It's not OP. Good luck trying to run down an Orc, or and Imperial that heals himself while attacking and has more hp than you, etc. Each race has it's advantages or disadvantages...except Argonian, their racials are pretty crappy lol.
Lets just look at Dragon Knights, Dunmer are as good if not better for damage and Nord/Orc/Imperial (maybe others) are better for tanking. PvP is not just a two player duel, if you have better tanks they stay up and you can win through. The OP is taking genuine data, but is applying it too simplistically.
Just one example of this, Bretons have great magic resistance, how do you factor that in? If there are lots of enemy Sorcerers it becomes very important, if very few far less so. If you just look at stats and do not think about what can happen in game the issues will seem simplistic. Once you think about how it will work out on the ground, you see the complexity.
If you are going a flame spec DK then High Elf is your best choice, they get double the bonus damage with fire (6% rather than 3%) and increase magicka regen, which is better than having slightly more stamina pool.
Originally posted by Gravarg It's not OP. Good luck trying to run down an Orc, or and Imperial that heals himself while attacking and has more hp than you, etc. Each race has it's advantages or disadvantages...except Argonian, their racials are pretty crappy lol.
Yeah 6% more heals received is a terrible racial! Oh wait yeah its not. Argonians were the best tank race until the OP Imperials came on the scene with their ridiculous HP boost and self heals.
Originally posted by ZeroPointNRG Soft caps/diminishing returns will make most of the racials far less OP than people realize.
There are currently no diminishing returns for crit bonus, pure magic damage or racial lifetaps, which are the main issues of contention. Resists, pool size and regen will all be capped easily.
Originally posted by Nacario One thing is for sure, i for one will be outright furious if they were to change/nerf khajiit racials after launch due to QQ. Im going to roll a nightblade and the build supports crit play, while at the same time I HATE being a cat. There are problably other players out there thinking like me, and we'll be #!%&ed if change happens, and having to stick with the character since progression takes time.
It really depends on a few things as to whether or not this will really happen.
1. I'm not sure if the racial bonuses are really that big of a game changer, but if they are, then it depends on how many people take advantage of that vs how many people play a build that is directly in competition with it.
2. Never underestimate the power of the QQ - and the QQ is always completely ignorant of what's going on. Ignorant in the sense that they were uninformed - not that they are stupid. I'm clarifying that because for some reason, people don't know the difference.
I remember 2 weeks into live in SWTOR, my class was nerfed because we were killing Sorcerers left and right. Actually, we were killing everyone left and right. As a result, it was nerfed HARD. Not only did this totally kill the Talent Line of the class, but it allowed for Healers to be unkillable, as we were the only ones capable of bursting through their heals. This also screwed up the class's viability in PvE. Imagine that - a PvP QQ forced a knee-jerk nerf which consequently screwed up PvE.
Basically, the issue had nothing to do with the class, but buffs that were being used creating a serious situation with Critical Attacks and Heals. But the people QQing didn't care - they were tired of not winning. And since Sorcerer was the most popular class at launch... ooooh man was it loud. The worst part is... any class could abuse the same Critical Hit mechanic and do roughly the same sort of chaos.
After a while where it took an entire opposing team to take out a single healer (who also benefitted from the Critical Success issue) they finally got smart and actually fixed the real problem. And it would seem everything would be fine. Except it was still screwed up because an entire niche was still nerfed.
I quit after the first month. And that sucks because I bought the $150 Collector's Edition. I really enjoyed the game otherwise, but I simply won't support a dev team that doesn't do their homework when problems like this arise. I had two write two pages of a write up explaining what was going on. So much bias showed up. People outright said, "I don't care what the numbers show. It's time for you guys to get a taste of your own medicine." What's worse... I wasn't even one of the ones abusing the buffs :P
It doesn`t matter due to overcharging.... spell cost is also overcharging at 25% so the breton bonus is also meh for casters...
It wasn`t tested but i`d bet the crit damage bonus also caps out at 25%... and anyone can get it by simply enchanting their items.
This game is all about overcharging... nobody can make anything even remotely OP because the soft caps(overcharging) are VERY low... so low you can hit a lot of them at once.
I don't care which racial bounuses are OP and which aren't, but I do care that they are in the game and that they are significant. I hate different races in RPGs, with the only differences beeing cosmetic. I plan to play either Orc sorcerer with melee weapons, or Breton/Altmer tank. I like to be original and gimp myself, even in PvP. I think this is both fun and challenging. Also, I play for fun, not to become some kind of e-sports champion - I don't care that much if I win, or lose.
It doesn't really because if Khagiit is deemed OP due to that bonus it will soon be nerfed, leaving min-maxers scrambling to build the next FOTM. Play whatever race you prefer and don't worry.
The +15% crit damage applies to both melee and ranged and will make Khajiit undoubtably the most favored Melee and Ranged-class (non-caster) in the game. If you want to be in the top corner of being the most viable damage dealer, then you will not come around choosing a Khajiit.
If Carnage stays only on Khajiits, then we will see them running around everywhere. I personally do not mind, since I like Khajiits. But is this really the goal which will automatically add up to that each competitive player will pick this race, when playing melee and/or with a bow?
Everyone saying that race bonuses are marginal were not yet participating in the endgame. Having a few thousands of health and getting added 12% hp from the imperial ontop will find this number very appealing. Same goes for all the other bonuses that really have impact. Khajiit being one of them.
Is it really unimportant what race to pick? No, definitelly not. Sure you can pick an Argonian Nightblade but will be outplayed by a Khajiit by a large number. Same goes for a Bosmer, and that is the sad thing - Bosmer actually being a Bow focused race will also be outplayed by the Khajiit's racials.
How to fix this? Balance racial bonuses across the board. To make on single example out of many: This would then mean to give Khajiit's Carnage to one or two more races aswell.
Does it really matter though considering you won't be buying the game?
Well speak for yourself but I am going to play a Nord no matter what and I know many people who arent some stat bitch and want to max out anything.
If you want to be an "elitist" go for it I dont care.
I like the diverse racial bonuses. Ever heard of Everquest? That made every race unique and if you played one of the evil races, everyone knew what effort you put into your character to make it that far.
I would agree. I don't actually have ANY friends I am playing with who are picking a class or race combo based on min maxing. Sure, some will do it, but in the end who gives a damn what they do. I hate the Khajiit, and will also be playing Nord no matter what. I am glad there is a difference.
So long as the game isn't balanced around end game Khajiit, my wood elf won't give a rats ass that a Khajiit killed a boss 32 seconds faster.
Ignorance is temporarily beautiful, isn't it?
No, you just don't the parents point. He/She doesn't CARE about a stat difference. A LOT of players would rather take hours longer to kill a boss rather then play a character or class they don't like. Mix-maxers are bane to MMO's especially because they usually are not just satisfied using a top class but want everything to suit to their play style.
You want to min-max, you go right ahead but don't try to claim that everyone will be playing khajiit, because they won't.
And frankly I think games with everything balanced out are fucking boring. I would be willing to pay a premium for a game that just got rid of PvP altogether and just make a PvE game where you picked your race and class and just had to deal with it that some are easier then others, some are more useful then others so you could just play the game for fun and be rid of the min-maxers forever.
See you in PvP.
Yup, while you're licking your paws I'll be there to put an arrow in your knee.
I dunno I have been wondering if Dunmer are not gonna be the ultimate siege maniacs and put EP over the edge. That Fire Res might stack really well with other things and given that poured oil is just mass amounts of fire ...
anyway there will be min/max but I am not convinced Khaajit as the one to rule them and in darkness bind them.
I've played a Imperial bow assasin in the three Elder Scroll single player games. (Edit: That I have played. Not saying there are only three, whoopsies.)
I've played a Imperial bow assasin in the three Elder Scroll single player games. (Edit: That I have played. Not saying there are only three, whoopsies.)
I'll play the same in the MMO.
Make sure you have bought the CE if you want to play Imperial.
Originally posted by mistmaker they could have +100% damage, but i would still never play a cat with a tail
Cat part I can't agree but ESO cat?
IMO they might have lost this war.
Or
If I'm in cat girl mood, I know where to log in.
One looks like a cat the other looks like a pretty human wearing cat ears.
The first looks like an anime cartoon pretty girl with cat ears.
The later is actually quite impressive. Was that taken in-game? wow
It won't dictate what I play or what makes the better game but I'd still say Miqo'te cat people win the prize for design. Much the same, I give Elin best design for little people in MMO's. ESO does Breton and Nord better than other games do human. It's all just fluff though. A diversified build system and the meaningful crafting will carry the game much longer that cute cat girls and adorable fox tails.
Originally posted by mistmaker they could have +100% damage, but i would still never play a cat with a tail
Cat part I can't agree but ESO cat?
IMO they might have lost this war.
Or
If I'm in cat girl mood, I know where to log in.
One looks like a cat the other looks like a pretty human wearing cat ears.
The first looks like an anime cartoon pretty girl with cat ears.
The later is actually quite impressive. Was that taken in-game? wow
It won't dictate what I play or what makes the better game but I'd still say Miqo'te cat people win the prize for design. Much the same, I give Elin best design for little people in MMO's. ESO does Breton and Nord better than other games do human. It's all just fluff though. A diversified build system and the meaningful crafting will carry the game much longer that cute cat girls and adorable fox tails.
The final fantasy one doesn't even look like a cat.
Anyone who is foolish enough to pick Khajiit only because of the perceived advantage is in for a rude awakening.
Khajiit will be the flavor of the month as launch and then people will reroll when they no longer have the upper hand. Has been like this since EQ1 and will continue to be like this for as long as players are competitive. Competition sometimes overrides enjoyment. Play what you are going to like in the long run.
For me.. Its an Imperial. Or Nord.. Still up in the air a bit.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
Comments
If you are going a flame spec DK then High Elf is your best choice, they get double the bonus damage with fire (6% rather than 3%) and increase magicka regen, which is better than having slightly more stamina pool.
Yeah 6% more heals received is a terrible racial! Oh wait yeah its not. Argonians were the best tank race until the OP Imperials came on the scene with their ridiculous HP boost and self heals.
There are currently no diminishing returns for crit bonus, pure magic damage or racial lifetaps, which are the main issues of contention. Resists, pool size and regen will all be capped easily.
It really depends on a few things as to whether or not this will really happen.
1. I'm not sure if the racial bonuses are really that big of a game changer, but if they are, then it depends on how many people take advantage of that vs how many people play a build that is directly in competition with it.
2. Never underestimate the power of the QQ - and the QQ is always completely ignorant of what's going on. Ignorant in the sense that they were uninformed - not that they are stupid. I'm clarifying that because for some reason, people don't know the difference.
I remember 2 weeks into live in SWTOR, my class was nerfed because we were killing Sorcerers left and right. Actually, we were killing everyone left and right. As a result, it was nerfed HARD. Not only did this totally kill the Talent Line of the class, but it allowed for Healers to be unkillable, as we were the only ones capable of bursting through their heals. This also screwed up the class's viability in PvE. Imagine that - a PvP QQ forced a knee-jerk nerf which consequently screwed up PvE.
Basically, the issue had nothing to do with the class, but buffs that were being used creating a serious situation with Critical Attacks and Heals. But the people QQing didn't care - they were tired of not winning. And since Sorcerer was the most popular class at launch... ooooh man was it loud. The worst part is... any class could abuse the same Critical Hit mechanic and do roughly the same sort of chaos.
After a while where it took an entire opposing team to take out a single healer (who also benefitted from the Critical Success issue) they finally got smart and actually fixed the real problem. And it would seem everything would be fine. Except it was still screwed up because an entire niche was still nerfed.
I quit after the first month. And that sucks because I bought the $150 Collector's Edition. I really enjoyed the game otherwise, but I simply won't support a dev team that doesn't do their homework when problems like this arise. I had two write two pages of a write up explaining what was going on. So much bias showed up. People outright said, "I don't care what the numbers show. It's time for you guys to get a taste of your own medicine." What's worse... I wasn't even one of the ones abusing the buffs :P
It doesn`t matter due to overcharging.... spell cost is also overcharging at 25% so the breton bonus is also meh for casters...
It wasn`t tested but i`d bet the crit damage bonus also caps out at 25%... and anyone can get it by simply enchanting their items.
This game is all about overcharging... nobody can make anything even remotely OP because the soft caps(overcharging) are VERY low... so low you can hit a lot of them at once.
Does it really matter though considering you won't be buying the game?
I would agree. I don't actually have ANY friends I am playing with who are picking a class or race combo based on min maxing. Sure, some will do it, but in the end who gives a damn what they do. I hate the Khajiit, and will also be playing Nord no matter what. I am glad there is a difference.
Loads of people don't care about min maxing.
Yup, while you're licking your paws I'll be there to put an arrow in your knee.
Cat part I can't agree but ESO cat?
IMO they might have lost this war.
Or
If I'm in cat girl mood, I know where to log in.
One looks like a cat the other looks like a pretty human wearing cat ears.
The first looks like an anime cartoon pretty girl with cat ears.
The later is actually quite impressive. Was that taken in-game? wow
I dunno I have been wondering if Dunmer are not gonna be the ultimate siege maniacs and put EP over the edge. That Fire Res might stack really well with other things and given that poured oil is just mass amounts of fire ...
anyway there will be min/max but I am not convinced Khaajit as the one to rule them and in darkness bind them.
I've played a Imperial bow assasin in the three Elder Scroll single player games. (Edit: That I have played. Not saying there are only three, whoopsies.)
I'll play the same in the MMO.
Make sure you have bought the CE if you want to play Imperial.
It won't dictate what I play or what makes the better game but I'd still say Miqo'te cat people win the prize for design. Much the same, I give Elin best design for little people in MMO's. ESO does Breton and Nord better than other games do human. It's all just fluff though. A diversified build system and the meaningful crafting will carry the game much longer that cute cat girls and adorable fox tails.
The final fantasy one doesn't even look like a cat.
Anyone who is foolish enough to pick Khajiit only because of the perceived advantage is in for a rude awakening.
Khajiit will be the flavor of the month as launch and then people will reroll when they no longer have the upper hand. Has been like this since EQ1 and will continue to be like this for as long as players are competitive. Competition sometimes overrides enjoyment. Play what you are going to like in the long run.
For me.. Its an Imperial. Or Nord.. Still up in the air a bit.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
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