Originally posted by deveilblad End of thread.... Legendary gear is crafted only. You take a crafted or dropped epic level piece of equipment and a crafter has to use tempers to make it legendary. Legendaries do not drop.
Do you not understand the major difference here?
The "unique" enchantments ONLY come on dropped items, crafters not NOT make these items.
The unique dropped items are far better then what a crafted item can have on them currently after these changes.
In order to upgrade an item to legendary you do not even need to be a master crafter at all, a few skill points in will allow you to do this.
So the crafters who invest all their time, money, and work into mastering crafting do not get to craft comparable items right now (like they did before these recent changes), instead these dropped items are bettera nd crafters only purpose end game is to improve dropped items (which you do not need to max crafting to do).
This means the people that max crafting and enjoy crafting items will have no place when it comes to end game if they leave it like it currently is.
YES, ENCHANTERS WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS!!!!
Legendary Enchantments can make the best end game crafted gear that blacksmiths and tailors make to BE THE BEST GEAR IN GAME, equal to gear that has been droped and upgraded to legendary by blacksmiths or tailors.
They can also upgrade the raid gear, that has LegendaryEquivelliant Enchantments embedded into them.
I the to break your heart, but yes, crafters will be able to make the best gear in game and make them better. JUST LIKE THE DEVS TOLD US!
Raid gear will not be able to have LEGENDARY ENCHANTS put onto them, Only Crafted gear can be LEGENDARY ENCHANTED because RAID gear alredy has "legendary quality" enchantments embedded into them.
Do you have a source for this? Any info on the legendary enchantments/what they offer vs the dropped gear that has the unique enchantments you can't craft?
Originally posted by deveilblad
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by deveilblad End of thread.... Legendary gear is crafted only. You take a crafted or dropped epic level piece of equipment and a crafter has to use tempers to make it legendary. Legendaries do not drop.
Do you not understand the major difference here?
The "unique" enchantments ONLY come on dropped items, crafters not NOT make these items.
The unique dropped items are far better then what a crafted item can have on them currently after these changes.
In order to upgrade an item to legendary you do not even need to be a master crafter at all, a few skill points in will allow you to do this.
So the crafters who invest all their time, money, and work into mastering crafting do not get to craft comparable items right now (like they did before these recent changes), instead these dropped items are bettera nd crafters only purpose end game is to improve dropped items (which you do not need to max crafting to do).
This means the people that max crafting and enjoy crafting items will have no place when it comes to end game if they leave it like it currently is.
Are you sure YOU understand ? Special traits can be researched by crafters, so over time they can craft the exact same traits as a dropped item. Also enchants are made by enchanters, there are no special dropped item enchants, as far as I know anyway... Anything on a dropped piece of gear can be made by a crafter of that particular type (light,medium,heavy) for traits and enchanters can enchant it with whatever. ON TOP OF THAT, crafters can make that piece of gear legendary. So the really really best piece of gear with exactly the right trait/enchant/legendary quality will be crafted at special crafting stations in specific public dungeons, not dropped.
"THEY CAN TAKE THE BEST ITEMS IN THE WORLD AND MAKE THEM BETTER AND CAN ALSO MAKE THE BEST GEAR" - DEVS OF ESO
To believe anything diferant is going to set you up for a HUGE heartbreak.
Enchanters who can make Legendary Enchantments will be able to complete the Blacksmith and Tailors best made gear in game and make it as good as any drop in the entire world.
The guy you quoted is actually comparing gear that is not fully finished by NOT having a LEGENDARY ENCHANT on it, and because of this, he is really comparing a DROP ITEM to a UNFINISHED PIECE OF GEAR.
Originally posted by deveilblad End of thread.... Legendary gear is crafted only. You take a crafted or dropped epic level piece of equipment and a crafter has to use tempers to make it legendary. Legendaries do not drop.
...snip
The unique dropped items are far better then what a crafted item can have on them currently after these changes.
So, you have a list of all possible crafted items and all possible dropped items and have made this comparison that all are better on one side. Can you link that list?
Think carefully now, the person we quoted only listed two items from the crafted side and nothing from the dropped side, are you certain that they have seen and exhausted all drop possibilities and all crafting possibilities or that you have done the research yourself and have data.
Example.
I'm building a Nighblade healer with heavy armor with lots of mage guild skills and a resto staff, tell me which dropped item is better for me than any crafted item. Is the "better" item for me going to be the same as for a light armored Templar healer who might use class skills and no resto staff. If you know the best in class for each of us and where it comes from - do tell.
If you don't have that information then all you know is at least 2 items got a balance review on the crafting side, that's all from the person we quoted. If the person was wearing crafted gear, did they have time to go find someone with non-crafted gear and see if it was changed at all etc.
