Combat won't solve it. Less task. More quality quest. Stop strapping the whole game around these quest.
Well said, and that goes for way many more games than just ESO.
A long, well written and hard quest can be very fun but long chains with short easy quests just suck in any MMO.
Just grinding mobs might not be fun but grinding simple quests isn't either.
A MMO should challenge players and not only in dungeons/raids and PvP. We play for the rush and killing trashmobs or doing a FEDEX quest never gives any rush.
I personally would prefer if MMOs had few trashmobs, fewer but long and fun quest and more focus on the stuff most of us actually like. I mean, when was a pest control quest fun?
None combat quests can be fun though, the best quest in AoC was when someone had stolen jewels and you had to figure out who the thief was using your brain or intimidation.
I generally think that quests still should be in MMOs but feeding horses isn't a quest, finding the holy grail to save your kingdom is. Make a limit of 5 quests at the same time and make the quests really good instead of loads of menial tasks, and that is generally speaking for all themeparks.
I prefer GW2s dynamic quests, and not because they are better written but because they feel more urgent and when you do one there you actually focus on doing it and nothing else instead of having a full questlog and go through as many as possible as fast as you can. The future might not be in DEs but that doesn't really matter, what is important is making quests feel more fun and rewarding instead of just a grind to max level.
It's not that I find lore, story or quests dull. It wouldn't be an MMORPG without them. It's the fact that ALL MMORPG PvE combat is lacklustre, mundane and braindead. It's not stimulating at all.
Then the solution is to improve combat. There are plenty of SP games with good combat, MMOs can learn from that.
Combat won't solve it. Less task. More quality quest. Stop strapping the whole game around these quest.
Quests/missions work well in SP games. May be MMO needs to make quests more like those in SP games.
Why do so many people on these forums hate quests?
I see a lot of folks seethe hatred for quests, I just picture the old D&D cartoon Dungeon Master aproaching them and saying something like. "Oh mighty hero, I have a quest for thee!" and then the player spitting in his face and kicking him in the groin for having the odacity to give them a quest.
I guess I just don't get the hatred.
It's repetitive, and it's easy mode for devs, "go there kill that x amount of times and bring me te loot and I give you a reward."
Some players are offended by developers not putting in any effort to make a good game and take the easiest path to fill the wallets.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Why do so many people on these forums hate quests?
I see a lot of folks seethe hatred for quests, I just picture the old D&D cartoon Dungeon Master aproaching them and saying something like. "Oh mighty hero, I have a quest for thee!" and then the player spitting in his face and kicking him in the groin for having the odacity to give them a quest.
I guess I just don't get the hatred.
First we must define what you mean by "QUEST"..
If what you call a "task" such as kill 10 rats a quest, then YES, we have a problem with agreeing.. I loathe any game that resembles and plays like the quest hub game.. Having a world in which players follow the quest line segregates the community into themselves.. I"m on quest #11, and you are new to the zone and are at quest #1.. Why should I group with you? See! there is your problem, unless most of the player base in a particular zone are ALL going the same speed, players will fall apart from each other.. Even amongst friends it becomes an inconvenience that I can't play my toon, unless my buddy is playing too..
I'm all for Epic Quest similar to what EQ did, or even racial armor/weapons quest that take longer then a week to complete.. However, one of the biggest problems is how fast players level now.. You can't design a good mini quest for 20-25th level because players will BURN thru that content and level up so fast, it isn't worth questing for more then a day..
PS.. I really do HATE games where everyone is "the hero".. Shouldn't that be left to the single player console games?
Player A says, "Woot.. I just looted "The ONE Ring."
Player B responds, "awesome bro, I got mine last week."
Player C says, "Nice, our guild has that on farm now."
SO........... I guess that ONE Ring should be renamed to the "13,987th Ring"...... LOL
I don't know WOW has legendary quests that takes months to complete, but once you do you get a legendary item and it's pretty awesome and worth the hard work! I wonder if ESO will have legendary quests like that.
Originally posted by Gorwe I'll take another approach: let's see what the word "quest" means:
QUEST(noun): a long search for something that is difficult to find or an attempt to achieve something difficult.
This was taken from the Cambridge's dictionary. Just for the reference of value.
