'But I will say that there’s no heft to the argument that giving pre-orders the ability to choose any race and class is a “cash grab”. If it matters that much to a player to get in on that perk, it’s likely they’re the sort who would want to pre-order. Those who don’t like the idea, are the folks who don’t want to pre-order for the perk.'
As soon as I read the above quotation I instantly lost any and all respect for the rest of the content of your article. Making a specific feature exclusive to pre-orders, a feature highly requested by the players, especially the Elder Scrolls faction, only 2 months before launch of the game, and with no information leading up to this revelation, only to increase initial sale of boxes is nothing but a cash grab! Making 'defection' a paid for commodity instead of an achieveable feature within the game eliminates the very idea of it being defection.. There's no story to it other than 'I paid for it, thus I can'.
And here's the kicker, the 'the imperials think us all lawless beasts, I am proof of their ignorance'-moment: I like the idea! As an Elder Scrolls fan I can only commend Zenimax for providing this feature! Yet, I will not pre-order because I do not think that business of this kind is acceptable in the MMORPG genre, at least not in the subscription part of it. A developer should not charge extra for a highly sought after feature, requested by a large portion of his custumers, when he decides to include it. I think it is a kick in the face to those who supported the game, who requested this feature because they believed it would help the game in the future.
So I like the idea. But I will not pre-purchase the game. Seems to me that your statements are not valid. In fact, I found them to be very generalised and without proper evidence. I think there's ample og evidence and valid arguments for this pre-order perk to be nothing but a cash-grab and I'm ashamed that a qualified writer such as yourself resorts to such measures and downgrades valid concerns to be nothing but 'crying over a bit of spilt milk'. Remember, we're not doing it to damage the game. We're doing it because we believe it's in the best interest of the game. We want it to succeed. But we also want this to be a fair exchange.
Excellent post, completely agree.
The only thing I would add is that only respect was lost for the article but also for it's writer.
If Bill had any backbone he wouldn't see things he doesn't condone at all as viable alternatives for an issue.
Either pre-ordering, submitting the code and then cancelling is a viable condoned alternative that you personally support or it's not an alternative at all and does not qualify as a solution. Pick one, trying to have them both is sheer hypocrisy.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
If the factions they've devised made any sort of sense I think the people complaining would have some sort of point, but they don't. It makes as much sense for an orc to be hanging out with Bosmer, Altmer and Khajit as it does for them to be working with Bretons and Redguards, two peoples who have been constantly at war with the orcs since forever. Every ES game has had peoples of all races living in the setting of that game.
About faction pride, how am I supposed to have pride in a faction when Zenimax picked my faction for me? Racial locks work in something like DAoC because it was a new IP. You picked a faction which interested you and then picked a race within it. If you chose your faction because of a certain race then at least you didn't have baggage associated with decades of previous titles and lore in the series. I pretty much only play Bosmer in Elder Scrolls games and have done so for over a decade. Does this mean I should be in the Aldmeri Dominion because Zenimax said so? Fuck the Aldmeri Dominion. Give me the chance to pick my own faction and I'll have a lot more pride then if I were shoved into one.
Faction locks were bullshit from the start... In any previous ES game you were never limited by region. You can be a Khajit in Skyrim or any race for that matter.
That's fine if you're playing an Elder Scrolls game and, yes, Elder Scrolls is in the title, but this is a multiplayer version. The factions are there for no other reason than PvP, it's to quickly show who is on what side. If you have a race from another faction on your faction, then it immediately makes PvP more awkward, as you're having to double check every time you see someone.
Take, for example, a game like Counterstrike. You're playing on the side of the SWAT team (can't remember the actual sides) going against the Terrorists. You're fighting along and see another member of the SWAT team, which you think is a safe target. Seconds later and you're dead - that member has moved to the side of the Terrorists. See the problem?
Whats your point? Last I checked this WAS an Elder Scrolls game, the "O" on the back does not change this fact. You can still "Pledge to a faction" (for the sake of PvP) and it will not be game or lore breaking... As a matter of fact, this is no different than in Skyrim for example where you are eventually faced with choices such as Stormcloaks and Imperial, You the player can choose to join one or none or just kill everyone...
Do people really think they would be able to identify enemies by what race they are? This is such a joke, In the split second you take to analyze to see if I am a friendly or not I will be tearing your face off... As others mentioned Red=Dead... Also consider the game supports add-ons... I am sure there will be a ton of add ons for PvP so there will be NO questions as to who is your enemy or not.
Plus it is not like you can't learn other factions armor types... I could be a Nord wearing a Khajit (which has a very distinct look to it) helm.
As I said prior, faction locking severely limits each of the factions racial abilities toward certain roles... Some are tank heavy like EP and some are DPS heavy like AD... If they wanted to keep the factions locks they should just do away with racial abilities all together.
