Yeah, sure. Because a Game has a Shop , it's automatically P2W. *headdesk*
Slowly these P2W Threads get really boring *yawn*
Yep, I had the same reaction when I read the OP.
The game isn't even out yet and people are already jumping to the wildest conclusions.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Being as I am 36 with a job, wife, young family and a mortgage I am not sure how your generalised rant about the youth of today relates to me?
With the above in mind, plus the fact there are aroud half a dozen games I would llke to purchase this year, plus the fact I maintain two active MMORPG subs......I am simply trying to ascertain the possibilty that an already very expensive game (ESO) will become even more expensive within a few months.
I think its time for you to make some decisions. I'm 36 yo with a job, a wife, a kid , a mortgage, a car and a dog but i do not have two running subscriptions and i do not plan on buying any game this year except for ESO.
You're clearly on the fence about buying this game so my advice to you would be to just wait it out at least 4 to 5 months maybe even a year and in the meantime you should unsub to one of those MMO's and plan on buying only three new titles instead of six. That'll save you a couple of bucks right? Probably enough bucks to get into ESO if you're still interested in the game. Hell maybe it's gone free to play by that time. Imagine all the cash that you saved up during the year that you can now spend in the f2pp2w cashshop.
I don't want to sound like a dick or anything but my pennies are hard earned too. I really have to be excited about a title to buy it full price and 9 times out of 10 I buy my games on discount (if i'm still remotely interested in them). This leaves me with enough money for the more important things that i've got going on in my life.
They are not planning to have a cash shop within the game.
Why, oh why those lame threads keep coming?
And why, oh why we keep reacting to them?
Cool. do you have a source for that statment?
I don't recall ever seeing a dev say that there are no plans for a cash shop?
IMO it's always been part of the roadmap and nobody has ever stated its not, in an official capacity, at least not as far as I am aware....regardless, the debacle about paygating an entire race when they publicly stated they would never do such a thing kind of invalidates any statement they do make concerning cash shops not being added to the game.
"Game director Matt Firor said in a video interview with ESOHub.de that “there won’t be anything like bonus points, but we will have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too like name changes and things like that”.
Firor went on to claim that the microtransactions will “not be part of the core game”, and that “anything included in the core game is included in the subscription price”."
Name changes. Probably respecs (instead of paying gold.) Probably vanity pets just like the ones that come with the preorders. Possibly the ability to unlock imperial later on (Zeni has said the explorer's pack will not be available post preorder, but they said nothing about imperials.) And most likely stuff like fireworks or wands that let you do special emotes a certain number of times, or dances, or grow to stupid sizes, or other things you'd expect to see as rewards in WoW during one of their holiday events (at least that's generally what how I interpret "fun" stuff that doesn't affect gameplay.
With ESO having such a focus on AvA PvP endgame, how likely is it that the game goes P2W once the cash shop is introduced?
With PvE centric MMORPGs such as SWTOR, there are genuinely no P2W mechanics, despite the CM being such a revenue focus.
With ESO I am concerned that the 90% focus on PvP at endgame will mean their iteration of a cash shop becomes blatantly P2W. The devs have already broken promises and changed design philosophies with regard to alliance limitations etc, even been guilty of borderline bait and switch with the needless money grab to pay gate races.
Is it worth the financial and emotional investment if the game will end up a P2W sham fest inside a year?
Driz
Seriously? First of all, quite the flight your assumptions and predictions took there bud. Also, WORTH FINANCIAL AND EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT IF - what the frack? Just what the heck gaming is to you? If you are worried about going suicidal in case a game takes direction you dont like, then it is absolutely essential for your survival to not play games. Others will just quit at that time and roll the next one.
You can sit there for the next year and contemplate whether you should invest "financially and emotionally" in a game that *MAY* be P2W somewhere down the road.
Or you can have all the fun you can before that happens, if it does happen. And move on simply when it does.
No one has the answer for you, because that's down the road. I know people are quoting developers as saying there won't be cash shops, but I agree with you that they've gone back on a few decisions before and there's always the off chance they do introduce a cash shop.
But I'm not gonna sit here and contemplate. I already pre-ordered a CE because I thoroughly enjoyed the beta. I'm gonna be having fun until it's no longer fun - just like with any other game.
Yeah, Play a game for what it is, when it is. Not for what it may (or may not) someday fork into. This was the same thing that happened in FF14 before its re-launch. Everyone claiming it will go F2P and all that. Yoshi said "no cash shop" and there is no cash shop. So, there are examples both ways. But if you spend all your time "waiting" for something to change, you might miss out on what it is before it changes.....if it ever does.
