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Is this a scam?
saxifr
Member UncommonPosts: 381
It sounds like they have no product, they put a kickstarter up to get paid 800k for some concept art and whatever work they have already done.
There is no game or product or anything that results from this kickstarter. People keep talking about "this game" - what game? there isn't any game.
There is no product or game period.
The product they are currently selling since the Kickstarter appears to be kaput is a subscription to a forum to talk about the game they are allegedly making..fair enough.
But even that also seems like a rip-off of how SOE has been marketing landmark and EQN.
It's kind of sad at best, and I honestly wonder if it is not an outright attempt to rip people off.
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
Comments
No, it's not a scam.
I don't know what else to tell you, do more research? Look at Brad's eyes when he is doing an Q&A, the man is so tired from working he can barely answer questions...
The only ones being ripped off are those pledging funds or paying the forum subscription on the private Pantheon site. At least if the public KS campaign didn't fund, no one was left out of pocket. Well, except Brad and his cronies. But if the KS failed, supporters lost nothing, and that is what is most important. Those protections are gone now with the private site up and running.
The KS was never about creating a working MMO. The 800k was going to be used to rent office space, pay wages, buy hardware etc., to set up the company. Game development was secondary.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah-
OMG. Spit coffee on my keyboard.
-Heres the thing. This post is so 100% spot on it isnt even funny. This post says it all- Its true.
Yes, everything looks very shady and like a scam. All logic points in that direction- Except for what the poster above mentioned which trumps everything else.
No self respecting scammer would have put together that KS. No scammer- Period would have done that poorly a job.
I have to agree.
I kickstarted $40 out of nostalgia, but seeing crafting as a stretch goal just told me it would never get anywhere. I have no ill will toward Brad, but this was pretty poorly managed.
If they try again with some better stretch goals and actually have the basic features a PvE-heavy MMO should have, I'll put money down again.
It is the best thing for the genre to have this abortion of an MMO curb-stomped viciously before any money was wasted.
I'm all for an old school game. But this is just a failure from the very core of its being.
They should probably do self funding campaign on their website at this point. at least they know they can raise 400k, the rest of the money will come in during production. At least that's what i would do. Honestly he should have pulled the campaign a few days ago. Having a big red "FAILED" on Kickstarter doesn't do much for any ones reputation. Hopefully he can let his ego go and kill the campaign ASAP. Pull that little plug that looks like a nipple Brad, it will help deflate your ego.
That's what they are doing. The VR team have deserted the KS and are concentrating on their website
https://www.pantheonrotf.com/
For 15 bucks a month you too can be an apprentice dev and have full access to the forums.
The concept art was largely from a previous project. The 'proof of concept' they've shown was all stuff made after the KS started funding. The community/PR manager at one point admitted they'd revealed all the assets and information they had available, indicating everything was being done on the fly.
In an update on a POST-Kickstarter plan, that was already going live before the KS ended, they reveal their private site and that it will be taking donations.
They almost seem to be talking their backers away from the KS and blaming KS for not being good enough:
"We'll also be able to add more rewards at any given time, without the new rewards affecting other tiers. This was something we've been unable to do too much of during the Kickstarter without a lot of confusion as to how specific tiers would affect the others."
But I don't see other KS projects having so much trouble or confusion.
And the killer is saying things like this that make me think they'd rather people go to the new site, not KS:
"From the official game site you'll be able to pledge, much like you have been on Kickstarter, but with less percentage taken off due to fees deducted by Amazon and Kickstarter. So this means more of your money goes directly into the development of the game."
So, basically, they see the KS not funding, and instead of a big push to the finish, one of our final updates is talking about how the KS wasn't that great a vehicle for them and their new site will be taking DIRECT donations and get more of your money because it'll be given directly.
I'm not saying it's a scam. I wouldn't argue against anyone who felt that way, though. Not at this point.
Add into the mix that they pitched a "game" as their project on KS, but then in interviews have repeatedly said the 800k doesn't get a game, only offices and paychecks and basically to start a studio to someday hope to get the funding to make the actual game.
Kickstarters to start business are against KS policy.
It's also against KS policy to fund social media websites, but their new subscription site seems little more than a social media site for gamers and this game, even one of their updates describes the new site as:
"The new site puts a great emphasis on community and social interaction, much like Pantheon. You'll be able to connect with friends, see their status feeds, create guilds and groups, share images and videos, browse and participate in the wiki, toss around game ideas in the Think Tank,chat with friends in the IRC, post blogs, create events, participate in polls and surveys, and discuss topics on the forums. We feel this kind of community building is important prior to launching a community-centric game, so we wanted to give you the tools to do just that."
and people have reported you can even tweet directly from the site.
Add that to the fact they've said they would be using the KS funds to back-pay for all the work people put in on the KS (which seems a conflict of interest anyhow, why should our funds from a KS go to funding that very KS!? If they're back paying people who worked on what seems little more than a mmo/gamer/pantheon social networking site, then again, it seems against KS policy, or at least oddly shady to try to use a KS to fund that very KS campaign and use funds to set up your own private-donation gathering website that acts as a social media hub for your subscribers.
According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.
Yet the KS mission statement says the project is for:
"An epic planar high fantasy MMO from renowned EverQuest creator Brad McQuaid."
If they stated they were needing funds to set up a studio, rent space, buy equipment, it would have probably been a blatant violation of KS policy that doesn't allow a person to set up a KS to start a business.
If they had stated they were making a tech demo, then hey, that would have been a great idea.
Instead, they talked about the game and said it was to fund a game and even their first, 800k milestone vaguely explains "We're one step closer to delivering the MMORPG experience our fans have been yearning for!"
At best, vague. At worst, misleading and duplicitous in the fact the next stretch goal is game related, and the project claims to be making a game, yet the reality in interviews is the 800k funding would be going toward setting up a studio and basically starting a business that wants to make a game.
Scam? Maybe not. Misleading and shady. Imo yes.
According to a Facebook quiz, I'm a genius.
I agree, and as Buccaneer it is something they're going for.
I figure it's likely that the initial amount of money is just to show investors that there is a desire for this type of game, and that even as niche as it sounds $400,000 is a significant amount of money from crowdfunding - unfortunately, investors and crowd-funding don't really go together in the best way, unless carefully negotiated. Gamers already dislike investment/marketing/publisher directed changes to games - I can only imagine how much worse it would be if those gamers had put money toward the game as a show of faith and something got changed because their primary investor thought it would be better that way.
Not to say that's what will happen, of course, hopefully they're smarter than that or can simply get by in a Star Citizen-manner of not needing investors. But it is like mixing oil and water.
But yeah, I don't think they should ask for money with nothing more than a vague idea. Well I guess it's their right to...
It was really stupid of them to ask so much for so little to show what they are capable of. Its a typical amateur indy mistake with KS. They are very fortunate to even reach 400k. They should have asked for that amount and it is possible they could have greatly exceeded it. Asking for nearly a million or more without a significant amount of work they already put in just looks greedy.
Obviously not a scam. You can even decide to cancel a donation before the time runs out. Not like they are getting funded anyway so still they get $0 from this.
Anyone want to bet they will put up another KS? heh
Spot on. I've seen government projects better managed & presented than Pantheon's KS. They really need to get things together before attempting any further fundraising.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
I applaud them on releasing 50-some-odd updates, even if they were just lore writeups. But even adding all of that in, it was an incomplete mess. Hopefully, when they start crowdfunding through their own site, things will be a bit clearer and they'll get the message that major features like crafting shouldn't be a stretch goal - and if it is, it should be one of the very first ones.
They also need to be a lot clearer on what, exactly, they're doing and with what tools - not just rely on nostalgia.
I bought shroud of the avatar and its already in testing.
pantheon is connected to shroud if people want to fund it and get rewards so I don't think the portelarium team will screw their own crowd funders.
Yeah...
I'm all for Kickstarting somebody's company setup without actually producing a game!
Lol, man Brad is a horrible business man, charging for forum access. Crafting and PVE stretch Goal...
Naw, I was talking about the website for EQN and the way yu can interact with the devs. Roundtable, ThinkTank, what difference is there?
It's almost like McQuaid is Smed's long-lost evil twin brother.
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
Brad didn't ask for that much...his EGO DID. Thinks his name can carry him, he is not nearly as popular as he thinks. Lord British and Marc Jacobs are headline rockstars. Brad is just an indie opening act.
The difference is you don't have to pay $15 a month for that interaction with SoE. It's a free service.
They state right on their kickstarter page FAQ that the kickstarter is to set up the studio:
Doesn't it take more than $800k to make an MMO?
Yes it does. Our intent for this Kickstarter is first to prove that there's enough of a demand for a group focused game that believes in the experience of the game instead of handholding, and to get the ball rolling on development. If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later.