I get that people are pissed off because of the pre order bit about faction lock... But hey, suits are gunna suit...
Excuse me, but what "defectors" are you talking about? Defector would mean, that all the players that play a race other than the three assigned to a particular alliance, have been conscripted soldiers of a different alliance before. And that's the issue: Nobody, no matter what alliance you pick, starts as a loyal soldier of a faction.
In case of the AD starter zone you even pretend at first to belong to the AD. So... unless they give you a specific background and tell you that you have always been a soldier for your faction, there won't be any defectors. Just a culturally and racially diverse population within a territory, that chooses to support one of the three ideologies.
What if my Dark Elf character is born and raised or an orphan raised in Darggerfall, will I still be considered defector because of my race?
I may be remembering incorrectly, but I am pretty sure the starter zone establishes that your character has no memory of his life prior to the start of the game. That said, the player character can't be a "defector" because nothing in the game establishes that he/she was loyal to some particular faction prior to the game's start.
Originally posted by evilastro It should have been a betrayal quest line in the game proper. Not emotional blackmail to force players to become early adopters.
That wouldn't make sense given the game's narrative structure. The character doesn't choose his faction, he is tossed to a random island by magic, and joins the faction which happens to be in charge of that island. There is no narrative reason that it should be impossible for a Dunmer to end up on Stros M'kai.
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
What's with all the defending of ESO on this site? I'm sorry, but the 'any race any alliance' is not a good idea. You can make any excuse for it, anyone can go anywhere, sure, an orc might be raised differently, but this is a game we're talking about and the races and alliances are in place for a reason. If the races were guidelines, if they said the preferred race for the alliances were X, Y and Z, then fine, but they're not, they're there to differentiate the alliances.
Now you can preorder and throw the alliances all out of whack, there's no immediate difference between the three alliances, anyone can belong to anything, and, to me, that breaks the entire point of splitting them up in the first place.
The alliances are political and cultural, not racial. The Ebonheart Pact doesn't suddenly lose all of it's culture and beliefs just because a few Orcs join it, or the Aldmeri Dominion stop being Elven Supremacists just because some Nords decide to fight for them.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Neither the Imprials behind the paywall nor the faction turncoats are a big issue for me. Imperials are just another (boring) human race. *shrug* And changing faction existed in EQ2 via the betrayal quest.
BUT: that is how I would have want to see it handled. Instead of a preorder bonus, demand a difficult questline. Betraying should not be an easy thing, and certainly not something handed to you for cash.
Generally I don't find it ok, that a game costing already 60 dollars PLUS monthly fee adds stuff behind another paywall. I thought the 15 dollar per months argument is "all inclusive", like a flatrate gaming. Apprently some people are more special. So while it no biggie for me, both decisions do leave a bad taste. It sounds so much like a "suits" decisions which overrides any gaming logic.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Neither the Imprials behind the paywall nor the faction turncoats are a big issue for me. Imperials are just another (boring) human race. *shrug* And changing faction existed in EQ2 via the betrayal quest.
BUT: that is how I would have want to see it handled. Instead of a preorder bonus, demand a difficult questline. Betraying should not be an easy thing, and certainly not something handed to you for cash.
Again, there is no betraying taking place. Your character is a tabula rasa, he has no past loyalties to reject.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Faction locks were bullshit from the start... In any previous ES game you were never limited by region. You can be a Khajit in Skyrim or any race for that matter.
That's fine if you're playing an Elder Scrolls game and, yes, Elder Scrolls is in the title, but this is a multiplayer version. The factions are there for no other reason than PvP, it's to quickly show who is on what side. If you have a race from another faction on your faction, then it immediately makes PvP more awkward, as you're having to double check every time you see someone.
Take, for example, a game like Counterstrike. You're playing on the side of the SWAT team (can't remember the actual sides) going against the Terrorists. You're fighting along and see another member of the SWAT team, which you think is a safe target. Seconds later and you're dead - that member has moved to the side of the Terrorists. See the problem?
Clearly you have not played the PvP, there is absolutely no way to tell races apart in ESO except for icons over heads and the occasional tail. When everyone is geared up they all look the same so this is a moot point. You're not dealing with huge size differences between races that make them stand out like a sore thumb like in DAOC. There are no big trolls and no tiny gnomes.
Having all races playable on all factions was definately the right decision, doing it this late by going against everything they said and their game mechanics is disgraceful. Don't get me wrong, I was super excited about the Imperial race through the Imperial Edition since that's the only race I play in the rpg's.
