I'm an endgame raider. if gameplay can offer raiding pre-endgame but in a way that's not cheesed by out-leveling content, (scaling???) then i'd be all in favor of ultra-long trips to endgame but basically I am in this position:
This actually brings up a good point. Everybody blames the player for rocketing through the lower levels and ruining the game, but how much of that is actually the devs fault for not designing a fun journey to begin with - and I don't mean more FedEx quests. DAoC Thid and Molv battlegrounds in the 20's and 30's were a good example. I and many other players spent years designing characters for them instead of the endgame lvl 50 rvr as the goal.
If there were competitive raids, sieges, or, hell, even minigames (was I the only one waiting for the goblin raceway that used to be in Shimmering Flats to become a thing?) and other types of gameplay scattered throughout the leveling process, more people might actually wait. Although, to be fair, people are so used to having nothing to do in those early levels but put on a netflix movie and zone out with your spacebar key taped down that it might take awhile to catch on =P
Players feel rewarded by each level - as they grow in power or abilities - it feels fun for them. So if you make leveling too slow and too grindy they will quit. If OTOH its too fast (saw GW2) they might quit your game earlier then you had hoped for and you will lose money.
Games nowadays do better then games like EQ - because they total number of players is much much much higher. Games like EQ were made in an era where only a few people wanted to play MMOS - but they REALLY wanted to play them. Hence slow leveling made sense. Nowadays MMOs are really just an excuse to have a single player game that's piracy proof and has some additional chatting/experience sharing features.
ESO is a good example. Rather then make another Skyrim and watch everyone and their brother pirate the crap out of it - they decided to release an MMO. Now if you want to pirate it you better reverse engineer a server.
I've grown to hate vertical leveling systems which is why my recent mmo selections have avoided vertical leveling systems. They are prone to inefficient usage of content, and later become rebalancing for higher tiers focused. A good horizontal leveling system is great in my opinion.
Totally too fast. When I start an MMO, I want something I can really sink my teeth into, something that has the capability of keeping me playing for years.
It could be either leveling that takes long or endgame that is so demanding you need a ton of time to complete it - both work fine for me.
I want a game that takes a long time to level. A game were the best gear Is truly the hardest to get. I want it to have long-term goals where i'll always have something to work for.
I hate modern mmo's where I feel like I hit a roadblock since I level extremely fast, and everything is handed to me on a silver platter.
Originally posted by Robokapp I'm an endgame raider. if gameplay can offer raiding pre-endgame but in a way that's not cheesed by out-leveling content, (scaling???) then i'd be all in favor of ultra-long trips to endgame but basically I am in this position:
This actually brings up a good point. Everybody blames the player for rocketing through the lower levels and ruining the game, but how much of that is actually the devs fault for not designing a fun journey to begin with - and I don't mean more FedEx quests. DAoC Thid and Molv battlegrounds in the 20's and 30's were a good example. I and many other players spent years designing characters for them instead of the endgame lvl 50 rvr as the goal.
That is an excellent point. A long journey is NOT fun or interesting by default. 2 very different things here
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
SWTOR gave a very good experience levelling one character you had in depth quests and fabulous stories and people rushed through anyway to finish the story.
What I love about slow games is the fact it gives you a lot of time to talk to people. Makes for a better community. If i game is all about rushing dungeons to rush to endgame then no one talks.
Of course, slow games can also show the evil side of human interaction - vide EVE where can meet some great people and some not so great people.
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
Originally posted by Bjelar Would it be so bad if people could set their own pace?If person A prefers to jump to the endgame fast, why not let him start a char at max level?If person B (me) prefers a snail pace mode with a permanent -90% XP modifier from level 1, why not give me the option?I`ve asked for -90% XP potions to be sold in ingame store, but people think I am joking...Are MMOs too fast paced when it comes to leveling? For me? Hell, yes.
In MMOs, because they are multiplayer, this is tough to do. Having players reach levels at different rates is hard to balance.
Personally, I want to play the same game as everyone else is playing (same rules), not one that is easier/harder or shorter/longer. Otherwise, I feel like I am playing a single player game, all by myself with no other player around. In my opinion, your example should be 2 separate games, not lumped into one.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
In MMOs, because they are multiplayer, this is tough to do. Having players reach levels at different rates is hard to balance.
Personally, I want to play the same game as everyone else is playing (same rules), not one that is easier/harder or shorter/longer. Otherwise, I feel like I am playing a single player game, all by myself with no other player around. In my opinion, your example should be 2 separate games, not lumped into one.
Simple .. segregate people that are at different levels. No one says multiplayer means every players in the world has to be playing together at the same time.
And there is nothing wrong with feeling like a single player game, if that is fun for the audience.
I think it depends I enjoy the journey but prefer speeding it up for alts. I think the experience needs to be more streamlined because there is a definite drag I. The middle of some games.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 I think it depends I enjoy the journey but prefer speeding it up for alts. I think the experience needs to be more streamlined because there is a definite drag I. The middle of some games.
That's a good point. I long for the days when MMORPGs had lots of starting areas so that alts did not go through the same content. Leveling alts can be tedious in today's MMOs.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Around hundred hours worth and 3 months to finish to normal player who only play less than 3h per day.
For a RPG , it a standard nowadays .
But for MMO , it gone wrong some where .
I mean the longest game i play for more than 2 years then in and off in 3 years latter until the game closed .
that game don't have much thing to do aside from log in , meet some "online friends" do stupid and pointless things together for hours then say bye to go for sleep.
At old days i wish we have more things to do aside chit chat and monster grind .
Sometime there are big event make by Gamemasters and it fun when a lots players gather.
There are castle siege and some PVP events , they are fun
But most time are grind and hunt stuff .
In term of contents , the old MMO must be short and less than currents game , yet players play them for long time .
Somehow it remind me this . It ironic that sometime less is more .
Behind turn based strategy games, I think RPGs, MMOs or single player are pretty slow to complete.
Most PvE has an end. PvE is the journey for me, like a giant tutorial to the challenging stuff. Then I PvP at endgame. And seeing PvP really does need minimal content updates compared to PvE my endgame lasts untill the community dwindles or I get bored.
I never approach MMORPG as a world I'm in, more a game I play a character I can develop. The level of tech isn't out there to make me actually care about these journeys or the character I'm controlling. If there's a story I may pay attention to it if it's interesting.
It's like caring about the chess board your chess pieces are atop. Who the hell cares about the board, as long as it's chequered?
Always have and always will be a journey guy (for MMO's not the band). Ignoring the game world so I can hope the raid boss drops my "special axe of specialness that everyone else already has" is kinda bland.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 I think it depends I enjoy the journey but prefer speeding it up for alts. I think the experience needs to be more streamlined because there is a definite drag I. The middle of some games.
That's a good point. I long for the days when MMORPGs had lots of starting areas so that alts did not go through the same content. Leveling alts can be tedious in today's MMOs.
Not if you can buy them pre-leveled (like the L90 toons in WoW).
I chose the last one. Not always but most times I want a very long journey with a nearly unreachable end. Most of the core gameplay happens from the start to halfway point which is like a soft cap. Beyond that to the hard cap there would be progression but its not as important though it is just enough to keep gaining something. Planetside2 is a good example of how I like progression.
In mmorpg terms it would be like having raiding by level 25 but your gear isn't outdated the next week.
Comments
This actually brings up a good point. Everybody blames the player for rocketing through the lower levels and ruining the game, but how much of that is actually the devs fault for not designing a fun journey to begin with - and I don't mean more FedEx quests. DAoC Thid and Molv battlegrounds in the 20's and 30's were a good example. I and many other players spent years designing characters for them instead of the endgame lvl 50 rvr as the goal.
If there were competitive raids, sieges, or, hell, even minigames (was I the only one waiting for the goblin raceway that used to be in Shimmering Flats to become a thing?) and other types of gameplay scattered throughout the leveling process, more people might actually wait. Although, to be fair, people are so used to having nothing to do in those early levels but put on a netflix movie and zone out with your spacebar key taped down that it might take awhile to catch on =P
It's a balancing act..
Players feel rewarded by each level - as they grow in power or abilities - it feels fun for them. So if you make leveling too slow and too grindy they will quit. If OTOH its too fast (saw GW2) they might quit your game earlier then you had hoped for and you will lose money.