Let's apply this to the contemporary fantasy:
Was Frodo's journey a quest? Was Imrik's calling a quest? Did Sigmar went through a series of quests? How about King Conan's adventures? Bilbo and the Dwarfs?
Now, let's go to the contemporary MMOs:
Is killing ten wolves a quest? Retrieving a hanky for a lazy quest giver? Crafting something? Just going somewhere safe?
Is there another word that can describe these MMO actions? Back to the CUP dictionary! Here is one:
TASK(noun): a piece of work to be done, especially one done regularly, unwillingly or with difficulty
Again, back to the comparisons:
Frodo's journey a task? Prince Imrik's deeds a task? Bilbo's journey a task? King Conan's adventures a task? Sigmar's stuff a series of tasks?
and
Is killing ten wolves a task? Going somewhere safe? FedEx a task? Retrieving sth not even 5m from giver?
See the pattern?
I LOVE the quests! I fucking LOVE them! Meanwhile, I detest, even loathe the tasks. There are enough tasks in the Real Life thank you very much! Why would one want to do them again in games is beyond me.
Give us the QUESTS! Abolish the TASKS! ????? PROFIT!!!
You pretty much perfectly nailed my own problem with "quests". I can see tasks being a novelty once upon a time when grinding mobs was the default go-to way to level up so they broke up the pace in multiple ways, but in this day and age you're just a glorified pest exterminator and fed-ex delivery man reading or skipping through meaningless filler quest text which is more often than not just there because it's expected to be.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Originally posted by Gorwe I'll take another approach: let's see what the word "quest" means:
QUEST(noun): a long search for something that is difficult to find or an attempt to achieve something difficult.
This was taken from the Cambridge's dictionary. Just for the reference of value.
Let's apply this to the contemporary fantasy:
Was Frodo's journey a quest? Was Imrik's calling a quest? Did Sigmar went through a series of quests? How about King Conan's adventures? Bilbo and the Dwarfs?
Now, let's go to the contemporary MMOs:
Is killing ten wolves a quest? Retrieving a hanky for a lazy quest giver? Crafting something? Just going somewhere safe?
Is there another word that can describe these MMO actions? Back to the CUP dictionary! Here is one:
TASK(noun): a piece of work to be done, especially one done regularly, unwillingly or with difficulty
Again, back to the comparisons:
Frodo's journey a task? Prince Imrik's deeds a task? Bilbo's journey a task? King Conan's adventures a task? Sigmar's stuff a series of tasks?
and
Is killing ten wolves a task? Going somewhere safe? FedEx a task? Retrieving sth not even 5m from giver?
See the pattern?
I LOVE the quests! I fucking LOVE them! Meanwhile, I detest, even loathe the tasks. There are enough tasks in the Real Life thank you very much! Why would one want to do them again in games is beyond me.
Give us the QUESTS! Abolish the TASKS! ????? PROFIT!!!
This guy gets it. MMORPGs havent had Quests in many years.
Opps Sorry Gor.. You and I are on the same page.. LOL I guess I should of read the last page before responding.. LOL
Indeed we need to bring back QUEST, but I would not abolish task tho.. I would like to keep them in the game, but tweak them in this manner.. A city or village might have 1, 2 or even dozens of task NPC's.. A craftsman might need bear pelts for his trade so he offers coin and other rewards (faction & xp) for every 5 pristine bear pelts.. Every task should be repeatable and done as often as a player wants.. OR.. The task might be in a form of a bounty placed out by the local commander or mayor that wants bandits take care of.. For every 5 bandit badges the mayor rewards you with coin and faction..
I wish the days of faction standing would come back.. I loved it in vanilla WoW and EQ.. and it should be something that takes weeks or months to work on.. But this is only going to be possible if we slow down the pace of leveling / progression..
Opps Sorry Gor.. You and I are on the same page.. LOL I guess I should of read the last page before responding.. LOL
Indeed we need to bring back QUEST, but I would not abolish task tho.. I would like to keep them in the game, but tweak them in this manner.. A city or village might have 1, 2 or even dozens of task NPC's.. A craftsman might need bear pelts for his trade so he offers coin and other rewards (faction & xp) for every 5 pristine bear pelts.. Every task should be repeatable and done as often as a player wants.. OR.. The task might be in a form of a bounty placed out by the local commander or mayor that wants bandits take care of.. For every 5 bandit badges the mayor rewards you with coin and faction..