No I do not have a list of all, i am just going by what I have heard from multiple PTS testers at veteran rank that you're wearing mostly dropped items that are upgraded and the crafted items (that they know of at least) are not comparable whereas previously the crafted items could be comporable (and some superior, not all).
Where you had many choice on what to build.
PEople are saying the lower cost sprint (he didn't say it was free, just much lower), do you think that's actually a worthwhile thing?
In a fight would you rather have free sprinting or say, 10+ more crit dmg? PErsonally the cirt dmg would help more in a melee/team fight then sprinting ever would.
It's a trade off, nothing is ever "Balanced" in mmo's, its always a shifting game when they tweak this something else pops up that seems unbalanced (even if it wasn't even changed) because the other items were brought down lower/not as worthwhile anymore.
"certain enchantments can only be found on drops."
This is 100% true. Its what makes drops Unique, but to say they are better then Legendary Enchantments or are more powerful is also false. it would be like comparing one race to another and saying one race is more powerful then the other, like they did with the Imperial race debate.
Paul Sage talks about how these drops CANNOT be enchanted, because that is their enchantment, raid drops will be an enchantment that's embedded onto that piece of gear. Which is TRUE,
Now does PAUL SAGE say "Certain enchantments can only be found on drops, BUT ARE BETTER THEN ANY OTHER CRAFTED PIECE OF GEAR THAT WE CAME OUT AND SAID CRAFTED CAN BE THE BEST GEAR IN THE GAME?"
No he did not say that. He is explaining how Drop items will work, not how good they are compared to other gear, BUT THEY HAVE SAID HOW GOOD CRAFTER GEAR WILL BE....
Given the statement that crafters can make the BEST GEAR in GAME by the devs outlined here we can assume that LEGENDARY ENCHANTS are indeed the determinaing factor in how powerful the end game gear crafted can be.
Add this along with the fact that LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS can be made, You actually can prove the fact that the LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS will be as powerful as the EMBEDED ENCHANTMENT drop items.
"THEY CAN TAKE THE BEST ITEMS IN THE WORLD AND MAKE THEM BETTER AND CAN ALSO MAKE THE BEST GEAR" - DEVS OF ESO
To believe anything diferant is going to set you up for a HUGE heartbreak.
Enchanters who can make Legendary Enchantments will be able to complete the Blacksmith and Tailors best made gear in game and make it as good as any drop in the entire world.
The guy you quoted is actually comparing gear that is not fully finished by NOT having a LEGENDARY ENCHANT on it, and because of this, he is really comparing a DROP ITEM to a UNFINISHED PIECE OF GEAR.
This has always been true, but people like to freak out. The problem seems to be that a crafter in a single profession can make legendary quality gear, but still needs another legendary profession to complete it. Players want to have it all, without help.
Drops will be the best gear you can get just playing the game. Probably will be the quickest to get this gear. As well as needed for research for crafters. But two legendary crafters. One in Enchanting and another who makes gear can create legendary gear that will be specific to player builds. It will take longer, but will be the best IMO.
That means top PvE players will need crafters and crafters will need top PvE players. Both groups working together as in a guild will come out with the best gear in the game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I see a lot of knee jerk reactions in this thread to normal progression of an MMO 's development.
The crafting information was previously known for those that bothered to look and the macro view of crafting has not changed. Really the chief complaint is that excessive bonuses are not available through crafting anymore. Having permanent bonuses 150 - 200% greater than short term skill bonuses (looking at you attack speed and weapon dmg) should not exist and seems to have been corrected. This puts the game more squarely in a tactical resource managed fighting arena which everyone should want.
The XP reduction has not been fully tested and we do not know how impacting it will be overall. Does anyone really think this is the final balance pass for XP? MMOs are always in flux even after release. The jury is out on the XP changes and most that play the game will not know how it use to be from where it is now. It sounds like what they want is slower progression and to deter XP farming to power level up to 50 V10. This is what you get with a sub game, not sure why it has surprised anyone.
The only thing I can fault concerning the mod nerfs is that they should have been done earlier in development. I can understand mod developers being upset as they have wasted time developing mods which will never see the game. As to the nerfs themselves, again I have no problem with them as it makes the game more competitive. Seeing values from an enemy, PvE and PvP, gave an advantage and made those mods essential. Removing access to that information was the right thing for the overall health of the game. Mods should always be viewed as icing, not the cake.
If these changes are truly game breaking, why is there not more outrage from testers? The NDA was lifted, so it is not a suppression from the game developers, but rather apathy over the changes from the majority of testers. For the doom and gloom in this thread every ESO site should be lit up right now, they simply are not.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
So all the freaking out about crafted gear vs drops can stop... the OP is/was misinformed.
We can also put to rest all the talk about nerfed xp rates. That ONLY pertains to veteran levels. (atleast thats what was said by multiple people on twitch streams).