Games nowadays do better then games like EQ - because they total number of players is much much much higher. Games like EQ were made in an era where only a few people wanted to play MMOS - but they REALLY wanted to play them. Hence slow leveling made sense. Nowadays MMOs are really just an excuse to have a single player game that's piracy proof and has some additional chatting/experience sharing features.
ESO is a good example. Rather then make another Skyrim and watch everyone and their brother pirate the crap out of it - they decided to release an MMO. Now if you want to pirate it you better reverse engineer a server.
Would it be so bad if people could set their own pace?
If person A prefers to jump to the endgame fast, why not let him start a char at max level?
If person B (me) prefers a snail pace mode with a permanent -90% XP modifier from level 1, why not give me the option?
I`ve asked for -90% XP potions to be sold in ingame store, but people think I am joking...
Are MMOs too fast paced when it comes to leveling? For me? Hell, yes.
Totally too fast. When I start an MMO, I want something I can really sink my teeth into, something that has the capability of keeping me playing for years.
It could be either leveling that takes long or endgame that is so demanding you need a ton of time to complete it - both work fine for me.
The Weekly Wizardry blog
I want a game that takes a long time to level. A game were the best gear Is truly the hardest to get. I want it to have long-term goals where i'll always have something to work for.
I hate modern mmo's where I feel like I hit a roadblock since I level extremely fast, and everything is handed to me on a silver platter.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
SWTOR gave a very good experience levelling one character you had in depth quests and fabulous stories and people rushed through anyway to finish the story.
What I love about slow games is the fact it gives you a lot of time to talk to people. Makes for a better community. If i game is all about rushing dungeons to rush to endgame then no one talks.
Of course, slow games can also show the evil side of human interaction - vide EVE where can meet some great people and some not so great people.
I want game where there's no "end game". Where everything is possible from day 1 but easier after you skill up!
Oh god I just defined Ultima Online.
Personally, I want to play the same game as everyone else is playing (same rules), not one that is easier/harder or shorter/longer. Otherwise, I feel like I am playing a single player game, all by myself with no other player around. In my opinion, your example should be 2 separate games, not lumped into one.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Simple .. segregate people that are at different levels. No one says multiplayer means every players in the world has to be playing together at the same time.
And there is nothing wrong with feeling like a single player game, if that is fun for the audience.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I think it not too fast for a RPG .
Around hundred hours worth and 3 months to finish to normal player who only play less than 3h per day.
For a RPG , it a standard nowadays .
But for MMO , it gone wrong some where .
I mean the longest game i play for more than 2 years then in and off in 3 years latter until the game closed .
that game don't have much thing to do aside from log in , meet some "online friends" do stupid and pointless things together for hours then say bye to go for sleep.
At old days i wish we have more things to do aside chit chat and monster grind .
Sometime there are big event make by Gamemasters and it fun when a lots players gather.
There are castle siege and some PVP events , they are fun
But most time are grind and hunt stuff .
In term of contents , the old MMO must be short and less than currents game , yet players play them for long time .
Somehow it remind me this . It ironic that sometime less is more .
[
perry the inaction figure lol .
How long is a piece of rope?
What exactly are you comparing against? Too fast compared to what?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Behind turn based strategy games, I think RPGs, MMOs or single player are pretty slow to complete.
Most PvE has an end. PvE is the journey for me, like a giant tutorial to the challenging stuff. Then I PvP at endgame. And seeing PvP really does need minimal content updates compared to PvE my endgame lasts untill the community dwindles or I get bored.
I never approach MMORPG as a world I'm in, more a game I play a character I can develop. The level of tech isn't out there to make me actually care about these journeys or the character I'm controlling. If there's a story I may pay attention to it if it's interesting.
It's like caring about the chess board your chess pieces are atop. Who the hell cares about the board, as long as it's chequered?
Not if you can buy them pre-leveled (like the L90 toons in WoW).
I chose the last one. Not always but most times I want a very long journey with a nearly unreachable end. Most of the core gameplay happens from the start to halfway point which is like a soft cap. Beyond that to the hard cap there would be progression but its not as important though it is just enough to keep gaining something. Planetside2 is a good example of how I like progression.
In mmorpg terms it would be like having raiding by level 25 but your gear isn't outdated the next week.
D3 .. paragon levels are infinite.
Not a MMO, but close enough.