Hehe,for me the game is just about over when I reach max level. I would be paying for what? No thanks. I play for all the content between level 1 and max level.
Would you do it? New game, instant max for an extra fee? Skip all the questing and get right to the good stuff?
60$ for instant ESO/Wildstar max level? Yeah?
I gather you are a PvP player. i suspect the different answers to this question will come among PvP types versus PvE types, among which I include myself.
Would you do it? New game, instant max for an extra fee? Skip all the questing and get right to the good stuff?
60$ for instant ESO/Wildstar max level? Yeah?
Todays so-called "gamer".
No wonder gaming has become the festering wound it is today.
Fair Check my history. You see, I hate questing for levels. I hate it with a passion. I love progression and long deep character development, but my progression and development can't be quest centric.
So yeah, I just might pay in a games like Wildstar and ESO.
I wouldnt play it. whats the point in having the rest of the game if you just get to zip to the end, whats the point of the rest of the game when the focus seems to be on getting to the end. Why not just release the end as its own game and save all the time from the journey.
The question is, would you pay 60 bucks +a subfee for WoW endgame. when you want another character you pay another 60 bucks.
End game wow is a few zones of dailies, PvP and raids. I suppose Challenge mode dungeons also.
The next xpac would be say 5 raids, 5 story zones (if you dont like quests well.... what do they reward ? new abilities, gear, achievements?) and a couple new battlegrounds/arenas.
Im not against a game coming out saying we cut out all the mmorpg crap, its gear based progression instead of gear and level based progression and the whole point is crawling dungeons and raids.with some pvp tossed in for good measure, its an interesting concept.
I need leveling because I gain abilities one at a time and have plenty of opportunities to understand how they fit together.
i would have a very hard time being dropped at level cap. That's why I have a hard time with an offspec. leveling is important to me. it's how I understand my character. I treat 1-59 as tutorial for level 60.
I hear you. Lets be honest though gone are the days when you actually need to learn how to use something. I sware the first time I leveled in WoW I need every level plus more to understand how to use all my lock skills. Things just haven't been like that in awhile
Now it's - Direct dmg 1, dot dmg 2, AoE 3, CC/Movement 4, Long dmg cool down 5. 6 heal... lol Fast forward me please!
I wouldn't buy it but for a game designed like WoW, after being out for many years, it's beneficial to have a catch up mechanic to keep the population fresh.
And unlike other MMOs, WoW a player has 50 toons on 5 realms to level PER CLIENT.
o.O
Now the hardest hardcore can literally waste their life leveling, but I have *3* clients which is 150 toons. I've been through the process enough times already, $10 or so for a level 90 toon WOULD BE A BLESSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would never pay to have my characters leveled for me, not even if I had a dozen other max level characters.
I'm less offended by the idea than others though. Even if only 1 out of 6 MMO players would do it, that still places the number in the millions. There's been a market for it for a long time; power-leveling services have been a part of MMOs at least since I began playing them 7 years ago. Although I'm not particularly pro-developer, I would rather see them get the money than a third party.
Are there some negative consequences in terms of community and long-term satisfaction of a game when players buy their way to max level? I think there probably are. But then every design decision has consequences. If you find the consequences negatively affecting you to the point that you no longer want to play, vote with your wallet and all that. If it costs companies more revenue than it brings it, the idea will get dropped in the next iteration of games.
I think plenty of people against it would reevaluate the idea too, were the circumstances such that jumping to max level allowed one to play with friends sooner, or help out one's guild, or have a character for a very specific role, or be able to complete time-sensitive content (think the Headless Horseman or Coren Direbrew).
Most people think this is no big deal because hey leveling is boring - what's the big deal if some people get to skip a lot of it.
But this pay to skip mechanic has an insidious effect on your game design - and generally means your game will suffer in the long term. The AH is Diablo III is a good example. It encouraged Blizzard to make good loot very rare - and for them to fill the game with junk loot. This meant that everyone would buy everything good from the AH - and perhaps even spend real money.