I wish the days of faction standing would come back.. I loved it in vanilla WoW and EQ.. and it should be something that takes weeks or months to work on.. But this is only going to be possible if we slow down the pace of leveling / progression..
I've been thinking the same. There should be tasks that utilise your crafting skills and gives you gold in return. I also have thought that you could sell your crafted items to a vendor, who pays you depending the stock of said items, and then sells them to other players with a minor profit. These tasks should be repeatable (no dailies anymore), and clever player finds the ones that gives the best reward.
There could be a specific vendor for each type of goods. Tailoring merchant buys cloth and a tanner pays you for leather you've skinned. Usually mobs drop shit loads of gray items you can vendor for some coins, but why on earth would anyone buy such crap. Crafting and gathering skills should be your main form of income in an MMO.
Quests should be something that takes several days or weeks to complete, and i agree with you for slowing down the pace of progression. That's one of the main reasons these games are in such a state as they are now.
I like that Deniter.. It reminds me of EQ vendors that would resell items players sold to them at a large mark up.. I think I'm following you here correct me if I'm wrong... You as a crafter make a leather tunic, which cost you raw materials, maybe some vendor oils and time.. You then either SELL that item directly to another player (so inventory becomes an issue), or you sell to a NPC vendor for coin.. You might have 50 copper of actual cost in the tunic, but the vendor pays you 4 silver for it.. You made a profit.. Now that vendor will resell that tunic for 30 silver.. Now where the fun begins is that the more tunics that vendor has on him, the less he'll pay the player for it.. So instead of getting 4 silver, you may be only offered 2sp and 80cp for it..
Along with slowing down progression, there needs to be inventory issues as well.. Banks HOLD too much nowadays.. I also like to see crafting slow down a bit too.. To be able to click, "craft all" and poof 1 minute later you made 30 tunics is BULL.. I like the idea of pressing "craft" and watching a progression bar for maybe 30 seconds.. After that 30 seconds that item is made, but there is a cool down period before you can craft more.. Just a thought..
PS.. I really do HATE games where everyone is "the hero".. Shouldn't that be left to the single player console games?
Just play them as single player games. Problem solved.
Problem not solved for people who are playing these games for more than a single player experience. You're willing to settle for this type of MMO, not everyone is, apparently.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I like that Deniter.. It reminds me of EQ vendors that would resell items players sold to them at a large mark up.. I think I'm following you here correct me if I'm wrong... You as a crafter make a leather tunic, which cost you raw materials, maybe some vendor oils and time.. You then either SELL that item directly to another player (so inventory becomes an issue), or you sell to a NPC vendor for coin.. You might have 50 copper of actual cost in the tunic, but the vendor pays you 4 silver for it.. You made a profit.. Now that vendor will resell that tunic for 30 silver.. Now where the fun begins is that the more tunics that vendor has on him, the less he'll pay the player for it.. So instead of getting 4 silver, you may be only offered 2sp and 80cp for it..
Along with slowing down progression, there needs to be inventory issues as well.. Banks HOLD too much nowadays.. I also like to see crafting slow down a bit too.. To be able to click, "craft all" and poof 1 minute later you made 30 tunics is BULL.. I like the idea of pressing "craft" and watching a progression bar for maybe 30 seconds.. After that 30 seconds that item is made, but there is a cool down period before you can craft more.. Just a thought..
You got me right. I've been thinking many times while playing Wow, why there's so many vendors and merchants in towns, yet they only sell stuff no one is willing to buy. Everything useful is sold via auction house, which is one more 'game menu' at best.
Wouldn't it be logical to seek a clothing store if you need new pants or shirt? Does anyone buy their clothes in an auction house? I don't think so.
Ofc, that would mean crafting would be much more time consuming and difficult to learn. Otherwise vendors would be filled with stuff nobody really wants. Also, some kind of item decay would be needed to ensure players would buy new stuff regularly.
EQ had tasks as well. They weren't really a means of progression. They were a bonus that gave a small reward and a very small amount of exp. Usually there were very simple to complete. Something like bring me crushbone belts or bring me some bat wings.