I just can't help but agree with some points made by the nay-sayers of how this is either a cash grab or just a large gameplay mistake made by the developers with a half-assed fix several months before launch.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Structure has benefits. Structure comes with boundaries. Boundaries have pros and cons. Old school MMOs imposed a lot of structure. The greatest PvP in the history of MMOs, DAoC, imposed strict boundaries. This fostered a strong sense of realm pride, community, and challenge. This is the old way. The downside of the old way is it is less casual-friendly. Not everybody can do all things. You must choose a class. That class has a specific role. That class can only be chosen in a specific realm, from a specific subset of races in that realm. This is an example of a highly structured, and thus limited design. In my experience it provides more immersion, more challenge, more dedication to your class (to extract the maximum usefulness) and a stronger sense of community/pride. The flipside of this is barrier to entry. If you want the maximum cash influx IN THE SHORT TERM, you will create minimal barriers. Complete flexibility is the hallmark of the modern MMO. The result is more subscribers at launch, less boundaries, and less challenge. However, in my experience this approach becomes bland. You cannot identify strongly with anything. You are not as motivated to master your own specialization, since there is very little specialization. When everyone can be all things, it becomes empty quickly. This is the curse of the modern MMO, and I believe it is the reason they tend to die out or become F2P so quickly now. It's a catch-22...you are beholden to the shareholders to maximize paying customers up front, and flexibility is what the majority now demands, as hardcore players are the minority now. But the long-term staying power of an MMO is much increased by structure, and this comes with limits. Also: cash grab.
I would have rather seen Imperial given in all pre-orders but kept the factions locked. Will have to see how it all works out in the end. Maybe the open factions won't be as bad as I think.
Having complex lore is just too much for today's gaming generation to handle. Everyone wants to be able to do everything and if they can't they cry. I thought for once we had something that held its structure.
If you can play any race anywhere you want, then what's the fkn point of races anyway? Why not just make 1 race and call it a day? Oh, you want to play with your orc pal and have lizard scales, too damned bad. The French and the English had a helluva war during the War of Roses. French and English would kill each other if they so much as heard the other's accent. This is how REAL LIVING BEINGS WORK - they fekkeng hate the other race. You think racism was bad in the Southern states of America for a few hundred years? Imagine fantasy races.
Oh wait, you can, because the master of the fantasy tale, JRR Tolkien, reminded Hobbit viewers that Elves and the Orcs aren't going to go on adventures together. WTF is wrong with these games selling out to continuous mediocority?
faction restrictions or freedom is not against the Lore, but the fact that they locked the unlocks to a pre-order makes it an instant cash grab. Elder SCrolls dont have faction restrictions in single player games, they wanted three factions for PvP purposes so its ok. I prefer no faction restrictions myself but THE FACT that i cant do that unless i pre-order that is complete BS, Scam, Cashgrab, Greed, and nonsense.
Having complex lore is just too much for today's gaming generation to handle. Everyone wants to be able to do everything and if they can't they cry. I thought for once we had something that held its structure.
If you can play any race anywhere you want, then what's the fkn point of races anyway? Why not just make 1 race and call it a day? Oh, you want to play with your orc pal and have lizard scales, too damned bad. The French and the English had a helluva war during the War of Roses. French and English would kill each other if they so much as heard the other's accent. This is how REAL LIVING BEINGS WORK - they fekkeng hate the other race. You think racism was bad in the Southern states of America for a few hundred years? Imagine fantasy races.
Oh wait, you can, because the master of the fantasy tale, JRR Tolkien, reminded Hobbit viewers that Elves and the Orcs aren't going to go on adventures together. WTF is wrong with these games selling out to continuous mediocority?
Your argument might make sense in a different setting or a different game. The choice of race for the player character has always been narratively meaningless in Elder Scrolls games. It is one of the defining features of the series that your race doesn't impact the story, even when it probably should.
That said, there is really no reason in this game specifically for factions to be race restricted. The player character isn't choosing a faction, and because the character does not have a choice, what it would make sense for the character to choose doesn't enter the equation. He is tossed to a random island by magic, and ends up joining whichever faction happens to control the island he ends up on. It is only the player that makes a choice of faction, outside the narrative.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Having complex lore is just too much for today's gaming generation to handle. Everyone wants to be able to do everything and if they can't they cry. I thought for once we had something that held its structure.
If you can play any race anywhere you want, then what's the fkn point of races anyway? Why not just make 1 race and call it a day? Oh, you want to play with your orc pal and have lizard scales, too damned bad. The French and the English had a helluva war during the War of Roses. French and English would kill each other if they so much as heard the other's accent. This is how REAL LIVING BEINGS WORK - they fekkeng hate the other race. You think racism was bad in the Southern states of America for a few hundred years? Imagine fantasy races.
Oh wait, you can, because the master of the fantasy tale, JRR Tolkien, reminded Hobbit viewers that Elves and the Orcs aren't going to go on adventures together. WTF is wrong with these games selling out to continuous mediocority?
First off, it's not a fit with previous Elder Scrolls games....you know, the audience they are trying to market to.
Secondly, their are countless examples throughout history of different ethnic/religious/political groups allowing folks to ally, even if they were from supposedly 'enemy' factions or lineages. Japanese and American born Nisei fought (and fought well) in the American arny in WWII. Significant numbers of Germans served in the fight as well. American born or refugee, they played important roles. Reading a bit on the Russo-Finnish war of 1940, the Finns fought the Russians to a bloody standstill under a commanding general who was Russian! Northerners fought on the Southern side of the Civil War, Southerners on the Northern side. Your categorical denial is not in evidence. Because THAT's the actual way things work.
Thirdly, Tolkien may not have had orc adventurers, but D&D sure managed it. And, Tolkien showed some serious animosity going on between elves and dwarves -- but look what happened there!
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Originally posted by CazNeerg Originally posted by ElikalNeither the Imprials behind the paywall nor the faction turncoats are a big issue for me. Imperials are just another (boring) human race. *shrug* And changing faction existed in EQ2 via the betrayal quest.BUT: that is how I would have want to see it handled. Instead of a preorder bonus, demand a difficult questline. Betraying should not be an easy thing, and certainly not something handed to you for cash.
Again, there is no betraying taking place. Your character is a tabula rasa, he has no past loyalties to reject.Unless the player didn't preorder, in which case your character is locked in a faction because, uh money.
Since ESO is no longer under NDA I will tell you my opinion of Beta.
I played the first time through beta testing leveled up to level 10+ and found many bugs reported them I am sure they were fixed.
The next two Beta tests after that I expected Real Testing, Honestly give me access to whatever I want to test your game, Gear, Free max levels, etc. instead I am very limited to what I can test I barely even bother playing at all the game felt like Crap.
The Developers did not take what I told them seriously I don't feel, and honestly I think ESO is a big failure I will list my reasons why.
Factions.
Races are faction locked, instead of having a unique system where I can play Dark Elf, or Human, choose my own back-ground, my own ability advantages, I am stuck with a Faction which is pretty stupid I should have the ability to choose a faction and fight for that faction, rather than be locked into 2% Melee Damage bonus for example just because I play a Human, and so on I should be able to choose my strengths and alliance.
Instead I can't, this totally sucks.
Class Lock System.
Instead of allowing me to play a single character, max all crafts, and skills You Limit Me ! which is pretty dumb, for example I choose a mage, but choose to use a bow instead of a staff I get different weapon skills but I can't swap my class skill-set this is pretty dumb if you ask me.
Crafting
I never really tested crafting, and don't know if I can max all crafts on a single character I was hoping I could, but doubt players can.
The Game Doesn't Feel Like Elder Scrolls.
The game to me feels like Rift, or World OF Warcraft, doesn't feel like ES, or Skyrim to me.
Problem with ESO, developers don't take me seriously when I say to do something, and its sad to see a perfectly good game go down the drain, just watch the game will go F2P Before long, and honestly I am not in no hurry to buy ESO because of the developers not listening to what I said or taking me seriously at all not even a response to the feed-back left 3 times.
Lack of barbershop / Customization / Re-customization.
Over-All.
Each to their own if you have the money to waste, and don't care buy the game, but personally I am in no hurry to buy the game because I think ESO is going to be a big failure and go F2P, I have bought many games that turned out to go F2P a year or a few years later.
ESO could have been something Unique had the developers had put some real effort into the game, but if you are honestly like me and tired of games that have character Classes, and restricted character progression then perhaps you should try the following.
Dark Fall
EVE Online
. Or wait to give Black Desert / Arche Age a try.
Just don't say I didn't warn yo about ESO before you wasted $100 on a collectors edition, if the developers actually listen, and make the game sand-box based, add all the aspects that should be there on release my opinion may change, but this far in development, usually it doesn't change.
I mean if you think about it, gamers could complain about the pre order of any game, for any reason. Even if it just has cosmetic stuff. Also regardless if a company cares about gamers or not? They all are out to make money. This is a business. Even if you like a company.
You know how people lick the ground Valve walks on and loves steam? But hates Origin because it's DRM. Those gamers don't even realize Steam is DRM. Oh you can play some titles off line? Sweet, go and try to sell your games. Oh you can't? That's right. You are renting them from steam. Origin takes game returns. Steam doesn't. See my point? But EA is out to make money, offers day 1 dlc, and pre orders are junk. Oh I forgot, Valve is it this for free and doesn't offer any day 1 DLC or bad pre orders. They are gods.
This are the same people, who think, ESO, is applying the cash grab by offering a pre order race unlock. Yet will praise landmark, when people paid to get into the alpha. Like early access wasn't a cash grab? Follow the herd of popular opinion, that's right.
No need to think for yourself, it's cool to hate on ESO right now, and hump the leg of EQN/Wildstar. It's the cool thing. Hate WoW too. No need to think for yourselves. Just do what the cool kids do.
I am not suggesting all the people who hated ESO are idiots. I am saying, the people blindly hating them, not knowing anything, not playing the beta and listening to the haters are.
There is a reason companies pay people to go on the forums and hate on games. Make up stuff. These companies think gamers are entitled hotheads, without intelligence, who have lemmings syndrome. That will flame away on their fellow competitors, with just one spark, in one place.
I hope one day, gamers are better than that, but as ESO has shown, and extreme examples, of gamer writers and publishers, getting daily death threats, that their families and or they will die for doing a game wrong, or ruining something lore wise.
Gamers will never be taken seriously as a group, until blind rage, and hate becomes a extreme minority. Sure also groups have that too, but when your groups focus in say video games and not politics or something like that, it becomes more laughable.
Being denied then put behind a paywall is what is bad about it.
No one knows what will happen when the game launches it might be still free when the game is ordered or ehem cash shop.
Still this brings up another question no one seems to ask, how will Zenimax balance factions for pvp balance? Do they have a system in place or will there be one sided battles?
First off, it's not a fit with previous Elder Scrolls games....you know, the audience they are trying to market to.
Secondly, their are countless examples throughout history of different ethnic/religious/political groups allowing folks to ally, even if they were from supposedly 'enemy' factions or lineages. Japanese and American born Nisei fought (and fought well) in the American arny in WWII. Significant numbers of Germans served in the fight as well. American born or refugee, they played important roles. Reading a bit on the Russo-Finnish war of 1940, the Finns fought the Russians to a bloody standstill under a commanding general who was Russian! Northerners fought on the Southern side of the Civil War, Southerners on the Northern side. Your categorical denial is not in evidence. Because THAT's the actual way things work.
Thirdly, Tolkien may not have had orc adventurers, but D&D sure managed it. And, Tolkien showed some serious animosity going on between elves and dwarves -- but look what happened there!
How about all of the suspicion and hatred shown Japanese/Japanese-Americans who were thrown into internment camps? Some of their families had been in the US already for many generations. Is that proof that the US government/military trusted the Japanese "turncoats"? How about German-Americans having to give up their cultural identity and their language because of the wars and the suspicion they had to live under? That was the vast majority of people from those cultural/ethnic groups. You also did not mention Germans living in the UK, I noticed, which is more like what the situation in TESO would be like than the US example you made as so many Americans have German ancestry.
The other two examples you gave are not about two distinctive races going against each other (Finland has many ethnic Russians for example). It is not the same as elves, orcs, and humans in a game that publicized itself as being based on DAoC's Realm vs. Realm system where the races were quite clearly realm-locked.
Let's get back to the DAoC thing. Locked realms was a *major* aspect of the play. If Zenimax had just said that races were not locked to factions and opened this option to everyone that would be quite, quite different. The devs should not have said, even insisting multiple times, that their PvP was based on DAoC's RvR system. For me it is a case of bad advertizement and resulting disappointment. As someone who was hoping for a game with DAoC-style RvR, I was interested in this title. Now that it seems to be giving up some of the things it insisted upon, and that go against how DAoC was, and on top of it putting them behind a CE pre-order, I have just lost interest.
This are the same people, who think, ESO, is applying the cash grab by offering a pre order race unlock. Yet will praise landmark, when people paid to get into the alpha. Like early access wasn't a cash grab? Follow the herd of popular opinion, that's right.
No need to think for yourself, it's cool to hate on ESO right now, and hump the leg of EQN/Wildstar. It's the cool thing. Hate WoW too. No need to think for yourselves. Just do what the cool kids do.
I am not suggesting all the people who hated ESO are idiots. I am saying, the people blindly hating them, not knowing anything, not playing the beta and listening to the haters are.
There is a reason companies pay people to go on the forums and hate on games. Make up stuff. These companies think gamers are entitled hotheads, without intelligence, who have lemmings syndrome. That will flame away on their fellow competitors, with just one spark, in one place.
(snip)
So I, as a former DAoC player who has not beta'ed TESO, am an idiot because of the pre-order/CE shenanigans and the renegging of their original stance on faction locks? The fact that they suddenly scrapped a major aspect of DAoC RvR and still claim to have based the PvP portion of their game on DAoC makes me an idiot and hater?
I don't have to beta TESO to know that they are doing something that I dislike intensely. On the contrary, I have a brain and am not willing to fork out lots of money to a company that has changed direction and put what I would consider a primary game element in a pre-order and a CE to boot. If I were a sheeple, I would have had blind faith in this product and not questioned these moves at all. If more players were like me, questioning why we have to pull out our wallets more and more often now for these primary game elements, it would be good overall for the game industry and for us.
And furthermore, just because we disagree does not mean that I would consider YOU an idiot for having your opinion, so you should not consider me an idiot because I don't share it. You should be more respectful towards others.
Lastly, I am not paid by anyone to post my disapproval of how this game is being sold and managed, though if someone does want to pay me to post here, I am open to any offers....
omg another boring eso story,its a GAME.of course its a money grab,what else would it be.you think they want offer this later?what i did not buy the pre-order so i can never ever do this.right.its one thing to tie mounts,armour,to a pre-order but to ties aspects of the game is just stupid.
Comments
Excellent post, completely agree.
The only thing I would add is that only respect was lost for the article but also for it's writer.
If Bill had any backbone he wouldn't see things he doesn't condone at all as viable alternatives for an issue.
Either pre-ordering, submitting the code and then cancelling is a viable condoned alternative that you personally support or it's not an alternative at all and does not qualify as a solution. Pick one, trying to have them both is sheer hypocrisy.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
If the factions they've devised made any sort of sense I think the people complaining would have some sort of point, but they don't. It makes as much sense for an orc to be hanging out with Bosmer, Altmer and Khajit as it does for them to be working with Bretons and Redguards, two peoples who have been constantly at war with the orcs since forever. Every ES game has had peoples of all races living in the setting of that game.
About faction pride, how am I supposed to have pride in a faction when Zenimax picked my faction for me? Racial locks work in something like DAoC because it was a new IP. You picked a faction which interested you and then picked a race within it. If you chose your faction because of a certain race then at least you didn't have baggage associated with decades of previous titles and lore in the series. I pretty much only play Bosmer in Elder Scrolls games and have done so for over a decade. Does this mean I should be in the Aldmeri Dominion because Zenimax said so? Fuck the Aldmeri Dominion. Give me the chance to pick my own faction and I'll have a lot more pride then if I were shoved into one.
Whats your point? Last I checked this WAS an Elder Scrolls game, the "O" on the back does not change this fact. You can still "Pledge to a faction" (for the sake of PvP) and it will not be game or lore breaking... As a matter of fact, this is no different than in Skyrim for example where you are eventually faced with choices such as Stormcloaks and Imperial, You the player can choose to join one or none or just kill everyone...
Do people really think they would be able to identify enemies by what race they are? This is such a joke, In the split second you take to analyze to see if I am a friendly or not I will be tearing your face off... As others mentioned Red=Dead... Also consider the game supports add-ons... I am sure there will be a ton of add ons for PvP so there will be NO questions as to who is your enemy or not.
Plus it is not like you can't learn other factions armor types... I could be a Nord wearing a Khajit (which has a very distinct look to it) helm.
As I said prior, faction locking severely limits each of the factions racial abilities toward certain roles... Some are tank heavy like EP and some are DPS heavy like AD... If they wanted to keep the factions locks they should just do away with racial abilities all together.
I get that people are pissed off because of the pre order bit about faction lock... But hey, suits are gunna suit...
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Excuse me, but what "defectors" are you talking about? Defector would mean, that all the players that play a race other than the three assigned to a particular alliance, have been conscripted soldiers of a different alliance before. And that's the issue: Nobody, no matter what alliance you pick, starts as a loyal soldier of a faction.
In case of the AD starter zone you even pretend at first to belong to the AD. So... unless they give you a specific background and tell you that you have always been a soldier for your faction, there won't be any defectors. Just a culturally and racially diverse population within a territory, that chooses to support one of the three ideologies.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Neither the Imprials behind the paywall nor the faction turncoats are a big issue for me. Imperials are just another (boring) human race. *shrug* And changing faction existed in EQ2 via the betrayal quest.
BUT: that is how I would have want to see it handled. Instead of a preorder bonus, demand a difficult questline. Betraying should not be an easy thing, and certainly not something handed to you for cash.
Generally I don't find it ok, that a game costing already 60 dollars PLUS monthly fee adds stuff behind another paywall. I thought the 15 dollar per months argument is "all inclusive", like a flatrate gaming. Apprently some people are more special. So while it no biggie for me, both decisions do leave a bad taste. It sounds so much like a "suits" decisions which overrides any gaming logic.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Again, there is no betraying taking place. Your character is a tabula rasa, he has no past loyalties to reject.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Clearly you have not played the PvP, there is absolutely no way to tell races apart in ESO except for icons over heads and the occasional tail. When everyone is geared up they all look the same so this is a moot point. You're not dealing with huge size differences between races that make them stand out like a sore thumb like in DAOC. There are no big trolls and no tiny gnomes.
Red is dead.
~Awesome Tr!x
Having all races playable on all factions was definately the right decision, doing it this late by going against everything they said and their game mechanics is disgraceful. Don't get me wrong, I was super excited about the Imperial race through the Imperial Edition since that's the only race I play in the rpg's.
I just can't help but agree with some points made by the nay-sayers of how this is either a cash grab or just a large gameplay mistake made by the developers with a half-assed fix several months before launch.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Having complex lore is just too much for today's gaming generation to handle. Everyone wants to be able to do everything and if they can't they cry. I thought for once we had something that held its structure.
If you can play any race anywhere you want, then what's the fkn point of races anyway? Why not just make 1 race and call it a day? Oh, you want to play with your orc pal and have lizard scales, too damned bad. The French and the English had a helluva war during the War of Roses. French and English would kill each other if they so much as heard the other's accent. This is how REAL LIVING BEINGS WORK - they fekkeng hate the other race. You think racism was bad in the Southern states of America for a few hundred years? Imagine fantasy races.
Oh wait, you can, because the master of the fantasy tale, JRR Tolkien, reminded Hobbit viewers that Elves and the Orcs aren't going to go on adventures together. WTF is wrong with these games selling out to continuous mediocority?
Your argument might make sense in a different setting or a different game. The choice of race for the player character has always been narratively meaningless in Elder Scrolls games. It is one of the defining features of the series that your race doesn't impact the story, even when it probably should.
That said, there is really no reason in this game specifically for factions to be race restricted. The player character isn't choosing a faction, and because the character does not have a choice, what it would make sense for the character to choose doesn't enter the equation. He is tossed to a random island by magic, and ends up joining whichever faction happens to control the island he ends up on. It is only the player that makes a choice of faction, outside the narrative.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
First off, it's not a fit with previous Elder Scrolls games....you know, the audience they are trying to market to.
Secondly, their are countless examples throughout history of different ethnic/religious/political groups allowing folks to ally, even if they were from supposedly 'enemy' factions or lineages. Japanese and American born Nisei fought (and fought well) in the American arny in WWII. Significant numbers of Germans served in the fight as well. American born or refugee, they played important roles. Reading a bit on the Russo-Finnish war of 1940, the Finns fought the Russians to a bloody standstill under a commanding general who was Russian! Northerners fought on the Southern side of the Civil War, Southerners on the Northern side. Your categorical denial is not in evidence. Because THAT's the actual way things work.
Thirdly, Tolkien may not have had orc adventurers, but D&D sure managed it. And, Tolkien showed some serious animosity going on between elves and dwarves -- but look what happened there!
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Unless the player didn't preorder, in which case your character is locked in a faction because, uh money.
Since ESO is no longer under NDA I will tell you my opinion of Beta.
I played the first time through beta testing leveled up to level 10+ and found many bugs reported them I am sure they were fixed.
The next two Beta tests after that I expected Real Testing, Honestly give me access to whatever I want to test your game, Gear, Free max levels, etc. instead I am very limited to what I can test I barely even bother playing at all the game felt like Crap.
The Developers did not take what I told them seriously I don't feel, and honestly I think ESO is a big failure I will list my reasons why.
Factions.
Races are faction locked, instead of having a unique system where I can play Dark Elf, or Human, choose my own back-ground, my own ability advantages, I am stuck with a Faction which is pretty stupid I should have the ability to choose a faction and fight for that faction, rather than be locked into 2% Melee Damage bonus for example just because I play a Human, and so on I should be able to choose my strengths and alliance.
Instead I can't, this totally sucks.
Class Lock System.
Instead of allowing me to play a single character, max all crafts, and skills You Limit Me ! which is pretty dumb, for example I choose a mage, but choose to use a bow instead of a staff I get different weapon skills but I can't swap my class skill-set this is pretty dumb if you ask me.
Crafting
I never really tested crafting, and don't know if I can max all crafts on a single character I was hoping I could, but doubt players can.
The Game Doesn't Feel Like Elder Scrolls.
The game to me feels like Rift, or World OF Warcraft, doesn't feel like ES, or Skyrim to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaMWNOURKjE
Lack of housing might I say another problem.
Problem with ESO, developers don't take me seriously when I say to do something, and its sad to see a perfectly good game go down the drain, just watch the game will go F2P Before long, and honestly I am not in no hurry to buy ESO because of the developers not listening to what I said or taking me seriously at all not even a response to the feed-back left 3 times.
Lack of barbershop / Customization / Re-customization.
Over-All.
Each to their own if you have the money to waste, and don't care buy the game, but personally I am in no hurry to buy the game because I think ESO is going to be a big failure and go F2P, I have bought many games that turned out to go F2P a year or a few years later.
ESO could have been something Unique had the developers had put some real effort into the game, but if you are honestly like me and tired of games that have character Classes, and restricted character progression then perhaps you should try the following.
Dark Fall
EVE Online
. Or wait to give Black Desert / Arche Age a try.
Just don't say I didn't warn yo about ESO before you wasted $100 on a collectors edition, if the developers actually listen, and make the game sand-box based, add all the aspects that should be there on release my opinion may change, but this far in development, usually it doesn't change.
Very well done, that is one intelligent column.
I mean if you think about it, gamers could complain about the pre order of any game, for any reason. Even if it just has cosmetic stuff. Also regardless if a company cares about gamers or not? They all are out to make money. This is a business. Even if you like a company.
You know how people lick the ground Valve walks on and loves steam? But hates Origin because it's DRM. Those gamers don't even realize Steam is DRM. Oh you can play some titles off line? Sweet, go and try to sell your games. Oh you can't? That's right. You are renting them from steam. Origin takes game returns. Steam doesn't. See my point? But EA is out to make money, offers day 1 dlc, and pre orders are junk. Oh I forgot, Valve is it this for free and doesn't offer any day 1 DLC or bad pre orders. They are gods.
This are the same people, who think, ESO, is applying the cash grab by offering a pre order race unlock. Yet will praise landmark, when people paid to get into the alpha. Like early access wasn't a cash grab? Follow the herd of popular opinion, that's right.
No need to think for yourself, it's cool to hate on ESO right now, and hump the leg of EQN/Wildstar. It's the cool thing. Hate WoW too. No need to think for yourselves. Just do what the cool kids do.
I am not suggesting all the people who hated ESO are idiots. I am saying, the people blindly hating them, not knowing anything, not playing the beta and listening to the haters are.
There is a reason companies pay people to go on the forums and hate on games. Make up stuff. These companies think gamers are entitled hotheads, without intelligence, who have lemmings syndrome. That will flame away on their fellow competitors, with just one spark, in one place.
I hope one day, gamers are better than that, but as ESO has shown, and extreme examples, of gamer writers and publishers, getting daily death threats, that their families and or they will die for doing a game wrong, or ruining something lore wise.
Gamers will never be taken seriously as a group, until blind rage, and hate becomes a extreme minority. Sure also groups have that too, but when your groups focus in say video games and not politics or something like that, it becomes more laughable.
"What tastes like purple?"
Being denied then put behind a paywall is what is bad about it.
No one knows what will happen when the game launches it might be still free when the game is ordered or ehem cash shop.
Still this brings up another question no one seems to ask, how will Zenimax balance factions for pvp balance? Do they have a system in place or will there be one sided battles?
How about all of the suspicion and hatred shown Japanese/Japanese-Americans who were thrown into internment camps? Some of their families had been in the US already for many generations. Is that proof that the US government/military trusted the Japanese "turncoats"? How about German-Americans having to give up their cultural identity and their language because of the wars and the suspicion they had to live under? That was the vast majority of people from those cultural/ethnic groups. You also did not mention Germans living in the UK, I noticed, which is more like what the situation in TESO would be like than the US example you made as so many Americans have German ancestry.
The other two examples you gave are not about two distinctive races going against each other (Finland has many ethnic Russians for example). It is not the same as elves, orcs, and humans in a game that publicized itself as being based on DAoC's Realm vs. Realm system where the races were quite clearly realm-locked.
Let's get back to the DAoC thing. Locked realms was a *major* aspect of the play. If Zenimax had just said that races were not locked to factions and opened this option to everyone that would be quite, quite different. The devs should not have said, even insisting multiple times, that their PvP was based on DAoC's RvR system. For me it is a case of bad advertizement and resulting disappointment. As someone who was hoping for a game with DAoC-style RvR, I was interested in this title. Now that it seems to be giving up some of the things it insisted upon, and that go against how DAoC was, and on top of it putting them behind a CE pre-order, I have just lost interest.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
So I, as a former DAoC player who has not beta'ed TESO, am an idiot because of the pre-order/CE shenanigans and the renegging of their original stance on faction locks? The fact that they suddenly scrapped a major aspect of DAoC RvR and still claim to have based the PvP portion of their game on DAoC makes me an idiot and hater?
I don't have to beta TESO to know that they are doing something that I dislike intensely. On the contrary, I have a brain and am not willing to fork out lots of money to a company that has changed direction and put what I would consider a primary game element in a pre-order and a CE to boot. If I were a sheeple, I would have had blind faith in this product and not questioned these moves at all. If more players were like me, questioning why we have to pull out our wallets more and more often now for these primary game elements, it would be good overall for the game industry and for us.
And furthermore, just because we disagree does not mean that I would consider YOU an idiot for having your opinion, so you should not consider me an idiot because I don't share it. You should be more respectful towards others.
Lastly, I am not paid by anyone to post my disapproval of how this game is being sold and managed, though if someone does want to pay me to post here, I am open to any offers....
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.