I always liked the virtual world in a MMO, endgame usually means the end of the line for me in a themepark.
With that "insta 90" boost they are better off just deleting all the lvl1-89 zones and make it a lobby game where you wait for a instance game to pop up. For many people this is just WOW for them right now.
Log in to Stormwind/Orgrimmar/Panda hub and hop around/duel and wait for a raid/arena instance to pop up, rinse and repeat.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
This will have a greater impact on the community itself as you begin to realize that older content areas will be abandoned by the development team as who is going to dedicate resources to older content when the money is coming in from the insta boost.
This means no bug fixes or revamp of older content areas which means the people who do level get a cheapened experience in the long run.
Blizzard are not, and never have been naive/stupid. They are a business and want to make money (obviously), but they are being clever. This generation is hooked to instant gratification, so am guessing they will make quite a bit of cash from this "service". It's a consumer choice, will it adversely influence WoW? Personally I don't see it. The excuse of the skill gap is disingenuous, honestly how hard is WoW now...
"For what shall it profit a healer, if he gains the whole 90 levels, and suffer the wipe of his PuG?"
Originally posted by Ozmodan I do not understand what the uproar is about. If people want to pay it let them. It certainly does not effect anyone else.
But it does effect everybody else.
It will effect the way in which the games and the gameplay are designed in the future.
No it wont.
ITS A TEN YEAR OLD GAME WITH MINIMAL NEW PLAYERS
And its only to skip the old leveling content, not the current leveling content.
You have to consider that many unsubscribed players occasionally return to WoW. So those returning players are now lower level than someone else who just bought advancement? It's not floating well with me.
No, you are both on the same level, everybody gets at least 1 free advancement to 90...why is everyone forgetting this?? lol
Options are a good thing. Nobody is being forced to skip anything.
Level 90 won't be the cap, just the start of the new content.
Some people like to level (I'm one of them); some people don't ... why make them do the part they don't like to get to the part they do? It doesn't affect anybody else in any meaningful way. If anything, it's a benefit to all - only a small percentage of revenue goes into profit, the rest of it goes back into the game (or other games/costs/etc), so their $60 is benefiting game development, etc.
Blizzard and WoW have survived this long, in large part, because they're pretty good at figuring out what works and what doesn't, what people like and what they don't. They're not perfect, for sure, but they almost certainly know a lot more about the gaming community than me and the rest of the scrubs in this forum.
There are an unlimited number of spaces available for level 90+ characters in the game. Someone else rolling a brand new 90 isn't going to cause a scarcity of resources for yours, in fact, based on my experience, the more players there are in the game, the better and more fun the play is. So if this feature attracts new people or brings back people who quit, it will make things better for us.
If people are so bitter and angry at Blizzard, and so tired of the game that they think leveling to 90 is or was a painful chore, and they would resent people who didn't have to suffer along with them on the grind, those people really should just find a new hobby. They're obviously not having fun anymore and need to move on.
What this kind of nonsense does is lower my already diminishing opinion of Blizzard even more. Blizzard used to be a company that I highly respected. I still respect what they did in the past, but lately they seem to be much more about bleeding players than about quality gaming.
As great as WoW was and somewhat still is, it's still the reason the MMORPG genre as a whole sucks donkey today. The genre was totally fine preWoW, and was completely group-based with challenging games. It didn't need "wider appeal" or "casuals." Since WoW hit there have been zero mainstream MMORPGs with a classic take (of almost no solo, group heavy, challenge and consequence from the start) and just a bunch of games called MMORPGs that are basically single player games with the real MMORPG parts being optional. Add on one crappy PvP implementation after another, F2P trash, cash shops, and more.
Pretty much everything WoW brought in to the genre and that has been fallout from WoW have utterly sucked for people who played the original MMORPGs and who want true MMORPG gameplay. And now, today, MMORPGs are a joke and don't even really resemble what the genre SHOULD be all about.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
I quit Wow last December because I just couldnt bring myself to play a game where the devs were obviously struggling for content. The sheer number of dailies in MoP really stands out as a black eye to the story dept.
