Originally posted by PpiperI can't believe the melodrama here over something so benign. Really?
well.. it IS mmorpg.com
Where getting lied to by Devs is common place.I should know better by now.
Does it really matter? either play or don't play. As far as lies go... everyone does it... so... who's the hypocritical one?
It matters. Maybe not to you, but it matters to me. I Paid for a game, under the illusion it was a sub game with no cash shop. Now they have a cash shop.
I thought they weren't going to have a cash shop at launch? I was expecting charges for services such as name changes and the like, but I could have sworn they said they wouldn't have a cash shop at launch. My imagination running wild again.
So many jagged folks who will never be happy regardless.
Here is my vote on this - I just bought a second copy of the Digital Imperial Edition. Do I need it? NO! But I want to support this game in spite of the twits throwing these never-ending hissy-fits so my money goes to the publishers cash shop or not.
It doesn't matter if it's pay to lose. They lied. That's it. You can't lie and keep trust. That cash shop will be full soon enough if they can break their promise they can do it again.
We have zero evidence that anyone lied. They could have simply changed their minds. It's only a lie if they didn't mean it when they said it.
That said, anyone who honestly thought there wouldn't be a cash shop eventually was not being rational. It doesn't matter what they said, common sense dictates that eventually games will have cash shops, because it's bad business for them not to have them.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
There's no squirming out of this one. This makes what they said last August/September appear deliberately misleading. Minus 10 credibility.
Also a very dumb PR move that fuels one of the favorite hater digs at the game... a dig we've been telling them for months was unwarranted... guess what? It no longer is.
PS: in the beta forums that are normally gushing with giddy positive comments the night before a beta test, this has been at the top of the general "Sanguine" section for quite a while... the poll there is now running 77% against.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't think they are confident that the game will do well for very long.. I think they are adding a cash shop so that it will already be embedded as part of the game, so if they were ever to go the F2P route they wouldn't have to try and figure out how they will monetize it.
I bet they are already deciding and designing the cash shop systems as we speak. I'm sorry but I smell a sinking ship, and they feel it. This is not only a test, but a necessary step in the life of the game..
At least one thing is for sure, it will be somewhat of a smooth transition if it ever were to happen.
I don't think they are confident that the game will do well for very long.. I think they are adding a cash shop so that it will already be embedded as part of the game, so if they were ever to go the F2P route they wouldn't have to try and figure out how they will monetize it.
I bet they are already deciding and designing the cash shop systems as we speak. I'm sorry but I smell a sinking ship, and they feel it. This is not only a test, but a necessary step in the life of the game..
At least one thing is for sure, it will be somewhat of a smooth transition if it ever were to happen.
You're living in the past. Cash shops and free options aren't signs of a failed game. They are signs of a game run by people who aren't idiots, and have decided not to fail.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Goodness knows there are no subscription games left for me.
Someday a company will go in the other direction and make a pure AAA sub game, may even be a higher sub, but ALL content will be available and they will keep it fresh and...ah, who am I kidding.
Goodness knows there are no subscription games left for me.
Someday a company will go in the other direction and make a pure AAA sub game, may even be a higher sub, but ALL content will be available and they will keep it fresh and...ah, who am I kidding.
I thought someday was here and now. Guess I was kidding myself also.
I don't think they are confident that the game will do well for very long.. I think they are adding a cash shop so that it will already be embedded as part of the game, so if they were ever to go the F2P route they wouldn't have to try and figure out how they will monetize it.
I bet they are already deciding and designing the cash shop systems as we speak. I'm sorry but I smell a sinking ship, and they feel it. This is not only a test, but a necessary step in the life of the game..
At least one thing is for sure, it will be somewhat of a smooth transition if it ever were to happen.
You're living in the past. Cash shops and free options aren't signs of a failed game. They are signs of a game run by people who aren't idiots, and have decided not to fail.
I've been playing Elder Scroll Games for years.
Because they added this in-game shop that sells mechanical advantages to players in a subscription-based game... they've *lost* my $60 and probably at least 23 months of payment over the next few years (I'm sure I'd be on and off).
That's... -$405 over the next 4 years. You're gonna have to buy a lot of horses to make up for that, bro.
It is an idiotic decision to go with a pay-sub model AND sell items that give mechanical advantages. Even EA is smart enough to know that, and they're masters at price gouging.
Because they added this in-game shop that sells mechanical advantages to players in a subscription-based game... they've *lost* my $60 and probably at least 23 months of payment over the next few years (I'm sure I'd be on and off).
That's... -$405 over the next 2 years. You're gonna have to buy a lot of horses to make up for that, bro.
Calling it a mechanical advantage is a crock. The horses you can earn in game are better. And having a horse isn't going to cause you to win any fights. You don't get better at killing or not getting killed just because you got to the site of the battle more quickly. This is all much ado about nothing.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by niceguy3978 I thought they weren't going to have a cash shop at launch? I was expecting charges for services such as name changes and the like, but I could have sworn they said they wouldn't have a cash shop at launch. My imagination running wild again.
They did say that, they even responded to a "misinterpretation" that read that they would have a cash shop in a German magazine, by saying they wouldn't have one in plain words.
Make of it what you will, if it's a cash shop it certainly is a 180 on their previous statements. Although it's not clear by the wording here how exactly this will work. Maybe it's something you do outside of game and it gives you a horse unlock per account. We'll see.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Because they added this in-game shop that sells mechanical advantages to players in a subscription-based game... they've *lost* my $60 and probably at least 23 months of payment over the next few years (I'm sure I'd be on and off).
That's... -$405 over the next 2 years. You're gonna have to buy a lot of horses to make up for that, bro.
Calling it a mechanical advantage is a crock. The horses you can earn in game are better. And having a horse isn't going to cause you to win any fights. You don't get better at killing or not getting killed just because you got to the site of the battle more quickly. This is all much ado about nothing.
Explain to me how I catch a player in PvP who bought a horse when I haven't yet gotten 17k to buy my own?
Or explain to me how I escape from one?
It's a mechanical advantage until I get 17k. You can deny it all you want, but it isn't gonna make my guy move any faster in the above situation.
In a F2P game, that's fine - not gonna fly when I'm shelling out $60 just to play my first month.
I don't think they are confident that the game will do well for very long.. I think they are adding a cash shop so that it will already be embedded as part of the game, so if they were ever to go the F2P route they wouldn't have to try and figure out how they will monetize it.
I bet they are already deciding and designing the cash shop systems as we speak. I'm sorry but I smell a sinking ship, and they feel it. This is not only a test, but a necessary step in the life of the game..
At least one thing is for sure, it will be somewhat of a smooth transition if it ever were to happen.
You're living in the past. Cash shops and free options aren't signs of a failed game. They are signs of a game run by people who aren't idiots, and have decided not to fail.
God you're so right man. Why didn't the other ES games have a cash-shop too. Man Bethesda/Zenimax were such idiots back then. Hell even early WoW, Ultima, EQ. What were they thinking just having a sub-fee?
OMG you know what I just realized? Zenimax are still idiots....why are they charging a 15$ a month sub when they could be charging 30$...its so obvious.
I cancelled my preorder. I just can't get behind a company that vehemently defends the choice of having a box fee, sub fee & cash shop. Also got some pretty meh vibes from the stress tests.
Goodness knows there are no subscription games left for me.
Someday a company will go in the other direction and make a pure AAA sub game, may even be a higher sub, but ALL content will be available and they will keep it fresh and...ah, who am I kidding.
I thought someday was here and now. Guess I was kidding myself also.
Sad thing is there is an actual big market for it and they are just too obtuse to realize it. I know I miss looking at another player and having respect for what they accomplished...now not so much...just more and more boosting and mechanics "for sale"...as for as this not being mechanical, what else do you call a speed buff? Can I really group with a bunch of friends, all on horses and I don't have one? Of course not. At its core it is a leveling boost, as those with horses can get from point A to B much faster, going through content faster, so on.
Originally posted by niceguy3978 I thought they weren't going to have a cash shop at launch? I was expecting charges for services such as name changes and the like, but I could have sworn they said they wouldn't have a cash shop at launch. My imagination running wild again.
They did say that, they even responded to a "misinterpretation" that read that they would have a cash shop in a German magazine, by saying they wouldn't have one in plain words.
Make of it what you will, if it's a cash shop it certainly is a 180 on their previous statements. Although it's not clear by the wording here how exactly this will work. Maybe it's something you do outside of game and it gives you a horse unlock per account. We'll see.
It is outside of the game. Still... you can't really stretch "fun stuff" into an in-game horse.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
They gave you the option to buy a basic horse...you get to quests quicker so you level quicker. Could just enjoy the game and enjoy your time in it? Just a suggestion and the best part is you don't even have to buy the horse that is I believe..5.99?
Originally posted by niceguy3978 I thought they weren't going to have a cash shop at launch? I was expecting charges for services such as name changes and the like, but I could have sworn they said they wouldn't have a cash shop at launch. My imagination running wild again.
They did say that, they even responded to a "misinterpretation" that read that they would have a cash shop in a German magazine, by saying they wouldn't have one in plain words.
Make of it what you will, if it's a cash shop it certainly is a 180 on their previous statements. Although it's not clear by the wording here how exactly this will work. Maybe it's something you do outside of game and it gives you a horse unlock per account. We'll see.
It is outside of the game. Still... you can't really stretch "fun stuff" into an in-game horse.
True..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Explain to me how I catch a player in PvP who bought a horse when I haven't yet gotten 17k to buy my own?
Or explain to me how I escape from one?
It's a mechanical advantage until I get 17k. You can deny it all you want, but it isn't gonna make my guy move any faster in the above situation.
In a F2P game, that's fine - not gonna fly when I'm shelling out $60 just to play my first month.
Why do you need to catch them? PvP in ESO is about controlling static locations. If they want to run away from the location of the fight, that's a good thing, you can fight somebody who is still a problem. (Do we even know for sure that you can call your horse while you're in the middle of a fight?)
Originally posted by Randallt3mp
God you're so right man. Why didn't the other ES games have a cash-shop too. Man Bethesda/Zenimax were such idiots back then. Hell even early WoW, Ultima, EQ. What were they thinking just having a sub-fee?
OMG you know what I just realized? Zenimax are still idiots....why are they charging a 15$ a month sub when they could be charging 30$...its so obvious.
Weak, even as a joke. Compare to other similarly situated games. Cash shops are the norm for MMOs now, whether a game has a sub or not.
Originally posted by infiniti70
I know I miss looking at another player and having respect for what they accomplished.
You can still do this. If you see someone on a horse that isn't white or palomino, you know they didn't pay for it with real money.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Well, as a person who clearly stated that I wouldn't be playing ESO because of the sub fee, I actually support this move. Now if they could just add some fancier looking horses to the cash shop and drop that retarded sub fee this might be a game worth looking at.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Originally posted by Celdryn They gave you the option to buy a basic horse...you get to quests quicker so you level quicker. Could just enjoy the game and enjoy your time in it? Just a suggestion and the best part is you don't even have to buy the horse that is I believe..5.99?
If that was the extent of it, I'd probably be okay with it.
My concern is in PvP - these horses are fully utilizable there, by all accounts. Players who bought a horse for extra $$ will have an enormous advantage in World PvP over those who haven't yet saved for 17k, or 40k... whatever it is. Both chasing other players down, escaping from others and just being able to get where the action is much faster.
You want to sell me a name-change or a new skin for the mount I've already bought with gold - vanity stuff like that - that's fine. Stuff that gives a mechanical advantage? That's a deal-breaker for me. Forget it.
Comments
soooo.. get a refund.
So many jagged folks who will never be happy regardless.
Here is my vote on this - I just bought a second copy of the Digital Imperial Edition. Do I need it? NO! But I want to support this game in spite of the twits throwing these never-ending hissy-fits so my money goes to the publishers cash shop or not.
Playing: varies every day it seems.
Doesn't bother me at all...it's optional and IMO not game play affecting.
If it was mandatory then I would have a problem with it.
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We have zero evidence that anyone lied. They could have simply changed their minds. It's only a lie if they didn't mean it when they said it.
That said, anyone who honestly thought there wouldn't be a cash shop eventually was not being rational. It doesn't matter what they said, common sense dictates that eventually games will have cash shops, because it's bad business for them not to have them.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
There's no squirming out of this one. This makes what they said last August/September appear deliberately misleading. Minus 10 credibility.
Also a very dumb PR move that fuels one of the favorite hater digs at the game... a dig we've been telling them for months was unwarranted... guess what? It no longer is.
PS: in the beta forums that are normally gushing with giddy positive comments the night before a beta test, this has been at the top of the general "Sanguine" section for quite a while... the poll there is now running 77% against.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't think they are confident that the game will do well for very long.. I think they are adding a cash shop so that it will already be embedded as part of the game, so if they were ever to go the F2P route they wouldn't have to try and figure out how they will monetize it.
I bet they are already deciding and designing the cash shop systems as we speak. I'm sorry but I smell a sinking ship, and they feel it. This is not only a test, but a necessary step in the life of the game..
At least one thing is for sure, it will be somewhat of a smooth transition if it ever were to happen.
You're living in the past. Cash shops and free options aren't signs of a failed game. They are signs of a game run by people who aren't idiots, and have decided not to fail.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Someday a company will go in the other direction and make a pure AAA sub game, may even be a higher sub, but ALL content will be available and they will keep it fresh and...ah, who am I kidding.
I thought someday was here and now. Guess I was kidding myself also.
I've been playing Elder Scroll Games for years.
Because they added this in-game shop that sells mechanical advantages to players in a subscription-based game... they've *lost* my $60 and probably at least 23 months of payment over the next few years (I'm sure I'd be on and off).
That's... -$405 over the next 4 years. You're gonna have to buy a lot of horses to make up for that, bro.
It is an idiotic decision to go with a pay-sub model AND sell items that give mechanical advantages. Even EA is smart enough to know that, and they're masters at price gouging.
Calling it a mechanical advantage is a crock. The horses you can earn in game are better. And having a horse isn't going to cause you to win any fights. You don't get better at killing or not getting killed just because you got to the site of the battle more quickly. This is all much ado about nothing.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
They did say that, they even responded to a "misinterpretation" that read that they would have a cash shop in a German magazine, by saying they wouldn't have one in plain words.
Make of it what you will, if it's a cash shop it certainly is a 180 on their previous statements. Although it's not clear by the wording here how exactly this will work. Maybe it's something you do outside of game and it gives you a horse unlock per account. We'll see.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Explain to me how I catch a player in PvP who bought a horse when I haven't yet gotten 17k to buy my own?
Or explain to me how I escape from one?
It's a mechanical advantage until I get 17k. You can deny it all you want, but it isn't gonna make my guy move any faster in the above situation.
In a F2P game, that's fine - not gonna fly when I'm shelling out $60 just to play my first month.
God you're so right man. Why didn't the other ES games have a cash-shop too. Man Bethesda/Zenimax were such idiots back then. Hell even early WoW, Ultima, EQ. What were they thinking just having a sub-fee?
OMG you know what I just realized? Zenimax are still idiots....why are they charging a 15$ a month sub when they could be charging 30$...its so obvious.
MMOs Played: FFXI,Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, GW2
Playing:None
Waiting For: Wildstar, The Repopulation, Archeage, TESO, Warhammer 40K:EC, EQN
Sad thing is there is an actual big market for it and they are just too obtuse to realize it. I know I miss looking at another player and having respect for what they accomplished...now not so much...just more and more boosting and mechanics "for sale"...as for as this not being mechanical, what else do you call a speed buff? Can I really group with a bunch of friends, all on horses and I don't have one? Of course not. At its core it is a leveling boost, as those with horses can get from point A to B much faster, going through content faster, so on.
Shame on them...
It is outside of the game. Still... you can't really stretch "fun stuff" into an in-game horse.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
True..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Weak, even as a joke. Compare to other similarly situated games. Cash shops are the norm for MMOs now, whether a game has a sub or not.
You can still do this. If you see someone on a horse that isn't white or palomino, you know they didn't pay for it with real money.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
If that was the extent of it, I'd probably be okay with it.
My concern is in PvP - these horses are fully utilizable there, by all accounts. Players who bought a horse for extra $$ will have an enormous advantage in World PvP over those who haven't yet saved for 17k, or 40k... whatever it is. Both chasing other players down, escaping from others and just being able to get where the action is much faster.
You want to sell me a name-change or a new skin for the mount I've already bought with gold - vanity stuff like that - that's fine. Stuff that gives a mechanical advantage? That's a deal-breaker for me. Forget it.