What is happening to our mmo's ??? I am older for sure, I thought mmos would become more complex. I rember when we dreamed of being able to have sound coming from our computers. I rember when we used to dream of having pictures on our computers. I keep hopeing for more challenging play but I have to admit lately its seams the trend is dumer and dumer games.
5 attacks a potion slot and elite skill is going to get boaringly repetitive very fast.
Walking around spamming e thousands of times at boxes etc is going to hurt our hands.
EVERYTHING in the eso world is kinda washed out dul brown looking.
Zenimax, hun, if u make a dumbed down, simple, repetive, slow moving game and charge a monthly fee for and have a cash shop and charge 80 dollars for people to try it, it is not going to last in the mmo market.
The charcter models don't look sexy or strong and the armour looks horrable and bland.
Combat is deeper then one would expect... it really shines in group situations and PvP.... and please tell me what MMO has really fun solo combat?
You missed on those 5 attacks... having 18 different attacks to do DPS in a rotation does not give combat more depth then having a single attack that does DPS... in ESO all your 12 hotbar buttons have their own reason and function... and you truely meed to make choices based on what happens in the game ... and not repeat the same rotation time and time again just to do DPS, give moer healing or keep agro.. and keep in mind that in a game like EQ... people only had how many skills? And we loved it all...
So you dont like an active realtime combat system because it hurts your hands... good point... i just dont agree, get a good position behind your PC and relax..
So you prefer bright colorfull cartoonish graphics.... above the semi realistic ESO graphics... just get out of your lazy chair and walk intoo mother natures garden and see how much dull brown there is...
No they did not make a dumbed down simple game... you just dont see or dont agree the challenges ..
The character models are great.. (true, you can still not make fat toons or really beefy conan toons... but the models are realistic and there is enough sliders and such to make a toon to your liking that looks different from all others..
And if you only would have spend some time, you would have found that allready on the character creation tab there is an option to show veteran armors on your character, and these veteran armors look great... By level 7 some people got an armor piece from the queen that allready looked stunning... From the armor we saw a few months ago that just looked like it was painted ontoo the body, nothing is left... things got vastly improved...
I have been playing MMOs since the releae of good old EQ... and i actually love the direction current day MMO´s are taking... but then i love a good story... but most of all, i just love MMO´s that feel different from all those that i played before... and thats where ESO is doing a very good job.. It feels like ESO... Not like any MMo i played before, and not like Skyrim either... it feels like ESO and i liked what i see... and with over 500 hours of stories, 16 great dungeons, awesome PvP and even endgame adventure sones... and more freedom to build my own character then any other MMO- I think i am set for a great deal of fun... and if it only lasts for a few months, even then it was worth its money...
How can an oldtimer like you complain about the monthly subs and costs, as we have allways been paying for these box prices and these subs...really... i still pay as much for a sub as i did 15 years ago... and everything else in this big bad world got way more expensive..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
How many of your ranged attacks and abilities require a target before you can use them?
How many of your ranged attacks and abilities DON'T auto home?
Sadly it's nothing like a shooter, just more of the same old same old.
I am so happy to see this issue brought up because i have searched high and low for a discussion on this. I don't know what this system is called but i am not happy one bit.
Ive been wanting to comment on this are we allowed to talk about it (nda)?
I was extremely disappointed minutes into game when a mob cast magic at me, i dodged, and the magic literally turned 90 degrees followed me and hit me. I sat there for a minute after killing the creature while my mind processed my disappointment.
Then you might have stopped playing each and every Tab based MMO as well. I cannot understand how people can come up with the auto lock argument everytime when MMOs have been doing this for all eternity. Melee combat has no lock and is full free form. Ranged combat requires it and it has. Only other alternative would be to make all ranged attacks huge AoEs like Wildstar. Even Tera uses auto target detection on some ranged attacks while rest are AoEs. The auto attacks without locks are instant and just high speed projectiles.
Can I have some of the kool-aid you're drinking?
In what dream world do ranged attacks *require* target locking? They certainly do not, and the idea is crazy. Have you ever fired a ranged weapon in real life? Did you get a nice target lock to help you aim? I know I didn't. The best I can hope for is a laser dot to tell me where the projectile is going to strike (provided wind doesn't change it's course too much).
Even in pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons, there were very few attacks that would always hit. The classic "magic missile" was about it. Lightning? Nope... could be dodged or it could strike cover instead of you. Fireball? Nope... even though it's an AOE, if you had cover the blast could go around you.
