Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Can we stop claiming 12 million WoW subs can't be wrong?
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I know. I wasn't commenting on the quality of the game, I was asking where people think we'd be now if it weren't for at least one big, profitable title raising awareness for the genre, whether it was WoW or not? For all we know, it could be completely dead at this point. There's always the chance that it would have grown in some other way, but we'll never know for sure. I don't mind the direction MMO's have headed, personally.
What Kyleran meant was "Blizzard destroyed what I wanted MMO's to be". Kind of a 1-dimensional view of the way things went, but maybe (hopefully) he/she wasn't serious.
Like Lizard said it has already been explained by Blizz many times. Chinese players infact pay lot more and play lot more hours than an average western player who is paying 15 bucks a month.
If anything western players are irrelevant in bigger picture. I suggest its time to let go and accept the numbers for what they are unless you got data to prove Blizzard wrong.
Yeah we definitely can't know for sure. I'm pretty sure I would prefer the MMO market sans WoW because I don't particularly care about the things that have come about because of the expansion of the genre. I still play UO for goodness sake. I care way more about the systems in the game than I do about what the game looks like.
Example 1: You design and build a product. You seek investment. Your market research shows you will hit sales of around 3 million.
Example 2: You design and build a product. You seek investment. Your market research shows you will hit sales of around 200,000.
Which product is more likely to attract investment?
You can argue this way and that way all you like, but in simple commercial terms, the answer is clear.
I agree. Unless you got your own money to burn.
It is always easy to play gamble when your own money isn't on line.
WoW having so many subs now is actually more impressive than what it had back in the day.
You can now play games with graphics almost 10 years more advanced than WoW's for free and yet WoW is not just staying afloat it's mercilessly crushing it's competition.
I think a bigger issue is why Blizzard or anyone would constantly talk about numbers BEFORE the game.
That is something that has baffled me for a long time and Blizzard is the worst.
If a developer cannot find MASSIVE amounts of good stuff to talk about their own game and have to always point at numbers,that says a lot about the developer and the game.
Geesh i could write a 100 page book on the good stuff i enjoyed in my favorite games and not once would i ever need to point at numbers.
IMO it is a sign of VERY poor marketing like less than high school skills,i mean seriously they could come up with a better gimmick than "Let's play Wow ,we have 12 million subs".
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Can a billion Wal-Mart shoppers be wrong?
Yes, they most certainly can.
Given that sans WoW the Eastern mmo market would be just as strong but the Western one would be much smaller I'm going to guess that far less would be spent on developing Western mmos leaving the NA market to be dominated by bigger budget Eastern tittles like L2 and FFXI.
Game is 8 years old and at this point almost everyone knows what the game offers. There comes a point in life of MMO when there is nothing left to say about how good the game is. It speaks for itself.
And why not flaunt the numbers? you think if there was another MMO company holding 8 million players right now they won't brag about it?
You are not running a multi billion company though so who cares what you write in 100 pages?
Then how many people does it take to be right?
I would say, in this case "1" but your mileage may vary.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Why wouldn't the NA mmo market just stay niche, like it was pre-wow? And how do we know the asian mmo market would be what it is without WoW?
Both are subjective.
Well, since nobody has apparently brought any valid argument as to why X millions WoW sub can be wrong in this debate so far, we will have to assume that these X millions WoW players are right to enjoy playing their game and paying their monthly fee to Blizzard.
Actually as announced by Blizz the current sub number is around 7.8
OP just decided to run away with post of one guy who claimed it was 12 million and thus this topic.
I don't think that's the question. I'm not even sure that IS a question. It's not whether or not somebody is "right to enjoy a game." It seems to me that the question is "does a large playerbase mean that the game is good?" And if that is the question, the burden of proof is on the people who would vote in the affirmative.
How does it take this many pages of replies to come to the conclusion that the MMO genre has many subgenres and niches, and the majority will decide where most of the money goes, and therefore what most of the games become.
Yes, it sucks to be in the minority (not being a fan of what is the most popular), because the games you want are not being developed as frequently, as professionally, or becoming as popular with everyone.
You will have anywhere from two, to like, ten small to medium sized games (as compared to the size of the leader in the industry) that really stand out, and feel like home to you over the years, as the industry focus shifts around what is the most popular.
This definitely sucks for those looking for something new to fill that void.
However, be careful what you're hoping for, because;
1. When trying to get a large population to take interest in something that is different, you will have to gradually make the change. Give them something they're used to, and something they're not used to, little by little. This is why no one seems to take a chance when it comes to MMOs, and (in my opinion) why the people that try to do something different tend to 'flop'. This means you will be waiting a LONG time for the industry to finally rotate around to your subgenre/niche, unless of course you like where the industry is heading currently, but if that were the case, you wouldn't really be complaining now would you?
2. When the industry DOES turn to your favorite subgenre/niche, it will almost certainly not be the same as what you liked. As new people take interest in the features/designs that you like, they also bring with them the suggestions that they have, and the developers will hopefully listen to their customers.
To me, this entire situation is about waiting for your perfect game, and being upset that what's popular now is prolonging it's arrival.
While I'm not going to say that your perfect game will never come, I will say that you should be happy that there was once a game that you really enjoyed, that the market is filled with tons of games, at least some that are fun for even just a little while, and leave your comfort zone every once in a while, you may just find something new that you enjoy.
Because many of the most successful Korean games predate WoW. That's like saying: how would we know Everquest 1 would be successful without WoW? Lineage 1 and 2 predate WoW and are still making a killing in the Korean market. (both significantly ahead of WoW in that market iirc.) There is nothing to suggest that NCsoft would be any less successful in the Korean market if WoW hadn't existed.
The NA mmo market was bound to expand some as gaming in general did. However it would still likely be a much smaller market without WoW bringing in the millions of casual players.
I didn't say anything about how successful Asian MMO's would be, but rather whether or not they would be the same as thgey are now. I'm sure they too were influenced by WoW.
The highlighted part is exactly what I'm saying. It would probably be a smaller, and more niche market without WoW's success. That's what I would want.
That was exactly my point. Yeah, old school MMO players curse the very ground Blizzard devs walk upon, but now that we have a lot of themepark failures or at least so-so sales numbers out of the way, people can branch out and already are, into sandbox features, and with the shot in the arm that WoW gave the genre, these people should be glad it's come to this, though I agree it's taken a bit too long. The point is, people are more willing to try new things now, but only because they know their initial sales will probably be decent now that the genre is so well known.
My honest hope is that there will be enough variety in just a few years that no one will regret the WoW-copycat era and just be glad money is going into MMO's.
World of tanks has over 50 million players :O!!!
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
love the picture an miss the show =( bring back more episodes!
either way it a good thing wow exist as it a hub for gamers who are noobie an it casual player style set a stage for other MMO too have a chance same with the MOBA you have hard core too casual thanks too blizzard new one coming