Originally posted by deveilblad End of thread.... Legendary gear is crafted only. You take a crafted or dropped epic level piece of equipment and a crafter has to use tempers to make it legendary. Legendaries do not drop.
...snip
The unique dropped items are far better then what a crafted item can have on them currently after these changes.
So, you have a list of all possible crafted items and all possible dropped items and have made this comparison that all are better on one side. Can you link that list?
Think carefully now, the person we quoted only listed two items from the crafted side and nothing from the dropped side, are you certain that they have seen and exhausted all drop possibilities and all crafting possibilities or that you have done the research yourself and have data.
Example.
I'm building a Nighblade healer with heavy armor with lots of mage guild skills and a resto staff, tell me which dropped item is better for me than any crafted item. Is the "better" item for me going to be the same as for a light armored Templar healer who might use class skills and no resto staff. If you know the best in class for each of us and where it comes from - do tell.
If you don't have that information then all you know is at least 2 items got a balance review on the crafting side, that's all from the person we quoted. If the person was wearing crafted gear, did they have time to go find someone with non-crafted gear and see if it was changed at all etc.
No I do not have a list of all, i am just going by what I have heard from multiple PTS testers at veteran rank that you're wearing mostly dropped items that are upgraded and the crafted items (that they know of at least) are not comparable whereas previously the crafted items could be comporable (and some superior, not all).
Where you had many choice on what to build.
PEople are saying the lower cost sprint (he didn't say it was free, just much lower), do you think that's actually a worthwhile thing?
In a fight would you rather have free sprinting or say, 10+ more crit dmg? PErsonally the cirt dmg would help more in a melee/team fight then sprinting ever would.
It's a trade off, nothing is ever "Balanced" in mmo's, its always a shifting game when they tweak this something else pops up that seems unbalanced (even if it wasn't even changed) because the other items were brought down lower/not as worthwhile anymore.
Yeh, you are right. I think that many of the people that are freaking out about this must be Elder Scrolls fans that are new to MMOs. Balancing gear is a constant process in most MMOs. For example, GW2 is making a change soon that will make their hardest to complete set of gear(ascended celestial) completely useless. I don't really consider tweaking how much you can decrease the cost of sprint to be that big of a deal compared to some of the other stuff I've seen in MMOs over the years.
He made a Legendary weapon but only an Epic enchant he says, still a good example to show that enchants have the same kind of upgrade system that armor or weapons do.
he states this at 6:03 of the video.
He talks a bit about traits, he calls them gems. They give bonus's hes talking about. Ruby is actually "Precise" for weapons. When he talks about gems, he also incorrectly says that these trait gems can only be used in certain slots.
Actually the Ruby can be used only on weapons, along with Chysolite, Amethyst, Jade, Turquoise, Carnelian, Fire Opal, Citrine, for all weapons made by Blacksmithing and woodworking.
You can use Quartz, diamond, sardonyx, almandine, emerald, bloodstone, garnet, and sapphire on all types of armor clothier, blacksmithing and woodworking.
I wouldn't take much of what he says as fact, because he is having a hard time sorting though whats an enchant and trait, but he tries, and is a good example only to show legendary weapon upgrades and epic enchant so far, how the enchants can get to be more powerful as they become higher quality.
He made a legendary weapon but only an Epic enchant he says, still a good example to show that enchants have the same kind of upgrade system that armor or weapons do.
he states this at 6:03 of the video.
I'm seeing logical points on both sides. It's one thing to theoretically say Crafters can make and enchant the best gear. But then, it's another to say, "Yeah, but everyone in beta is wearing mostly dropped gear." Well, OK, but why? What's the reason for what most players are wearing and will this reason change as the game wears on or in this case, the meta.
I don't care about lower level gear, I want to know what the meta is going to be on this issue. What is the reality going to be when the majority of the game is at cap and players are starting to settle into the gear they want, what will they be wearing and why?
The best set-bonuses in Veteran/PvP content does not come from ANY discovered crafting researches. The only crafting class worth even caring about is enchanter, you do not need to train any of the armor crafts extensively because they can simply promote to legendary given enough reagents. You're not going to wear crafted gear in veteran content.
You must get the drops for the set-bonuses then you get it promoted, and finally can enchant it, unless the enchantment you want is drop-unique... good luck farming. Ultimately you have to get the drop first because crafting set-bonuses are trash. The armor is ultimately statistically identical, as the devs said, but the bonuses are what you care about and the crafted bonuses are complete garbage.
And there was no reason for them to nerf leveling across the board and force us to grind through their cliche story. The game was fine before when we could level however we wanted, now we have no option.
He made a legendary weapon but only an Epic enchant he says, still a good example to show that enchants have the same kind of upgrade system that armor or weapons do.
he states this at 6:03 of the video.