It sounds genius the problem is players no longer felt the fun that comes from finding their own epic loot - and it hurt the game. A move like this has much the same effect. Blizzard has no incentive to make the leveling process more enjoyable. In fact, they want to make in more frustrating and dull so more people will opt to pay out.
The same danger as the AH exists here. Its not a direct attack on the game - its an attack on how the game should be. Blizzard should be thinking of ways to make leveling more fun or more rewarding. Instead they seek to profit of their own failure..
Would you do it? New game, instant max for an extra fee? Skip all the questing and get right to the good stuff?
60$ for instant ESO/Wildstar max level? Yeah?
It really depends. For a game like DAoC i would have done it. Maybe it could be interesting for ESO, too. Because there the main game was/is the RvR/AvA, and in DAoC leveling up was in the beginning a pain in the ass.
Therefore i am glad Mark Jacobs skips the pve leveling up for Camelot Unchained.. but for most other games it is rather useless and you skip the game with it.
If developers actually made MMO's interesting from the get up and go with content released at the time of a games release date then people wouldn't need to rush or pay for instant character level cap, developers need to stop making end game the be all and end all, grinding end game dungeons for gear to produce bigger numbers whilst beating on mobs doesn't cut it in my book.
Originally posted by Cod_Eye If developers actually made MMO's interesting from the get up and go with content released at the time of a games release date then people wouldn't need to rush or pay for instant character level cap, developers need to stop making end game the be all and end all, grinding end game dungeons for gear to produce bigger numbers whilst beating on mobs doesn't cut it in my book.
When they do that people complain there is nothing to do at level cap. :P So while its fine to spout platitudes its difficulty to actually implement. GW2 is just as good low level as it is at max - actually most people think its better.
Its WoW developers in particular that are being stupid. Don't blame the whole industry.
Here is what I think - the current WoW developers aren't as smart as they used to be - most of the brain trust has moved onto other games. And this is just another monetization method that they couldn't argue their way out of. Bobby Kotick sent down the order and the WoW developers caved.
He wants to milk the IP. He doesn't care that it incentivizes Blizzard leaving their leveling content boring or that people playing don't feel that little something extra you get from leveling your own character.. He just wants to make a buck before people dump the game wholesale..
These guys are intent on gutting their game - even if its a slow drawn out process. They want to keep their revenue around 1 Billion. It's going to be tough. I think that the competition is catching up to them.. Not a common sentiment around here...
The same danger as the AH exists here. Its not a direct attack on the game - its an attack on how the game should be. Blizzard should be thinking of ways to make leveling more fun or more rewarding. Instead they seek to profit of their own failure..
They already rearranged the quest system in Cata. Reworked the quests to make them more sane. But 90 levels even with XP buffs from BoAs, it's still a long time to level.
Blizzard makes its $$$ off of players leveling toons. The reason they sued Glider wasn't for the game gold exploits, it's because it made leveling faster. They expect $120 in sub fees per character leveled (at least at the time Glider was sued). They don't lose money off of charging for leveling 50 toons, they can make it still by keeping players in the game playing (that's if they don't nerf classes or game styles to do it, e.g, 5.3 that had a lot of PvPers leave to play something else, due to changes in PvP. When Blizzard messes with player classes enough, and their mechanics, people leave now over it as there's alternatives to play. They may return, but come back each time more disillusioned in the game. After awhile it's easy to leave forever).
But Blizzard has their reasons to keep the "free" leveling eye gourging slow and distasteful (oh, and there's talk now -- in almost 10 years of existence -- of trying to balance <90 classes). You bet every angle to level more or less for free is being sealed off (SoR for example).
The Imperial Edition pre order I made, that my friends who play WoW complained endlessly about me buying? Waiting for them to log on with my three days left of game time to ask them what they think now. Considering with my Amazon credit, from other games I got it for 64 dollars.