No. CE mount is white afaik. Also, afaik, CE stuff isn't available in beta.
It's 17k gold to buy a mount, which isn't easy to make, but by level 15-20, if you save up, you should be able to get one.
Thanks
CE stuff wasn't available in Beta. And you still have to pay if you want to upgrade your CE mount to one of the advanced versions, like with any other mount.
With the above in mind, plus the fact there are aroud half a dozen games I would llke to purchase this year, plus the fact I maintain two active MMORPG subs......I am simply trying to ascertain the possibilty that an already very expensive game (ESO) will become even more expensive within a few months.e.
There is no way to know. It can add a cash-shop and become P2W, it can add a cash-shop and NOT become P2W. It can get shut down because the company is broke. It can switch to a B2P model. It can get NGE'd and become a different game completely to appease some perceived audience.
If it switches to P2W, you can always stop paying and switch to something else.
None of the AAA MMOs that I've played that switched payment models away from sub have gone to P2W. P2W is more prominent among 2nd tier or out of market (especially asia-based) games. Almost all the AAA games that switch away from subs still keep the option to maintain your sub and have full access, so at worst, i think you'll have to keep paying the same sub as at launch.
Based on industry trends and experience, i would say that the likelyhood of the game switching models is quite high but the likelyhood of it switching to a P2W model is extremely low.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
With ESO having such a focus on AvA PvP endgame, how likely is it that the game goes P2W once the cash shop is introduced?
With PvE centric MMORPGs such as SWTOR, there are genuinely no P2W mechanics, despite the CM being such a revenue focus.
With ESO I am concerned that the 90% focus on PvP at endgame will mean their iteration of a cash shop becomes blatantly P2W. The devs have already broken promises and changed design philosophies with regard to alliance limitations etc, even been guilty of borderline bait and switch with the needless money grab to pay gate races.
Is it worth the financial and emotional investment if the game will end up a P2W sham fest inside a year?
Driz
Seriously? First of all, quite the flight your assumptions and predictions took there bud. Also, WORTH FINANCIAL AND EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT IF - what the frack? Just what the heck gaming is to you? If you are worried about going suicidal in case a game takes direction you dont like, then it is absolutely essential for your survival to not play games. Others will just quit at that time and roll the next one.
Not really, the games devs have confirmed there is going to be a cash shop:
"Game director Matt Firor said in a video interview with ESOHub.de that “there won’t be anything like bonus points, but we will have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too like name changes and things like that”.
Given the games focus on PvP at end game, it is a fairly short leap to conclude that the cash shop will ultimately move to a P2W model. Gating entire races behind additional cost as with the CE is just the start. This is an acid test to guage fan reaction and assess what they can and can not get away with charging for when the cash shop does go live. This is exactly how the CM began to phase into SWTOR. They even tried selling additional story content in their cash shop but only id it once due to the backlash from subs.
And when I talk about financial and emotional investment of course I am not referring to feeling suicidal or anything like that, why do you need to take things to extremes just to exagerate my point in order to belittle it?
I am referring to the financial cost of supprting a game for 6-12 months only to find out I have to drop it because the devs seem fond of U turns on decisions such as adding cash shops to the game. I am also referring to the emotional investment in spending 6 - 12 months developing a character only to have to drop the game and realise I wasted six months of my time.
It's a far cry from the ESO devs original claims that they would never introduce shops and MTs.
At least now I have the actual quote where an official source confirms a cash shop is incoming. Therefore the thread has served its purpose for me in terms of obtaining that clarification. Now I just need to decide whether the game is worth the risk or whether it will end up being just another cash shop grind fest settling for 200-300k subs just to milk them with MTs.
Thanks to those posters who were able to provide helpful and rational responses
By some players logic that I have seen in these forums, and most games that I play. ESO is already pay to win.
Because those who buy the game have a unfair advantage over those who didn't buy the game, due to the fact those people get to play it. Along with some ranting about how it's bullshit, because all games should be free, and the devs should be paid by skimming off the top of Obama care.
Really though all you have to do, is look at the history of the developers and publisher in question (if there is any) and determine a baseline for what will happen if it does go free to play.
With ESO having such a focus on AvA PvP endgame, how likely is it that the game goes P2W once the cash shop is introduced?
With PvE centric MMORPGs such as SWTOR, there are genuinely no P2W mechanics, despite the CM being such a revenue focus.