I'm seeing logical points on both sides. It's one thing to theoretically say Crafters can make and enchant the best gear. But then, it's another to say, "Yeah, but everyone in beta is wearing mostly dropped gear." Well, OK, but why? What's the reason for what most players are wearing and will this reason change as the game wears on or in this case, the meta.
I don't care about lower level gear, I want to know what the meta is going to be on this issue. What is the reality going to be when the majority of the game is at cap and players are starting to settle into the gear they want, what will they be wearing and why?
That is what I want to know.
Actually its not theoretic to say crafters can make the best gear BECAUSE DEVS STATED THIS, It is theoretical to say that drops are all BETTER THEN CRAFTED, when this has never been stated by the devs, and only proof someone can show us is a HALF FINISHED PIECE OF CRAFTING GEAR compared to A DROP.
The reason you see most people wearing drop gear in beta, is because its HARD to obtain the mats needed to upgrade a weapon or armor piece to Legendary, and also HARD to find a LEGENDARY ENCHANT, No one has yet found a legendary quality enchant as of yet.
This guy is the only guy I have seen yet, that even has a legendary weapon, almost no one has seen legendary upgradge items level 10 or under. THUS because of RARITY, you wont see many people leveling up with LEGENDARY GEAR.
I bet we see a lot of lower level PVP'rs using Legendary gear to scale up in pvp agasinst higher lvl players, but that's the only use for it I see. As far as end game goes, I have no double a lot of people will try to get them, but its going to be VERY RARE, because of MATS I'm guessing, so most people even END game wont be wearing CRAFTED BEST GEAR for quite some time.
Kind of a moot/odd point to make, but shouldn't the legendary text be orange instead of yellow? In some old school games, yellow either meant rare (step above blue) or an "even con'ed" item.
Originally posted by Talemire Kind of a moot/odd point to make, but shouldn't the legendary text be orange instead of yellow? In some old school games, yellow either meant rare (step above blue) or an "even con'ed" item.
Nope, its Yellow, I just checked. But yeah, a lot of games do use orange as legenary
This one is common (white) fine (green) rare (blue) epic (purple) then legendary (yellow)
He made a legendary weapon but only an Epic enchant he says, still a good example to show that enchants have the same kind of upgrade system that armor or weapons do.
he states this at 6:03 of the video.
I'm seeing logical points on both sides. It's one thing to theoretically say Crafters can make and enchant the best gear. But then, it's another to say, "Yeah, but everyone in beta is wearing mostly dropped gear." Well, OK, but why? What's the reason for what most players are wearing and will this reason change as the game wears on or in this case, the meta.
I don't care about lower level gear, I want to know what the meta is going to be on this issue. What is the reality going to be when the majority of the game is at cap and players are starting to settle into the gear they want, what will they be wearing and why?
That is what I want to know.
Actually its not theoretic to say crafters can make the best gear BECAUSE DEVS STATED THIS, It is theoretical to say that drops are all BETTER THEN CRAFTED, when this has never been stated by the devs, and only proof someone can show us is a HALF FINISHED PIECE OF CRAFTING GEAR compared to A DROP.
The reason you see most people wearing drop gear in beta, is because its HARD to obtain the mats needed to upgrade a weapon or armor piece to Legendary, and also HARD to find a LEGENDARY ENCHANT, No one has yet found a legendary quality enchant as of yet.
This guy is the only guy I have seen yet, that even has a legendary weapon, almost no one has seen legendary upgradge items level 10 or under. THUS because of RARITY, you wont see many people leveling up with LEGENDARY GEAR.
I bet we see a lot of lower level PVP'rs using Legendary gear to scale up in pvp agasinst higher lvl players, but that's the only use for it I see. As far as end game goes, I have no double a lot of people will try to get them, but its going to be VERY RARE, because of MATS I'm guessing, so most people even END game wont be wearing CRAFTED BEST GEAR for quite some time.
Ultimately, I don't need crafted gear to be better than looted gear. Just competitive with looted gear. Slight differences in stats that can be overcome with play style and other controllable factors, I can live with. And right now, that does appear to be the case. Assuming, of course, that I can actually make the enchants (That seems to be the craft I will be looking at for now)
Ultimately, I don't need crafted gear to be better than looted gear. Just competitive with looted gear. Slight differences in stats that can be overcome with play style and other controllable factors, I can live with. And right now, that does appear to be the case. Assuming, of course, that I can actually make the enchants (That seems to be the craft I will be looking at for now)
Statistically identical, enchantments can be added (mostly) but its the set-bonuses that toss crafted-gear into irrelevance.
Originally posted by Knotwood
Actually its not theoretic to say crafters can make the best gear BECAUSE DEVS STATED THIS, It is theoretical to say that drops are all BETTER THEN CRAFTED, when this has never been stated by the devs, and only proof someone can show us is a HALF FINISHED PIECE OF CRAFTING GEAR compared to A DROP.