It would be trivial to simply give projectile attacks a very narrow cone AOE, so if you were within a few degrees of the target, it would hit... but if the target moves out of that narrow arc, it misses. Having spells follow you around corners is stupid, unless it's part of the spell's nature -- and then it should be balanced to be weaker or more expensive than similar non-guided spells.
This is not Real life. This is a game and this is a gaming forum. And in every Tab based MMO, the targets get locked just from clicking on them. Here atleast there is a soft lock to do. And just like in Tab based MMOs, the attack will not go off if you are not in the field of view.
And ffs, we are talking about magic here. If i could conjure up magic then i will be able to lock it to you.
It makes me really sad to look at Elder Scrolls online, such a wasted opportunity. They've taken one of the best game IPs in the games industry, taken out literally every game mechanic that makes Skyrim the masterpiece it is and then wrapped it around a cookie cutter MMO.
Lets be honest, the combat is floaty, lacks weight and is a jerky mess. The animation is just as bad and even little things like not being able to swim underwater really jar. In terms of content there's very little to do apart from run from quest to boring quest using said naff combat.
Then we come to the pricing, you guys who play this are being charged top whack. Add to this a monthly sub and then the insult that is a pay wall to access the best race in the game. It feels like a money grab guys, I'm sorry but it makes me really annoyed to see people being ripped off. This game simply cannot survive on the pay model it's being launched at, there is not real end game unless you count the PVP (which I hear is good) and so this will be F2P in the very near future. Same thing happened with Starwars, amazing IP violated by being made into an MMO we've seen a hundred times before.
For me there is only one MMO worth looking at this year and that's Wildstar.
What I got out of this post was, OMG, its not free so i'm not playing... Wild star I tested that, don't make me laugh at the cartoony mess. If you think thats good, you got to be blind. Nothing to do??? ROFL, I played this game for 6 months and yet to finish everything it has to offer, so i'm confused.. The pricing Lets see games since 2004, WOW 15 a month , its ten years later, oh the same price. 60 for the box for WOW... Guess what the same price for this game... I'm confused were you gamers get this its to much money.. You have this free to play attitude, and its getting annoying, I want it back to the old days when we have all the subs back!!!!
This will drive out the people who ruin communitys!! This is a fact.
What is happening to our mmo's ??? I am older for sure, I thought mmos would become more complex. I rember when we dreamed of being able to have sound coming from our computers. I rember when we used to dream of having pictures on our computers. I keep hopeing for more challenging play but I have to admit lately its seams the trend is dumer and dumer games.
5 attacks a potion slot and elite skill is going to get boaringly repetitive very fast.
Walking around spamming e thousands of times at boxes etc is going to hurt our hands.
EVERYTHING in the eso world is kinda washed out dul brown looking.
Zenimax, hun, if u make a dumbed down, simple, repetive, slow moving game and charge a monthly fee for and have a cash shop and charge 80 dollars for people to try it, it is not going to last in the mmo market.
The charcter models don't look sexy or strong and the armour looks horrable and bland.
Combat is deeper then one would expect... it really shines in group situations and PvP.... and please tell me what MMO has really fun solo combat?
You missed on those 5 attacks... having 18 different attacks to do DPS in a rotation does not give combat more depth then having a single attack that does DPS... in ESO all your 12 hotbar buttons have their own reason and function... and you truely meed to make choices based on what happens in the game ... and not repeat the same rotation time and time again just to do DPS, give moer healing or keep agro.. and keep in mind that in a game like EQ... people only had how many skills? And we loved it all...
So you dont like an active realtime combat system because it hurts your hands... good point... i just dont agree, get a good position behind your PC and relax..
So you prefer bright colorfull cartoonish graphics.... above the semi realistic ESO graphics... just get out of your lazy chair and walk intoo mother natures garden and see how much dull brown there is...
No they did not make a dumbed down simple game... you just dont see or dont agree the challenges ..
The character models are great.. (true, you can still not make fat toons or really beefy conan toons... but the models are realistic and there is enough sliders and such to make a toon to your liking that looks different from all others..
And if you only would have spend some time, you would have found that allready on the character creation tab there is an option to show veteran armors on your character, and these veteran armors look great... By level 7 some people got an armor piece from the queen that allready looked stunning... From the armor we saw a few months ago that just looked like it was painted ontoo the body, nothing is left... things got vastly improved...