With ESO I am concerned that the 90% focus on PvP at endgame will mean their iteration of a cash shop becomes blatantly P2W. The devs have already broken promises and changed design philosophies with regard to alliance limitations etc, even been guilty of borderline bait and switch with the needless money grab to pay gate races.
Is it worth the financial and emotional investment if the game will end up a P2W sham fest inside a year?
Driz
Your basically saying that all PvP-centric games with a cash shop are P2W, therefore if ESO implements a cash shop it will also go P2W.
In reality there are VERY few MMORPGs which are legitimately P2W. If you want to see what P2W really looks like, take a look at the free mobile games out there. You'd be hard-pressed to find an actual example of a MMORPG with P2W cash shop, let alone something as openly P2W as some mobile game.
lol...you are being misleading when using the phrase "he considers pay to win".
When I say P2W I mean the definition that 99% of people subscribe to, that being any item, ability, consumable and/or other mechanic that provides a tangible advantage, over and above the purely cosmetic in return the real world money.
So no, the title is not misleading at all....
Driz
It has to be a tangible advantage in PvP in order to be "P2W," because PvP is the only competitive element in the game. If you aren't competing with someone, you can't be "winning." Something could give you +10,000 damage, and if it only worked in the PvE areas, it still wouldn't be P2W.
Originally posted by fs23otm
ESO does not have a cash shop. It will not go F2P.
Unrealistic to expect it won't add a free option at some point. The shape of the modern MMO market disagrees with you.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
With ESO having such a focus on AvA PvP endgame, how likely is it that the game goes P2W once the cash shop is introduced?
With PvE centric MMORPGs such as SWTOR, there are genuinely no P2W mechanics, despite the CM being such a revenue focus.
With ESO I am concerned that the 90% focus on PvP at endgame will mean their iteration of a cash shop becomes blatantly P2W. The devs have already broken promises and changed design philosophies with regard to alliance limitations etc, even been guilty of borderline bait and switch with the needless money grab to pay gate races.
Is it worth the financial and emotional investment if the game will end up a P2W sham fest inside a year?
Driz
Are you able to cite anything you have watched or read from an official source that would indicate that the game would go P2W? Because, I have not read or seen anything to that regard.
From what I have read though is that a cash shop will be introduced with more cosmetic and quality of life features that in no way affect the balance of the game.
It should also be worth mentioning that a lot of people confuse P2W. The idea of P2W is that people can buy an advantage over other players and as such, 'paying' gives you better odds at success. If you can purchase end game gear for example it is not 'P2W' if the average non-paying member can earn equal to in game. It's just two forms of currencies, time and money.
Although a lot of people take issue with people buying gear, I on the other hand do not. If I can afford to invest 20-40 hours a week on an MMO then my 'time' pays for what I do. If you can only get in 4-5 hours a week then paying for gear is a good way for those people to remain current and competitive.
P2W arguments always end with someone butthurt that someone else has more money than them.
But, more on topic, yes you should get invested if the game is compelling to you. Thinking about 'what if' is just plain silly. If you applied that attitude to every day life, you'd never leave the house.
With ESO having such a focus on AvA PvP endgame, how likely is it that the game goes P2W once the cash shop is introduced?
With PvE centric MMORPGs such as SWTOR, there are genuinely no P2W mechanics, despite the CM being such a revenue focus.
With ESO I am concerned that the 90% focus on PvP at endgame will mean their iteration of a cash shop becomes blatantly P2W. The devs have already broken promises and changed design philosophies with regard to alliance limitations etc, even been guilty of borderline bait and switch with the needless money grab to pay gate races.
Is it worth the financial and emotional investment if the game will end up a P2W sham fest inside a year?
Driz
Seriously? First of all, quite the flight your assumptions and predictions took there bud. Also, WORTH FINANCIAL AND EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT IF - what the frack? Just what the heck gaming is to you? If you are worried about going suicidal in case a game takes direction you dont like, then it is absolutely essential for your survival to not play games. Others will just quit at that time and roll the next one.
Not really, the games devs have confirmed there is going to be a cash shop:
"Game director Matt Firor said in a video interview with ESOHub.de that “there won’t be anything like bonus points, but we will have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too like name changes and things like that”.
Given the games focus on PvP at end game, it is a fairly short leap to conclude that the cash shop will ultimately move to a P2W model. Gating entire races behind additional cost as with the CE is just the start. This is an acid test to guage fan reaction and assess what they can and can not get away with charging for when the cash shop does go live. This is exactly how the CM began to phase into SWTOR. They even tried selling additional story content in their cash shop but only id it once due to the backlash from subs.
And when I talk about financial and emotional investment of course I am not referring to feeling suicidal or anything like that, why do you need to take things to extremes just to exagerate my point in order to belittle it?
I am referring to the financial cost of supprting a game for 6-12 months only to find out I have to drop it because the devs seem fond of U turns on decisions such as adding cash shops to the game. I am also referring to the emotional investment in spending 6 - 12 months developing a character only to have to drop the game and realise I wasted six months of my time.
It's a far cry from the ESO devs original claims that they would never introduce shops and MTs.
At least now I have the actual quote where an official source confirms a cash shop is incoming. Therefore the thread has served its purpose for me in terms of obtaining that clarification. Now I just need to decide whether the game is worth the risk or whether it will end up being just another cash shop grind fest settling for 200-300k subs just to milk them with MTs.
Thanks to those posters who were able to provide helpful and rational responses
Driz
Isn't the short version of this, "I'm a big Wildstar fan and or EQN fan. ESO is the only MMO with flaws. Better steer people to the game(s) I want to play."
You couldn't be more wrong. I have been a huge ES fan for years and have played every title in the series thus far. I'm also a huge FO3 fan. Cartooney themeparks are not my thing at all and I have only the most passing interest in some of the things I have seen and read about WS.
Comments
No. CE mount is white afaik. Also, afaik, CE stuff isn't available in beta.
It's 17k gold to buy a mount, which isn't easy to make, but by level 15-20, if you save up, you should be able to get one.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Thanks
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
If you bought the CE edition the mount was 100g from the stable in the beta, but the other CE items were not available.
Pointless speculation. No-one can see the future, so no-one can answer you.
Yep, I had the same reaction when I read the OP.
The game isn't even out yet and people are already jumping to the wildest conclusions.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I think its time for you to make some decisions. I'm 36 yo with a job, a wife, a kid , a mortgage, a car and a dog but i do not have two running subscriptions and i do not plan on buying any game this year except for ESO.
You're clearly on the fence about buying this game so my advice to you would be to just wait it out at least 4 to 5 months maybe even a year and in the meantime you should unsub to one of those MMO's and plan on buying only three new titles instead of six. That'll save you a couple of bucks right? Probably enough bucks to get into ESO if you're still interested in the game. Hell maybe it's gone free to play by that time. Imagine all the cash that you saved up during the year that you can now spend in the f2pp2w cashshop.
I don't want to sound like a dick or anything but my pennies are hard earned too. I really have to be excited about a title to buy it full price and 9 times out of 10 I buy my games on discount (if i'm still remotely interested in them). This leaves me with enough money for the more important things that i've got going on in my life.
Please... Try googling.
http://www.elderscrollsonlinestrategy.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-to-feature-in-game-store-with-microtransactions/
"Game director Matt Firor said in a video interview with ESOHub.de that “there won’t be anything like bonus points, but we will have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too like name changes and things like that”.
Firor went on to claim that the microtransactions will “not be part of the core game”, and that “anything included in the core game is included in the subscription price”."
Name changes. Probably respecs (instead of paying gold.) Probably vanity pets just like the ones that come with the preorders. Possibly the ability to unlock imperial later on (Zeni has said the explorer's pack will not be available post preorder, but they said nothing about imperials.) And most likely stuff like fireworks or wands that let you do special emotes a certain number of times, or dances, or grow to stupid sizes, or other things you'd expect to see as rewards in WoW during one of their holiday events (at least that's generally what how I interpret "fun" stuff that doesn't affect gameplay.
Seriously? First of all, quite the flight your assumptions and predictions took there bud. Also, WORTH FINANCIAL AND EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT IF - what the frack? Just what the heck gaming is to you?
If you are worried about going suicidal in case a game takes direction you dont like, then it is absolutely essential for your survival to not play games. Others will just quit at that time and roll the next one.
Yeah, Play a game for what it is, when it is. Not for what it may (or may not) someday fork into. This was the same thing that happened in FF14 before its re-launch. Everyone claiming it will go F2P and all that. Yoshi said "no cash shop" and there is no cash shop. So, there are examples both ways. But if you spend all your time "waiting" for something to change, you might miss out on what it is before it changes.....if it ever does.
CE stuff wasn't available in Beta. And you still have to pay if you want to upgrade your CE mount to one of the advanced versions, like with any other mount.
There is no way to know. It can add a cash-shop and become P2W, it can add a cash-shop and NOT become P2W. It can get shut down because the company is broke. It can switch to a B2P model. It can get NGE'd and become a different game completely to appease some perceived audience.