You're really desperate to change reality to your liking, aren't you?
They, your beloved developers, have already said what the differences are between the crafted and dropped gear. End of the day, though, it USED to be that the set-bonuses between the sets were actually fairly well balanced against each other with roles in different builds. Now, crafted set-bonuses are trash. They just never gave you the details because people, like yourself, eat up their vague words and "promises".
The best set-bonuses in Veteran/PvP content does not come from ANY discovered crafting researches. The only crafting class worth even caring about is enchanter, you do not need to train any of the armor crafts extensively because they can simply promote to legendary given enough reagents. You're not going to wear crafted gear in veteran content.
You must get the drops for the set-bonuses then you get it promoted, and finally can enchant it, unless the enchantment you want is drop-unique... good luck farming. Ultimately you have to get the drop first because crafting set-bonuses are trash. The armor is ultimately statistically identical, as the devs said, but the bonuses are what you care about and the crafted bonuses are complete garbage.
And there was no reason for them to nerf leveling across the board and force us to grind through their cliche story. The game was fine before when we could level however we wanted, now we have no option.
please link pictures to dropped vs crafted bonuses. Simply stating crafting bonuses are trash is subjective and does little to support your view. What were the bonuses prior to patch and after in relation to dropped? What is the frequency of dropped sets?
Lets deal with objective facts rather than opinion based on literally no evidence. How much was XP reduced per individual kill versus grouping? How much was exploration xp nerfed? What was the farming progression speed?
You are trying to portray these issues as simplistic when they are not. If the changes are as extreme as you and others claim on here, where is the proof and overwhelming feedback? Very few testers are coming out about this. Why if these changes are so profound it makes the game not worth buying?
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
The title is misleading, if you believe word of mouth based on misunderstandings and someone comparing unfinished crafted gear to drop gear as gold. Then by all means do so.
I tend to listen to the Devs which have said that crafted gear will be the BEST GEAR IN GAME and have never said that DROPS will be. On the other hand the devs NEVER SAID "CRAFTED WILL BE BETTER!" so its quite possible Drops are EQUALLY AS GOOD also. Like comparing a Imperial Race to another Race, NEITHER ARE BETTER, one is not more POWERFUL then the other, BOTH are UNIQUE.
The OP uses someones words of another PLAYER< NOT DEV, which took a piece of gear upgraded to legendary by a blacksmith, or tailor. WHICH HAD NO LEGENDARY ENCHANT ON IT, and then said the drop was better which had an EMBEDED ENCHANT on it. Of course the drop would be better, when you compare it to an unfinished CRAFTED GEAR with NO LEGENDARY ENCHANT on it!!
Ultimately, I don't need crafted gear to be better than looted gear. Just competitive with looted gear. Slight differences in stats that can be overcome with play style and other controllable factors, I can live with. And right now, that does appear to be the case. Assuming, of course, that I can actually make the enchants (That seems to be the craft I will be looking at for now)
Statistically identical, enchantments can be added (mostly) but its the set-bonuses that toss crafted-gear into irrelevance.
Originally posted by Knotwood
Actually its not theoretic to say crafters can make the best gear BECAUSE DEVS STATED THIS, It is theoretical to say that drops are all BETTER THEN CRAFTED, when this has never been stated by the devs, and only proof someone can show us is a HALF FINISHED PIECE OF CRAFTING GEAR compared to A DROP.
You're really desperate to change reality to your liking, aren't you?
They, your beloved developers, have already said what the differences are between the crafted and dropped gear. End of the day, though, it USED to be that the set-bonuses between the sets were actually fairly well balanced against each other with roles in different builds. Now, crafted set-bonuses are trash. They just never gave you the details because people, like yourself, eat up their vague words and "promises".
I was all set to pre-order. Then I found out about crafted gear being sub par. This thread is like a ping pong match. How can any one person who isn't full time dedicated to finding every detail on this game ever learn what is the REAL game? It's practically impossible. Even in this thread, it's not until many informed people spill what they know on a specific topic that a bigger picture begins to emerge.
Honestly, I'm still leaning to disappointment though. Oh well. I'll still keep the game on my watch list, but I doubt I'll be buying it before or at release though. We'll see how it pans out when players begin to reach cap and what players are wearing.
As I said in my prior post. I want to know the reality of TESO. Not the theory. Devs can spit out all their intentions they want. Players wil discover things the devs could not have forseen. That's a given. And when that happens, it can change the game. It's not that I don't trust what the devs say. I do believe that is their intent. But it's not until players find loopholes that we see where the game goes.
The best set-bonuses in Veteran/PvP content does not come from ANY discovered crafting researches. The only crafting class worth even caring about is enchanter, you do not need to train any of the armor crafts extensively because they can simply promote to legendary given enough reagents. You're not going to wear crafted gear in veteran content.
You must get the drops for the set-bonuses then you get it promoted, and finally can enchant it, unless the enchantment you want is drop-unique... good luck farming. Ultimately you have to get the drop first because crafting set-bonuses are trash. The armor is ultimately statistically identical, as the devs said, but the bonuses are what you care about and the crafted bonuses are complete garbage.
And there was no reason for them to nerf leveling across the board and force us to grind through their cliche story. The game was fine before when we could level however we wanted, now we have no option.
What I see is someone with two posts making a bunch of bold claims and nothing more, we'll see when the game releases or more information comes out. Wouldn't be the first time i've seen a bunch of outrage brought here over nothing from posters like yourself.
I kind of have a rule to not trust posts that start with nonsense like yours. TESDF? grow the hell up
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've been watching streaming for a long time, and I thought everybody know it would be like that.
When you want to get your "maximum" stuff, you have to loot a piece that has the enchant and the trait you want, and then you upgrade it to legendary with crafting. You can still craft the pieces and then upgrade, but some traits and enchants are only available by looting (and I think looted items provides better base stats, but I'm not sure)
Comments
Do you have a source for this? Any info on the legendary enchantments/what they offer vs the dropped gear that has the unique enchantments you can't craft?
Directly from Paul Sage:
http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/live-community-q-a-with-paul-sage-topic-crafting.937/page-3#post-11877
"certain enchantments can only be found on drops."
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/02/18/video-blacksmithing-in-tamriel
Watch minute 6:40
"THEY CAN TAKE THE BEST ITEMS IN THE WORLD AND MAKE THEM BETTER AND CAN ALSO MAKE THE BEST GEAR" - DEVS OF ESO
To believe anything diferant is going to set you up for a HUGE heartbreak.
Enchanters who can make Legendary Enchantments will be able to complete the Blacksmith and Tailors best made gear in game and make it as good as any drop in the entire world.
The guy you quoted is actually comparing gear that is not fully finished by NOT having a LEGENDARY ENCHANT on it, and because of this, he is really comparing a DROP ITEM to a UNFINISHED PIECE OF GEAR.
No I do not have a list of all, i am just going by what I have heard from multiple PTS testers at veteran rank that you're wearing mostly dropped items that are upgraded and the crafted items (that they know of at least) are not comparable whereas previously the crafted items could be comporable (and some superior, not all).
Where you had many choice on what to build.
PEople are saying the lower cost sprint (he didn't say it was free, just much lower), do you think that's actually a worthwhile thing?
In a fight would you rather have free sprinting or say, 10+ more crit dmg? PErsonally the cirt dmg would help more in a melee/team fight then sprinting ever would.
It's a trade off, nothing is ever "Balanced" in mmo's, its always a shifting game when they tweak this something else pops up that seems unbalanced (even if it wasn't even changed) because the other items were brought down lower/not as worthwhile anymore.
This is 100% true. Its what makes drops Unique, but to say they are better then Legendary Enchantments or are more powerful is also false. it would be like comparing one race to another and saying one race is more powerful then the other, like they did with the Imperial race debate.
Paul Sage talks about how these drops CANNOT be enchanted, because that is their enchantment, raid drops will be an enchantment that's embedded onto that piece of gear. Which is TRUE,
Now does PAUL SAGE say "Certain enchantments can only be found on drops, BUT ARE BETTER THEN ANY OTHER CRAFTED PIECE OF GEAR THAT WE CAME OUT AND SAID CRAFTED CAN BE THE BEST GEAR IN THE GAME?"
No he did not say that. He is explaining how Drop items will work, not how good they are compared to other gear, BUT THEY HAVE SAID HOW GOOD CRAFTER GEAR WILL BE....
Given the statement that crafters can make the BEST GEAR in GAME by the devs outlined here we can assume that LEGENDARY ENCHANTS are indeed the determinaing factor in how powerful the end game gear crafted can be.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/02/18/video-blacksmithing-in-tamriel minute 6:40 of the video
Add this along with the fact that LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS can be made, You actually can prove the fact that the LEGENDARY ENCHANTMENTS will be as powerful as the EMBEDED ENCHANTMENT drop items.
Does this make more sense to you?
This has always been true, but people like to freak out. The problem seems to be that a crafter in a single profession can make legendary quality gear, but still needs another legendary profession to complete it. Players want to have it all, without help.
Drops will be the best gear you can get just playing the game. Probably will be the quickest to get this gear. As well as needed for research for crafters. But two legendary crafters. One in Enchanting and another who makes gear can create legendary gear that will be specific to player builds. It will take longer, but will be the best IMO.
That means top PvE players will need crafters and crafters will need top PvE players. Both groups working together as in a guild will come out with the best gear in the game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I see a lot of knee jerk reactions in this thread to normal progression of an MMO 's development.
The crafting information was previously known for those that bothered to look and the macro view of crafting has not changed. Really the chief complaint is that excessive bonuses are not available through crafting anymore. Having permanent bonuses 150 - 200% greater than short term skill bonuses (looking at you attack speed and weapon dmg) should not exist and seems to have been corrected. This puts the game more squarely in a tactical resource managed fighting arena which everyone should want.
The XP reduction has not been fully tested and we do not know how impacting it will be overall. Does anyone really think this is the final balance pass for XP? MMOs are always in flux even after release. The jury is out on the XP changes and most that play the game will not know how it use to be from where it is now. It sounds like what they want is slower progression and to deter XP farming to power level up to 50 V10. This is what you get with a sub game, not sure why it has surprised anyone.
The only thing I can fault concerning the mod nerfs is that they should have been done earlier in development. I can understand mod developers being upset as they have wasted time developing mods which will never see the game. As to the nerfs themselves, again I have no problem with them as it makes the game more competitive. Seeing values from an enemy, PvE and PvP, gave an advantage and made those mods essential. Removing access to that information was the right thing for the overall health of the game. Mods should always be viewed as icing, not the cake.
If these changes are truly game breaking, why is there not more outrage from testers? The NDA was lifted, so it is not a suppression from the game developers, but rather apathy over the changes from the majority of testers. For the doom and gloom in this thread every ESO site should be lit up right now, they simply are not.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
So all the freaking out about crafted gear vs drops can stop... the OP is/was misinformed.
We can also put to rest all the talk about nerfed xp rates. That ONLY pertains to veteran levels. (atleast thats what was said by multiple people on twitch streams).
Yeh, you are right. I think that many of the people that are freaking out about this must be Elder Scrolls fans that are new to MMOs. Balancing gear is a constant process in most MMOs. For example, GW2 is making a change soon that will make their hardest to complete set of gear(ascended celestial) completely useless. I don't really consider tweaking how much you can decrease the cost of sprint to be that big of a deal compared to some of the other stuff I've seen in MMOs over the years.
He made a Legendary weapon but only an Epic enchant he says, still a good example to show that enchants have the same kind of upgrade system that armor or weapons do.
he states this at 6:03 of the video.
He talks a bit about traits, he calls them gems. They give bonus's hes talking about. Ruby is actually "Precise" for weapons. When he talks about gems, he also incorrectly says that these trait gems can only be used in certain slots.
Actually the Ruby can be used only on weapons, along with Chysolite, Amethyst, Jade, Turquoise, Carnelian, Fire Opal, Citrine, for all weapons made by Blacksmithing and woodworking.
You can use Quartz, diamond, sardonyx, almandine, emerald, bloodstone, garnet, and sapphire on all types of armor clothier, blacksmithing and woodworking.
I wouldn't take much of what he says as fact, because he is having a hard time sorting though whats an enchant and trait, but he tries, and is a good example only to show legendary weapon upgrades and epic enchant so far, how the enchants can get to be more powerful as they become higher quality.
I'm seeing logical points on both sides. It's one thing to theoretically say Crafters can make and enchant the best gear. But then, it's another to say, "Yeah, but everyone in beta is wearing mostly dropped gear." Well, OK, but why? What's the reason for what most players are wearing and will this reason change as the game wears on or in this case, the meta.
I don't care about lower level gear, I want to know what the meta is going to be on this issue. What is the reality going to be when the majority of the game is at cap and players are starting to settle into the gear they want, what will they be wearing and why?
That is what I want to know.
I see that TESDF has arrived to skew details.
The best set-bonuses in Veteran/PvP content does not come from ANY discovered crafting researches. The only crafting class worth even caring about is enchanter, you do not need to train any of the armor crafts extensively because they can simply promote to legendary given enough reagents. You're not going to wear crafted gear in veteran content.
You must get the drops for the set-bonuses then you get it promoted, and finally can enchant it, unless the enchantment you want is drop-unique... good luck farming. Ultimately you have to get the drop first because crafting set-bonuses are trash. The armor is ultimately statistically identical, as the devs said, but the bonuses are what you care about and the crafted bonuses are complete garbage.
And there was no reason for them to nerf leveling across the board and force us to grind through their cliche story. The game was fine before when we could level however we wanted, now we have no option.
Actually its not theoretic to say crafters can make the best gear BECAUSE DEVS STATED THIS, It is theoretical to say that drops are all BETTER THEN CRAFTED, when this has never been stated by the devs, and only proof someone can show us is a HALF FINISHED PIECE OF CRAFTING GEAR compared to A DROP.