The big difference is some quests are designed beforehand and some just happen. I would think that an adventure would just happen as I go. It's not something that is predefined for everyone. Frodo's quests wasn't predefined. The ring happened upon him and eventually he had to bring the ring to mordor because of various random events that took place along the way. I've always said games can be good by dropping you in and letting things happen.
I've never been a huge fan of quests. Even in EQ I didn't do many quests. The early ones were to easy and the hard ones took forever to complete. I usually just wanted to wander and go where I pleased in game.
PS.. I really do HATE games where everyone is "the hero".. Shouldn't that be left to the single player console games?
Just play them as single player games. Problem solved.
Problem not solved for people who are playing these games for more than a single player experience. You're willing to settle for this type of MMO, not everyone is, apparently.
no no no ... i am not settling for anything. It is the other way around.
It is BECAUSE some MMOs can be enjoyed as SP games that I am even interested in them.
Some questing is fine, but count me as one that dislikes the super railed quest hubs, and dailies. I like the idea of more epic type quests, but if it is give water to plants, kill 10 rats, I can do without them in my mmo. I also don't need to be the hero, savior, or chosen one (with everyone else being the chosen one around me). Not a huge fan of story in my traditional mmo either, as usually when the story is done, I am done playing, which is more of a characteristic of a single player or lobby/co-op game to me. Also not a huge fan of over instancing, as that in itself can make a mmo feel like a lobby/co-op game (not saying all instances, but when most of the content is instanced).
So hate for quests? No. Hate for over doing it, and meaningless quests, yeah. Do I do them? Yes. It would be like refusing to drive my car to work and walking, if you tried to play most newer mmos outside of the rails.
Some questing is fine, but count me as one that dislikes the super railed quest hubs, and dailies. I like the idea of more epic type quests, but if it is give water to plants, kill 10 rats, I can do without them in my mmo. I also don't need to be the hero, savior, or chosen one (with everyone else being the chosen one around me). Not a huge fan of story in my traditional mmo either, as usually when the story is done, I am done playing, which is more of a characteristic of a single player or lobby/co-op game to me. Also not a huge fan of over instancing, as that in itself can make a mmo feel like a lobby/co-op game (not saying all instances, but when most of the content is instanced).
Just a label. If we suddenly call MMOs lobby co-op games, you will like it then?
Personally i only care if the game is fun .. and good stories like those in bioshock infinite or Dishonored are fun to me. MMOs, if they really want stories/quests, should learn from that. And if you change the label to something else but make it fun, i will say .. go for it.
Some questing is fine, but count me as one that dislikes the super railed quest hubs, and dailies. I like the idea of more epic type quests, but if it is give water to plants, kill 10 rats, I can do without them in my mmo. I also don't need to be the hero, savior, or chosen one (with everyone else being the chosen one around me). Not a huge fan of story in my traditional mmo either, as usually when the story is done, I am done playing, which is more of a characteristic of a single player or lobby/co-op game to me. Also not a huge fan of over instancing, as that in itself can make a mmo feel like a lobby/co-op game (not saying all instances, but when most of the content is instanced).
Just a label. If we suddenly call MMOs lobby co-op games, you will like it then?
Personally i only care if the game is fun .. and good stories like those in bioshock infinite or Dishonored are fun to me. MMOs, if they really want stories/quests, should learn from that. And if you change the label to something else but make it fun, i will say .. go for it.
I never said to not call them what you want, I was talking mechanics and answering a question. As to your question, if I am looking for a traditional mmo experience, the label is not going to make the game any more or less fun. If I gave you chicken fried rice and told you it was a pizza, it may be good, or suck, but it would be kind of silly.
I stand by what I wrote, I have cravings, one play style does not fit all for me.
I used to play runescape back in 2002, I still think they had better quests than most new MMO's.
I actually agree. Not even being sarcastic. I don't recall many of the quests, but one that comes to mind was the level (50?) dragon slaying quest that was necessary to unlock the ability to wear the Runite plate chest piece. There was so much work-up just to be qualified to do the quest, and once you were, you had to use certain leveled skills to get items, etc. Once getting to the point where you had everything ready to set sail to the island where you fight the dragon, you'd already felt like a very difficult quest was completed.
The title tasks would suit modern quests better. Now, do people hate these so-called quests? Not necessarily, they just dislike leveling being completely based on them.
