The author of this text is a long term beta tester (if I remember correct 9+ months) and did level up several characters to LVL 50 already. He was aswell a moderator at the tamrielfoundry forums.
Wow, I completely missed this, and tbh I'm kinda glad i did.
I find the whole article puzzling. Not because he doesn't have some valid points, but rather his points seem to greatly contradict his actions. Furthermore he seems to primarily be focused on the API changes. I'm not surprised this caused someone to quit the game. I completely expected at least one of the modders to do this. They put a lot of work into their mods, only to have some of the major projects retracted due to community feedback. However I can understand some of his points (even if I don't agree with all of them).
Payment Model/ Free-to-Play Fears. This is the one point he makes that I completely 100% understand. It is perhaps the most valid point he makes, in my opinion. I too have doubts about how the game will stay subscription-based. If it goes free-to-play at some point, how will it handle the transition? I also have concerns over the bugs in the game (though I understand that with the last beta, those were primarily due to server problems, instead of actual coding problems). So close to launch, even if they are largely handled, it is indeed going to scare a lot of players away.
Questing. I completely get this. The game is indeed very quest-based. It won't be for everyone. However, what's puzzling is that the Elder Scrolls series have ALWAYS been quest based. No matter how sandbox you want to convince yourself ES games are (primarily because they are moddable), they all were based around quests. I have a very hard time understanding how an ES fan can overlook this fact. And even test a new game in the series for 9+ months without realizing it.
API. This is the bulk of the article, and while I understand the frustration from a modder's perspective, the justifications puzzle me. He shares his concerns with turning the game's UI into some like WoW has. And he applauds the game's minimal UI, and states it's one of the strengths of the game. Then he does a 180 and explains that he is leaving the game because of it? To my knowledge the changes to the API are preventing people from creating mods like we saw in WoW. They are in direct response to community feedback that there was too much info available. Feedback which I, myself was also a part of, and with which I still agree with. As did (supposedly) the author of the article.
TLDR; In short, I don't understand how an ES fan, one with 9+ months of beta experience, can suddenly do a 180 on his stance on a game, primarily because they removed part of his API ability. Especially after stating that agreed with the change (albeit somewhat indirectly). He then ends his article talking about sandbox games (which is fine, I also enjoy a good sandbox, but ES games have never been sandboxes. They've just had mod capabilities). And he ends with a picture of EQL/EQN. Which, again look like they could be really good games. However they are 100% built around a cash-shop model. Which was one of his fears for TESO.
Considering how well the article was written, I'm puzzled to see how someone smart enough to write it, can also be so blind as to the glaring contradictions of his own words.
The author of this text is a long term beta tester (if I remember correct 9+ months) and did level up several characters to LVL 50 already. He was aswell a moderator at the tamrielfoundry forums.
Wow, I completely missed this, and tbh I'm kinda glad i did.
I find the whole article puzzling. Not because he doesn't have some valid points, but rather his points seem to greatly contradict his actions. Furthermore he seems to primarily be focused on the API changes. I'm not surprised this caused someone to quit the game. I completely expected at least one of the modders to do this. They put a lot of work into their mods, only to have some of the major projects retracted due to community feedback. However I can understand some of his points (even if I don't agree with all of them).
Payment Model/ Free-to-Play Fears. This is the one point he makes that I completely 100% understand. It is perhaps the most valid point he makes, in my opinion. I too have doubts about how the game will stay subscription-based. If it goes free-to-play at some point, how will it handle the transition? I also have concerns over the bugs in the game (though I understand that with the last beta, those were primarily due to server problems, instead of actual coding problems). So close to launch, even if they are largely handled, it is indeed going to scare a lot of players away.
Questing. I completely get this. The game is indeed very quest-based. It won't be for everyone. However, what's puzzling is that the Elder Scrolls series have ALWAYS been quest based. No matter how sandbox you want to convince yourself ES games are (primarily because they are moddable), they all were based around quests. I have a very hard time understanding how an ES fan can overlook this fact. And even test a new game in the series for 9+ months without realizing it.
API. This is the bulk of the article, and while I understand the frustration from a modder's perspective, the justifications puzzle me. He shares his concerns with turning the game's UI into some like WoW has. And he applauds the game's minimal UI, and states it's one of the strengths of the game. Then he does a 180 and explains that he is leaving the game because of it? To my knowledge the changes to the API are preventing people from creating mods like we saw in WoW. They are in direct response to community feedback that there was too much info available. Feedback which I, myself was also a part of, and with which I still agree with. As did (supposedly) the author of the article.
TLDR; In short, I don't understand how an ES fan, one with 9+ months of beta experience, can suddenly do a 180 on his stance on a game, primarily because they removed part of his API ability. Especially after stating that agreed with the change (albeit somewhat indirectly). He then ends his article talking about sandbox games (which is fine, I also enjoy a good sandbox, but ES games have never been sandboxes. They've just had mod capabilities). And he ends with a picture of EQL/EQN. Which, again look like they could be really good games. However they are 100% built around a cash-shop model. Which was one of his fears for TESO.
Considering how well the article was written, I'm puzzled to see how someone smart enough to write it, can also be so blind as to the glaring contradictions of his own words.
Hey I have an idea let's have everyone who decides not to play ESO leave a detailed goodbye and essay on why they aren't staying, then talk about every single case here on MMORPG.com in depth
The author of this text is a long term beta tester (if I remember correct 9+ months) and did level up several characters to LVL 50 already. He was aswell a moderator at the tamrielfoundry forums.
WARHAMMER part Deux will do fine. It will have at lease one viable archetype, guy with staff pew-pewing all those foolish enough to try anything else. It will make tons of money, of that I have no doubt, just not my money or the guy who wrote the essay.
It would be useful to have a "break-down of playing time" per area of the game from the author? Still interesting and good read.
These games are only temporary though, and while I play them, I will set my eyes firmly on the sandbox MMOs of the future - ArcheAge, Everquest: Next, The Repopulation, and CCP’s hopefully not vaporware World of Darkness MMO – maybe even Star Citizen. Will one of these be my next big MMO home? I hope we can find out together, on The Errant Penman.
EQN if you like terra-forming.
Star Citizen seems like the gameplay will be awesome-awesome if you like space-flight / sci-fi.
The Repopulation could be a fun indie title too
I'd add Pathfinder Online to the list as it's taking the short road to release but the long-road to mmorpg "playing time".
What it seems people here missed, and what is fairly amusing for me, is that he did not post that on this website but his own site. So his message (as he states) is for those who knew him and those who followed him. He did not mouth off to try bring the game down as so many here seem to think he did. He gave his reasoning for leaving targeted at those who wanted to know. How is that attention seeking?
If you disagree then fine, you don't care what he thinks right? If that is the case then get off your high horse, the one you infer he has, and take it for what it is. His opinion and that only. People really need to learn to appreciate/respect others points of view.
The saddest indictment of the state of MMO's is that most people here feel that 9 months is a long time to play an MMO. For me an MMO should be something that keeps you going for years not just months.
What it seems people here missed, and what is fairly amusing for me, is that he did not post that on this website but his own site. So his message (as he states) is for those who knew him and those who followed him. He did not mouth off to try bring the game down as so many here seem to think he did. He gave his reasoning for leaving targeted at those who wanted to know. How is that attention seeking?
If you disagree then fine, you don't care what he thinks right? If that is the case then get off your high horse, the one you infer he has, and take it for what it is. His opinion and that only. People really need to learn to appreciate/respect others points of view.
The saddest indictment of the state of MMO's is that most people here feel that 9 months is a long time to play an MMO. For me an MMO should be something that keeps you going for years not just months.
I have to agree with this post. The person who wrote that intended it for HIS audience not this one.
Originally posted by Chuffed1 What it seems people here missed, and what is fairly amusing for me, is that he did not post that on this website but his own site. So his message (as he states) is for those who knew him and those who followed him. He did not mouth off to try bring the game down as so many here seem to think he did. He gave his reasoning for leaving targeted at those who wanted to know. How is that attention seeking?If you disagree then fine, you don't care what he thinks right? If that is the case then get off your high horse, the one you infer he has, and take it for what it is. His opinion and that only. People really need to learn to appreciate/respect others points of view.The saddest indictment of the state of MMO's is that most people here feel that 9 months is a long time to play an MMO. For me an MMO should be something that keeps you going for years not just months.
mmo's just don't last years anymore, none of them do. 9 months would indeed be a long time to play an mmo today.
since the day this mmo was announced, i didn't expect to play it longer than a few months at a time.
if i can get 6 solid months out of it my money will be well spent.
Just as he says farewell, I also said farewell to EQ Next Landmark which is what he is going to, and I asked for my money back for the founders pack, and they gave it no questions asked like they said. I wish him luck but if he thinks landmark is better then ESO.... Hes in for a shameful return to ESO, he leaving ESO for something that's x 10 more microtransaction and worse of a money grab then what he hated about ESO.
Its a case of "grass is greener on the other side". Mark My Words... He will be back.
1) A lousy exterminator. Bugs...
Its a beta and yes, major bugs are being fixed behind the scene. I think Master Dev Nick Konkle said it best sums it up about people like this in his interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80mHQNA45js 1:24:10
2) Lazy-eyed vision
Dont you realize that the MMO aspects that were sacrificed to make it more TES is why a majority of players want to play it, Its single player base for skyrim was 20 million, this is just part of the evolution I was talking about to make ESO marketable to its massive single player base, which is a 20 million player market, why would you hate that? you should be happy that a game would be true to its player base of the IP it carries. You want an MMO rather then a ES game, we get it.
As far as Addons go, how could you hate the fact that they pulled API aspects of the UI that allowed for players to literally cheat in effect. did you make one of those cheat programs yourself, and now your mad about your wasted time making them?
3) Mo Money Mo problems. "Unfortunately, we now also have paywalls and micro-transactions."
Seriously, you hate microtransactions, and all that they have so far is a HORSE? Good lord, your going to EQ Next Landmark, where everything is a microtransaction, including resources that you gather in the world. Where is your prespective about whats acceptable and not when you go to a game based soley on microtransactions.
4) Con-fidence
So your answer to the game you predict is going to go free to play, is to then say your are going to set your eye on a game that IS Free to play with heavy microtransactions??!! LMAO
What has happened to you? A) You overthought yourself to leave Your burned out from beta C) You'll be back. D) Its a train wreck... dont look back.
do they have to convince and explain it to everyone?
what's wrong with those kids? why do they think we give a shit?
"i will stop playing and i will tell you in less than 2k words why!", yeaaa, whatever.
Ridiculous.
The reason why anyone would use a forum like this is to voice an opinion, be it positive or negative.
when someone likes a game, he/she expresses his/her excitement. Likewise, when he/she dislike the game, he/she expresses disppointment/concern. What's wrong with this???
In this case he has not even voiced his opinion on a forum, but his own blog. When he wrote good stuffs about the game and shared all useful info, why did not you (plural) tell him to keep them to himself?
Re: ESO
Shouldnt it raised some eyebrows when one of our biggest fans (I use our because I think he was one of the biggest fans. And I am a fan. I want eso to succeed) left the game the way he did? For me yes. And I think it can be changed by stop spreading our legs wide and stop getting screwed over at every opportunities.
Geeze, if I can get 9 months out of the game, that'll be alot longer than average!
Lasting 9 months in long term testing is quite different than release. Each new patch bring new stuff and change things around, so it sort of "refresh" the experience.
Been in the beta for 8 months and I'm counting down the days till early-access. If there's going to be a few angry nerds unwilling to play the game then that makes it what a "typical" mmo launch no?
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Very well written opinion-piece of where the game is headed. This fellow also wrote the comprehensive review of ESO on the Tamriel Foundry site. With that in mind, what happened in the last 30 days?
Sounds like he is a little butt-hurt that the game isn't making the changes he would like to see (ui mods and the cash only availability of the Imperial Race, with the underlying dislike of the rate of bug-squashing).
I can't see somebody spending the amount of time in a beta to reach max level and max advanced level w/o enjoying the game or write a pretty positive review (within the past 30 days) about the game for, perhaps, the most popular ESO site online today. I know I wouldn't be sticking around for a year doing something I was loathe to continue.
Very well written opinion-piece of where the game is headed. This fellow also wrote the comprehensive review of ESO on the Tamriel Foundry site. With that in mind, what happened in the last 30 days?
Sounds like he is a little butt-hurt that the game isn't making the changes he would like to see (ui mods and the cash only availability of the Imperial Race, with the underlying dislike of the rate of bug-squashing).
I can't see somebody spending the amount of time in a beta to reach max level and max advanced level w/o enjoying the game or write a pretty positive review (within the past 30 days) about the game for, perhaps, the most popular ESO site online today. I know I wouldn't be sticking around for a year doing something I was loathe to continue.
Good luck to him!
No I am sure he was giving the game a chance to figure it out and see if there would actually be fixes before the game was about to launch. Like everyone here also hopes.
The problem is they continued to make very questionable decisions which on their own might not mean much but taken as a whole show a clear pattern. One that everyone here will eventually see once the game goes live and is forced to be open 24/7 Or at least 23/7.
Also people make a lot of assumptions. He tested for 9 months, no where does he state he was playing 9 months or non stop. I started testing 9 months ago as well. But it surely wasnt non stop and it surely wasnt close to what playing an MMO is going to belike. Yu have builds and rebuilds and wipes. they wiped every test prior to the ones starting in January. so you werent playing or progressing a character like you will once the game goes live. People automatially asume he played 8 hours a day for 275 days or whatever. Not the case I will bet you.
Another thing that is hysterical, this guys was the Fanbois Messiah. People worshiped this guy just about when he was positive. Now that he has some critical opinions and points of view they want to crucify the guy. Funny how that works I guess.
But it will allbe the same eventually in due time. Everyone in this thread,and the guy with his 87 guild mates will turn on the game, more than likely when it goes full cash shop. Then the author of that blog will be seen as a Nostrdamus. Time generally proves this stuff all out and short term changes are meaningless. But in the ADD society people lose sight of that. Everyone looking t get in as fast as they can and be the first t do soemthing. When in a couple months they wont have naything ot do and wont be playing more thanlikely.
Originally posted by JHenry I would like to address his points
lousy exterminator: every change will lead to bugs. It is very normal. That's why changes are released first to PTS before going live. Probably, before releasing it to PTS, it will be tested internally.
Lazy-eyed vision: While I agree with the lack of feed back the future will bring, it is again can be changed if the PTS or internal testing dealt with the balance and end-users using the patched up UI. Having a separate code for each of the servers (live and testing) could help with this transition. I believe the patch did not destroy the UI entirely, but it makes it open for improvement.
Mo’ money mo’ problems:Paywall = locking content. Imperial race IMO, is not locking content. Paywall= locking adventure zones.
Con-fidence: same rant as the money problem. A speculation to F2P. WoW have also done mount services in the past. No surprise.
100% fully agree there. I honestly think if the beloved API changes had not come we would not have seen that blog post. The rest of the issue are very minor. I also think that when you play 95% of the game and have reach VR10 on PTS then you also lose a lot of incentive to play - because you have already done it all.
Like others have said he sounds like he simply got burned out. I mean he played for 9 months and that tells me there will be plenty to do!
Comments
Wow, I completely missed this, and tbh I'm kinda glad i did.
I find the whole article puzzling. Not because he doesn't have some valid points, but rather his points seem to greatly contradict his actions. Furthermore he seems to primarily be focused on the API changes. I'm not surprised this caused someone to quit the game. I completely expected at least one of the modders to do this. They put a lot of work into their mods, only to have some of the major projects retracted due to community feedback. However I can understand some of his points (even if I don't agree with all of them).
Payment Model/ Free-to-Play Fears. This is the one point he makes that I completely 100% understand. It is perhaps the most valid point he makes, in my opinion. I too have doubts about how the game will stay subscription-based. If it goes free-to-play at some point, how will it handle the transition? I also have concerns over the bugs in the game (though I understand that with the last beta, those were primarily due to server problems, instead of actual coding problems). So close to launch, even if they are largely handled, it is indeed going to scare a lot of players away.
Questing. I completely get this. The game is indeed very quest-based. It won't be for everyone. However, what's puzzling is that the Elder Scrolls series have ALWAYS been quest based. No matter how sandbox you want to convince yourself ES games are (primarily because they are moddable), they all were based around quests. I have a very hard time understanding how an ES fan can overlook this fact. And even test a new game in the series for 9+ months without realizing it.
API. This is the bulk of the article, and while I understand the frustration from a modder's perspective, the justifications puzzle me. He shares his concerns with turning the game's UI into some like WoW has. And he applauds the game's minimal UI, and states it's one of the strengths of the game. Then he does a 180 and explains that he is leaving the game because of it? To my knowledge the changes to the API are preventing people from creating mods like we saw in WoW. They are in direct response to community feedback that there was too much info available. Feedback which I, myself was also a part of, and with which I still agree with. As did (supposedly) the author of the article.
TLDR; In short, I don't understand how an ES fan, one with 9+ months of beta experience, can suddenly do a 180 on his stance on a game, primarily because they removed part of his API ability. Especially after stating that agreed with the change (albeit somewhat indirectly). He then ends his article talking about sandbox games (which is fine, I also enjoy a good sandbox, but ES games have never been sandboxes. They've just had mod capabilities). And he ends with a picture of EQL/EQN. Which, again look like they could be really good games. However they are 100% built around a cash-shop model. Which was one of his fears for TESO.
Considering how well the article was written, I'm puzzled to see how someone smart enough to write it, can also be so blind as to the glaring contradictions of his own words.
I m not mentioning only API, but many more core features.
Can i also pay them in time? Why do they want me to pay box+sub NOW, when there is no reason (as you said) for them to deliver all features NOW?
Uh no I never said "all features" the only thing I mentioned was API.
In fact even the article didnt mention half the things you did.
So he is leaving after 9 months now the game has to be paid for to play?
Nothing to see here /shrug.
It would be useful to have a "break-down of playing time" per area of the game from the author? Still interesting and good read.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
"blablabla"
seriously, can't those people just stop playing?
do they have to convince and explain it to everyone?
what's wrong with those kids? why do they think we give a shit?
"i will stop playing and i will tell you in less than 2k words why!", yeaaa, whatever.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Guy just burnt out.
Buh-bye.
It's funny how every fanboi is bashing him without even reading the first paragraph...
He clearly states why he's writing the blog and I'm not going to bother write it for you, go read, don't be lazy.
What it seems people here missed, and what is fairly amusing for me, is that he did not post that on this website but his own site. So his message (as he states) is for those who knew him and those who followed him. He did not mouth off to try bring the game down as so many here seem to think he did. He gave his reasoning for leaving targeted at those who wanted to know. How is that attention seeking?
If you disagree then fine, you don't care what he thinks right? If that is the case then get off your high horse, the one you infer he has, and take it for what it is. His opinion and that only. People really need to learn to appreciate/respect others points of view.
The saddest indictment of the state of MMO's is that most people here feel that 9 months is a long time to play an MMO. For me an MMO should be something that keeps you going for years not just months.
Geeze, if I can get 9 months out of the game, that'll be alot longer than average!
The only games ive lasted that long were Anarchy Online and WoW.
I have to agree with this post. The person who wrote that intended it for HIS audience not this one.
there, i fixed it for you.
if you don't see the difference, i feel sorry for ya.
ps: if you dont get it, here is a small hint, i used less than 2k words on a topic no one gives a shit about.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
mmo's just don't last years anymore, none of them do. 9 months would indeed be a long time to play an mmo today.
since the day this mmo was announced, i didn't expect to play it longer than a few months at a time.
if i can get 6 solid months out of it my money will be well spent.
+1 - completely took my words
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Ridiculous.
The reason why anyone would use a forum like this is to voice an opinion, be it positive or negative.
when someone likes a game, he/she expresses his/her excitement. Likewise, when he/she dislike the game, he/she expresses disppointment/concern. What's wrong with this???
In this case he has not even voiced his opinion on a forum, but his own blog. When he wrote good stuffs about the game and shared all useful info, why did not you (plural) tell him to keep them to himself?
Re: ESO
Shouldnt it raised some eyebrows when one of our biggest fans (I use our because I think he was one of the biggest fans. And I am a fan. I want eso to succeed) left the game the way he did? For me yes. And I think it can be changed by stop spreading our legs wide and stop getting screwed over at every opportunities.
Lasting 9 months in long term testing is quite different than release. Each new patch bring new stuff and change things around, so it sort of "refresh" the experience.
Been in the beta for 8 months and I'm counting down the days till early-access. If there's going to be a few angry nerds unwilling to play the game then that makes it what a "typical" mmo launch no?
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Very well written opinion-piece of where the game is headed. This fellow also wrote the comprehensive review of ESO on the Tamriel Foundry site. With that in mind, what happened in the last 30 days?
Sounds like he is a little butt-hurt that the game isn't making the changes he would like to see (ui mods and the cash only availability of the Imperial Race, with the underlying dislike of the rate of bug-squashing).
I can't see somebody spending the amount of time in a beta to reach max level and max advanced level w/o enjoying the game or write a pretty positive review (within the past 30 days) about the game for, perhaps, the most popular ESO site online today. I know I wouldn't be sticking around for a year doing something I was loathe to continue.
Good luck to him!
No I am sure he was giving the game a chance to figure it out and see if there would actually be fixes before the game was about to launch. Like everyone here also hopes.
The problem is they continued to make very questionable decisions which on their own might not mean much but taken as a whole show a clear pattern. One that everyone here will eventually see once the game goes live and is forced to be open 24/7 Or at least 23/7.
Also people make a lot of assumptions. He tested for 9 months, no where does he state he was playing 9 months or non stop. I started testing 9 months ago as well. But it surely wasnt non stop and it surely wasnt close to what playing an MMO is going to belike. Yu have builds and rebuilds and wipes. they wiped every test prior to the ones starting in January. so you werent playing or progressing a character like you will once the game goes live. People automatially asume he played 8 hours a day for 275 days or whatever. Not the case I will bet you.
Another thing that is hysterical, this guys was the Fanbois Messiah. People worshiped this guy just about when he was positive. Now that he has some critical opinions and points of view they want to crucify the guy. Funny how that works I guess.
But it will allbe the same eventually in due time. Everyone in this thread,and the guy with his 87 guild mates will turn on the game, more than likely when it goes full cash shop. Then the author of that blog will be seen as a Nostrdamus. Time generally proves this stuff all out and short term changes are meaningless. But in the ADD society people lose sight of that. Everyone looking t get in as fast as they can and be the first t do soemthing. When in a couple months they wont have naything ot do and wont be playing more thanlikely.
100% fully agree there. I honestly think if the beloved API changes had not come we would not have seen that blog post. The rest of the issue are very minor. I also think that when you play 95% of the game and have reach VR10 on PTS then you also lose a lot of incentive to play - because you have already done it all.
Like others have said he sounds like he simply got burned out. I mean he played for 9 months and that tells me there will be plenty to do!