If it switches to P2W, you can always stop paying and switch to something else.
None of the AAA MMOs that I've played that switched payment models away from sub have gone to P2W. P2W is more prominent among 2nd tier or out of market (especially asia-based) games. Almost all the AAA games that switch away from subs still keep the option to maintain your sub and have full access, so at worst, i think you'll have to keep paying the same sub as at launch.
Based on industry trends and experience, i would say that the likelyhood of the game switching models is quite high but the likelyhood of it switching to a P2W model is extremely low.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Not really, the games devs have confirmed there is going to be a cash shop:
"Game director Matt Firor said in a video interview with ESOHub.de that “there won’t be anything like bonus points, but we will have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too like name changes and things like that”.
Given the games focus on PvP at end game, it is a fairly short leap to conclude that the cash shop will ultimately move to a P2W model. Gating entire races behind additional cost as with the CE is just the start. This is an acid test to guage fan reaction and assess what they can and can not get away with charging for when the cash shop does go live. This is exactly how the CM began to phase into SWTOR. They even tried selling additional story content in their cash shop but only id it once due to the backlash from subs.
And when I talk about financial and emotional investment of course I am not referring to feeling suicidal or anything like that, why do you need to take things to extremes just to exagerate my point in order to belittle it?
I am referring to the financial cost of supprting a game for 6-12 months only to find out I have to drop it because the devs seem fond of U turns on decisions such as adding cash shops to the game. I am also referring to the emotional investment in spending 6 - 12 months developing a character only to have to drop the game and realise I wasted six months of my time.
It's a far cry from the ESO devs original claims that they would never introduce shops and MTs.
At least now I have the actual quote where an official source confirms a cash shop is incoming. Therefore the thread has served its purpose for me in terms of obtaining that clarification. Now I just need to decide whether the game is worth the risk or whether it will end up being just another cash shop grind fest settling for 200-300k subs just to milk them with MTs.
Thanks to those posters who were able to provide helpful and rational responses
Driz
I'm going to "pay" for the game and "win" at the game called chance.
By some players logic that I have seen in these forums, and most games that I play. ESO is already pay to win.
Because those who buy the game have a unfair advantage over those who didn't buy the game, due to the fact those people get to play it. Along with some ranting about how it's bullshit, because all games should be free, and the devs should be paid by skimming off the top of Obama care.
Really though all you have to do, is look at the history of the developers and publisher in question (if there is any) and determine a baseline for what will happen if it does go free to play.
"What tastes like purple?"
Your basically saying that all PvP-centric games with a cash shop are P2W, therefore if ESO implements a cash shop it will also go P2W.
In reality there are VERY few MMORPGs which are legitimately P2W. If you want to see what P2W really looks like, take a look at the free mobile games out there. You'd be hard-pressed to find an actual example of a MMORPG with P2W cash shop, let alone something as openly P2W as some mobile game.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Unrealistic to expect it won't add a free option at some point. The shape of the modern MMO market disagrees with you.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Are you able to cite anything you have watched or read from an official source that would indicate that the game would go P2W? Because, I have not read or seen anything to that regard.
From what I have read though is that a cash shop will be introduced with more cosmetic and quality of life features that in no way affect the balance of the game.
It should also be worth mentioning that a lot of people confuse P2W. The idea of P2W is that people can buy an advantage over other players and as such, 'paying' gives you better odds at success. If you can purchase end game gear for example it is not 'P2W' if the average non-paying member can earn equal to in game. It's just two forms of currencies, time and money.
Although a lot of people take issue with people buying gear, I on the other hand do not. If I can afford to invest 20-40 hours a week on an MMO then my 'time' pays for what I do. If you can only get in 4-5 hours a week then paying for gear is a good way for those people to remain current and competitive.
P2W arguments always end with someone butthurt that someone else has more money than them.
But, more on topic, yes you should get invested if the game is compelling to you. Thinking about 'what if' is just plain silly. If you applied that attitude to every day life, you'd never leave the house.
You couldn't be more wrong. I have been a huge ES fan for years and have played every title in the series thus far. I'm also a huge FO3 fan. Cartooney themeparks are not my thing at all and I have only the most passing interest in some of the things I have seen and read about WS.
Driz
If you considered what he mentioned... its possible.
The pvp uses gold for conquest, and if the cash shop is tied into that directly then it is blatantly p2w.
If the cash shop makes gold and indirectly helps pvp, then draw your own conclusions if its p2w or not...
However, points... what if... the cash shop is a p2w. it is possible.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble