Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: The Longevity of PvP in ESO
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
We’ve all played them, MMORPGs with leveling caps, WoW, SWTOR, DAoC, GW2, I can go on for a while listing them but you get my drift. How much play time was during the leveling experience? Very little, right? Most of your time playing was at “end game” or level cap. This week I want to take a step back from all the hype of the Elder Scrolls Online launch and talk about something that might be over looked, the longevity of PvP in ESO.
Read more of Ryan Getchell's Elder Scrolls Online: The Longevity of PvP in ESO.
)
Comments
I actually hope they leave out the themepark ranking system that turned PvP into a carrot on a stick system. The only reason people should need to PvP is that its fun, not because its another grind for skills or items.
Also, DoaC did not invent large scale PvP, Ultima Online had server crash inducing levels of PvP as did Asherons Call. in fact the guild I was in, Swift, In Asherons Call got almost 350 of its members to create new characters on Bloodtide and noob rush everyone. it was an annual event for us on Sundays. All DaoC did was add grind to PvP, and no I am not saying PvP in the game wasn't fun, that was due to the combat system, not adding themepark to PvP.
Now that you meantion RR, i actually don't know what a faction gets for winning the war. If it's just a bunch of pve buffs, than that sucks imo. I guess they could open up the Imperial city, but i think they could give out some special cosmetic rewards like armors and mounts. This was one of my issue in GW2. When a server won, i didn't really notice much difference.
To add something to the columm, i also feel the rvr just lacks much for groups to do besides storm the keeps. To question the longevity, i feel it's because it'll turn into keep zerg rushing like always which will lose it's appeal eventually. BTW, a agree with your points about AP's. The worse part is makignt hem the currency for siege weaponry.
Your article is way off base IMO.
You take a standpoint from the perspective that Cyrodiil is a "PvP for the sake of PvP" type of place. And you're completely wrong in that.
Cyrodiil has 16 dungeons, questing areas all over the map, skyshards to find, and PvP to be had. The PvP in this game is the most fun I've had since Darkfall Online was shut down...and my "honeymoon phase" has lasted for months at this point.
You also completely neglect to mention build design as being a major aspect of the game. My clan has been sitting in mumble for like 2 months now designing builds for PvP. The idea of "build designing" is an entirely different level of fun that is relevant in both PvP and PvE.
Lastly, ZOS has already stated they have huge plans for Cyrodiil that aren't announced yet. One of those articles is even on the same website that you work for.
I would think that someone that gets paid to write game reviews as a profession would actually do some research on the game they are reviewing.
I've said for awhile now ESO could use 5 more skills per class and weapon line, sooner than later.
I can see 3-4 months of character development with hardcore Cyrodiil play as things stand, straight out the box.
I think that's a pretty good cushion to get things started. We'll see what the future holds
It doesn't need a progression/leveling system to be fun. If the combat is fun and the incentives are there to keep playing, then it will work.
My personal issue with Cyrodiil is the lack of visual feedback and rewards for direct actions; Objective claims, player kills, etc. You get a mail send to you every so often with a single piece of gear, but that seems to be the only reward other than alliance points (which, again, lack visual feedback, I can't tell when I'm earning them).
What is it with all these sick articles? It's as if every moderator have to squeeze every inch of fat out of this game, and then make sure it is turned in a negative way. I understand we have to show critique, but please, this is just to make another article fill out space.
You do.
Yes, some other use for the tons of alliance points you get would be nice. And a Daoc-like progression system would be the icing on top.
But the biggest issue for me is still the akward melee combat, especially in pvp with the shitton of (single target) CC, combined with just 5+1 (x2 if you swap) skills.
I have to disagree, wholeheartedly. I think there is a better opportunity for longevity in AvA in ESO than you are realizing.
If I remember that far back correctly, the RR system was a shadow of what it became by the time Shourded Isles came out. It took a long time to develop the system.
As others have pointed out, you do get points for increasing your Realm Rank. So there IS a point to be earn through PvP, though I'm not sure how high the ranks go, and how many points it takes to get there. So the claim that there is no PvP progression, the basis of your argument, is false.. It's there, just without the "RR abilities Only" caveat. People can PvP for crafting points, or invest them into the PvP skill lines (Assult, Emperor, etc.), and I think that utility makes it a slightly better system, and encourages even crafters to get into PvP more than they necessarily needed to in DAoC. Heck, they've even said that crafters will play a bigger role in AvA in the future, implying they have much bigger plans.
Also, they do have plans to create a Darnkness Falls like dugeon, as was discussed in another interview. It just won't be there at relase, much like DF was not at relase when DAoC started. I imagine it will be the Impreial City.
As a final note, there is already a LOT of PvE content in Cyrodil right now, in beta. They can add to it, like the Imperial City. But there are already quests, dark anchors, and dungeons to be found in the game right now.
So, while I understand the premise and your concern, I just.. Think you're wrong. To each their own.
Once you add a carrot, everyone wants it. Once everyone wants it, there is a rush to get it.
This is really the problem of contemporary MMOs and end game/level caps - what ever the guise, it is all the same problem. Why is it everyone talks about EQ/EQ2, WoW, DAoC, LoTRO (at least me) with reverance while we do know they had shortcomings; shortcomings we all want the new MMOs to overcome.
Reason is simple - because they had so much content, so many things to do - even with end games, they still have enough content to keep players busy in one fashion or another. Even when we find ourselves wanting not to play those games any more, we can't help but find something about them entertaining.
Contemporary MMOs do not have the luxury of the content older generations of MMOs have, so I ask why is it they streamline the game up until end-game. The pattern is obvious, contemporary MMOs emphasize end game, de-emphasize the leveling path and provide shallow and meaningless carrots for getting to end game.
It is like we are all playing Dance Dance Revolution down at the arcade only to have something as simple as our names in the top ten list. Most of us really don't like the game and many should not be seen in public gyrating like that, but since the "community" is doing it, we must as well. Yet, its all so cheap that I feel so used and dirty at the end of it and question why? WHY?!?
Look at Guild Wars 2. I like GW2 for a lot of reasons, but lately the living story seems more about learning the right dance moves to earn those achievements. I swear, if you play old John Travolta movies in the back ground and follow his dance moves in game, you will earn achievements.
Honestly, one or two games like that is fine, but it just seems thats the template for contemporary MMOs. I just hope ESO does not fall completely into this trap.
No carrot, no OWPvP, no dueling, there's not much longevity to be had.
Say what you will about carrots ruining PvP or about OWPvP being for griefers and I honestly have no idea who can complain about dueling being in the game but those three forms of PvP are eternal, if theres a carrot people will always chase it, people will always OWPvP and people will always duel.
ESO has none of those thus i'm not buying the game because Cyrodiil will get old fast.
I find it surprising that someone would write an article about DAOC Realm Ranks and the ability purchases based on attaining those RRs being a key contributor to retention, while at the same time ignoring the vastly superior and endless Skill Point system this game has... not to mention that we already know of their plans to increase the available skill lines--Dark Brotherhood and Thieve's Guild being just the first 2 of many.
There is much more potential here for creating an endless progression system much more compelling than DAoC ever had with the added kicker that those SPs are not totally dependent on PVP as was the case in DAoC.
You got to think it through before jumping to conclusions.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It is rly nice to see someone who loves the game gives a rational response to a negative review. If only eso has more players with a thought process like you it can only move forward. And it's a good thing.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
These are a lot of good points and I also wanted to add one more. Goals in PvP are certainly important, but not endless progression. People get tired of endless progression - it's why we all got so excited for GW2. What we all learned from that is progression is fun in limited spurts.
So a few examples - games with PvP Seasons are fun because you can earn a high rank and feel like you accomplished something and are "finished". You can rest for a bit and actually enjoy what you worked so hard for. Right when you're starting to get bored it starts up again. Or games like TERA or Aion where you spend a lot of time earning powerful endgame gear sets. In those games, you can wear the same set for months if not a full year before you need to start grinding again, making all your effort truly enjoyable.
If ESO had endless progression I don't know how much time I'd spend in the game. The point of progression is to earn something and be able to stop for a while and enjoy what you worked for, before you need or even want to start working again. It's the same reason people take vacations in real life - work isn't worth anything if you can't reap the rewards.