So they will follow the current trend of making money off of a Beta,that is imo pretty darn lame,i find it hard to believe the 5% either.
If they listen and care about customers,they should ask if we want a cash shop at all,but nope they can't do that because the cash shop is here to stay.All of their brainstorming will involve finding ways to get players to spend more than is FAIR.
It is because of SOE's greed and VERY shotty business ideals,i could warrant a 7.5 hype scale for the game but for SOE business practices a 1/10.
You know who business ideals affect ?The customers,so if they treat their customers like a 1/10 there is no way i would support anything they sell.
Not a bright move by the CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment to name Smed as chief CEO of SOE,their company and respect levels have gone way down since.
You are aware that it costs money to make games? They have to pay the developers for thier time. And yes there is profit. They are not the first company to sell founders packs. They may be the first company to let players in this early however.
Gamers really don't care about how much money a company makes. More incoming money has been shown to NOT equate to quality.
How about if games were just about quality instead of the bottom dollar?
How about if fans see quality instead of justifying a companies gross revenue?
I personally look for quality. If a dev's revenue is dependent on said quality, then it is justified. (assuming the game is good). EQN has little known other than pre-alpha. So justifying any expenses IMO is extremely premature.
I too like quality. The difference is the different thresholds. My point was more directed towards the arbitrary argument being thrown at Cash Shops and the assumptions people are making.
If you don't like the game then fine complain about what is broken. But selling something that you can otherwise gather or create yourself doesn't take anything from the game. It just creates a shortcut. Since Landmark is all about exploration and creation there is no winning so you can't pay to win.
Selling shot cuts is only fine in PvE focused games (outside of leveling). Otherwise, its P2W. EQ:N-L is mincraft with a EQ skin. Making it cash shop drivern, especially since they are crowd sourcing world design and testing terraforming for EQ:N isn't an issue.
hope they all die soon, when people wake up and think, hey they are not realy free and for enjoythem i need to pay far more money that something small like 50cent a day !!!
I used to think like that but then again there are games which do F2P well, TF2 and PS2 spring to mind. In fact, if SOE does it the way they do in PS2 I'll be a happy puppy.
Selling shot cuts is only fine in PvE focused games (outside of leveling). Otherwise, its P2W. EQ:N-L is mincraft with a EQ skin. Making it cash shop drivern, especially since they are crowd sourcing world design and testing terraforming for EQ:N isn't an issue.
People in Landmark now paid to be there right? I don't really trust the opinions of people who are willing to pay silly amounts to play a supposedly free game.
FTP is garbage. SOE FTP is amongst the worst and SOE is a crappy company anyways, especially when it comes to MMORPGs.
The idea of playing a game where players are SELLING content is repulsive and further lame and goes against the whole idea of community and modding that's existed in games for ages now.
It's just another way for SOE to skim money, this time off of player creativity.
No worries, I have no intention of playing. Looks cool, but there are tons of builder games out there that aren't being done by a money grubbing corporate whore of a developer looking for every possible way to bleed players of cash.
It's a shaping up to be another crappy year for MMORPGs, IMO.
Last year we had the FFXI MMO lite for ultra dummies, the first supposedly premium MMORPG since EQLive that I tried and was bored of before the 30 days were up. FFXI took dumbed down and ez-mode to unimagineable new lows.
This year we'll see whatever crap SOE releases that's more like a console game for dummies and/or minecraft on crack (which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the extreme cash shop hooks and content selling) than any MMORPG. I doubt EQN hits this year but it's just going to extend SOE's vision of milking players on single player nonMMORPG console action crap.
ESO is an abomination of a game idea and crap on top of that.
WildStar looks good in so many ways - ridiculously good - but then WHY does a premium priced MMORPG with a premium sub have BUILT IN CHEATING? Why CREDD? Why have a way for the losers of the MMORPG sphere to buy gold for cash built in to the game? (And further, why have players got so apathetic that they don't care about this - has the genre really slipped so far that so many have become numb and/or brain dead? And why is the MMO/gaming press not all over Carbine for building RMT, something that has plagued MMORPGs forever, into their game? Carbine's marketing on this is good, but not that good (whereby they make it out to be a system where you can pay for your sub with in game wealth - yes, you can, buy effectively selling gold to losers))
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
People in Landmark now paid to be there right? I don't really trust the opinions of people who are willing to pay silly amounts to play a supposedly free game.
FTP is garbage. SOE FTP is amongst the worst and SOE is a crappy company anyways, especially when it comes to MMORPGs.
The idea of playing a game where players are SELLING content is repulsive and further lame and goes against the whole idea of community and modding that's existed in games for ages now.
It's just another way for SOE to skim money, this time off of player creativity.
No worries, I have no intention of playing. Looks cool, but there are tons of builder games out there that aren't being done by a money grubbing corporate whore of a developer looking for every possible way to bleed players of cash.
It's a shaping up to be another crappy year for MMORPGs, IMO.
Last year we had the FFXI MMO lite for ultra dummies, the first supposedly premium MMORPG since EQLive that I tried and was bored of before the 30 days were up. FFXI took dumbed down and ez-mode to unimagineable new lows.
This year we'll see whatever crap SOE releases that's more like a console game for dummies and/or minecraft on crack (which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the extreme cash shop hooks and content selling) than any MMORPG. I doubt EQN hits this year but it's just going to extend SOE's vision of milking players on single player nonMMORPG console action crap.
ESO is an abomination of a game idea and crap on top of that.
SOE has made some bad decisions. I am still sad on how they handled Vanguard. SOE was so terrible in my eyes that I never played with Friends who begged me to come play EQ or EQ2. (after the release of Vanguard).
News about EQN popped on the wire, not interested. Then someone showed me Landmark, last year. I started to follow the news and I was kinda surprised on how much they shared and how much interaction there was between the community and the devs. I was one of those "suckers" who paid money for Alpha access. It was not because of the access, it was a bonus, but more as a support. I have been following a lot of Kickstarter projects and almost wanted to give some of those money. But EQ:L really had something to show for, plus the devs had a vision and were not afraid to share it with us. Basicly I consider Landmark as a Kickstarter project with a future. It's a game based on the dev tools for the next upcoming MMORPG Everquest Next. I even started playing EQ2 and to be honest is surprisingly fun.
Give me a decent mmorpg with a subscription and I am happy. Because then the devs have to deliver a total package to keep the majority of their paying customers happy. Plus every customer has the same chance of getting all the items as long as he/she invest some time in it.
B2P or FTP always come with a cashshop that focus on that part of the community that wants to spend some extra money on things. Either super fancy costmetics, to super convienent items to brutal pay to win items. Usually the cosmetics are better looking than what I can earn ingame. Usually the convience stuff really makes a difference (enhanced bagspace, unbreakable harvest equipment), so those are hidden "must buy" items.
Originally posted by Telondariel Well, word on the street was that EQN:L was going to be a highly monetized cash cow. Now we know. Let's just hope that EQN isn't the same.
They are a business, not a charity and since this model is far away from P2W, i think it's fair for both the company and the players.
so you think that selling resources which are used to craft gear which essentially equals power isnt p2w? All gear is crafted through the use of resources and you can recraft items later on at some point to get better quality gear. There for resources of any kind have the ability to equal power. Ever play a game where you had to repeatedly run a dungeon to get a rare material drop from the boss? Now put that material in the cash shop for SC.
Originally posted by Telondariel Well, word on the street was that EQN:L was going to be a highly monetized cash cow. Now we know. Let's just hope that EQN isn't the same.
They are a business, not a charity and since this model is far away from P2W, i think it's fair for both the company and the players.
so you think that selling resources which are used to craft gear which essentially equals power isnt p2w? All gear is crafted through the use of resources and you can recraft items later on at some point to get better quality gear. There for resources of any kind have the ability to equal power. Ever play a game where you had to repeatedly run a dungeon to get a rare material drop from the boss? Now put that material in the cash shop for SC.
Resources mean dick after later patches as stated by Georgeson. Where the rare weapons are concerned it will be more about finding the recipe that is somewhere out in the world that you have to discover and will not know where to find it other than exploring and luck.
Your point about resources is moot because you have the opinion of how other games did harvesting. As SOE has already stated resources and harvesting will just be a mini game and that is it because the real stuff you have to find like recipes maybe one of a kind.
You can buy all the resources you want but until you find the recipe or have someone make the item you want then resources mean dick simple as that. You can get ALL resources in game anywhere no group needed or hunting needed because unlike all other games where rares = greater than recipe this isn't the way Landmark is going at all. Landmark = Recipes are the rare and hard to come by.
So in the end buying resources is just one way to get a boost when you are short and don't want to go harvest for a bit. You can also buy them from players, trade, sell for in game currency. Before you go OH but it will ruin the in game economy there are in game resource syncs like Claim upkeep which you can pay with resources and besides that this will not be one of the real ways for in game economy as SOE already stated. They haven't said much on economy because we are not at that phase in ALPHA yet. It is on the Road Map though.
There will not be any resources dropped from Combat content as SOE has already stated. If you are concerned about resources then you must not understand this game and where it is headed as a lot of people on these forums don't.
So you are saying if for example the minecraft creator added a cash shop to the game that has crafting materials in it to reduce time for people, it is pay to win?
See what is wrong with your argument?
It's still too early to know for sure of course but there's no need to shout the world is ending yet.
Originally posted by Telondariel Well, word on the street was that EQN:L was going to be a highly monetized cash cow. Now we know. Let's just hope that EQN isn't the same.
Unfortunately, as a "F2P" title, it'll be just as bad if not worse.
I asked this question before (another topic) and ask again.
How many people playing a "building" game will pay others to build for them?
Depends on the price, as you can buy parts. If a tower you can cut/paste is $1, someone probably will buy it and put it on what they have, if they like it. If the same tower is $50, not many.
I don't see the point of thinking people will buy a lot from others, maybe legendary tools or something would a item, for someone that is maybe unlucky... The game doesn't look to set up to be a min/max power game, and basic materials are laughably easy to get. You can build everything you want with basic materials, then use the paint brush later as you get the materials you wanted. People share their crafting tables, even when it goes live they will be, so they aren't a must have either.
The wildcard will be the actual mmo part, where people craft gear for stats/abilities, maybe something super rare will be sold, which happens in every mmo. I am sure people will sell basic materials also, which also happens in every mmo that has building/crafting.
If they add custom clothes/gear appearances, people may buy those...I am sure people will buy/sell about everything, but I don't see the need to buy any of it at this time. It isn't going to do much for you, that just playing the game a little won't imo.
If it was a themepark, had min/maxing, competitive/strength barriers and such, I could see some of the grumbling, but as constituted, not seeing it, and I am a person that despises even xp potions/keys being sold in games.
I asked this question before (another topic) and ask again.
How many people playing a "building" game will pay others to build for them?
Depends on the price, as you can buy parts. If a tower you can cut/paste is $1, someone probably will buy it and put it on what they have, if they like it. If the same tower is $50, not many.
I don't see the point of thinking people will buy a lot from others, maybe legendary tools or something would a item, for someone that is maybe unlucky... The game doesn't look to set up to be a min/max power game, and basic materials are laughably easy to get. You can build everything you want with basic materials, then use the paint brush later as you get the materials you wanted. People share their crafting tables, even when it goes live they will be, so they aren't a must have either.
The wildcard will be the actual mmo part, where people craft gear for stats/abilities, maybe something super rare will be sold, which happens in every mmo. I am sure people will sell basic materials also, which also happens in every mmo that has building/crafting.
If they add custom clothes/gear appearances, people may buy those...I am sure people will buy/sell about everything, but I don't see the need to buy any of it at this time. It isn't going to do much for you, that just playing the game a little won't imo.
If it was a themepark, had min/maxing, competitive/strength barriers and such, I could see some of the grumbling, but as constituted, not seeing it, and I am a person that despises even xp potions/keys being sold in games.
I think I am spoiled with how SWG worked. Everything ingame was or could be player crafted. Yes you had Epic-like looted gear. But still with the right resources and right crafting skills/tools those could become Epic aswell. And even tailored made.
And the best thing was it was all done by playing the game, the crafting, the selling/trading, the harvesting for it's resources. Yes it had a sub-fee but at the time it meant everyone was equall.
Gold"scammer" have ruined allot of that so I can not blame game company's taking matters into their own hand. But I am wondering where is the limit.
Will there come a time that your next level up will cost you X amount of real life €/$?
I also understand many people will buy into it the way it's given right now because I just have to face it that this just this generation of gamers. Can't blame them, they grew up with internet with most of it free and if not free it can be bought. They are used to it .
I mean why take your own time if you can buy someone else his. It's entertainment after all......
Originally posted by Telondariel Well, word on the street was that EQN:L was going to be a highly monetized cash cow. Now we know. Let's just hope that EQN isn't the same.
Huh? The model they said they are using for EQN:L is perfect. You don't buy anything if you don't want to and nothing has pay to win elements. If you are going to complain about this model then you are going to complain about literally any monetization in a F2P.
^^This^^
I've never been a proponent for F2P games. I usually absolutely despise them and most of the community that comes along with them (I'm no fool to believe the community won't go to S#!% once it goes free to play though, hopefully can stick to a server with most of the alpha people). With Landmark though I paid for the Trailblazer pack to try alpha and have never regretted it. The shop they will have is a fair one. What do people expect with a F2P game anyways? You expect everything to be free? Today's console generation of people never cease to astound with the complaining and sense of entitlement. Complain when you see someone wearing something cosmetic from a shop? Guess what it isn't a pay to win item, nor does it bother your gameplay. Nothing that will be in their shop will be pay to win. I'll probably opt to pay a monthly sub for SC/items that come along with the monthly fee, and to show my support for the game, and I'll probably buy stuff in the shop to support the game. That's how much I like the game, even in it's barebones alpha. It's a company and they have to make money somehow. You will already get the game for free at release FREE, how can you complain about that? A triple A game for free...
Comments
Selling shot cuts is only fine in PvE focused games (outside of leveling). Otherwise, its P2W. EQ:N-L is mincraft with a EQ skin. Making it cash shop drivern, especially since they are crowd sourcing world design and testing terraforming for EQ:N isn't an issue.
I used to think like that but then again there are games which do F2P well, TF2 and PS2 spring to mind. In fact, if SOE does it the way they do in PS2 I'll be a happy puppy.
It's not even close, sadly.
That's just crazy talk!
The trolls gonna get you for this.
People in Landmark now paid to be there right? I don't really trust the opinions of people who are willing to pay silly amounts to play a supposedly free game.
FTP is garbage. SOE FTP is amongst the worst and SOE is a crappy company anyways, especially when it comes to MMORPGs.
The idea of playing a game where players are SELLING content is repulsive and further lame and goes against the whole idea of community and modding that's existed in games for ages now.
It's just another way for SOE to skim money, this time off of player creativity.
No worries, I have no intention of playing. Looks cool, but there are tons of builder games out there that aren't being done by a money grubbing corporate whore of a developer looking for every possible way to bleed players of cash.
It's a shaping up to be another crappy year for MMORPGs, IMO.
Last year we had the FFXI MMO lite for ultra dummies, the first supposedly premium MMORPG since EQLive that I tried and was bored of before the 30 days were up. FFXI took dumbed down and ez-mode to unimagineable new lows.
This year we'll see whatever crap SOE releases that's more like a console game for dummies and/or minecraft on crack (which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the extreme cash shop hooks and content selling) than any MMORPG. I doubt EQN hits this year but it's just going to extend SOE's vision of milking players on single player nonMMORPG console action crap.
ESO is an abomination of a game idea and crap on top of that.
WildStar looks good in so many ways - ridiculously good - but then WHY does a premium priced MMORPG with a premium sub have BUILT IN CHEATING? Why CREDD? Why have a way for the losers of the MMORPG sphere to buy gold for cash built in to the game? (And further, why have players got so apathetic that they don't care about this - has the genre really slipped so far that so many have become numb and/or brain dead? And why is the MMO/gaming press not all over Carbine for building RMT, something that has plagued MMORPGs forever, into their game? Carbine's marketing on this is good, but not that good (whereby they make it out to be a system where you can pay for your sub with in game wealth - yes, you can, buy effectively selling gold to losers))
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
SOE has made some bad decisions. I am still sad on how they handled Vanguard. SOE was so terrible in my eyes that I never played with Friends who begged me to come play EQ or EQ2. (after the release of Vanguard).
News about EQN popped on the wire, not interested. Then someone showed me Landmark, last year. I started to follow the news and I was kinda surprised on how much they shared and how much interaction there was between the community and the devs. I was one of those "suckers" who paid money for Alpha access. It was not because of the access, it was a bonus, but more as a support. I have been following a lot of Kickstarter projects and almost wanted to give some of those money. But EQ:L really had something to show for, plus the devs had a vision and were not afraid to share it with us. Basicly I consider Landmark as a Kickstarter project with a future. It's a game based on the dev tools for the next upcoming MMORPG Everquest Next. I even started playing EQ2 and to be honest is surprisingly fun.
Give me a decent mmorpg with a subscription and I am happy. Because then the devs have to deliver a total package to keep the majority of their paying customers happy. Plus every customer has the same chance of getting all the items as long as he/she invest some time in it.
B2P or FTP always come with a cashshop that focus on that part of the community that wants to spend some extra money on things. Either super fancy costmetics, to super convienent items to brutal pay to win items. Usually the cosmetics are better looking than what I can earn ingame. Usually the convience stuff really makes a difference (enhanced bagspace, unbreakable harvest equipment), so those are hidden "must buy" items.
so you think that selling resources which are used to craft gear which essentially equals power isnt p2w? All gear is crafted through the use of resources and you can recraft items later on at some point to get better quality gear. There for resources of any kind have the ability to equal power. Ever play a game where you had to repeatedly run a dungeon to get a rare material drop from the boss? Now put that material in the cash shop for SC.
Resources mean dick after later patches as stated by Georgeson. Where the rare weapons are concerned it will be more about finding the recipe that is somewhere out in the world that you have to discover and will not know where to find it other than exploring and luck.
Your point about resources is moot because you have the opinion of how other games did harvesting. As SOE has already stated resources and harvesting will just be a mini game and that is it because the real stuff you have to find like recipes maybe one of a kind.
You can buy all the resources you want but until you find the recipe or have someone make the item you want then resources mean dick simple as that. You can get ALL resources in game anywhere no group needed or hunting needed because unlike all other games where rares = greater than recipe this isn't the way Landmark is going at all. Landmark = Recipes are the rare and hard to come by.
So in the end buying resources is just one way to get a boost when you are short and don't want to go harvest for a bit. You can also buy them from players, trade, sell for in game currency. Before you go OH but it will ruin the in game economy there are in game resource syncs like Claim upkeep which you can pay with resources and besides that this will not be one of the real ways for in game economy as SOE already stated. They haven't said much on economy because we are not at that phase in ALPHA yet. It is on the Road Map though.
There will not be any resources dropped from Combat content as SOE has already stated. If you are concerned about resources then you must not understand this game and where it is headed as a lot of people on these forums don't.
So you are saying if for example the minecraft creator added a cash shop to the game that has crafting materials in it to reduce time for people, it is pay to win?
See what is wrong with your argument?
It's still too early to know for sure of course but there's no need to shout the world is ending yet.
Unfortunately, as a "F2P" title, it'll be just as bad if not worse.
I asked this question before (another topic) and ask again.
How many people playing a "building" game will pay others to build for them?
Depends on the price, as you can buy parts. If a tower you can cut/paste is $1, someone probably will buy it and put it on what they have, if they like it. If the same tower is $50, not many.
I don't see the point of thinking people will buy a lot from others, maybe legendary tools or something would a item, for someone that is maybe unlucky... The game doesn't look to set up to be a min/max power game, and basic materials are laughably easy to get. You can build everything you want with basic materials, then use the paint brush later as you get the materials you wanted. People share their crafting tables, even when it goes live they will be, so they aren't a must have either.
The wildcard will be the actual mmo part, where people craft gear for stats/abilities, maybe something super rare will be sold, which happens in every mmo. I am sure people will sell basic materials also, which also happens in every mmo that has building/crafting.
If they add custom clothes/gear appearances, people may buy those...I am sure people will buy/sell about everything, but I don't see the need to buy any of it at this time. It isn't going to do much for you, that just playing the game a little won't imo.
If it was a themepark, had min/maxing, competitive/strength barriers and such, I could see some of the grumbling, but as constituted, not seeing it, and I am a person that despises even xp potions/keys being sold in games.
I think I am spoiled with how SWG worked. Everything ingame was or could be player crafted. Yes you had Epic-like looted gear. But still with the right resources and right crafting skills/tools those could become Epic aswell. And even tailored made.
And the best thing was it was all done by playing the game, the crafting, the selling/trading, the harvesting for it's resources. Yes it had a sub-fee but at the time it meant everyone was equall.
Gold"scammer" have ruined allot of that so I can not blame game company's taking matters into their own hand. But I am wondering where is the limit.
Will there come a time that your next level up will cost you X amount of real life €/$?
I also understand many people will buy into it the way it's given right now because I just have to face it that this just this generation of gamers. Can't blame them, they grew up with internet with most of it free and if not free it can be bought. They are used to it .
I mean why take your own time if you can buy someone else his. It's entertainment after all......
^^This^^
I've never been a proponent for F2P games. I usually absolutely despise them and most of the community that comes along with them (I'm no fool to believe the community won't go to S#!% once it goes free to play though, hopefully can stick to a server with most of the alpha people). With Landmark though I paid for the Trailblazer pack to try alpha and have never regretted it. The shop they will have is a fair one. What do people expect with a F2P game anyways? You expect everything to be free? Today's console generation of people never cease to astound with the complaining and sense of entitlement. Complain when you see someone wearing something cosmetic from a shop? Guess what it isn't a pay to win item, nor does it bother your gameplay. Nothing that will be in their shop will be pay to win. I'll probably opt to pay a monthly sub for SC/items that come along with the monthly fee, and to show my support for the game, and I'll probably buy stuff in the shop to support the game. That's how much I like the game, even in it's barebones alpha. It's a company and they have to make money somehow. You will already get the game for free at release FREE, how can you complain about that? A triple A game for free...
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Yes, they are both separate games.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I really didn't think they were going to sell "shortcuts" or other bonus items. This is a real turnoff for me.
Why don't they just sell levels? Not enough nickle-dime in the direct approach?
Once upon a time....