"The Imperial Edition is greedy and a cash grab!" they said, "Can't support a game that does it." They said, while ignoring the mount and pet shop. Can't wait till I hear the opinions on them from this.
But from reading the forums, it seems like the cash cows are lining up to be milked dry, they seem to think it's a "reasonable price".
No I won't pay it. I'll use that money to try out Wildstar instead. Even though I haven't been kind to the game, and didn't expect to be playing it. Didn't count on leaving WoW, and not playing WoD either, after being excited about the lore so much.
I can certainly afford it, but I don't care how much money you do or don't have. Paying 60 dollars to a developer to skip a large portion of content because it's boring and un fun is just stupid.
I have some "magic" beans and some snake oil, I'd like to sell to the supporters of the 60 dollar price tag, in the WoW official forums.
Part of why i like mmorpgs is the character development.. if the game is so bad that you want to cut that bit of it out then its just not worth playing..
Originally posted by tindeath I personally would not pay or want to level without playing my toon. I feel sorry for the folks that group with those that pay to level as I do not believe they will be able to play their toons as well as those who level it up through normal progression.
Levelling habits sometimes don't translate well to endgame expectations; which means that while those who skip the levelling content start out worse, you might find they catch up faster. Less baggage to unlearn.
EQ2 does it. GW2 does not - last I checked. Experience boosters aren't the same as max level. The end game is pretty small in GW2 so it wouldn't make sense. But following anything smedley does is pretty stupid on the part of WoW.
Originally posted by tindeath I personally would not pay or want to level without playing my toon. I feel sorry for the folks that group with those that pay to level as I do not believe they will be able to play their toons as well as those who level it up through normal progression.
Levelling habits sometimes don't translate well to endgame expectations; which means that while those who skip the levelling content start out worse, you might find they catch up faster. Less baggage to unlearn.
Pathetic. Leveling should train up players so they can function more effectively in Blizzard's endgame. Why have all this raid based endgame when you have dungeons that mages can tank on the way up..
Its true leveling is slow and boring in WoW. But they could have always fixed that - make it fast but difficult. they could have let the dungeons give massive xp rewards upon completion but still be difficult. There were many ways out of this mess and they choose the lazy stupid one..
Originally posted by Purutzil The fact this exists is pretty stupid. The fact WoW has it WITH a monthly sub and generally their overpriced services really rubs me (and has rubbed me) the wrong way. Its ridiculously greedy of them on so many levels.
It's coming though man. The rest of the industry will follow. All it will take is one company to offer the "New Release Max Edition."
From what I understand this is another case of WoW following in EQII's footsteps but EQII somehow living in WoWs shadow. Funny thing is people will probably condemn WoW for setting the trend just like they do when they say WoW simplified the genre.
How is that funny?
It's not the guy who starts it that sets the trend; it's the guy who convinces everyone else to follow along. Always has been.
Originally posted by GuyClinch EQ2 does it. GW2 does not - last I checked. Experience boosters aren't the same as max level. The end game is pretty small in GW2 so it wouldn't make sense. But following anything smedley does is pretty stupid on the part of WoW.
Trade gem for Gold -> Buy Mats from TP -> Make stuff -> get level 80
So other than pressing a few more buttons for 1 hour, pretty sure GW2 is the same.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I gather you are a PvP player. i suspect the different answers to this question will come among PvP types versus PvE types, among which I include myself.
New game? Nope.
10 year old game? I don't really care.
Fair
Check my history. You see, I hate questing for levels. I hate it with a passion. I love progression and long deep character development, but my progression and development can't be quest centric.
So yeah, I just might pay in a games like Wildstar and ESO.
I wouldnt play it. whats the point in having the rest of the game if you just get to zip to the end, whats the point of the rest of the game when the focus seems to be on getting to the end. Why not just release the end as its own game and save all the time from the journey.
The question is, would you pay 60 bucks +a subfee for WoW endgame. when you want another character you pay another 60 bucks.
End game wow is a few zones of dailies, PvP and raids. I suppose Challenge mode dungeons also.
The next xpac would be say 5 raids, 5 story zones (if you dont like quests well.... what do they reward ? new abilities, gear, achievements?) and a couple new battlegrounds/arenas.
Im not against a game coming out saying we cut out all the mmorpg crap, its gear based progression instead of gear and level based progression and the whole point is crawling dungeons and raids.with some pvp tossed in for good measure, its an interesting concept.
I personally would never consider it, but if this is what the gamers of today want, then who am I to tell them otherwise?
If a game is that bad that you would actually pay money to skip content... nevermind.
O_o o_O
I hear you. Lets be honest though gone are the days when you actually need to learn how to use something. I sware the first time I leveled in WoW I need every level plus more to understand how to use all my lock skills. Things just haven't been like that in awhile
Now it's - Direct dmg 1, dot dmg 2, AoE 3, CC/Movement 4, Long dmg cool down 5. 6 heal... lol Fast forward me please!
And unlike other MMOs, WoW a player has 50 toons on 5 realms to level PER CLIENT.
o.O
Now the hardest hardcore can literally waste their life leveling, but I have *3* clients which is 150 toons. I've been through the process enough times already, $10 or so for a level 90 toon WOULD BE A BLESSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I would never pay to have my characters leveled for me, not even if I had a dozen other max level characters.
I'm less offended by the idea than others though. Even if only 1 out of 6 MMO players would do it, that still places the number in the millions. There's been a market for it for a long time; power-leveling services have been a part of MMOs at least since I began playing them 7 years ago. Although I'm not particularly pro-developer, I would rather see them get the money than a third party.
Are there some negative consequences in terms of community and long-term satisfaction of a game when players buy their way to max level? I think there probably are. But then every design decision has consequences. If you find the consequences negatively affecting you to the point that you no longer want to play, vote with your wallet and all that. If it costs companies more revenue than it brings it, the idea will get dropped in the next iteration of games.
I think plenty of people against it would reevaluate the idea too, were the circumstances such that jumping to max level allowed one to play with friends sooner, or help out one's guild, or have a character for a very specific role, or be able to complete time-sensitive content (think the Headless Horseman or Coren Direbrew).
Most people think this is no big deal because hey leveling is boring - what's the big deal if some people get to skip a lot of it.
But this pay to skip mechanic has an insidious effect on your game design - and generally means your game will suffer in the long term. The AH is Diablo III is a good example. It encouraged Blizzard to make good loot very rare - and for them to fill the game with junk loot. This meant that everyone would buy everything good from the AH - and perhaps even spend real money.
It sounds genius the problem is players no longer felt the fun that comes from finding their own epic loot - and it hurt the game. A move like this has much the same effect. Blizzard has no incentive to make the leveling process more enjoyable. In fact, they want to make in more frustrating and dull so more people will opt to pay out.
The same danger as the AH exists here. Its not a direct attack on the game - its an attack on how the game should be. Blizzard should be thinking of ways to make leveling more fun or more rewarding. Instead they seek to profit of their own failure..
It really depends. For a game like DAoC i would have done it. Maybe it could be interesting for ESO, too. Because there the main game was/is the RvR/AvA, and in DAoC leveling up was in the beginning a pain in the ass.
Therefore i am glad Mark Jacobs skips the pve leveling up for Camelot Unchained.. but for most other games it is rather useless and you skip the game with it.
Doh!
Of course I would. Who in their right mind wouldn't??
Every MMO start at level cap so why torture yourself with mindless and pointless grinding.
I really hope we get the chance to buy a macx level toon in every future MMO.
If not, there's always the exellent powerleveling services available through different companies.
I've used it many times.