As much as I hated Wrath for its monty python stupidity... its far better than the Cata rewrite or the MoP follow up. Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath had wonderful storylines and brought you deep into the lore of the game. I find this lacking since Cataclysm, and I fear what they will screw up with WoD.
I could be wrong and they might get back on track.. but after two horrible expansions content wise I cannot bring myself to endure the possibility they will screw up what Wonderful back story they already have.
New instant 90 buyers will have like a tutorial and given their abilities over time so they can get used to them. I don't think it will be hard for new people to play their classes. Veterans might have an edge but I don't think new players will be completely unfunctional.
Consider when you play a new MMO... Players aren't complete failures at playing a new game so why would they be with WoW?
There is something serious wrong at the core with the idea of being able to skip content in the blink of an eye.
What if you did that with a book? You'd have no idea whats going on.
What if you did that with your work/school or job? You'd probably get fired.
What if you did that with your health? You probably wouldn't be healthy anymore
You can't just skip things, to be were you want. Oh I leveled 8 characters to 90 already..Don't want to level anymore. (You have 8 characters why do you need more?)
Welp I drive an hour a day, I am tired so I am going take a short cut, and go down a one way road since it be faster!
Welp I I've played golf four years, you know what just put me down with par because I know I can do it but rather not swing today.
Its devaluating the level process. I am a completionist from time to time, when I like the game, collecting all Stars in SuperMario, leveling all classes in an RPG, getting all collectibles.
I even don't mind when it takes a lot of hours. But I just can't do it when I know that there is a cheat available which completes the tasks within seconds, its a strange feeling that destroys all the joy. I wonder if this will now happen too when I level a new twink in WoW.
I don't understand the problem. You don't have to purchase a level 90 boost. You can still level through the old content if you choose to do so. I'm happy with the free boost, which is all I need. But why should people with multiple max alts be required to quest in the barrens, hellfire, storm peaks, etc, over and over again. That's not fun. Most people level alts with heirlooms and chain run instances or pvp their way up. There again people are already missing out on the majority of low level content. Pvp at low levels are unbalanced. Got to love those rogues hiding out in the middle of the field, just waiting to one shot you. That's not fun. But the fun isn't in running through the low level content you've ran 6 or 7 times before, its the end game everyone wants to play. I don't see why it would concern anyone whose not going to use the service. Worried bout skill? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to play wow. 90% of players look online to find out how to play their class anyways. And isn't that why LFR was created. Half of a LFR seem to be struggling with issues. $60 seems to be a fair price for those wanting to use the service, since you'd have to buy all the games and then a transfer fee to switch the boosted alt onto your main account. To the players saying they will not be returning to wow, no hate here. I've had to take my breaks from WOW from time to time, but I don't see any game out that will be any better. They said GW2 would be better, so I bought it and didn't get far. I've heard Wildstar several times, but I don't think it will come close to WOD. I've been waiting on ESO, but from what I hear and seen from beta videos, it looks just ok. But time will tell on these games. But this all is just MY opinion. Sorry to those who took the time to read this, I tend to write to much when voicing said opinion.
I just want to say, that's a new low, go lazy with your wallets, insta-cheat your way to the end! I despite that cash shop option and i hope it doesn't spread in any other game.
I thought the whole idea of the revamped low level areas in Cata was to make leveling more fun...guess it didn't work.
For me, the first time through, leveling was fun and i met a whole bunch of great people along the way (inc my Partner). Second time (third, fourth etc...) lvling was/is a real pain for me, just so boring doing it all again. I think having the option to skip is great BUT, I really think it should be as with the DK.. have at least one high lvl char before you have the option to buy more.
Like someone else said above somewhere. Most people that play WoW, already have multiple max level characters and probably will welcome the $60 to skip all the leveling they've done already so many times, I know I would if I still played and IF I liked playing alts much I stuck with one of two characters when I played WoW though.
By the time a game is 10 years old or so, it's impossible to play the lower levels 'as they were intended'. Stat inflation makes that a joke as it trivializes most of the content. The leveling process is for many, just pure mind numbing boredom, especially if you are an experienced mmo player.
Fundamentally this is a design flaw. The developers are basically saying ya we know that part of the game is broken now, but you can pay to just skip over it! What they should do is have everyone start out at a higher level as a game ages. Enough so that you can skip the content that's been largely trivialized, but not all the way to end game, maybe 75% or so up the ladder. And it's a core feature for subscribers.
On top of that throw in something like the EQ2 mentoring feature, so you can go back to lower levels if you want to experience that content, and still get experience doing so.
It's not worth your time thinking about what other people do with their money. Unless you are trying to take it.
Love the language used in these threads as well. Get a dictionary; you're using words wrong.
You might wan't to take your own advise as it's "you're using words wrongly" not "you're using words wrong". Egg on your face ?
As to the discussion then well , it stinks , not the discussion but the fact they are giving and selling maxed characters ( well level 90 characters ).
The person on the first page that said it won't affect them in any way is wrong , unless he/she solos exclusively.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
Actually 'wrong' is being used correctly here. The word 'wrong' is acceptable in informal communication and must follow the verb. If the writer is worried about formality and their target audience then they should use wrongly (which can both precede and follow the verb), but wrong is not incorrect. The language is living and evolving and grammar rules change. There is no "egg on your face" here.
Instant 90s are bad because you say so? How about providing a reason for that? You may not like it, but what does that matter? I don't like raiding either, but that doesn't stop others from doing the deed.
I'm not taking advice from someone using advise as a noun.
Cheers.
I was just trying to make a point about how stupid his/her grammar policing actually is. Yeah again see more proof , obviously that was a typo.
In fact you are both wrong , the correct English sentence is " You're using the words in the wrong way" , but I digress. Still ridiculous that you are both concentrating on grammar and not the actual context of what the users on here are trying to express. Anyway , grammar policing is banned on most forums. It is pointless , unless you can't make head nor tail of what someone has typed.
Back to the actual topic at hand , the problem with selling and giving away free level 90 characters within an MMO with the cap being 90 , soon to be 100 , is basically that they are going to ruin their community. The segregation between veterans and fresh noob 90's will be horrendous. I see a lot think it's okay , but what was the whole point of someone buying all those expansions and now the company is making them basically obsolete ? That's fine by you is it ? Another thing isn't one of the reasons for playing an MMO to actually level up and enjoy leveling up ( in a leveling game of course ).
Anyway it will speed up WOW's death , not much content between 90 - 100 , so okay go ahead Blizzard more MMO players for other MMO's in a few months.
I shall end with a quote from my brother , after I told him of this. He said " It's like telling someone they can run the marathon , but if they pay a few dollars they can start it , a few feet away from the finishing line and that we will make sure you get first place."
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.
Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.
Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.
EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.
It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.
In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.
Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.
Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.
EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.
It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.
Disagree. I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game. Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me. It was a good chance to meet new people. I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW. The quests are fun.
Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards. Group quests were removed, for instance.
So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience. But it wasn't always that way. So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.
Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE. So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable. SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright. It just leaves a WTF feeling. It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them? Oh.....Thanks for the info =D
I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.
Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.
The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.
Comments
I always liked the virtual world in a MMO, endgame usually means the end of the line for me in a themepark.
With that "insta 90" boost they are better off just deleting all the lvl1-89 zones and make it a lobby game where you wait for a instance game to pop up. For many people this is just WOW for them right now.
Log in to Stormwind/Orgrimmar/Panda hub and hop around/duel and wait for a raid/arena instance to pop up, rinse and repeat.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
This will have a greater impact on the community itself as you begin to realize that older content areas will be abandoned by the development team as who is going to dedicate resources to older content when the money is coming in from the insta boost.
This means no bug fixes or revamp of older content areas which means the people who do level get a cheapened experience in the long run.
"Onward to adventure".
Blizzard are not, and never have been naive/stupid. They are a business and want to make money (obviously), but they are being clever. This generation is hooked to instant gratification, so am guessing they will make quite a bit of cash from this "service". It's a consumer choice, will it adversely influence WoW? Personally I don't see it. The excuse of the skill gap is disingenuous, honestly how hard is WoW now...
"For what shall it profit a healer, if he gains the whole 90 levels, and suffer the wipe of his PuG?"
No, you are both on the same level, everybody gets at least 1 free advancement to 90...why is everyone forgetting this?? lol
Probably some of this is repeated, but:
Nice article.
What this kind of nonsense does is lower my already diminishing opinion of Blizzard even more. Blizzard used to be a company that I highly respected. I still respect what they did in the past, but lately they seem to be much more about bleeding players than about quality gaming.
As great as WoW was and somewhat still is, it's still the reason the MMORPG genre as a whole sucks donkey today. The genre was totally fine preWoW, and was completely group-based with challenging games. It didn't need "wider appeal" or "casuals." Since WoW hit there have been zero mainstream MMORPGs with a classic take (of almost no solo, group heavy, challenge and consequence from the start) and just a bunch of games called MMORPGs that are basically single player games with the real MMORPG parts being optional. Add on one crappy PvP implementation after another, F2P trash, cash shops, and more.
Pretty much everything WoW brought in to the genre and that has been fallout from WoW have utterly sucked for people who played the original MMORPGs and who want true MMORPG gameplay. And now, today, MMORPGs are a joke and don't even really resemble what the genre SHOULD be all about.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
I quit Wow last December because I just couldnt bring myself to play a game where the devs were obviously struggling for content. The sheer number of dailies in MoP really stands out as a black eye to the story dept.
As much as I hated Wrath for its monty python stupidity... its far better than the Cata rewrite or the MoP follow up. Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath had wonderful storylines and brought you deep into the lore of the game. I find this lacking since Cataclysm, and I fear what they will screw up with WoD.
I could be wrong and they might get back on track.. but after two horrible expansions content wise I cannot bring myself to endure the possibility they will screw up what Wonderful back story they already have.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
New instant 90 buyers will have like a tutorial and given their abilities over time so they can get used to them. I don't think it will be hard for new people to play their classes. Veterans might have an edge but I don't think new players will be completely unfunctional.
Consider when you play a new MMO... Players aren't complete failures at playing a new game so why would they be with WoW?
I think we have all lost it.
There is something serious wrong at the core with the idea of being able to skip content in the blink of an eye.
You can't just skip things, to be were you want. Oh I leveled 8 characters to 90 already..Don't want to level anymore. (You have 8 characters why do you need more?)
Welp de blah blah!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Its devaluating the level process. I am a completionist from time to time, when I like the game, collecting all Stars in SuperMario, leveling all classes in an RPG, getting all collectibles.
I even don't mind when it takes a lot of hours. But I just can't do it when I know that there is a cheat available which completes the tasks within seconds, its a strange feeling that destroys all the joy. I wonder if this will now happen too when I level a new twink in WoW.
There's no interdependence in WoW with players prior to max level so i don't see a problem with it.
Now if this were a new game or at the same time, an old school game where leveling mattered, i would find this unacceptable.
The real aspect we should be looking at is why the journey no longer matters and why other players no longer matter prior to cap.
I thought the whole idea of the revamped low level areas in Cata was to make leveling more fun...guess it didn't work.
For me, the first time through, leveling was fun and i met a whole bunch of great people along the way (inc my Partner). Second time (third, fourth etc...) lvling was/is a real pain for me, just so boring doing it all again. I think having the option to skip is great BUT, I really think it should be as with the DK.. have at least one high lvl char before you have the option to buy more.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
By the time a game is 10 years old or so, it's impossible to play the lower levels 'as they were intended'. Stat inflation makes that a joke as it trivializes most of the content. The leveling process is for many, just pure mind numbing boredom, especially if you are an experienced mmo player.
Fundamentally this is a design flaw. The developers are basically saying ya we know that part of the game is broken now, but you can pay to just skip over it! What they should do is have everyone start out at a higher level as a game ages. Enough so that you can skip the content that's been largely trivialized, but not all the way to end game, maybe 75% or so up the ladder. And it's a core feature for subscribers.
On top of that throw in something like the EQ2 mentoring feature, so you can go back to lower levels if you want to experience that content, and still get experience doing so.
I was just trying to make a point about how stupid his/her grammar policing actually is. Yeah again see more proof , obviously that was a typo.
In fact you are both wrong , the correct English sentence is " You're using the words in the wrong way" , but I digress. Still ridiculous that you are both concentrating on grammar and not the actual context of what the users on here are trying to express. Anyway , grammar policing is banned on most forums. It is pointless , unless you can't make head nor tail of what someone has typed.
Back to the actual topic at hand , the problem with selling and giving away free level 90 characters within an MMO with the cap being 90 , soon to be 100 , is basically that they are going to ruin their community. The segregation between veterans and fresh noob 90's will be horrendous. I see a lot think it's okay , but what was the whole point of someone buying all those expansions and now the company is making them basically obsolete ? That's fine by you is it ? Another thing isn't one of the reasons for playing an MMO to actually level up and enjoy leveling up ( in a leveling game of course ).
Anyway it will speed up WOW's death , not much content between 90 - 100 , so okay go ahead Blizzard more MMO players for other MMO's in a few months.
I shall end with a quote from my brother , after I told him of this. He said " It's like telling someone they can run the marathon , but if they pay a few dollars they can start it , a few feet away from the finishing line and that we will make sure you get first place."
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
In theory, this provides a very bad incentive to game companies - make your leveling process so tedious that people pay you to avoid it.
Not only does this practice de-value leveling, it actually assigns it a negative value.
Leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost always of no value, especially in endgame focused themeparks as old as EQ2 and WoW.
EQ2's reason for selling high level charecters is the same as WoW's, they are both reallllly old, new players would like the option of skipping the content they have already completed hundreds of times, and new players want to play with their friends ASAP. The ratio of players that fall into those 2 catagories, versus a brand new player trying out either game just to try its leveling content 10 years after release, is like 1000000000000:1.
It did not break EQ2 when they did it, and it will not break WoW. WoW at least gives you one for free, not just the option to try one out.
Disagree. I found tremendous value in the leveling experience with WoW and other games, even though they had end-game. Leveling alts was entertaining enough, as I would come across other people in the same boat as me. It was a good chance to meet new people. I leveled many alts, and it's fun, especially in this case, for WoW. The quests are fun.
Of course WoW did deteriorate when it comes to questing, Cataclysm onwards. Group quests were removed, for instance.
So, WoW, may have created their own demise to lead to paid for leveling services, by dumbing down the entire leveling experience. But it wasn't always that way. So saying leveling in endgame focused themeparks was almost of no value is a complete mis-statement.
Moving on, people expect more from Blizzard than they expect from SOE. So justifying a high revenue game (WoW) by saying it's OK because a low revenue game (EQ2) also does it, is laughable. SWTOR fans justified EA decisions by saying DDO does something similar, so it's perfectly alright. It just leaves a WTF feeling. It's OK for a Porsche to have plastic seats because other cheapie cars have them? Oh.....Thanks for the info =D
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
I enjoy levelling and I have over 12 characters at max level however the problem with WoW today is the levelling EXPERIENCE today is no where near that of what it was back in 2004.
Today you cant even finish the quests in each zone before you out level it, you sit in a dungeon queue as apposed to finding it and making your way there, you face roll a dungeon with people in BOA's getting no learning or experience from it. All the time suffering abuse from the BOA champions for your shit DPS, HPS or damage soaking ability. You get riding at L20 for a pittance. etc. etc.
The EXPERIENCE for a NEW player today is terrible an I can understand why there is a skip option.