Originally posted by mmatto You have to remember that Ryzom made to top 7 list without anyone mentioning mmorpg.com at Ryzom forums. Ryzom getting first page made those news at first place in Ryzom forums.
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14380 99 Posts and around 4,000 views... They are talking about the content, trying to boost the ratings even further thats what people are complaing about.
Personally I think The Saga of Ryzom has a rating around what it deserves, mid/high 7's. I do however beleive the majority of games in the top end have been rated lower than what they deserve.
*Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author... got sick of holding backspace. ----------------------------------------- ParaTrooper, That guy that used to mod the MMORPG.com forums.
Originally posted by mmatto You have to remember that Ryzom made to top 7 list without anyone mentioning mmorpg.com at Ryzom forums. Ryzom getting first page made those news at first place in Ryzom forums.
[url=http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14380] 99 Posts and around 4,000 views... They are talking about the content, trying to boost the ratings even further thats what people are complaing about.[/b][/quote]
My point still stands. That thread has been started after SoR made to top 7. And I suggest you actually read that thread. It is nothing like a project where people are creating multiple accounts and give too high ratings for sor and urge others to do so too. That was the accusation.
As far as i remember, this was first thread and is it all about telling the newsworthy event that SoR has made it to top 7 at mmorpg.com. For some reason discussion continues in that thread you are referring to and doesn't continue in first thread.
I don't see anything wrong about discussing the fact that sor made it to top 7. Of course, such discussion will lead some new people looking at mmorpg.com and there are people asking others to give their honest rating. Also, there are people who urge to stay away of any false ratings or multiple accounts and I got feeling that consensus was giving honest ratings.
seriously whats the big deal here? i mean lets be realistic. this is a small to mid sized website with a really small community. like the ratings here matter all that much.
i mean if mmorpg.com had the userbase of lets say gamespy, ign, or shacknews these ratings might actually be some indicator of how well a game is doing. but as it stands now, what these ratings really show is the opinion of a small percentage of the really bored hardcore rpg players trolling because they dont want to level. Oh yeah I almost forgot that other group of people that play a game for 2 days, just so they have something to talk about on a message board which, to them, is where the real action is on the internet.
So really whats the big deal here? getting a bad or good review here is like getting a bad or good review in that little free newpaper they have in that little stand at the grocery store. it really doesnt matter all that much.
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Just wanted to add that rating is still based on only 722 reviews. Don't know how many reviews there were before sor got to top 7, maybe 550? So, there is like 150-200 new reviews or so in about 1,5 months and many of those come from original mmorpg.com crowd after seeing SoR in front page and trying out a free trial. Also, there has been E3 related news about sor and that may have added interest in game and result in increased number of user ratings.
I hardly see anything that could be considered as flood from new sor users, if there is like 50-100 new acoounts because of publicity in sor forums. There is total of 218814 members in this site. Staff members might be able to give out better numbers. My numbers are just to illustrate a point.
Originally posted by mmatto My point still stands. That thread has been started after SoR made to top 7. And I suggest you actually read that thread. It is nothing like a project where people are creating multiple accounts and give too high ratings for sor and urge others to do so too. That was the accusation.
I do agree with your point, I'm simply saying that if you tell a group of people who really like a game that theres a poll rating their game your going to get some people coming and posting high results. One problem with MMORPG's is that with other games you play it, you like it and then you move on. With MMORPG's you generally spend a much longer time playing a specific game and in the players mind nothing compares to it. The best example of that is the WoW vs EQ2 debates that went on, we all know that they are good games but to the players of each game the other just doesn't come near it.
*Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author... got sick of holding backspace. ----------------------------------------- ParaTrooper, That guy that used to mod the MMORPG.com forums.
Originally posted by Nerriah LOL! So you're saying that we're not allowed to register at a public website and write a review on a game we like? If my review would've been bad, then it wouldn't matter, right? But once I rated it 7+, the shit really hit the fan, because that suddenly made me "dishonest". My personal opionion is my personal opinion, nothing's going to change that.
It's very simple. Assuming no fan campaigns, people coming to MMORPG should be fairly representative of MMO gamers as a whole. They won't, as a group, be biased for or against any particular game other than how gamers in general feel about it. The only exception to that is very new games - as people review before they tire of them initially which inflates the ratings early on. But that evens out after a time and it's a phenomenon every new game benefits from.
Now if you do have fan campaigns then you get a group of people who're in no way representative of MMO gamers in general and the ratings boil down to "who can best mobilise the fanbois". In other words, they're useless for the intended purpose.
By the way, yes it's equally bad if people were to rate down a game on masse to massage the stats.
Originally posted by Sparky2004 Assuming no fan campaigns, people coming to MMORPG should be fairly representative of MMO gamers as a whole.
Nice theory but far too much assumed for a ranking system in internet. There will be always more or less determined fan campaigns, multi accounters, haters and whatever to skew user ratings.
And I do no think that those people who register at site and rate games at mmorpg.com are anyway representative of MMO gamers as whole. Think about language barriers first, that alone makes this site very US centric. Also, casual or average gamers are underpresented, I suspect.
Also, this rating is not about what game has largest subscriber base. If raters would be a representing fairly whole MMO crowd and assuming that players from certain game rate that game high, then rating would just rank what game has largest subscriber base.
>> Nice theory but far too much assumed for a ranking system in internet. There will be always more or less determined fan campaigns, multi accounters, haters and whatever to skew user ratings.
Sounds like you're arguing because bad stuff may happen, more bad stuff is OK.
>> And I do no think that those people who register at site and rate games at mmorpg.com are anyway representative of MMO gamers as whole. Think about language barriers first, that alone makes this site very US centric. Also, casual or average gamers are underpresented, I suspect.
Yeah, fair points. Probably should have qualified my post a little more.
>> Also, this rating is not about what game has largest subscriber base. If raters would be a representing fairly whole MMO crowd and assuming that players from certain game rate that game high, then rating would just rank what game has largest subscriber base.
Yes, popular games will have more people ranking them - current and former subscribers. But the system doesn't care how many ratings a game gets, only the aggregate score. That argument would only hold water if people rate every single game (which clearly isn't the case - check the number of votes for WOW then SOR if you're unconvinced) and only rate the game they're currently playing well.
Comments
http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14380 99 Posts and around 4,000 views... They are talking about the content, trying to boost the ratings even further thats what people are complaing about.
Personally I think The Saga of Ryzom has a rating around what it deserves, mid/high 7's. I do however beleive the majority of games in the top end have been rated lower than what they deserve.
*Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author... got sick of holding backspace.
-----------------------------------------
ParaTrooper, That guy that used to mod the MMORPG.com forums.
[quote]Originally posted by ParaTrooper
[b]
Originally posted by mmatto
You have to remember that Ryzom made to top 7 list without anyone mentioning mmorpg.com at Ryzom forums. Ryzom getting first page made those news at first place in Ryzom forums.
[url=http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14380] 99 Posts and around 4,000 views... They are talking about the content, trying to boost the ratings even further thats what people are complaing about.[/b][/quote]
My point still stands. That thread has been started after SoR made to top 7. And I suggest you actually read that thread. It is nothing like a project where people are creating multiple accounts and give too high ratings for sor and urge others to do so too. That was the accusation.
As far as i remember, this was first thread and is it all about telling the newsworthy event that SoR has made it to top 7 at mmorpg.com. For some reason discussion continues in that thread you are referring to and doesn't continue in first thread.
I don't see anything wrong about discussing the fact that sor made it to top 7. Of course, such discussion will lead some new people looking at mmorpg.com and there are people asking others to give their honest rating. Also, there are people who urge to stay away of any false ratings or multiple accounts and I got feeling that consensus was giving honest ratings.
seriously whats the big deal here? i mean lets be realistic. this is a small to mid sized website with a really small community. like the ratings here matter all that much.
i mean if mmorpg.com had the userbase of lets say gamespy, ign, or shacknews these ratings might actually be some indicator of how well a game is doing. but as it stands now, what these ratings really show is the opinion of a small percentage of the really bored hardcore rpg players trolling because they dont want to level. Oh yeah I almost forgot that other group of people that play a game for 2 days, just so they have something to talk about on a message board which, to them, is where the real action is on the internet.
So really whats the big deal here? getting a bad or good review here is like getting a bad or good review in that little free newpaper they have in that little stand at the grocery store. it really doesnt matter all that much.
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Just wanted to add that rating is still based on only 722 reviews. Don't know how many reviews there were before sor got to top 7, maybe 550? So, there is like 150-200 new reviews or so in about 1,5 months and many of those come from original mmorpg.com crowd after seeing SoR in front page and trying out a free trial. Also, there has been E3 related news about sor and that may have added interest in game and result in increased number of user ratings.
I hardly see anything that could be considered as flood from new sor users, if there is like 50-100 new acoounts because of publicity in sor forums. There is total of 218814 members in this site. Staff members might be able to give out better numbers. My numbers are just to illustrate a point.
[quote="PeterPAIN!"]
I do however beleive the majority of games in the top end have been rated lower than what they deserve.
[/quote]
I think so too! It's because of all the haters!
[spike lee] HAaaaaate! [/spike lee]
*Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author... got sick of holding backspace.
-----------------------------------------
ParaTrooper, That guy that used to mod the MMORPG.com forums.
* throws trash can *
*Klang* ... auch
*crawls towards vgly, trying to kiss here feet* 
It's very simple. Assuming no fan campaigns, people coming to MMORPG should be fairly representative of MMO gamers as a whole. They won't, as a group, be biased for or against any particular game other than how gamers in general feel about it. The only exception to that is very new games - as people review before they tire of them initially which inflates the ratings early on. But that evens out after a time and it's a phenomenon every new game benefits from.
Now if you do have fan campaigns then you get a group of people who're in no way representative of MMO gamers in general and the ratings boil down to "who can best mobilise the fanbois". In other words, they're useless for the intended purpose.
By the way, yes it's equally bad if people were to rate down a game on masse to massage the stats.
Nice theory but far too much assumed for a ranking system in internet. There will be always more or less determined fan campaigns, multi accounters, haters and whatever to skew user ratings.
And I do no think that those people who register at site and rate games at mmorpg.com are anyway representative of MMO gamers as whole. Think about language barriers first, that alone makes this site very US centric. Also, casual or average gamers are underpresented, I suspect.
Also, this rating is not about what game has largest subscriber base. If raters would be a representing fairly whole MMO crowd and assuming that players from certain game rate that game high, then rating would just rank what game has largest subscriber base.
>> Nice theory but far too much assumed for a ranking system in internet. There will be always more or less determined fan campaigns, multi accounters, haters and whatever to skew user ratings.
Sounds like you're arguing because bad stuff may happen, more bad stuff is OK.
>> And I do no think that those people who register at site and rate games at mmorpg.com are anyway representative of MMO gamers as whole. Think about language barriers first, that alone makes this site very US centric. Also, casual or average gamers are underpresented, I suspect.
Yeah, fair points. Probably should have qualified my post a little more.
>> Also, this rating is not about what game has largest subscriber base. If raters would be a representing fairly whole MMO crowd and assuming that players from certain game rate that game high, then rating would just rank what game has largest subscriber base.
Yes, popular games will have more people ranking them - current and former subscribers. But the system doesn't care how many ratings a game gets, only the aggregate score. That argument would only hold water if people rate every single game (which clearly isn't the case - check the number of votes for WOW then SOR if you're unconvinced) and only rate the game they're currently playing well.