i drop out and then for many many months? Hope years
I am 100% with you on this man... I preordered TESO to check it out and cap out and checkout end game until Wildstar comes out. Then I will pass my TESO account to my son and get myself lost in Wildstar.
This is where I think they messed up - they waited until you're done with the starter areas, of which there are a few to slog through, before it really opens up into the game it is. And by that time people have already quit and are filling up forum threads about how there is no exploration, is just linear, boring etc. And it's the player's fault somewhat for writing off the game before giving it a true shot (because the game truly does get exponentially better once done with the starter areas) but Zenimax really messed up by not making the starter areas more fun and for taking so long to get through them.
Kinda like the opposite of Age of Conan , this is true , sort off . The game gets better after starter area/island . I do like the crafting system , I do like a lot of things in this game , but for me it is all about immersion , that feeling that you have to see more , have to do more . The starter area kinda kills the mood . It is lacking atmosphere , a sense of urgency , and quests / events that keep pushing you and build tension. They should focus on start , 1st impressions are important .
I agree with Angry Joe and disagree with Garath the OP - ESO should go F2P.
ESO isn't good enough for purchase or a sub (it's too much like SWTOR), so they should make ESO the best F2P game ever - because the Elder Scrolls franchise needs to continue to be the best. Otherwise, it's going to be more difficult to sell the next single-player game.
In other words, we might be witnessing the beginning of the end of the Elder Scrolls franchise due to poor game design.
"as if my character’s arse and spine had fused together during an unfortunate toilet accident"
While I appreciate a good turn of phrase, ones with a chuckle at the end in particular, the author should just stay away from such painting until he learns that more is not always better. I read the article as a 'convince' piece (vs a convey) and the attempts at 'tongue-in-cheek' took away from the whole.
On the subject of ESO.
Three betas ago I would have agreed with you on all counts and decided (graciously rather than rabidly) that ESO wouldn't make it for me.
Two betas ago I modified my thoughts somewhat to 'Hm...Maybe'. I'm not sure what changed for me. Other than some bug fixing and crafting there weren't huge changes. I TINKERED with crafting...hur, hur but didn't get hugely into it. Has potential but I wanted to explore.
This beta I didn't have a lot of time. I was surprised to see the game running Monday AM and was happy for a short day at work (not by design). I started playing around 1PM EST and played more or less constantly until 6PM. I decided to sub/buy somewhere in that time. In the 2nd beta I knew exactly what class/weapon I was going to work with and knew there would be little to no deviation. Of course in the few hours I played yesterday that all changed. I found two...TWO DAMMIT....more that I like.
One thing (without crossing any NDA lines) that really hammered into me (and I remain mystified as to why) are all of the achievements possible. The total number of achievements just for fishing and cooking alone seemed staggering to me.
Everyone is going to make their own choice for ESO. I'm not a fanboi but I've decided to join in on opening day. I do think ESO will go F2P eventually unless there is a huge 'special' hidden in the wings but where I originally would have given them 6- 8 month or less, I'll extend that to 18 months at least. And even then it will be fun game. I'm looking forward to it.
I'm all for game reviews and advanced feedback... but what about the NDA?
I'm not saying I disagree with the OP, but I'm curious about how much of what has been said here should actually be said here?
Members of the press, which Gareth is a part of as a writer for MMORPG.com, had the NDA lifted for the purpose of writing preview articles such as this one. No worries.
That said, and just by way of reminder for those of you who are currently in the ESO beta, the NDA is still in effect. Please do not write of your specific game experiences in anything more than very broad and general terms.
Originally posted by Mitara I totally believed in you, until you started writing about Wildstar, then all of a sudden your opinion wasnt worth much anymore.
Oh wow, holy crap I just noticed that. I'm probably being paranoid but I can't fault some people for wanting to get into betas just to freeview the games. I'm not saying the author here had a hidden agenda but like others, I did find the tone of the article to be a little strained.
I've never tried Wildstar myself but I shudder to think that I'd get in there and BOOM- on-rails, same old, same old- like you can't trust anyone but yourself when it comes to forming an opinion about a game!
I agree with the article, by the time i got off the starter island i had no desire to continue playing the game, If it does get better as some people say (the same people who seem to like the drab starting experiance i might add) then they need to delay the game and over haul the starting experiance because its woefull.
Its funny see'ing all the rabid fan boys raging once again, this is not a pay to play quality game it will tank and go f2p with in a year, so enjoy being milked.
I saw alot of grouping from lvl2+ and as for the chat .. that was busy and at one point we even got told to shut up as we were chatting non stop (ok about gfx cards etc) but if you get no chat in-game it's generally a problem stemming q the playerr, not game. Chat needs players to type before it's any good.
Then again it can fail when you can't understated what the hell is being said too.
If Zenimax need to pull content to ensure they can provide regular DLC drops for at least the next 6 months - so be it. Just sell a huge game for $60 rather than a gigantic game.
With no sub ESO can aim for tens of millions of sales and lots of DLC sales - that will mimic a sub - allowing them to create lots more ES content.
Comments
Actually this game has fantastic solo questing. It struggles a bit with group questing though.
They spent tens of millions of dollars and 3+ years on production and brought in a voice cast that would make Pixar and Disney jealous, and it's a cash grab? Do you even know what a cash grab is?
I'm with the "I really wanted to enjoy it" crowd but so far has the SWToR feeling to it. I think if a player loves questing then they could very well have a great time.
I was disappointed when I tried to leave the first island and found out that I couldn't move on without completing the quest chain. But... starter island so np, I figured I'll do it then be into the real world and be able to explore. Finally got out of there and ended up with the same thing/different island. Definitely rail questing through that point and very unenjoyable for my tastes.
After the real world opened up I decided to go adventuring and was disappointed in the itemization of the mobs. It seemed like a majority of drops was an exciting 1 gold. Not much for exp either so I think a player would just have to suck up questing in order to advance. Not one piece of usable armor (that would be any kind of upgrade) dropped so both exp and armor upgrades are quest based. Unfortunately, not my favorite style of MMO play.
I kind of like the combat. I can see where some would call it clunky, etc. but it works for me. My only complaint was that there was no challenge to killing mobs. Fun if you enjoy MMOs where you can just wade through the bad guys like a hot knife through butter.
I liked the graphics... while not cutting edge they are decent enough and fit the scenery/mood of the MMO.
Crafting (I got up to level 10) was decent but nothing spectacular.
I think it would be up to PvP/RvR to keep me entertained in this one. I hope to try that next. Otherwise it's mostly a been there/done that kind of MMO.
In my opinion of course.
Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
Palazious 75 wizard EQ
Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15
WoW has had ten years of development and expansion. If you want to compare the two then you must imagine what ESO will be like after that amount of time and work.
Or you're just ignoring the glaring problems because you can live with them and you're remembering the situation fonder than it deserves.
I had the exact same experience as this OP and I played this last weekend. Boring rail questing tutorial that was overly long. Not to mention the crowding and waiting in line for public shit after you left the tutorial area. Clunky as shit combat...not even attempting to be smooth. Same old rehash of the skill system GW2 took from predecessors. Not sure why everyone's so impressed with the 'skills on weapons' idea. It wasn't impressive 15 years ago either.
All in all, just trying to slap ES content onto a shitty engine with shitty mocap/modeling. But, whatever, if people are stupid enough to buy it, so be it.
the jumping, imaginary enemies slashing people ruin the games atmosphere by themselves. When I imagine all the other crap that comes with the genre nowadays...no thanks. Can ignore it in other games, not in elder scrolls. ^^
There are just some games which dont NEED to be mmos.
I guarantee you, in 10 years there will be no more TESO.
great article
very close to the truth !
but dont forgeth that is game of the games
It's good to be bad !
Very interesting article on this game I'm glad your actually pointing out things that are good and bad. Do you feel that since there is 2 months left before PC release that the game will be more polished? I saw the developers video when they were attacking the portal and all the daedric were boring out. It seemed to me the combat was very challenging and required you to have friends helping out. It didn't seem to me that the animations were chunky but I don't know when that video was made, but since you said you played this weekend could you compare that video with your experience? Please tell me if there has been improvements. Also since this game is going to console as well do you think the removing of tessellations and mega textures should be added for the PC version? If memory serves me right there was a patch in skyrim shortly after release to bump up the graphics. Which I was amazed since it looked awesome already.
I would also like to say that since I've been in swtor beta I couldn't really but a solid judgment on it since I only had a short time testing it. That being said I've seen another writer on this site say that it really opened up after about 10 hours of playing. Maybe if people would try to immerse themselves in the story instead of just clicking away like the MMO's in the past this game would be more enjoyable. Hopefully this is a MMO that makes you earn your gear through grinding. Also I hope that there are those feelings of "hmm should I really go in there??" That's what I loved from the TES games.
I also tried to play with a friend. At first we found out we couldn't because we were on different factions. So we recreated a toon and had to suffer through the intro again (why can't we skip that?). When we were finally grouped we found that quest objectives weren't shared! Destroy 5 rat's nests means you have to destroy 10 when you are with 2. So, eventually after 30 minutes we realised it was much more effective to solo on. I still have to discover the MMO part of this game.
I am 100% with you on this man... I preordered TESO to check it out and cap out and checkout end game until Wildstar comes out. Then I will pass my TESO account to my son and get myself lost in Wildstar.
Kinda like the opposite of Age of Conan , this is true , sort off . The game gets better after starter area/island . I do like the crafting system , I do like a lot of things in this game , but for me it is all about immersion , that feeling that you have to see more , have to do more . The starter area kinda kills the mood . It is lacking atmosphere , a sense of urgency , and quests / events that keep pushing you and build tension. They should focus on start , 1st impressions are important .
I agree with Angry Joe and disagree with Garath the OP - ESO should go F2P.
ESO isn't good enough for purchase or a sub (it's too much like SWTOR), so they should make ESO the best F2P game ever - because the Elder Scrolls franchise needs to continue to be the best. Otherwise, it's going to be more difficult to sell the next single-player game.
In other words, we might be witnessing the beginning of the end of the Elder Scrolls franchise due to poor game design.
"as if my character’s arse and spine had fused together during an unfortunate toilet accident"
While I appreciate a good turn of phrase, ones with a chuckle at the end in particular, the author should just stay away from such painting until he learns that more is not always better. I read the article as a 'convince' piece (vs a convey) and the attempts at 'tongue-in-cheek' took away from the whole.
On the subject of ESO.
Three betas ago I would have agreed with you on all counts and decided (graciously rather than rabidly) that ESO wouldn't make it for me.
Two betas ago I modified my thoughts somewhat to 'Hm...Maybe'. I'm not sure what changed for me. Other than some bug fixing and crafting there weren't huge changes. I TINKERED with crafting...hur, hur but didn't get hugely into it. Has potential but I wanted to explore.
This beta I didn't have a lot of time. I was surprised to see the game running Monday AM and was happy for a short day at work (not by design). I started playing around 1PM EST and played more or less constantly until 6PM. I decided to sub/buy somewhere in that time. In the 2nd beta I knew exactly what class/weapon I was going to work with and knew there would be little to no deviation. Of course in the few hours I played yesterday that all changed. I found two...TWO DAMMIT....more that I like.
One thing (without crossing any NDA lines) that really hammered into me (and I remain mystified as to why) are all of the achievements possible. The total number of achievements just for fishing and cooking alone seemed staggering to me.
Everyone is going to make their own choice for ESO. I'm not a fanboi but I've decided to join in on opening day. I do think ESO will go F2P eventually unless there is a huge 'special' hidden in the wings but where I originally would have given them 6- 8 month or less, I'll extend that to 18 months at least. And even then it will be fun game. I'm looking forward to it.
Members of the press, which Gareth is a part of as a writer for MMORPG.com, had the NDA lifted for the purpose of writing preview articles such as this one. No worries.
That said, and just by way of reminder for those of you who are currently in the ESO beta, the NDA is still in effect. Please do not write of your specific game experiences in anything more than very broad and general terms.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh wow, holy crap I just noticed that. I'm probably being paranoid but I can't fault some people for wanting to get into betas just to freeview the games. I'm not saying the author here had a hidden agenda but like others, I did find the tone of the article to be a little strained.
I've never tried Wildstar myself but I shudder to think that I'd get in there and BOOM- on-rails, same old, same old- like you can't trust anyone but yourself when it comes to forming an opinion about a game!
I agree with the article, by the time i got off the starter island i had no desire to continue playing the game, If it does get better as some people say (the same people who seem to like the drab starting experiance i might add) then they need to delay the game and over haul the starting experiance because its woefull.
Its funny see'ing all the rabid fan boys raging once again, this is not a pay to play quality game it will tank and go f2p with in a year, so enjoy being milked.
Then again it can fail when you can't understated what the hell is being said too.
B2P + paid DLC. Not F2P; not a subscription.
If Zenimax need to pull content to ensure they can provide regular DLC drops for at least the next 6 months - so be it. Just sell a huge game for $60 rather than a gigantic game.
With no sub ESO can aim for tens of millions of sales and lots of DLC sales - that will mimic a sub - allowing them to create lots more ES content.