How many MMORPG's show you your opponents skill icons so that you can see what their cooldowns are doing ?
Because that's basically what you see when looking at someone's Stamina and Magika bars in ESO.
Wildstar, Rift, TSW, FFXIV, SWTOR... to name a few recent ones where i could see debuffs and buffs when i had them highlighted... except some of these would actually show you how much time was left on each one as well... some even show you the ability name and what they were casting when they were casting so you could interrupt it.
Buff and debuff icons do not even remotely tell you what someone's skill cooldowns are doing.
How many MMORPG's show you your opponents skill icons so that you can see what their cooldowns are doing ?
Because that's basically what you see when looking at someone's Stamina and Magika bars in ESO.
Wildstar, Rift, TSW, FFXIV, SWTOR... to name a few recent ones where i could see debuffs and buffs when i had them highlighted... except some of these would actually show you how much time was left on each one as well... some even show you the ability name and what they were casting when they were casting so you could interrupt it.
Buff and debuff icons do not even remotely tell you what someone's skill cooldowns are doing.
You can say the same about seeing how much stam and magicka someone has... many games show you how much mana an opponent has and even tell you the name of the cast.. and any smart pvper knows how long cooldowns are for abiilities of EVERY class they play against.. its called research.. so what if it makes it easier for those who didn't take the time to read up on other players... its not handicapping you at all... if you were aware, you would already know what it is and then if anything.. it would put them on an even playing field with you. If not... then learn their abilities....
Anyways.. this isn't even the topic of the thread... it's the OP asking for an add-on free Cyrodil. Im all for it.. but it really doesn't matter to me whether or not people use add-ons.. doesn't change the flow of the game at all for me because I like to do research.
How many MMORPG's show you your opponents skill icons so that you can see what their cooldowns are doing ?
Because that's basically what you see when looking at someone's Stamina and Magika bars in ESO.
Wildstar, Rift, TSW, FFXIV, SWTOR... to name a few recent ones where i could see debuffs and buffs when i had them highlighted... except some of these would actually show you how much time was left on each one as well... some even show you the ability name and what they were casting when they were casting so you could interrupt it.
Buff and debuff icons do not even remotely tell you what someone's skill cooldowns are doing.
You can say the same about seeing how much stam and magicka someone has... many games show you how much mana an opponent has
Absolutely !
But seeing how much mana someone has is not that useful when their ability to cast is determined primarily by the their skill cooldowns. He may have a full mana bar, but will that nuke or stun only be off cd in 8 secs from now ?
How many MMORPG's show you your opponents skill icons so that you can see what their cooldowns are doing ?
Because that's basically what you see when looking at someone's Stamina and Magika bars in ESO.
Wildstar, Rift, TSW, FFXIV, SWTOR... to name a few recent ones where i could see debuffs and buffs when i had them highlighted... except some of these would actually show you how much time was left on each one as well... some even show you the ability name and what they were casting when they were casting so you could interrupt it.
Buff and debuff icons do not even remotely tell you what someone's skill cooldowns are doing.
You can say the same about seeing how much stam and magicka someone has... many games show you how much mana an opponent has
Absolutely !
But seeing how much mana someone has is not that useful when their ability to cast is determined primarily by the their skill cooldowns. He may have a full mana bar, but will that nuke or stun only be off cd in 8 secs from now ?
But seeing how much mana someone has is not that useful when their ability to cast is determined primarily by the their skill cooldowns. He may have a full mana bar, but will that nuke or stun only be off cd in 8 secs from now ?
Or are you 0.5 secs away from being fried ?
Read my post above
I did. My point still stands.
The ideal solution would be to have campaigns that allow more or less info to be passed via the API. That way all styles of play can be satisfied.
The entire first half of your post is still just your opinion. If they were in any way facts they would be supported by imperical evidence. Saying 2 + 2 = 4 is an irrefutable fact.
Saying addons are bad just because you personally think their effects are negative is not a fact. It is your personal opinion and as such can be refuted by any one at any time.
Regarding your failed apples analogy. The person choosing to remain with 1 apple is at no disadvantage. That person chose to stay at 1 apple when they could have easily picked another from the tree. Therefore they were happy with their choice at the time. If they were not happy to stay with 1 apple they WOULD have picked another. Therefore any hunger felt is a symptom of their decisions and if they are happy to stay with 1 apple and feel hungry later that is down to them. They are accountable for their choices. The apple tree and all of the apples on the tree were available to everyone...just like the API is...
You're trying to refute the wrong arguments. I clearly stated a list of items for you to refute. You have failed to do this.
If the person wants to compete - they don't have a choice. If they don't use the add-ons... they're going to lose. It's that simple.
This is what you're arguing:
Someone who wants to be highly competitive in a game where everyone else who is highly competitive uses add-ons which grant them advantages in combat is going to somehow make the choice to not use these add-ons...
...
This is beyond dumb. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time responding to this non-sense.
If you feel so strongly that addons are wrong, you will choose not to use them and just suck up the few extra deaths here and there.
If you feel so strongly that addons are vital you will choose to use them and score a few extra kills because of it.
The game does not prevent you from PvPing without mods. It's down to personal preference.
Your arguement that other people using them removes your free will is so overly dramatic it's nonsense.
Noone has removed your free will to do or not do anything. You gather the available info, weigh up the pros and cons and then make a decision which you feel best suits YOU.
If I buy the game, I may use a few addons but I will not use all of them and do you know why that is? Because NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO......
Adapt or die. That's a simple fact of life. It holds true here as well. I'm not concerned about winning some and losing some. I'm concerned about the battle being swayed against me in the first place.
If I want to stay competitive, I will have to use the add-ons. I don't recall ever saying I was forced to do anything. I simply said my choice in the matter doesn't exist. If I choose not to use add-ons... then I am choosing to lose against people who do. This renders my choice as an invalid option, and consequently, non-existent. You still have said nothing to refute this. Typing it caps does not make your argument stronger or more correct. You guys have been saying the same thing the whole time... and it wasn't correct the first time.
Anyway, apparently the new post about add-ons has cleared this up a bit. Hopefully they will prevent the API being used in such a way that prevents macro-building and knowing information about another player. As you can see - the wheels are already turning - just as they should be. We made a loud enough splash for them to look into this matter, and I think the devs are going to take the more reasonable decision on this matter. I'm sorry it probably won't end in your favor.
I hate to say this but the biggest issue even for a basic add-on is the Stamina and Magicka levels. An add-on that shows information that in no way is represented by the stock UI and isn't really represented in a lot of games with PVP. Especially with a game based on limited resources, you now have a huge advantage over a non add on player. They can never know if you have or haven't enough stamina to CC break.. and you ALWAYS know when they can/can't use CC break. You know when they are out of Magicka too, so that becomes a distinct advantage too. Health should be fine, because numerical or bar, it still relay the same information.
Precisely the reason that ESO is the only themepark mmorpg I know of that doesnt include your targets stamina bar as part of the default UI.
Those of us asking for things like
Target health
Target action/magika
Target cast bar
Player and target buffs
are not asking for things that most other games DONT give you in the sense we want an advantage. We are asking for the things that all other themepark mmorpgs give you as part of the default UI.
Go check a few out, like SWTOR, WoW, GW2, Aion, AoC, Wildstar, Rift, for example and you will see what I mean.
Nah - I've played those games. I no longer play them for a lot of reasons. Why can't you guys just let this game be different? Seriously. Zenimax gives us an honest to goodness new fresh look at an MMO, and all you guys want to do is turn it back into what you've already played.
I hate to say this but the biggest issue even for a basic add-on is the Stamina and Magicka levels. An add-on that shows information that in no way is represented by the stock UI and isn't really represented in a lot of games with PVP. Especially with a game based on limited resources, you now have a huge advantage over a non add on player. They can never know if you have or haven't enough stamina to CC break.. and you ALWAYS know when they can/can't use CC break. You know when they are out of Magicka too, so that becomes a distinct advantage too. Health should be fine, because numerical or bar, it still relay the same information.
Precisely the reason that ESO is the only themepark mmorpg I know of that doesnt include your targets stamina bar as part of the default UI.
Those of us asking for things like
Target health
Target action/magika
Target cast bar
Player and target buffs
are not asking for things that most other games DONT give you in the sense we want an advantage. We are asking for the things that all other themepark mmorpgs give you as part of the default UI.
Go check a few out, like SWTOR, WoW, GW2, Aion, AoC, Wildstar, Rift, for example and you will see what I mean.
Some of those games don't even have a Mana pool/stamina pool they only rely on cooldown timers only which you cannot see the current action on, it's like you just whipped up a bunch of random MMOs without knowing what you are talking about. Good job. Several of those you can only see HP bars. If you doubt me you can google PVP for each game and figure out where you went horribly wrong.
Wow...great job cherry picking...thats just desperate.
All those games have a health bar and SOME form of secondary bar. They all have buffs/debuffs, most of them have cast bars, most have target of target.
And guess what, ALL of them have the courtesy to show you this information on the UI frames. They dont exepct you to guess.
Comments
Buff and debuff icons do not even remotely tell you what someone's skill cooldowns are doing.
You can say the same about seeing how much stam and magicka someone has... many games show you how much mana an opponent has and even tell you the name of the cast.. and any smart pvper knows how long cooldowns are for abiilities of EVERY class they play against.. its called research.. so what if it makes it easier for those who didn't take the time to read up on other players... its not handicapping you at all... if you were aware, you would already know what it is and then if anything.. it would put them on an even playing field with you. If not... then learn their abilities....
Anyways.. this isn't even the topic of the thread... it's the OP asking for an add-on free Cyrodil. Im all for it.. but it really doesn't matter to me whether or not people use add-ons.. doesn't change the flow of the game at all for me because I like to do research.
Absolutely !
But seeing how much mana someone has is not that useful when their ability to cast is determined primarily by the their skill cooldowns. He may have a full mana bar, but will that nuke or stun only be off cd in 8 secs from now ?
Or are you 0.5 secs away from being fried ?
No add-on is going to save anyone from my iron heeled boot sans actual hacks, which I wouldn't even consider add-ons.
Them looking at all my stats is irrelevant when I'm cutting them in half and crushing their healer under the weight of my awesometude.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Read my post above
I did. My point still stands.
The ideal solution would be to have campaigns that allow more or less info to be passed via the API. That way all styles of play can be satisfied.
Adapt or die. That's a simple fact of life. It holds true here as well. I'm not concerned about winning some and losing some. I'm concerned about the battle being swayed against me in the first place.
If I want to stay competitive, I will have to use the add-ons. I don't recall ever saying I was forced to do anything. I simply said my choice in the matter doesn't exist. If I choose not to use add-ons... then I am choosing to lose against people who do. This renders my choice as an invalid option, and consequently, non-existent. You still have said nothing to refute this. Typing it caps does not make your argument stronger or more correct. You guys have been saying the same thing the whole time... and it wasn't correct the first time.
Anyway, apparently the new post about add-ons has cleared this up a bit. Hopefully they will prevent the API being used in such a way that prevents macro-building and knowing information about another player. As you can see - the wheels are already turning - just as they should be. We made a loud enough splash for them to look into this matter, and I think the devs are going to take the more reasonable decision on this matter. I'm sorry it probably won't end in your favor.
Nah - I've played those games. I no longer play them for a lot of reasons. Why can't you guys just let this game be different? Seriously. Zenimax gives us an honest to goodness new fresh look at an MMO, and all you guys want to do is turn it back into what you've already played.
I simply don't understand that.
Wow...great job cherry picking...thats just desperate.
All those games have a health bar and SOME form of secondary bar. They all have buffs/debuffs, most of them have cast bars, most have target of target.
And guess what, ALL of them have the courtesy to show you this information on the UI frames. They dont exepct you to guess.
Your arguement is flawed.