The reason you see most people wearing drop gear in beta, is because its HARD to obtain the mats needed to upgrade a weapon or armor piece to Legendary, and also HARD to find a LEGENDARY ENCHANT, No one has yet found a legendary quality enchant as of yet.
This guy is the only guy I have seen yet, that even has a legendary weapon, almost no one has seen legendary upgradge items level 10 or under. THUS because of RARITY, you wont see many people leveling up with LEGENDARY GEAR.
I bet we see a lot of lower level PVP'rs using Legendary gear to scale up in pvp agasinst higher lvl players, but that's the only use for it I see. As far as end game goes, I have no double a lot of people will try to get them, but its going to be VERY RARE, because of MATS I'm guessing, so most people even END game wont be wearing CRAFTED BEST GEAR for quite some time.
Nope, its Yellow, I just checked. But yeah, a lot of games do use orange as legenary
This one is common (white) fine (green) rare (blue) epic (purple) then legendary (yellow)
Ultimately, I don't need crafted gear to be better than looted gear. Just competitive with looted gear. Slight differences in stats that can be overcome with play style and other controllable factors, I can live with. And right now, that does appear to be the case. Assuming, of course, that I can actually make the enchants (That seems to be the craft I will be looking at for now)
Statistically identical, enchantments can be added (mostly) but its the set-bonuses that toss crafted-gear into irrelevance.
You're really desperate to change reality to your liking, aren't you?
They, your beloved developers, have already said what the differences are between the crafted and dropped gear. End of the day, though, it USED to be that the set-bonuses between the sets were actually fairly well balanced against each other with roles in different builds. Now, crafted set-bonuses are trash. They just never gave you the details because people, like yourself, eat up their vague words and "promises".
please link pictures to dropped vs crafted bonuses. Simply stating crafting bonuses are trash is subjective and does little to support your view. What were the bonuses prior to patch and after in relation to dropped? What is the frequency of dropped sets?
Lets deal with objective facts rather than opinion based on literally no evidence. How much was XP reduced per individual kill versus grouping? How much was exploration xp nerfed? What was the farming progression speed?
You are trying to portray these issues as simplistic when they are not. If the changes are as extreme as you and others claim on here, where is the proof and overwhelming feedback? Very few testers are coming out about this. Why if these changes are so profound it makes the game not worth buying?
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
My gaming blog
The title is misleading, if you believe word of mouth based on misunderstandings and someone comparing unfinished crafted gear to drop gear as gold. Then by all means do so.
I tend to listen to the Devs which have said that crafted gear will be the BEST GEAR IN GAME and have never said that DROPS will be. On the other hand the devs NEVER SAID "CRAFTED WILL BE BETTER!" so its quite possible Drops are EQUALLY AS GOOD also. Like comparing a Imperial Race to another Race, NEITHER ARE BETTER, one is not more POWERFUL then the other, BOTH are UNIQUE.
The OP uses someones words of another PLAYER< NOT DEV, which took a piece of gear upgraded to legendary by a blacksmith, or tailor. WHICH HAD NO LEGENDARY ENCHANT ON IT, and then said the drop was better which had an EMBEDED ENCHANT on it. Of course the drop would be better, when you compare it to an unfinished CRAFTED GEAR with NO LEGENDARY ENCHANT on it!!
I was all set to pre-order. Then I found out about crafted gear being sub par. This thread is like a ping pong match. How can any one person who isn't full time dedicated to finding every detail on this game ever learn what is the REAL game? It's practically impossible. Even in this thread, it's not until many informed people spill what they know on a specific topic that a bigger picture begins to emerge.
Honestly, I'm still leaning to disappointment though. Oh well. I'll still keep the game on my watch list, but I doubt I'll be buying it before or at release though. We'll see how it pans out when players begin to reach cap and what players are wearing.
As I said in my prior post. I want to know the reality of TESO. Not the theory. Devs can spit out all their intentions they want. Players wil discover things the devs could not have forseen. That's a given. And when that happens, it can change the game. It's not that I don't trust what the devs say. I do believe that is their intent. But it's not until players find loopholes that we see where the game goes.
What I see is someone with two posts making a bunch of bold claims and nothing more, we'll see when the game releases or more information comes out. Wouldn't be the first time i've seen a bunch of outrage brought here over nothing from posters like yourself.
I kind of have a rule to not trust posts that start with nonsense like yours. TESDF? grow the hell up
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've been watching streaming for a long time, and I thought everybody know it would be like that.
When you want to get your "maximum" stuff, you have to loot a piece that has the enchant and the trait you want, and then you upgrade it to legendary with crafting. You can still craft the pieces and then upgrade, but some traits and enchants are only available by looting (and I think looted items provides better base stats, but I'm not sure)
Having to loot certain components for the best gear wouldn't be much different than SWG's system. AT least in that respect.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson