Originally posted by Gorwe Yeah, even Bartle agrees with me.
Eliminate the endgame. Let the game END. You can replay it or whatever(I have watched "Rambo", "Commando" or "Star Wars" over a dozen times now and they're still as fun as ever). There is no reason to turn games into undead abominations.
Also, let us see the consequences of our actions. TOR began this rather nicely. It's time that someone finished it.
In short: endgame makes no sense.
It makes sense....if youre subscrition based and want to condition people to pay sub again and again - Skinner box.
If that were the case, then no end actually makes more sense.
I'm tired of all the MMO gloom. I want to read about when MMOs became more than what they were, continuing the vision of their beginning.
Originally posted by SwashBuccaneer This article makes me weep for the genre that I used to love so much 10+ years ago.
Don't love genres, love individual games. If it's fun to play, play it. If it's not, don't. People who love genres and can't imagine not playing games within those genres are fanatics and fanaticism is not something to be proud of.
I totally agree.
In fact, when i decide what games to play, i don't really care which genre it is from .... i only care if it is fun to me.
A genre is as good as the latest game (in it) that i like.
Athletes are fanatical about sports. People are fanatical about their work. The only time being fanatical is bad is why you are doing crazy things that hurt yourself and other people around you.
I also care weather a game is fun or not. I don't generally find MMOs these days fun at all and no I won't just go play my single player game. I both enjoy talking about the topic and feel strongly that MMOs were better in the past then now.
I understand your feeling on the topic, but that doesn't mean you are right. As I've pointed out there are plenty of single player and co op games you could go play that are fun and the style you like. For someone who doesn't put any emphasis on games or achievement in games you sure seem to spend a lot of time defending you ideas of what an MMO should be. Someone who is casual and just plays games for entertainment shouldn't care enough to spend all this time defending their idea of what an MMO should be. My guess if you are a closet game fanatic of sorts. Perhaps you just don't realize it.
Well .. there are no right and wrong. I am fanatical about other things like work or family, but not about mere entertainment. And that is my personal choice. You can be as fanatical about MMOs as you like. In fact, my post is pretty clear that it is about me, and i am not imposing anything on anyone.
And yes, i play plenty of SP and co-op games. I hope you don't have the wrong idea that i mostly play MMOs just because i post here.
And you totally error on why i am here. I am here for the fun of discussions. In fact, if i feels so strongly about MMOs, i would be spending more time playing them, and less talking about them. It is always funny to see people on the internet, who have no idea who you are, pretend to know you better than yourself.
Cool another Bartle article that thinks he knows best and what every gamer wants. Can't believe people prescribe to this, it's even worse than MMO companies telling you what to like. What a hack.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by SwashBuccaneer This article makes me weep for the genre that I used to love so much 10+ years ago.
Don't love genres, love individual games. If it's fun to play, play it. If it's not, don't. People who love genres and can't imagine not playing games within those genres are fanatics and fanaticism is not something to be proud of.
Sorry I love the genre and enjoy the games within it. I love the games of other genres I enjoy though. That's what makes me a mmorpg enthusiast. I monitor, analyze, contemplate, discuss and experience games within this genre. I do not do that with sports games, action games, FPS games, racing games nor dating sims (hmmmmm). And it's the primary reason you can name a half dozen sites dedicated to this genre. But I'm not the type of mmorpg enthusiast insisting on a homogenized genre free from diversity. I'm actually looking for more diversity in the hopes of finding another version of UO one day.
The only way to do that is to expand the genre even further, forcing the emergence of sub genres within it. The MMO umbrella is the first step.
Yet people are constantly complaining that the genre is expanding in directions they don't like because they have a very narrow view of what an MMO is supposed to be. Even here on MMORPG.com, they're complaining that the site is becoming too diverse, talking about MOBAs, etc.
It doesn't matter what category a fun game falls under so long as it's a fun game. If you limit yourself to a certain category, as you seem to, then you're going to miss having a good time in other categories. It's your right to do so, of course, but when you're bored, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Originally posted by SwashBuccaneer This article makes me weep for the genre that I used to love so much 10+ years ago.
Don't love genres, love individual games. If it's fun to play, play it. If it's not, don't. People who love genres and can't imagine not playing games within those genres are fanatics and fanaticism is not something to be proud of.
I totally agree.
In fact, when i decide what games to play, i don't really care which genre it is from .... i only care if it is fun to me.
A genre is as good as the latest game (in it) that i like.
Athletes are fanatical about sports. People are fanatical about their work. The only time being fanatical is bad is why you are doing crazy things that hurt yourself and other people around you.
I also care weather a game is fun or not. I don't generally find MMOs these days fun at all and no I won't just go play my single player game. I both enjoy talking about the topic and feel strongly that MMOs were better in the past then now.
I understand your feeling on the topic, but that doesn't mean you are right. As I've pointed out there are plenty of single player and co op games you could go play that are fun and the style you like. For someone who doesn't put any emphasis on games or achievement in games you sure seem to spend a lot of time defending you ideas of what an MMO should be. Someone who is casual and just plays games for entertainment shouldn't care enough to spend all this time defending their idea of what an MMO should be. My guess if you are a closet game fanatic of sorts. Perhaps you just don't realize it.
Then don't play a game. Go do something else. Find another hobby. There are tons of things to do out there than living in a dream world, hoping that someone makes a good MMO. If they do, come back. Until then, find something worthwhile to do with your life. Fanaticism is *ALWAYS* bad. People need to live well-rounded lives.
Ran across an interesting article by Professor Richard Bartle, from May, 2013. This is in PDF format and quite insightful (inciteful? lol). Give it a perusal and share your thoughts.
I agree with a majority of what he's saying. The thing that I think rings true is that there has been a certain lost of art when it comes to games design. This is all genres of gaming. Talent seems to be spread out. Don't get me wrong I do think the companies always wanted to make money but the developers passion and creative control seem far more restricted then it was in the past. A lot of companies do less with more when compared to the old days.
I think the current application of MMORPG genre is like using gun powder only for fireworks.
Yet people are constantly complaining that the genre is expanding in directions they don't like because they have a very narrow view of what an MMO is supposed to be. Even here on MMORPG.com, they're complaining that the site is becoming too diverse, talking about MOBAs, etc.
It doesn't matter what category a fun game falls under so long as it's a fun game. If you limit yourself to a certain category, as you seem to, then you're going to miss having a good time in other categories. It's your right to do so, of course, but when you're bored, you have no one to blame but yourself.
They don't even agree on what the genre is.
But at the end of the day, it is their lives, and they can look at (or "love") a genre as much, and in any way they see fit.
If they want to limit themselves, and don't see the new fun things coming, it is their loss.
I agree with a majority of what he's saying. The thing that I think rings true is that there has been a certain lost of art when it comes to games design. This is all genres of gaming. Talent seems to be spread out. Don't get me wrong I do think the companies always wanted to make money but the developers passion and creative control seem far more restricted then it was in the past. A lot of companies do less with more when compared to the old days.
I think the current application of MMORPG genre is like using gun powder only for fireworks.
Agreed, sadly this is the byproduct of an industry "growing up". When money takes over the reigns, creativity takes the back seat.
It's not just games that had/have these issues.
Reaching the mass market by proven methods always wins out against making something innovative but risky.
That's why a strong mid budget & indie segment is so important. That's where designers can shine and good ideas can emerge.
Originally posted by SwashBuccaneer This article makes me weep for the genre that I used to love so much 10+ years ago.
Don't love genres, love individual games. If it's fun to play, play it. If it's not, don't. People who love genres and can't imagine not playing games within those genres are fanatics and fanaticism is not something to be proud of.
Sorry I love the genre and enjoy the games within it. I love the games of other genres I enjoy though. That's what makes me a mmorpg enthusiast. I monitor, analyze, contemplate, discuss and experience games within this genre. I do not do that with sports games, action games, FPS games, racing games nor dating sims (hmmmmm). And it's the primary reason you can name a half dozen sites dedicated to this genre. But I'm not the type of mmorpg enthusiast insisting on a homogenized genre free from diversity. I'm actually looking for more diversity in the hopes of finding another version of UO one day.
The only way to do that is to expand the genre even further, forcing the emergence of sub genres within it. The MMO umbrella is the first step.
Yet people are constantly complaining that the genre is expanding in directions they don't like because they have a very narrow view of what an MMO is supposed to be. Even here on MMORPG.com, they're complaining that the site is becoming too diverse, talking about MOBAs, etc.
It doesn't matter what category a fun game falls under so long as it's a fun game. If you limit yourself to a certain category, as you seem to, then you're going to miss having a good time in other categories. It's your right to do so, of course, but when you're bored, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Its the same reason you don't go to ESPN looking for world news on where Flight 370 ended up. People come here with an expectation of the news coverage. Trying to sneak in other games and passing them off as MMORPG is annoying. I don't know how many times I've clicked on links on games to find out its not an MMORPG. I don't really care what game they cover at least make sub-categories and not try to click bait with a brand new MMORPG that's really an RTS hero death match game.
Originally posted by Gorwe Yeah, even Bartle agrees with me.Eliminate the endgame. Let the game END. You can replay it or whatever(I have watched "Rambo", "Commando" or "Star Wars" over a dozen times now and they're still as fun as ever). There is no reason to turn games into undead abominations.Also, let us see the consequences of our actions. TOR began this rather nicely. It's time that someone finished it.In short: endgame makes no sense.
It makes sense....if youre subscrition based and want to condition people to pay sub again and again - Skinner box.
If that were the case, then no end actually makes more sense.I'm tired of all the MMO gloom. I want to read about when MMOs became more than what they were, continuing the vision of their beginning.
I am afraid that is not going to happen, without some kind of miracle. There are too many players spending too many bucks in the massively over-simplified, err... "efficient" MMOs of today for any sane developer to ignore.
Mixing "old world concepts" with "new age technology" would be awesome to see, I agree.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Aeonblades Cool another Bartle article that thinks he knows best and what every gamer wants. Can't believe people prescribe to this, it's even worse than MMO companies telling you what to like. What a hack.
So you disagree with him. That's fine. Not every MMO player will agree. But he does make some valid points about MMOs of today, whether you agree or not.
I think he summed things up nicely towards the end: "*Let designers design* Designers know what the problems are that face MMOs, and often have an intuition as to how to solve them. These solutions could be far more creative and acceptable than the ones Ive outlined here. Unless designers are allowed to design, MMOs are going to remain stuck in the doldrums.
*Let designers take risks.* They may not be able to prove that something will work, but if theyre not allowed to try it then it never will be proven. Of course, it may not work, but thats a known risk and known risks can be managed. Dont expect that every game will be a hit; just expect that the games that succeed will more than compensate for the ones that fail.
*Allow for revolution.* MMOs evolve, but sometimes evolution isnt enough: revolution is required. The reason that Minecraft was developed independently wasnt because the idea of a voxel-ba sed world hadnt been thought of by designers at big studios, it was because these deigners werent allowed to explore the idea.
These arent the only ways to address these problems there are others. They are presented merely as examples of showing what is possible. It may be that larger studios are too invested in the status quo or too unresponsive to be able to act on them. However, they will be acted on in time, and virtual worlds will be all the better as a result. "
This isn't happening because publishers can not get rid of the WoW-sized dollars.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Aeonblades Cool another Bartle article that thinks he knows best and what every gamer wants. Can't believe people prescribe to this, it's even worse than MMO companies telling you what to like. What a hack.
So you disagree with him. That's fine. Not every MMO player will agree. But he does make some valid points about MMOs of today, whether you agree or not.
I think he summed things up nicely towards the end: "*Let designers design* Designers know what the problems are that face MMOs, and often have an intuition as to how to solve them. These solutions could be far more creative and acceptable than the ones I’ve outlined here. Unless designers are allowed to design, MMOs are going to remain stuck in the doldrums.
*Let designers take risks.* They may not be able to prove that something will work, but if they’re not allowed to try it then it never will be proven. Of course, it may not work, but that’s a known risk and known risks can be managed. Don’t expect that every game will be a hit; just expect that the games that succeed will more than compensate for the ones that fail.
*Allow for revolution.* MMOs evolve, but sometimes evolution isn’t enough: revolution is required. The reason that Minecraft was developed independently wasn’t because the idea of a voxel-ba sed world hadn’t been thought of by designers at big studios, it was because these deigners weren’t allowed to explore the idea.
These aren’t the only ways to address these problems – there are others. They are presented merely as examples of showing what is possible. It may be that larger studios are too invested in the status quo or too unresponsive to be able to act on them. However, they will be acted on in time, and virtual worlds will be all the better as a result. "
This isn't happening because publishers can not get rid of the WoW-sized dollars.
That's a long response with 2 opinions, nothing more. I don't have to agree with anything he said, and really I don't. I feel like plenty of risks are taken and have been taken. I don't believe the part about Minecraft either.
He's telling you how to perceive something and how to think. In my opinion he is even worse than companies forcing you do something you dislike, at least they don't have the negative attitude he has.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by Aeonblades He's telling you how to perceive something and how to think. In my opinion he is even worse than companies forcing you do something you dislike, at least they don't have the negative attitude he has.
That is a cop out and I believe you know that. Anyone who agrees with anything can be thought of as being "told what to think." Just because a person agrees or not does not indicate that they are incapable of thinking on their own.
That I had to explain that to you makes me sad...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Aeonblades He's telling you how to perceive something and how to think. In my opinion he is even worse than companies forcing you do something you dislike, at least they don't have the negative attitude he has.
That is a cop out and I believe you know that. Anyone who agrees with anything can be thought of as being "told what to think." Just because a person agrees or not does not indicate that they are incapable of thinking on their own.
That I had to explain that to you makes me sad...
I don't think you are sad at all. I think you loves the chance to patronize the other guy and pointed out what you think is flawed reasoning on his part.
Originally posted by Aeonblades Cool another Bartle article that thinks he knows best and what every gamer wants. Can't believe people prescribe to this, it's even worse than MMO companies telling you what to like. What a hack.
So you disagree with him. That's fine. Not every MMO player will agree. But he does make some valid points about MMOs of today, whether you agree or not.
I think he summed things up nicely towards the end: "*Let designers design* Designers know what the problems are that face MMOs, and often have an intuition as to how to solve them. These solutions could be far more creative and acceptable than the ones I’ve outlined here. Unless designers are allowed to design, MMOs are going to remain stuck in the doldrums.
*Let designers take risks.* They may not be able to prove that something will work, but if they’re not allowed to try it then it never will be proven. Of course, it may not work, but that’s a known risk and known risks can be managed. Don’t expect that every game will be a hit; just expect that the games that succeed will more than compensate for the ones that fail.
*Allow for revolution.* MMOs evolve, but sometimes evolution isn’t enough: revolution is required. The reason that Minecraft was developed independently wasn’t because the idea of a voxel-ba sed world hadn’t been thought of by designers at big studios, it was because these deigners weren’t allowed to explore the idea.
These aren’t the only ways to address these problems – there are others. They are presented merely as examples of showing what is possible. It may be that larger studios are too invested in the status quo or too unresponsive to be able to act on them. However, they will be acted on in time, and virtual worlds will be all the better as a result. "
This isn't happening because publishers can not get rid of the WoW-sized dollars.
That's a long response with 2 opinions, nothing more. I don't have to agree with anything he said, and really I don't. I feel like plenty of risks are taken and have been taken. I don't believe the part about Minecraft either.
He's telling you how to perceive something and how to think. In my opinion he is even worse than companies forcing you do something you dislike, at least they don't have the negative attitude he has.
I don't think he's telling you what to think. He's pretty much point on as far as the genre goes if you think what's changed with it is bad. But even if you personally want a genre to be a "game," there is a lot left on the table as far as being virtual world and taking advantage of having lots of players on one server.
Originally posted by SwashBuccaneer This article makes me weep for the genre that I used to love so much 10+ years ago.
Don't love genres, love individual games. If it's fun to play, play it. If it's not, don't. People who love genres and can't imagine not playing games within those genres are fanatics and fanaticism is not something to be proud of.
Sorry I love the genre and enjoy the games within it. I love the games of other genres I enjoy though. That's what makes me a mmorpg enthusiast. I monitor, analyze, contemplate, discuss and experience games within this genre. I do not do that with sports games, action games, FPS games, racing games nor dating sims (hmmmmm). And it's the primary reason you can name a half dozen sites dedicated to this genre. But I'm not the type of mmorpg enthusiast insisting on a homogenized genre free from diversity. I'm actually looking for more diversity in the hopes of finding another version of UO one day.
The only way to do that is to expand the genre even further, forcing the emergence of sub genres within it. The MMO umbrella is the first step.
Yet people are constantly complaining that the genre is expanding in directions they don't like because they have a very narrow view of what an MMO is supposed to be. Even here on MMORPG.com, they're complaining that the site is becoming too diverse, talking about MOBAs, etc.
It doesn't matter what category a fun game falls under so long as it's a fun game. If you limit yourself to a certain category, as you seem to, then you're going to miss having a good time in other categories. It's your right to do so, of course, but when you're bored, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Its the same reason you don't go to ESPN looking for world news on where Flight 370 ended up. People come here with an expectation of the news coverage. Trying to sneak in other games and passing them off as MMORPG is annoying. I don't know how many times I've clicked on links on games to find out its not an MMORPG. I don't really care what game they cover at least make sub-categories and not try to click bait with a brand new MMORPG that's really an RTS hero death match game.
Don't click on any links, ever. It's easier that way.
Its the same reason you don't go to ESPN looking for world news on where Flight 370 ended up. People come here with an expectation of the news coverage. Trying to sneak in other games and passing them off as MMORPG is annoying. I don't know how many times I've clicked on links on games to find out its not an MMORPG. I don't really care what game they cover at least make sub-categories and not try to click bait with a brand new MMORPG that's really an RTS hero death match game.
Don't click on any links, ever. It's easier that way.
And are any of those games fun? If so, do you really care about whether it is a MMORPG, according to some random dude's definition, or not?
There is a decline, but it is not clear to me that there is any fix. May be it will go like the point-n-click adventure and the whole industry become smaller. But this is interesting:
and quote ...
"However, most of those players will be spending their time in 4-6 person instances – it’s irrelevant to them how many other players there are in the wider game. There’s no need for an MMO to be able to support 10,000 simultaneous players per shard"
May be the solution is to make other types of online games, and forget about "proper" MMOs. Just call other games MMOs .. it is not like this has never happen before.
There is a real easy fix but the problem is it is not easy to attain.The reason is >>>$$$$$$$
For the most part the big money devs could do 500% better effort on their games but they won't,it is a business out to minimize cost and maximize profits.
Most of the games i see coming out of late are just short of rubbish.I am not schooled enough on TESO but it does at least look good enough,not as good as i like it to be but considering the other developers it is a massively better effort.I swear to god i see a game like WS and i think,are you guys serious you want me to buy that 2 bit looking 1990's game,not a chance in hell !!.When a game looks like it is running on a freeware game engine i am not the least interested.
People can argue all they want over game>graphics but the bottom line is there is nothing stopping a developer from making variable graphics,they just WON'T !.
As soon as i see cheap graphics i say cheap and really have lost immediate interest in that game.At least if the developer starts by giving me effort in graphics i MIGHT assume the rest of the game has the same quality.I guess it is like a car's paint job,you always see expensive paint jobs on the expensive cars.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
If that were the case, then no end actually makes more sense.
I'm tired of all the MMO gloom. I want to read about when MMOs became more than what they were, continuing the vision of their beginning.
Well .. there are no right and wrong. I am fanatical about other things like work or family, but not about mere entertainment. And that is my personal choice. You can be as fanatical about MMOs as you like. In fact, my post is pretty clear that it is about me, and i am not imposing anything on anyone.
And yes, i play plenty of SP and co-op games. I hope you don't have the wrong idea that i mostly play MMOs just because i post here.
And you totally error on why i am here. I am here for the fun of discussions. In fact, if i feels so strongly about MMOs, i would be spending more time playing them, and less talking about them. It is always funny to see people on the internet, who have no idea who you are, pretend to know you better than yourself.
That kind of fun and amusement, is why i am here.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Yet people are constantly complaining that the genre is expanding in directions they don't like because they have a very narrow view of what an MMO is supposed to be. Even here on MMORPG.com, they're complaining that the site is becoming too diverse, talking about MOBAs, etc.
It doesn't matter what category a fun game falls under so long as it's a fun game. If you limit yourself to a certain category, as you seem to, then you're going to miss having a good time in other categories. It's your right to do so, of course, but when you're bored, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Then don't play a game. Go do something else. Find another hobby. There are tons of things to do out there than living in a dream world, hoping that someone makes a good MMO. If they do, come back. Until then, find something worthwhile to do with your life. Fanaticism is *ALWAYS* bad. People need to live well-rounded lives.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
About the time of the article release I would have agreed.
Thankfully we are seeing allot of changes in this industry from both Indie's and AAA gamecompany's so that the article is now pretty outdated.
But never the less thanks for sharing.
I agree with a majority of what he's saying. The thing that I think rings true is that there has been a certain lost of art when it comes to games design. This is all genres of gaming. Talent seems to be spread out. Don't get me wrong I do think the companies always wanted to make money but the developers passion and creative control seem far more restricted then it was in the past. A lot of companies do less with more when compared to the old days.
I think the current application of MMORPG genre is like using gun powder only for fireworks.
They don't even agree on what the genre is.
But at the end of the day, it is their lives, and they can look at (or "love") a genre as much, and in any way they see fit.
If they want to limit themselves, and don't see the new fun things coming, it is their loss.
Agreed, sadly this is the byproduct of an industry "growing up". When money takes over the reigns, creativity takes the back seat.
It's not just games that had/have these issues.
Reaching the mass market by proven methods always wins out against making something innovative but risky.
That's why a strong mid budget & indie segment is so important. That's where designers can shine and good ideas can emerge.
Its the same reason you don't go to ESPN looking for world news on where Flight 370 ended up. People come here with an expectation of the news coverage. Trying to sneak in other games and passing them off as MMORPG is annoying. I don't know how many times I've clicked on links on games to find out its not an MMORPG. I don't really care what game they cover at least make sub-categories and not try to click bait with a brand new MMORPG that's really an RTS hero death match game.
Mixing "old world concepts" with "new age technology" would be awesome to see, I agree.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I think he summed things up nicely towards the end:
"*Let designers design*
Designers know what the problems are that face MMOs, and often have an intuition as to how to solve them. These solutions could be far more creative and acceptable than the ones Ive outlined here. Unless designers are allowed to design, MMOs are going to remain stuck in the doldrums.
*Let designers take risks.*
They may not be able to prove that something will work, but if theyre not allowed to try it then it never will be proven. Of course, it may not work, but thats a known risk and known risks can be managed. Dont expect that every game will be a hit; just expect that the games that succeed will more than compensate for the ones that
fail.
*Allow for revolution.*
MMOs evolve, but sometimes evolution isnt enough: revolution is required. The reason that Minecraft was developed independently wasnt because the idea of a voxel-ba
sed world hadnt been thought of by designers at big studios, it was because these deigners werent allowed to explore the idea.
These arent the only ways to address these problems there are others. They are presented merely as examples of showing what is possible. It may be that larger studios are too invested in the status quo or too unresponsive to be able to act on them. However, they will be acted on in time, and virtual worlds will be all the better as a result. "
This isn't happening because publishers can not get rid of the WoW-sized dollars.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
That's a long response with 2 opinions, nothing more. I don't have to agree with anything he said, and really I don't. I feel like plenty of risks are taken and have been taken. I don't believe the part about Minecraft either.
He's telling you how to perceive something and how to think. In my opinion he is even worse than companies forcing you do something you dislike, at least they don't have the negative attitude he has.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
That I had to explain that to you makes me sad...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I don't think you are sad at all. I think you loves the chance to patronize the other guy and pointed out what you think is flawed reasoning on his part.
I don't think he's telling you what to think. He's pretty much point on as far as the genre goes if you think what's changed with it is bad. But even if you personally want a genre to be a "game," there is a lot left on the table as far as being virtual world and taking advantage of having lots of players on one server.
Much of what he says has been said here.
Don't click on any links, ever. It's easier that way.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
And are any of those games fun? If so, do you really care about whether it is a MMORPG, according to some random dude's definition, or not?
There is a real easy fix but the problem is it is not easy to attain.The reason is >>>$$$$$$$
For the most part the big money devs could do 500% better effort on their games but they won't,it is a business out to minimize cost and maximize profits.
Most of the games i see coming out of late are just short of rubbish.I am not schooled enough on TESO but it does at least look good enough,not as good as i like it to be but considering the other developers it is a massively better effort.I swear to god i see a game like WS and i think,are you guys serious you want me to buy that 2 bit looking 1990's game,not a chance in hell !!.When a game looks like it is running on a freeware game engine i am not the least interested.
People can argue all they want over game>graphics but the bottom line is there is nothing stopping a developer from making variable graphics,they just WON'T !.
As soon as i see cheap graphics i say cheap and really have lost immediate interest in that game.At least if the developer starts by giving me effort in graphics i MIGHT assume the rest of the game has the same quality.I guess it is like a car's paint job,you always see expensive paint jobs on the expensive cars.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Great Read, sad how the industry has trended this way.
Not helped by the fact that so many gamers are looking for there next 5 second fix.
What .... you think i need to wait for my entertainment?