I have been playing MMOs since the releae of good old EQ... and i actually love the direction current day MMO´s are taking... but then i love a good story... but most of all, i just love MMO´s that feel different from all those that i played before... and thats where ESO is doing a very good job.. It feels like ESO... Not like any MMo i played before, and not like Skyrim either... it feels like ESO and i liked what i see... and with over 500 hours of stories, 16 great dungeons, awesome PvP and even endgame adventure sones... and more freedom to build my own character then any other MMO- I think i am set for a great deal of fun... and if it only lasts for a few months, even then it was worth its money...
How can an oldtimer like you complain about the monthly subs and costs, as we have allways been paying for these box prices and these subs...really... i still pay as much for a sub as i did 15 years ago... and everything else in this big bad world got way more expensive..
I'm an older gamer and a Game Designer, so amen to this.. There is no way he can be an older gamer with this comment. So I agree with you... No idea what his deal is.. Maybe MMO's aren't for him and he needs a cheaper hobby?? Maybe paper air planes?
I prefer hotbar combat but wasn't expecting anything else from ESO. It's a game designed to appeal to console gamers and Skyrim fans. Of course it's more twitch-based than a traditional MMO. I don't know why the OP would expect anything different.
I think action combat takes plenty of skill. I just don't enjoy it as much as tab target combat. The only combat I'll really call "bad" is stuff like Neverwinter where they just give you skills based on your class and you have very limited choice of how to change them. Now that is "dumbed down", not ESO or GW2.
By the love of GOD, I don't ever want ot go back to this mess lol, no thanks i'm fine with my 5 + 3 mouse attacks.
LMAO, I don't miss this. Maybe this is what some of these posters were looking for. If that's the case, then they wont like ESO in the least and should move along.
Acolytes Gaming (forums.acolytesgaming.com)
Sheep or Shepard- Make up your own damn mind.
It is true, the older you get, the less patience you have for those who watch a Youtube video and from that believe they know it all.
By the love of GOD, I don't ever want ot go back to this mess lol, no thanks i'm fine with my 5 + 3 mouse attacks.
LMAO, I don't miss this. Maybe this is what some of these posters were looking for. If that's the case, then they wont like ESO in the least and should move along.
you all sem to be mising my point. its not that i miss this, cause i dont.
but tell me something ave you ever taken up a martial style, most martial artist know dozen of technics, and while it is true they ahve faverite ones to use, that dousnt mean they limit themselves to only useing 5 at a time, learning something new dosunt mean you ahve to give up on useing old knowledge, so why is it i have to limit myself to 5 ailities when i ccna easly learn 20 or more.
why must i be constrained but told i ave choice.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
By the love of GOD, I don't ever want ot go back to this mess lol, no thanks i'm fine with my 5 + 3 mouse attacks.
Now that's a real game. lol
Both styles have their pros and cons though. Having access to many abilities at the same time can theoretically increase the skill and knowledge level required to play the game effectively, provided that those abilities are unique and serve a purpose. This is because the content designers can count on you having access to all those abilities at once and can build situations around that. On the other hand having less abilities forces you to make a more difficult choice on what you want to have access to at any given time. This can lead to a greater diversity of play styles, but the challenge for the designers is that they have to make the content so that almost any build can succeed. Both models can work and be fun to play, it just depends on your preference or mood. I'm not a game designer though, so I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it.
ESO system is fine, in fact it is what MMOs need to move forward. It is far from perfect and collision detection if awful, but it is much more involved than something like GW2 or TSW. There is no auto attack, all classes have block and dodge, there is no baseline GCD and all classes can play all roles. More buttons do nothing but create clutter and cause you to perform boring endless rotations. They just need to improve the collision and refine the timing of blocks/melee attacks as currently it takes too long to swing after blocks. A counter attack for perfect timing on parry/block such as in Witcher 2 would also go a long way. Action hybrid such as Tera presents a much higher skill cap for an MMO.
How many of your ranged attacks and abilities require a target before you can use them?
How many of your ranged attacks and abilities DON'T auto home?
Sadly it's nothing like a shooter, just more of the same old same old.
I am so happy to see this issue brought up because i have searched high and low for a discussion on this. I don't know what this system is called but i am not happy one bit.
Ive been wanting to comment on this are we allowed to talk about it (nda)?
I was extremely disappointed minutes into game when a mob cast magic at me, i dodged, and the magic literally turned 90 degrees followed me and hit me. I sat there for a minute after killing the creature while my mind processed my disappointment.
Then you might have stopped playing each and every Tab based MMO as well. I cannot understand how people can come up with the auto lock argument everytime when MMOs have been doing this for all eternity. Melee combat has no lock and is full free form. Ranged combat requires it and it has. Only other alternative would be to make all ranged attacks huge AoEs like Wildstar. Even Tera uses auto target detection on some ranged attacks while rest are AoEs. The auto attacks without locks are instant and just high speed projectiles.
I see what you are saying, and theres nothing wrong with tab targeting games. I thought ESO wasn't though.
"point in that direction" for 100% accuracy ranged play (not just magic, arrows too) ruins the fun a bit.
Elegance is harder than complexity. Far far far harder
Complexity is a crutch for poor designers.
True this.
Anyone ever watch one of those videos on Youtube where Jim Lee draws and inks an insanely rad picture of Batman in like 5 minutes? And then you realize you can't draw a stick-person? And then you realize he made it look so effortless? It's because he's a master.
Elegant simplicity is the mark of a master crafter.
I'm not saying this game is perfect. What I'm saying is that the more simple it becomes and still retails functionality - the more work by masters actually went into it.
TESO is a great game. You can't please everyone. Some people are just going to have to be mad about it or try to change. It's that simple.
i understand people arguments for less abilities but, i ahve a major issue with it.
if the game gives me 15 abilities each of which are still usefull to me i would like the option to use those abilites when i want to. giveing me said 15 abilities ( im useing a general number here just for reference) but says i can only use 5 or even 10 with weapon swapping still means there are 5 i cant use, THAT PISSES ME OFF.
im sorry but if you wanted me to only be able to use a set number of abilites then only GIVE me a set number of abilites that i can actully learn. im sick of games that go you can have 100 diffrent abilites learned by your charecter but you can only use 5 of them i hated it in guild wars and i still hate it here.
so to make it simple if i have a abilit learned on a charecter i should be able to use it whenever i want. if the game dousnt want that kind of thing dont let me learn so many abilites then block it behind limited hotbat slots. i fial to understand why people are cool with this its the dumbest thing i ever heard.
I don't think all of the other players would be willing to accept a smaller ability pool because you're unable to decide which skills you want. One thing that's always bothered me in other games is how samey my character feels compared to any other character of the same class. In line with that, even in games with different skill trees my characters all play pretty much the same way all the time, this gets dull. ESO's solution is one way to allow players to differentiate themselves from others based on the choices they've made, and also allows you to change up your own play style and get a different experience from the same character. It's worked thus far for me.
While gear gets better in lightspeed ,mouses and keyboards are highly marcoable and such these days.
Same time they produce games for tiny fingers and joystick.
One has nothing to do with the other.
Peripheral makers make tools for gamers to choose how they want to play. Game developers develop games for gamers. Are you saying the devs should only be making games that need all your finger and toes, another friends fingers and toes, a cheetah on a treadmill, a 24 pack of Redbull, a nuclear core instead of a CPU, and an NFL cheer leading squad?
:P
To the OP....
ESO is made as an online version of the TES franchise. None of which had hot bars. The addeed one to make it more MMO friendly. But it HAS to be a very, small part of combat and still feel like an ES game. Plain and simple.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
By the love of GOD, I don't ever want ot go back to this mess lol, no thanks i'm fine with my 5 + 3 mouse attacks.
LMAO, I don't miss this. Maybe this is what some of these posters were looking for. If that's the case, then they wont like ESO in the least and should move along.
you all sem to be mising my point. its not that i miss this, cause i dont.
but tell me something ave you ever taken up a martial style, most martial artist know dozen of technics, and while it is true they ahve faverite ones to use, that dousnt mean they limit themselves to only useing 5 at a time, learning something new dosunt mean you ahve to give up on useing old knowledge, so why is it i have to limit myself to 5 ailities when i ccna easly learn 20 or more.
why must i be constrained but told i ave choice.
You are clearly missing the point. Having endless hotbar slots to spam skills from is not a choice, it's just more options. A choice is deciding if you need two knock back skills or just one and a AoE root, morphing a skill to hit two targets or picking up a passive armor ability. Since every class can learn practically every ability, there needs to be restrictions put in place. If not, everyone will just end up with 30 key binds like in wow with no original builds or creativity. RPGs are about building a character, that process only happens by making tough choices.
By the love of GOD, I don't ever want ot go back to this mess lol, no thanks i'm fine with my 5 + 3 mouse attacks.
LMAO, I don't miss this. Maybe this is what some of these posters were looking for. If that's the case, then they wont like ESO in the least and should move along.
you all sem to be mising my point. its not that i miss this, cause i dont.
but tell me something ave you ever taken up a martial style, most martial artist know dozen of technics, and while it is true they ahve faverite ones to use, that dousnt mean they limit themselves to only useing 5 at a time, learning something new dosunt mean you ahve to give up on useing old knowledge, so why is it i have to limit myself to 5 ailities when i ccna easly learn 20 or more.
why must i be constrained but told i ave choice.
You are clearly missing the point. Having endless hotbar slots to spam skills from is not a choice, it's just more options. A choice is deciding if you need two knock back skills or just one and a AoE root, morphing a skill to hit two targets or picking up a passive armor ability. Since every class can learn practically every ability, there needs to be restrictions put in place. If not, everyone will just end up with 30 key binds like in wow with no original builds or creativity. RPGs are about building a character, that process only happens by making tough choices.
Well said.
We (gamers I mean) spent lats few years asking for a game where we can customize our character, now we have one and still we're unhappy :-)
Other games might have dozens more skills to fill your bar but how many of those skills are actually used? Taking WoW as an example, hunters pretty much use 9-10 shots in a typical boss fight, even less on trash, same with paladins. Death knghts (frost) use even less!
Having a limited amount of slots isnt a bad thing as long as the skills you can choose from are all viable, you just may have to think about how you spec and play abit, unfortunately that seems to be difficult for some....
I'm begging all new games coming out to please, PLEASE, stop the damn trend of pinning people down to 5 abilities.
And NO, that does not mean I'm in favour of 50 abilities where you don't use 30 of them. But what people forget is that your game doesn't suddenly become more interesting if you restrict people to a very small number of abilities either.
It's the mechanics behind those abilities and the strategies that you can devise with them that make your gameplay interesting.
--> Let's take a look at Age of Wushu's martial sets, the Wudang breeze sword set for example:
1) Buff which stacks a special kind of "Breeze Qi" up to 3 times when you parry an attack
2) Basic attack which deals limited damage but puts a debuff on enemies that damages them when they try to run away using lightness (dodge) skills.
3) Parry break which knocks the enemy down and inflicts the "Foul Qi" debuff if successful.
4) AOE move, can knock enemies down. If cast in the air it is instant and has more hits, but only has a 50% chance of knocking down. If cast on the ground it has only one hit and a 3 seconds cast time but a 100% chance of knocking an enemy down. Every stack of the "Breeze Qi" buff reduces the ground cast time by 1/3 and increases the knock down chance. Enemies that are knocked down receive the "Foul Qi" state.
5) Ranged line AOE. Deals more damage for every stack of "Breeze Qi" on you. Enemies who are hit by this attack while afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state are unable to parry for 3 seconds.
6) Ranged rage move. Hits more times when cast in the air. Deals more damage to enemies while they are afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state.
There you have it folks, only 6 abilities but each of them interacts with the others in a unique way. Each of those is specifically tailored for that set and you can devise multiple strategies around them. Even more so because the game in question even allows you to tailor combos later on, cancelling the cast time or animation on certain moves.
And if you discover more skillsets, you can switch in between them to cover your weaknesses. All the while you will never need to use more than 5-7 abilities coupled with your F -keys to switch between sets. So YOU make the choice whether you want to master a few sets completely or go for a large amount of sets to cover all your weaknesses, the devs don't make it for you.
That should be the goal.
However, most of the games that forcefully pin you down to a limited amount of abilities don't even attempt to create interaction between the abilities. They just force you to pick a small number out of a big pool of unappealing stuff and call that "making an interesting choice".
The result is a combat system that is barely more engaging than your average hack & slash. And I regret to say that ESO is not an exception to that at all.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I'm begging all new games coming out to please, PLEASE, stop the damn trend of pinning people down to 5 abilities.
And NO, that does not mean I'm in favour of 50 abilities where you don't use 30 of them. But what people forget is that your game doesn't suddenly become more interesting if you restrict people to a very small number of abilities either.
It's the mechanics behind those abilities and the strategies that you can devise with them that make your gameplay interesting.
--> Let's take a look at Age of Wushu's martial sets, the Wudang breeze sword set for example:
1) Buff which stacks a special kind of "Breeze Qi" up to 3 times when you parry an attack
2) Basic attack which deals limited damage but puts a debuff on enemies that damages them when they try to run away using lightness (dodge) skills.
3) Parry break which knocks the enemy down and inflicts the "Foul Qi" debuff if successful.
4) AOE move, can knock enemies down. If cast in the air it is instant and has more hits, but only has a 50% chance of knocking down. If cast on the ground it has only one hit and a 3 seconds cast time but a 100% chance of knocking an enemy down. Every stack of the "Breeze Qi" buff reduces the ground cast time by 1/3 and increases the knock down chance. Enemies that are knocked down receive the "Foul Qi" state.
5) Ranged line AOE. Deals more damage for every stack of "Breeze Qi" on you. Enemies who are hit by this attack while afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state are unable to parry for 3 seconds.
6) Ranged rage move. Hits more times when cast in the air. Deals more damage to enemies while they are afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state.
There you have it folks, only 6 abilities but each of them interacts with the others in a unique way. Each of those is specifically tailored for that set and you can devise multiple strategies around them. Even more so because the game in question even allows you to tailor combos later on, cancelling the cast time or animation on certain moves.
And if you discover more skillsets, you can switch in between them to cover your weaknesses. All the while you will never need to use more than 5-7 abilities coupled with your F -keys to switch between sets. So YOU make the choice whether you want to master a few sets completely or go for a large amount of sets to cover all your weaknesses, the devs don't make it for you.
That should be the goal.
However, most of the games that forcefully pin you down to a limited amount of abilities don't even attempt to create interaction between the abilities. They just force you to pick a small number out of a big pool of unappealing stuff and call that "making an interesting choice".
The result is a combat system that is barely more engaging than your average hack & slash. And I regret to say that ESO is not an exception to that at all.
Agree. This is the best approach to not having too many skills but making those few that more interesting.
The problem is that many people here see the world in balck/white. It's either 30, 40, 50... abilities or 5. To them there is nothing in between.
ESO's combat system is, imo, a simple copay/paste from GW2. Even down to combos which are supposedly useful only with another player. Which means that while playing solo you have almost no way to test them, to get better with them. And since many players play solo a lot, it just means that combos, which are added to enrich our experience in combat, are rarely used and thus not appreciated enough.
I seriously hope ESO will change that, but according to other sources, it works the same as GW2's combo system does.
Imo, 5 skill system is the result of multi platform design. How can you expect box or station players to use 15, 20 abilities when their stick doesn't have so many buttons? Well change the system so even those that can use so many skills, can't. And then let those users find an excuse for such a design choice.
Comments
Combat is deeper then one would expect... it really shines in group situations and PvP.... and please tell me what MMO has really fun solo combat?
You missed on those 5 attacks... having 18 different attacks to do DPS in a rotation does not give combat more depth then having a single attack that does DPS... in ESO all your 12 hotbar buttons have their own reason and function... and you truely meed to make choices based on what happens in the game ... and not repeat the same rotation time and time again just to do DPS, give moer healing or keep agro.. and keep in mind that in a game like EQ... people only had how many skills? And we loved it all...
So you dont like an active realtime combat system because it hurts your hands... good point... i just dont agree, get a good position behind your PC and relax..
So you prefer bright colorfull cartoonish graphics.... above the semi realistic ESO graphics... just get out of your lazy chair and walk intoo mother natures garden and see how much dull brown there is...
No they did not make a dumbed down simple game... you just dont see or dont agree the challenges ..
The character models are great.. (true, you can still not make fat toons or really beefy conan toons... but the models are realistic and there is enough sliders and such to make a toon to your liking that looks different from all others..
And if you only would have spend some time, you would have found that allready on the character creation tab there is an option to show veteran armors on your character, and these veteran armors look great... By level 7 some people got an armor piece from the queen that allready looked stunning... From the armor we saw a few months ago that just looked like it was painted ontoo the body, nothing is left... things got vastly improved...
I have been playing MMOs since the releae of good old EQ... and i actually love the direction current day MMO´s are taking... but then i love a good story... but most of all, i just love MMO´s that feel different from all those that i played before... and thats where ESO is doing a very good job.. It feels like ESO... Not like any MMo i played before, and not like Skyrim either... it feels like ESO and i liked what i see... and with over 500 hours of stories, 16 great dungeons, awesome PvP and even endgame adventure sones... and more freedom to build my own character then any other MMO- I think i am set for a great deal of fun... and if it only lasts for a few months, even then it was worth its money...
How can an oldtimer like you complain about the monthly subs and costs, as we have allways been paying for these box prices and these subs...really... i still pay as much for a sub as i did 15 years ago... and everything else in this big bad world got way more expensive..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Says a person who has never designed a game before, don't make me laugh at you to..
I think you misapprehend the nature of mathematical elegance and why it should be the paramount design goal.
But I changed my mind on one thing; go ahead and talk about NP-Hard problem. I'd like to see you try.
This is not Real life. This is a game and this is a gaming forum. And in every Tab based MMO, the targets get locked just from clicking on them. Here atleast there is a soft lock to do. And just like in Tab based MMOs, the attack will not go off if you are not in the field of view.