When they do that people complain there is nothing to do at level cap. :P So while its fine to spout platitudes its difficulty to actually implement. GW2 is just as good low level as it is at max - actually most people think its better.
Its WoW developers in particular that are being stupid. Don't blame the whole industry.
Here is what I think - the current WoW developers aren't as smart as they used to be - most of the brain trust has moved onto other games. And this is just another monetization method that they couldn't argue their way out of. Bobby Kotick sent down the order and the WoW developers caved.
He wants to milk the IP. He doesn't care that it incentivizes Blizzard leaving their leveling content boring or that people playing don't feel that little something extra you get from leveling your own character.. He just wants to make a buck before people dump the game wholesale..
These guys are intent on gutting their game - even if its a slow drawn out process. They want to keep their revenue around 1 Billion. It's going to be tough. I think that the competition is catching up to them.. Not a common sentiment around here...
They already rearranged the quest system in Cata. Reworked the quests to make them more sane. But 90 levels even with XP buffs from BoAs, it's still a long time to level.
Blizzard makes its $$$ off of players leveling toons. The reason they sued Glider wasn't for the game gold exploits, it's because it made leveling faster. They expect $120 in sub fees per character leveled (at least at the time Glider was sued). They don't lose money off of charging for leveling 50 toons, they can make it still by keeping players in the game playing (that's if they don't nerf classes or game styles to do it, e.g, 5.3 that had a lot of PvPers leave to play something else, due to changes in PvP. When Blizzard messes with player classes enough, and their mechanics, people leave now over it as there's alternatives to play. They may return, but come back each time more disillusioned in the game. After awhile it's easy to leave forever).
But Blizzard has their reasons to keep the "free" leveling eye gourging slow and distasteful (oh, and there's talk now -- in almost 10 years of existence -- of trying to balance <90 classes). You bet every angle to level more or less for free is being sealed off (SoR for example).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
The Imperial Edition pre order I made, that my friends who play WoW complained endlessly about me buying? Waiting for them to log on with my three days left of game time to ask them what they think now. Considering with my Amazon credit, from other games I got it for 64 dollars.
"The Imperial Edition is greedy and a cash grab!" they said, "Can't support a game that does it." They said, while ignoring the mount and pet shop. Can't wait till I hear the opinions on them from this.
But from reading the forums, it seems like the cash cows are lining up to be milked dry, they seem to think it's a "reasonable price".
No I won't pay it. I'll use that money to try out Wildstar instead. Even though I haven't been kind to the game, and didn't expect to be playing it. Didn't count on leaving WoW, and not playing WoD either, after being excited about the lore so much.
I can certainly afford it, but I don't care how much money you do or don't have. Paying 60 dollars to a developer to skip a large portion of content because it's boring and un fun is just stupid.
I have some "magic" beans and some snake oil, I'd like to sell to the supporters of the 60 dollar price tag, in the WoW official forums.
"What tastes like purple?"
Levelling habits sometimes don't translate well to endgame expectations; which means that while those who skip the levelling content start out worse, you might find they catch up faster. Less baggage to unlearn.
For a 10 year old game, think this is pretty good from Acti-Blizz.
I can't imagine trying to level up a toon right now after so many expansions.
Besides, GW2, EQ2 does it as well so don't see a big issue.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Pathetic. Leveling should train up players so they can function more effectively in Blizzard's endgame. Why have all this raid based endgame when you have dungeons that mages can tank on the way up..
Its true leveling is slow and boring in WoW. But they could have always fixed that - make it fast but difficult. they could have let the dungeons give massive xp rewards upon completion but still be difficult. There were many ways out of this mess and they choose the lazy stupid one..
How is that funny?
It's not the guy who starts it that sets the trend; it's the guy who convinces everyone else to follow along. Always has been.
Trade gem for Gold -> Buy Mats from TP -> Make stuff -> get level 80
So other than pressing a few more buttons for 1 hour, pretty sure GW2 is the same.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.