Take Wildstar for example. You mainly level by doing quests in the game. In some older games, you generally remembered the quests, where they were, what they rewarded and so on - that was because they weren't overdone: they were pretty scrace and not extremely linear. Some games had quest hubs, but hubs weren't all linked together, and the quests were a little more varied: they may even have taken you to other zones and then made you come back to collect your reward.
In Wildstar, which I am using as an example because its something a lot of people have probably tried here in the beta, you don't remember specific quests. You click an NPC, you follow the 3D arrow on your screen and then kill some clearly marked monsters or collect some sparkly items until the arrow points in another direction or the area is no longer highlighted on your map. Once you've done that a few times, you return to the quest hub, click a few NPCs and the arrow points you to the next hub. In the best case you're even teleported there or transported in another fashion.
Quests became not a break from the grind, but the grind. World of Warcraft started it with the big exclamation marks, but it wasn't that bad originally. Now they are a mere annoyance to a lot of people. That's why they're disliked. There's no choice either, because all modern themeparks have a group XP penalty - wanna grind monsters with your friend, good luck getting way less XP.
Agreed about quest necessity. I enjoy questing more than mob grinding, (usually). But I don't like feeling like it's the ONLY way to progress. WildStar has awesome looking raid content imo, but when I played the beta I felt like a delivery boy almost the entire time. It didn't help that more quests than not felt pretty generic.
I think another aspect that's come to mind is atmosphere/immersion. It's a new concept for me to incorporate with my taste in quests. But after playing ESO, I'll add my thoughts. I think another big part of what makes questing enjoyable or not is whether you feel like you're doing a quest in a part of a larger world, or if you're doing a quest in 'a game'. I'll give a short example of a "junk quest" in ESO. Junk ie: Not main story or chain quest.
The quests are far from what I'd consider generic, and I've yet to run across one that's seemed like I was simply running errands. Or if I was running an errand, it was me being deceived into delivering potions that knocked people out instead of curing them, so that the 'savior' could cart their bodies off to his cannibal/vampire of a son. He was only able to do this because the town trusted him. My character only becomes suspect of foul play when a lady pleads with me to check on her missing son. This would lead me to bribing a guard to enter the doctor/saviors room and look for evidence. Once evidence was found, I would go back and bribe the same mercenary for information on how to get into the mine. Once bribed he would tell me where to find mercenary gear to get passed the merc guards in front of the mine where everyone was being held. This isn't even a main quest. It's just "one of the typical quests" for ESO. So I really am thinking that the quality of quests in MMO's can effect how believable of a world players are in.
The title tasks would suit modern quests better. Now, do people hate these so-called quests? Not necessarily, they just dislike leveling being completely based on them.
Take Wildstar for example. You mainly level by doing quests in the game. In some older games, you generally remembered the quests, where they were, what they rewarded and so on - that was because they weren't overdone: they were pretty scrace and not extremely linear. Some games had quest hubs, but hubs weren't all linked together, and the quests were a little more varied: they may even have taken you to other zones and then made you come back to collect your reward.
In Wildstar, which I am using as an example because its something a lot of people have probably tried here in the beta, you don't remember specific quests. You click an NPC, you follow the 3D arrow on your screen and then kill some clearly marked monsters or collect some sparkly items until the arrow points in another direction or the area is no longer highlighted on your map. Once you've done that a few times, you return to the quest hub, click a few NPCs and the arrow points you to the next hub. In the best case you're even teleported there or transported in another fashion.
Quests became not a break from the grind, but the grind. World of Warcraft started it with the big exclamation marks, but it wasn't that bad originally. Now they are a mere annoyance to a lot of people. That's why they're disliked. There's no choice either, because all modern themeparks have a group XP penalty - wanna grind monsters with your friend, good luck getting way less XP.
let's bring another example: ESO.
i remember every quest i have done so far, and i know why i did it and what for
(yes, you might have guessed it, i don't hate quests)
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I never said to not call them what you want, I was talking mechanics and answering a question. As to your question, if I am looking for a traditional mmo experience, the label is not going to make the game any more or less fun. If I gave you chicken fried rice and told you it was a pizza, it may be good, or suck, but it would be kind of silly.
But definition of MMO is a lot more loose than pizza or chicken.
If you ask me for a sandwich, would you care if it is smoke salmon or turkey as long as both taste great to you?
May be the problem with MMOs is the name. If they are all called corpg, then you will like them?
I never said to not call them what you want, I was talking mechanics and answering a question. As to your question, if I am looking for a traditional mmo experience, the label is not going to make the game any more or less fun. If I gave you chicken fried rice and told you it was a pizza, it may be good, or suck, but it would be kind of silly.
But definition of MMO is a lot more loose than pizza or chicken.
If you ask me for a sandwich, would you care if it is smoke salmon or turkey as long as both taste great to you?
May be the problem with MMOs is the name. If they are all called corpg, then you will like them?
I don't think the case is that people care about the name. It just they come looking for something and get something else. I don't play MMORPG's for single player gameplay. I play single players games. I don't need the online medium to play a game I could play without subs or bait cash shops. I can mod single player games and basically do what I want. MMORPG's are tightly regulated. I don't have to worry about combat and graphics being molded around being in the same place as hundreds of people. MMORPG's aren't used up to their potential trying to be something their not best suited for.
I never said to not call them what you want, I was talking mechanics and answering a question. As to your question, if I am looking for a traditional mmo experience, the label is not going to make the game any more or less fun. If I gave you chicken fried rice and told you it was a pizza, it may be good, or suck, but it would be kind of silly.
But definition of MMO is a lot more loose than pizza or chicken.
If you ask me for a sandwich, would you care if it is smoke salmon or turkey as long as both taste great to you?
May be the problem with MMOs is the name. If they are all called corpg, then you will like them?
Comments
Well said, and that goes for way many more games than just ESO.
A long, well written and hard quest can be very fun but long chains with short easy quests just suck in any MMO.
Just grinding mobs might not be fun but grinding simple quests isn't either.
A MMO should challenge players and not only in dungeons/raids and PvP. We play for the rush and killing trashmobs or doing a FEDEX quest never gives any rush.
I personally would prefer if MMOs had few trashmobs, fewer but long and fun quest and more focus on the stuff most of us actually like. I mean, when was a pest control quest fun?
None combat quests can be fun though, the best quest in AoC was when someone had stolen jewels and you had to figure out who the thief was using your brain or intimidation.
I generally think that quests still should be in MMOs but feeding horses isn't a quest, finding the holy grail to save your kingdom is. Make a limit of 5 quests at the same time and make the quests really good instead of loads of menial tasks, and that is generally speaking for all themeparks.
I prefer GW2s dynamic quests, and not because they are better written but because they feel more urgent and when you do one there you actually focus on doing it and nothing else instead of having a full questlog and go through as many as possible as fast as you can. The future might not be in DEs but that doesn't really matter, what is important is making quests feel more fun and rewarding instead of just a grind to max level.
Quests/missions work well in SP games. May be MMO needs to make quests more like those in SP games.
It's repetitive, and it's easy mode for devs, "go there kill that x amount of times and bring me te loot and I give you a reward."
Some players are offended by developers not putting in any effort to make a good game and take the easiest path to fill the wallets.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
First we must define what you mean by "QUEST"..
If what you call a "task" such as kill 10 rats a quest, then YES, we have a problem with agreeing.. I loathe any game that resembles and plays like the quest hub game.. Having a world in which players follow the quest line segregates the community into themselves.. I"m on quest #11, and you are new to the zone and are at quest #1.. Why should I group with you? See! there is your problem, unless most of the player base in a particular zone are ALL going the same speed, players will fall apart from each other.. Even amongst friends it becomes an inconvenience that I can't play my toon, unless my buddy is playing too..
I'm all for Epic Quest similar to what EQ did, or even racial armor/weapons quest that take longer then a week to complete.. However, one of the biggest problems is how fast players level now.. You can't design a good mini quest for 20-25th level because players will BURN thru that content and level up so fast, it isn't worth questing for more then a day..
PS.. I really do HATE games where everyone is "the hero".. Shouldn't that be left to the single player console games?
Player A says, "Woot.. I just looted "The ONE Ring."
Player B responds, "awesome bro, I got mine last week."
Player C says, "Nice, our guild has that on farm now."
SO........... I guess that ONE Ring should be renamed to the "13,987th Ring"...... LOL
You pretty much perfectly nailed my own problem with "quests". I can see tasks being a novelty once upon a time when grinding mobs was the default go-to way to level up so they broke up the pace in multiple ways, but in this day and age you're just a glorified pest exterminator and fed-ex delivery man reading or skipping through meaningless filler quest text which is more often than not just there because it's expected to be.
This guy gets it. MMORPGs havent had Quests in many years.
Opps Sorry Gor.. You and I are on the same page.. LOL I guess I should of read the last page before responding.. LOL
Indeed we need to bring back QUEST, but I would not abolish task tho.. I would like to keep them in the game, but tweak them in this manner.. A city or village might have 1, 2 or even dozens of task NPC's.. A craftsman might need bear pelts for his trade so he offers coin and other rewards (faction & xp) for every 5 pristine bear pelts.. Every task should be repeatable and done as often as a player wants.. OR.. The task might be in a form of a bounty placed out by the local commander or mayor that wants bandits take care of.. For every 5 bandit badges the mayor rewards you with coin and faction..
I wish the days of faction standing would come back.. I loved it in vanilla WoW and EQ.. and it should be something that takes weeks or months to work on.. But this is only going to be possible if we slow down the pace of leveling / progression..
I've been thinking the same. There should be tasks that utilise your crafting skills and gives you gold in return. I also have thought that you could sell your crafted items to a vendor, who pays you depending the stock of said items, and then sells them to other players with a minor profit. These tasks should be repeatable (no dailies anymore), and clever player finds the ones that gives the best reward.
There could be a specific vendor for each type of goods. Tailoring merchant buys cloth and a tanner pays you for leather you've skinned. Usually mobs drop shit loads of gray items you can vendor for some coins, but why on earth would anyone buy such crap. Crafting and gathering skills should be your main form of income in an MMO.
Quests should be something that takes several days or weeks to complete, and i agree with you for slowing down the pace of progression. That's one of the main reasons these games are in such a state as they are now.
I like that Deniter.. It reminds me of EQ vendors that would resell items players sold to them at a large mark up.. I think I'm following you here correct me if I'm wrong... You as a crafter make a leather tunic, which cost you raw materials, maybe some vendor oils and time.. You then either SELL that item directly to another player (so inventory becomes an issue), or you sell to a NPC vendor for coin.. You might have 50 copper of actual cost in the tunic, but the vendor pays you 4 silver for it.. You made a profit.. Now that vendor will resell that tunic for 30 silver.. Now where the fun begins is that the more tunics that vendor has on him, the less he'll pay the player for it.. So instead of getting 4 silver, you may be only offered 2sp and 80cp for it..
Along with slowing down progression, there needs to be inventory issues as well.. Banks HOLD too much nowadays.. I also like to see crafting slow down a bit too.. To be able to click, "craft all" and poof 1 minute later you made 30 tunics is BULL.. I like the idea of pressing "craft" and watching a progression bar for maybe 30 seconds.. After that 30 seconds that item is made, but there is a cool down period before you can craft more.. Just a thought..
Just play them as single player games. Problem solved.
Problem not solved for people who are playing these games for more than a single player experience. You're willing to settle for this type of MMO, not everyone is, apparently.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
You got me right. I've been thinking many times while playing Wow, why there's so many vendors and merchants in towns, yet they only sell stuff no one is willing to buy. Everything useful is sold via auction house, which is one more 'game menu' at best.
Wouldn't it be logical to seek a clothing store if you need new pants or shirt? Does anyone buy their clothes in an auction house? I don't think so.
Ofc, that would mean crafting would be much more time consuming and difficult to learn. Otherwise vendors would be filled with stuff nobody really wants. Also, some kind of item decay would be needed to ensure players would buy new stuff regularly.
EQ had tasks as well. They weren't really a means of progression. They were a bonus that gave a small reward and a very small amount of exp. Usually there were very simple to complete. Something like bring me crushbone belts or bring me some bat wings.
The big difference is some quests are designed beforehand and some just happen. I would think that an adventure would just happen as I go. It's not something that is predefined for everyone. Frodo's quests wasn't predefined. The ring happened upon him and eventually he had to bring the ring to mordor because of various random events that took place along the way. I've always said games can be good by dropping you in and letting things happen.
I've never been a huge fan of quests. Even in EQ I didn't do many quests. The early ones were to easy and the hard ones took forever to complete. I usually just wanted to wander and go where I pleased in game.
no no no ... i am not settling for anything. It is the other way around.
It is BECAUSE some MMOs can be enjoyed as SP games that I am even interested in them.
Some questing is fine, but count me as one that dislikes the super railed quest hubs, and dailies. I like the idea of more epic type quests, but if it is give water to plants, kill 10 rats, I can do without them in my mmo. I also don't need to be the hero, savior, or chosen one (with everyone else being the chosen one around me). Not a huge fan of story in my traditional mmo either, as usually when the story is done, I am done playing, which is more of a characteristic of a single player or lobby/co-op game to me. Also not a huge fan of over instancing, as that in itself can make a mmo feel like a lobby/co-op game (not saying all instances, but when most of the content is instanced).
So hate for quests? No. Hate for over doing it, and meaningless quests, yeah. Do I do them? Yes. It would be like refusing to drive my car to work and walking, if you tried to play most newer mmos outside of the rails.
Just a label. If we suddenly call MMOs lobby co-op games, you will like it then?
Personally i only care if the game is fun .. and good stories like those in bioshock infinite or Dishonored are fun to me. MMOs, if they really want stories/quests, should learn from that. And if you change the label to something else but make it fun, i will say .. go for it.
I never said to not call them what you want, I was talking mechanics and answering a question. As to your question, if I am looking for a traditional mmo experience, the label is not going to make the game any more or less fun. If I gave you chicken fried rice and told you it was a pizza, it may be good, or suck, but it would be kind of silly.
I stand by what I wrote, I have cravings, one play style does not fit all for me.
I actually agree. Not even being sarcastic. I don't recall many of the quests, but one that comes to mind was the level (50?) dragon slaying quest that was necessary to unlock the ability to wear the Runite plate chest piece. There was so much work-up just to be qualified to do the quest, and once you were, you had to use certain leveled skills to get items, etc. Once getting to the point where you had everything ready to set sail to the island where you fight the dragon, you'd already felt like a very difficult quest was completed.
Agreed about quest necessity. I enjoy questing more than mob grinding, (usually). But I don't like feeling like it's the ONLY way to progress. WildStar has awesome looking raid content imo, but when I played the beta I felt like a delivery boy almost the entire time. It didn't help that more quests than not felt pretty generic.
I think another aspect that's come to mind is atmosphere/immersion. It's a new concept for me to incorporate with my taste in quests. But after playing ESO, I'll add my thoughts. I think another big part of what makes questing enjoyable or not is whether you feel like you're doing a quest in a part of a larger world, or if you're doing a quest in 'a game'. I'll give a short example of a "junk quest" in ESO. Junk ie: Not main story or chain quest.
The quests are far from what I'd consider generic, and I've yet to run across one that's seemed like I was simply running errands. Or if I was running an errand, it was me being deceived into delivering potions that knocked people out instead of curing them, so that the 'savior' could cart their bodies off to his cannibal/vampire of a son. He was only able to do this because the town trusted him. My character only becomes suspect of foul play when a lady pleads with me to check on her missing son. This would lead me to bribing a guard to enter the doctor/saviors room and look for evidence. Once evidence was found, I would go back and bribe the same mercenary for information on how to get into the mine. Once bribed he would tell me where to find mercenary gear to get passed the merc guards in front of the mine where everyone was being held. This isn't even a main quest. It's just "one of the typical quests" for ESO. So I really am thinking that the quality of quests in MMO's can effect how believable of a world players are in.
let's bring another example: ESO.
i remember every quest i have done so far, and i know why i did it and what for
(yes, you might have guessed it, i don't hate quests)
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
But definition of MMO is a lot more loose than pizza or chicken.
If you ask me for a sandwich, would you care if it is smoke salmon or turkey as long as both taste great to you?
May be the problem with MMOs is the name. If they are all called corpg, then you will like them?
I don't think the case is that people care about the name. It just they come looking for something and get something else. I don't play MMORPG's for single player gameplay. I play single players games. I don't need the online medium to play a game I could play without subs or bait cash shops. I can mod single player games and basically do what I want. MMORPG's are tightly regulated. I don't have to worry about combat and graphics being molded around being in the same place as hundreds of people. MMORPG's aren't used up to their potential trying to be something their not best suited for.
I think I said no.