And ffs, we are talking about magic here. If i could conjure up magic then i will be able to lock it to you.
What I got out of this post was, OMG, its not free so i'm not playing... Wild star I tested that, don't make me laugh at the cartoony mess. If you think thats good, you got to be blind. Nothing to do??? ROFL, I played this game for 6 months and yet to finish everything it has to offer, so i'm confused.. The pricing Lets see games since 2004, WOW 15 a month , its ten years later, oh the same price. 60 for the box for WOW... Guess what the same price for this game... I'm confused were you gamers get this its to much money.. You have this free to play attitude, and its getting annoying, I want it back to the old days when we have all the subs back!!!!
This will drive out the people who ruin communitys!! This is a fact.
I'm an older gamer and a Game Designer, so amen to this.. There is no way he can be an older gamer with this comment. So I agree with you... No idea what his deal is.. Maybe MMO's aren't for him and he needs a cheaper hobby?? Maybe paper air planes?
Misquoted, sorry.
Acolytes Gaming (forums.acolytesgaming.com)
Sheep or Shepard- Make up your own damn mind.
It is true, the older you get, the less patience you have for those who watch a Youtube video and from that believe they know it all.
I prefer hotbar combat but wasn't expecting anything else from ESO. It's a game designed to appeal to console gamers and Skyrim fans. Of course it's more twitch-based than a traditional MMO. I don't know why the OP would expect anything different.
I think action combat takes plenty of skill. I just don't enjoy it as much as tab target combat. The only combat I'll really call "bad" is stuff like Neverwinter where they just give you skills based on your class and you have very limited choice of how to change them. Now that is "dumbed down", not ESO or GW2.
By the love of GOD, I don't ever want ot go back to this mess lol, no thanks i'm fine with my 5 + 3 mouse attacks.
LMAO, I don't miss this. Maybe this is what some of these posters were looking for. If that's the case, then they wont like ESO in the least and should move along.
Acolytes Gaming (forums.acolytesgaming.com)
Sheep or Shepard- Make up your own damn mind.
It is true, the older you get, the less patience you have for those who watch a Youtube video and from that believe they know it all.
you all sem to be mising my point. its not that i miss this, cause i dont.
but tell me something ave you ever taken up a martial style, most martial artist know dozen of technics, and while it is true they ahve faverite ones to use, that dousnt mean they limit themselves to only useing 5 at a time, learning something new dosunt mean you ahve to give up on useing old knowledge, so why is it i have to limit myself to 5 ailities when i ccna easly learn 20 or more.
why must i be constrained but told i ave choice.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Now that's a real game. lol
Both styles have their pros and cons though. Having access to many abilities at the same time can theoretically increase the skill and knowledge level required to play the game effectively, provided that those abilities are unique and serve a purpose. This is because the content designers can count on you having access to all those abilities at once and can build situations around that. On the other hand having less abilities forces you to make a more difficult choice on what you want to have access to at any given time. This can lead to a greater diversity of play styles, but the challenge for the designers is that they have to make the content so that almost any build can succeed. Both models can work and be fun to play, it just depends on your preference or mood. I'm not a game designer though, so I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it.
OP's name is Stanley...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy8iIhrR42o&t=3m15s
I see what you are saying, and theres nothing wrong with tab targeting games. I thought ESO wasn't though.
"point in that direction" for 100% accuracy ranged play (not just magic, arrows too) ruins the fun a bit.
True this.
Anyone ever watch one of those videos on Youtube where Jim Lee draws and inks an insanely rad picture of Batman in like 5 minutes? And then you realize you can't draw a stick-person? And then you realize he made it look so effortless? It's because he's a master.
Elegant simplicity is the mark of a master crafter.
I'm not saying this game is perfect. What I'm saying is that the more simple it becomes and still retails functionality - the more work by masters actually went into it.
TESO is a great game. You can't please everyone. Some people are just going to have to be mad about it or try to change. It's that simple.
I don't think all of the other players would be willing to accept a smaller ability pool because you're unable to decide which skills you want. One thing that's always bothered me in other games is how samey my character feels compared to any other character of the same class. In line with that, even in games with different skill trees my characters all play pretty much the same way all the time, this gets dull. ESO's solution is one way to allow players to differentiate themselves from others based on the choices they've made, and also allows you to change up your own play style and get a different experience from the same character. It's worked thus far for me.
But why ?
While gear gets better in lightspeed ,mouses and keyboards are highly marcoable and such these days.
Same time they produce games for tiny fingers and joystick.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
One has nothing to do with the other.
Peripheral makers make tools for gamers to choose how they want to play. Game developers develop games for gamers. Are you saying the devs should only be making games that need all your finger and toes, another friends fingers and toes, a cheetah on a treadmill, a 24 pack of Redbull, a nuclear core instead of a CPU, and an NFL cheer leading squad?
:P
To the OP....
ESO is made as an online version of the TES franchise. None of which had hot bars. The addeed one to make it more MMO friendly. But it HAS to be a very, small part of combat and still feel like an ES game. Plain and simple.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
You are clearly missing the point. Having endless hotbar slots to spam skills from is not a choice, it's just more options. A choice is deciding if you need two knock back skills or just one and a AoE root, morphing a skill to hit two targets or picking up a passive armor ability. Since every class can learn practically every ability, there needs to be restrictions put in place. If not, everyone will just end up with 30 key binds like in wow with no original builds or creativity. RPGs are about building a character, that process only happens by making tough choices.
Well said.
We (gamers I mean) spent lats few years asking for a game where we can customize our character, now we have one and still we're unhappy :-)
Other games might have dozens more skills to fill your bar but how many of those skills are actually used? Taking WoW as an example, hunters pretty much use 9-10 shots in a typical boss fight, even less on trash, same with paladins. Death knghts (frost) use even less!
Having a limited amount of slots isnt a bad thing as long as the skills you can choose from are all viable, you just may have to think about how you spec and play abit, unfortunately that seems to be difficult for some....
I'm begging all new games coming out to please, PLEASE, stop the damn trend of pinning people down to 5 abilities.
And NO, that does not mean I'm in favour of 50 abilities where you don't use 30 of them. But what people forget is that your game doesn't suddenly become more interesting if you restrict people to a very small number of abilities either.
It's the mechanics behind those abilities and the strategies that you can devise with them that make your gameplay interesting.
--> Let's take a look at Age of Wushu's martial sets, the Wudang breeze sword set for example:
1) Buff which stacks a special kind of "Breeze Qi" up to 3 times when you parry an attack
2) Basic attack which deals limited damage but puts a debuff on enemies that damages them when they try to run away using lightness (dodge) skills.
3) Parry break which knocks the enemy down and inflicts the "Foul Qi" debuff if successful.
4) AOE move, can knock enemies down. If cast in the air it is instant and has more hits, but only has a 50% chance of knocking down. If cast on the ground it has only one hit and a 3 seconds cast time but a 100% chance of knocking an enemy down. Every stack of the "Breeze Qi" buff reduces the ground cast time by 1/3 and increases the knock down chance. Enemies that are knocked down receive the "Foul Qi" state.
5) Ranged line AOE. Deals more damage for every stack of "Breeze Qi" on you. Enemies who are hit by this attack while afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state are unable to parry for 3 seconds.
6) Ranged rage move. Hits more times when cast in the air. Deals more damage to enemies while they are afflicted by the "Foul Qi" state.
There you have it folks, only 6 abilities but each of them interacts with the others in a unique way. Each of those is specifically tailored for that set and you can devise multiple strategies around them. Even more so because the game in question even allows you to tailor combos later on, cancelling the cast time or animation on certain moves.
And if you discover more skillsets, you can switch in between them to cover your weaknesses. All the while you will never need to use more than 5-7 abilities coupled with your F -keys to switch between sets. So YOU make the choice whether you want to master a few sets completely or go for a large amount of sets to cover all your weaknesses, the devs don't make it for you.
That should be the goal.
However, most of the games that forcefully pin you down to a limited amount of abilities don't even attempt to create interaction between the abilities. They just force you to pick a small number out of a big pool of unappealing stuff and call that "making an interesting choice".
The result is a combat system that is barely more engaging than your average hack & slash. And I regret to say that ESO is not an exception to that at all.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Agree. This is the best approach to not having too many skills but making those few that more interesting.
The problem is that many people here see the world in balck/white. It's either 30, 40, 50... abilities or 5. To them there is nothing in between.
ESO's combat system is, imo, a simple copay/paste from GW2. Even down to combos which are supposedly useful only with another player. Which means that while playing solo you have almost no way to test them, to get better with them. And since many players play solo a lot, it just means that combos, which are added to enrich our experience in combat, are rarely used and thus not appreciated enough.
I seriously hope ESO will change that, but according to other sources, it works the same as GW2's combo system does.
Imo, 5 skill system is the result of multi platform design. How can you expect box or station players to use 15, 20 abilities when their stick doesn't have so many buttons? Well change the system so even those that can use so many skills, can't. And then let those users find an excuse for such a design choice.