Originally posted by Viadric So this game is just focused on PVP for end game? There is no hardcore end game PVE content like Raids, Heroic Dungeons, or Dailies? If this is just another spam RvRvR Guild Wars 2 end game than I guess I shall wait for Wildstar.
A game with no 24/7 emoraging "must turn up every day and devote every free minute to your guild or get kicked" endgame is a win for me.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by kabitoshin I won't be seeing endgame for a while I've got 40 hours invested and only 17. I been crafting, listening to all the dialogue, and going for 100% zone completion. I know there's some people that found more viable ways to level, but for me doing it solo and at my pace I might not see max level for couple of months hopefully.
40 hours? Must be new to mmo's I would probably be max level or close to it by than. Unless this is like a Korean grinder.
It's teh nature of the game really there's a lot of running around, if you're doing content and not power leveling. IT's by no means a game like lineage, but it's not exactly TOR either. It's closer to Vanilla WOW or LOTRO in terms of pacing.
Yeah you just can get to 50 in under 24 hours.
The difference is that in WoW you can get to level 90 in less than 2 weeks while having job, real life, and so on. In order to correct this obvious problem you need to pay to stop getting exp (wtf?). In TESO you can rush to endgame and skipp the content just like in WoW but then you can stick to the content, play it and don't have to pay extra for this. It's the difference in design that in fact right now works better in TESO than in WoW - rushing guys can have their instant gratification, ordinary player can have their share of fun too.
Originally posted by Sajman01 Might have something to do with:
56% of players are solos 73% of players will never do a dungeon 91% of players will never raid
I don't know your source (a link would be nice), but are you referring to WoW players as well? Because there are some millions of them (a pretty big % of overall mmo player base) who would at least find funny these numbers
WoW can not be compared to any mmorpg coming out or did came out in the recent years. It as 10 years behind it so content wise it has plenty. So much in fact that any mmorpg recent or new or future can not have that much content right form the start not even half of it.
But ESO the thing it as will catter the grinding crowd because you can level again at 50 like 2 more times to get more skill points and gear etc. You will run the same maps but with harder content it is like doing 1 to 50 all over again a few more times.
That is there end game for now that is it. They did say rpg with mmo on top . It is not for everyone that is a fact but it is not a bad game, just different. Not new but different.
Originally posted by Viadric Well that's a slap in the face to PVER's. Why in the hell would you not release endgame PVE content for the majority of mmo players who prefer PVE in this day and age?
I'm mainly a PVE player and I dont raid, at all. End game nor PVE should never ever revolve around raiding imo, it's the easy way out for devs, makes the open world meaningless, and forces the game into a boring gear threadmill with mandatory level cap increases every expansion and all the yada yada that's been done a million times already.
PVE does not equal raiding, just with a little hint of imagination I can come up with a dozen ways for PVE content that is not raiding. Dont get me wrong, I think raiding should be part of PVE endgame, because obviously there's people who like that, but talking about raiding as if it was the only way to PVE makes me wonder if one truly even wants to play mmorpgs.
Originally posted by Sajman01 Might have something to do with:
56% of players are solos 73% of players will never do a dungeon 91% of players will never raid
I don't know your source (a link would be nice), but are you referring to WoW players as well? Because there are some millions of them (a pretty big % of overall mmo player base) who would at least find funny these numbers
Just go take a look at Carbine and Wildstar, which they claim is aimed at raiders, which they also claimed is 1% of people that play MMOs.
As for WoW, I remember Blizzard put out some numbers a while back that showed the players of WoW that actually took part in raid content was the smallest sub section of the player base.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Trials. Twelve people fighting through an increasingly difficult experience. A Trial is instanced to your group of twelve. There is a staging area where you can plan your attack and the Trial itself.
In a Trial, you will have a limited number of resurrections, known as a Soul Reservoir. Too many resurrections mean that you have failed the trial. It takes a lot of coordination to survive a Trial. The enemies you face in a Trial will be difficult, while the surroundings are some of the most beautiful places in ESO. Provided you do survive and make it to the end of a Trial, your group might make it to the leaderboard. Trials have a running clock and mistakes, including deaths, can add a time penalty. Turn in a great time, however, and you might make it to the top of the leaderboard. If you fail, your group can restart and try again.
That would seem to be the closest to raids and it doesn't sound as though it is like a raid, seems more like a survival mode.
I haven't bought the game yet due my suspicions from the beta about a lack of group PvE focus beyond 4 man however these trials do seem promising. It's the sort of thing that should of been in the game at launch to counter balance all the PvP stuff however all we've heard so far is words so I'm not going to throw my money at zenimax until I've seen what exactly these trials are and whether it's worthy PvE content.
Originally posted by kabitoshin I won't be seeing endgame for a while I've got 40 hours invested and only 17. I been crafting, listening to all the dialogue, and going for 100% zone completion. I know there's some people that found more viable ways to level, but for me doing it solo and at my pace I might not see max level for couple of months hopefully.
40 hours? Must be new to mmo's I would probably be max level or close to it by than. Unless this is like a Korean grinder.
It's teh nature of the game really there's a lot of running around, if you're doing content and not power leveling. IT's by no means a game like lineage, but it's not exactly TOR either. It's closer to Vanilla WOW or LOTRO in terms of pacing.
Man for someone who doesn't even play the game you do write posts as if you are drawing from your own play experince. Its like i have to remind myself that 'this dude doesn't even own the game'.
Crazy!!!!!
Owning=/= Playing..... I did play the game quite a bit over 3 different weekends.The rest of this was asking questions you really wouldn't know if you played or didn't... Craglorn is not in the game yet. Not to mention most are not at endgame.... I can also well, you know.. Read.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I guess it's understandable that players want to see their favorite type of content in the games they think look interesting, however, I also find it strange how some players try to push their style of play on other games, while acting like the game is wrong for not having feature x or y.
The truth is, that making good gameplay systems is hard. Making good content is hard, and nobody has really managed to launch a MMO with all the big feature planes covered.
Elder Scrolls has launched with a deep and complex RvRvR system, it has deep crafting. Right there you have two major infastructure styles of play not supported by WoW years later. Not even WoW launched with dedicated PvP system nor raids.
I don't think all games needs to offer the same things to be good. Guild Wars 2 is as good as it is because they didn't dedicate vast amounts of their resources from other systems to make raids. PvP in ESO wouldn't be so grand and good had they used 50% of those resources to make raids. Most likely you would have ended up with bad Raids AND bad PvP.
Of course that is speculation, but I truly think it's better to be better at fewer things, and then add from there. Zenimax and ArenaNet have my respect from not hoping on a band wagon and just adding raids like it was some status quo.
We need different games. I dislike raids myself. It's way to time consuming for my playstyle, so for me it's good to have raid less games.
Right now there is no adventure zones for end game yet, well that's what the guy said above. Just 4 man dungeons. Those get boring really fast. I prefer dynamic raids, dailies, heroic hard dungeongs and hardcore PVE guilds. Not running around in PVP spamming RvRvR. I have Guild Wars 2 for that type of gameplay.
Well then you are really out of luck. there are not goig to be raids, Particularly becuase that doesn't exactly fit into the game world. Still, I think it "could" be possible to fit them in after a fashion by introducing oblvion gates people could enter with a boss at the end, but that's just my thought.
The closest thing will be the "epic dungeons".
There is a link around here somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.
As far as "end game" you have two more factions of pve content.
from Matt Firor:
ESO has a huge advantage over other startup MMOs in that it’s built on a successful franchise, but how are you handling sustainability post-launch? What sort of content rollout schedule should players expect?
We have been working on post-launch content for many months now – our first post-launch package, Craglorn, is our first Adventure Zone. It introduces Trials, a large-group competitive PvE endgame, four-man Veteran Dungeons, a Death Recap screen so you can see who or what killed you, and an entire overworld designed for groups. While the content packages we have will range in feature sets, Craglorn illustrates the kind of commitment we have to providing regular content to our players. Over time, you’ll get new systems, new zones, new quests, stories, and lots more.
So you can absolutely can finish your story at the level 50, but at the time you hit level 50 you will have about 30% of your skills. You are able to get many more skills as you explore through the game.
Once you hit level 50 you have a couple of different options:
You can go to Cyrodiil and participate in PvP. You can PvP from the 10th level, but now it is the time to show who the boss is.
You can go start doing Master Dungeons. We are launching with 16 regular dungeons and 6 Master Dungeons. Master Dungeons are the dungeons that you have already done but they contain more areas and continuation of the story. Enemies are different, bosses are different and loot is also different.
You can go and do the adventure zones. Adventure zones contain special content maid for groups.
Once you have finished content on your alliance territory, you can pick one of the other alliances and do their quests. Then you can pick the third alliance. So you can potentially explore all Tamriel with one character regardless you alliance choice. Each alliance is about 120 to 150 hours depending on how you go through it.
Post Launch
We have pretty aggressive post launch schedule. Imperial city is under siege and we will be involving the story of the Imperial city post launch. We will also be introducing the justice system. Right now you can steal thing from the table and nobody is going really stop you. Justice system will affect all theft mechanics. We will also be introducing Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood with new story and quest lines.
I'm hearing a lot of people say this game is about the leveling experience. If that's the case, this is the worst MMO I've played in YEARS. The leveling is boring...
Originally posted by kabitoshin I won't be seeing endgame for a while I've got 40 hours invested and only 17. I been crafting, listening to all the dialogue, and going for 100% zone completion. I know there's some people that found more viable ways to level, but for me doing it solo and at my pace I might not see max level for couple of months hopefully.
40 hours? Must be new to mmo's I would probably be max level or close to it by than. Unless this is like a Korean grinder.
It's teh nature of the game really there's a lot of running around, if you're doing content and not power leveling. IT's by no means a game like lineage, but it's not exactly TOR either. It's closer to Vanilla WOW or LOTRO in terms of pacing.
Man for someone who doesn't even play the game you do write posts as if you are drawing from your own play experince. Its like i have to remind myself that 'this dude doesn't even own the game'.
Crazy!!!!!
Owning=/= Playing..... I did play the game quite a bit over 3 different weekends.The rest of this was asking questions you really wouldn't know if you played or didn't... Craglorn is not in the game yet. Not to mention most are not at endgame.... I can also well, you know.. Read.
Hardly enough time. I think you should play the game first because most of what you say is just what you have read on the forums.
Master Dungeons and 12 man trials ARE end game PvE. 12 man trials sound great. It sounds just like 12 man raiding without the endless wiping.
I don't see the problem here. If you run out of content you can always switch to Wildstar with its 40 man raiding. In the meantime I am keen on the questing and leveling content in ESO. The voice acting is really excellent in this game - and there is a ton of it. And the stories make sense..
I don't know how people loved the questing in FFXIV - I thought it was impossibly convoluted with awful voice acting. This is the best questing MMO I have ever played. The only issue is make sure you are in lockstep with your friends because the instancing/ phasing can be harsh.
Hardly enough time. I think you should play the game first because most of what you say is just what you have read on the forums.
IN reference to what exactly that I've said? AM I not supposed to share my experience on what I have seen or read? WIll I see this same point from you toward someone who posts more negatively by chance? Or will you continue to berate anyone who says something like this to them?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Hardly enough time. I think you should play the game first because most of what you say is just what you have read on the forums.
IN reference to what exactly that I've said? AM I not supposed to share my experience on what I have seen or read?
Ofcourse you are but like i said once you sink atleast 50 to 100 hours in live version your opinions might change a lot both in positive as well as negative terms.
I would never base my thoughts on what i read on these forums though.
I don't care if people post negative or positive about the game however i do prefer that person giving his opinions has first hand experince with the game.
Hardly enough time. I think you should play the game first because most of what you say is just what you have read on the forums.
IN reference to what exactly that I've said? AM I not supposed to share my experience on what I have seen or read?
Ofcourse you are but like i said once you sink atleast 50 to 100 hours in live version your opinions might change a lot both in positive as well as negative terms.
I would never base my thoughts on what i read on these forums though.
That goes without saying, but what point are you making toward me that doesn't apply to everyone here?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't care if people post negative or positive about the game however i do prefer that person giving his opinions has first hand experince with the game.
How is 30+ hrs not hands on experience?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't care if people post negative or positive about the game however i do prefer that person giving his opinions has first hand experince with the game.
How is 30+ hrs not hands on experience?
Because came has been changing almost daily since beta. And you couldn't gone too far in beta to have a very informed opinion about the game.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by BigdaddyxI don't care if people post negative or positive about the game however i do prefer that person giving his opinions has first hand experince with the game.
How is 30+ hrs not hands on experience?
cause he's complaining about 'endgame' and he's not even lvl 50 yet.
Originally posted by BigdaddyxI don't care if people post negative or positive about the game however i do prefer that person giving his opinions has first hand experince with the game.
How is 30+ hrs not hands on experience?
cause he's complaining about 'endgame' and he's not even lvl 50 yet.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
A game with no 24/7 emoraging "must turn up every day and devote every free minute to your guild or get kicked" endgame is a win for me.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
That's through choice of the player. If YOU choose to solo that isn't the games fault. There's plenty of group stuff to do in 50+/++ areas.
56% of players are solos
73% of players will never do a dungeon
91% of players will never raid
The difference is that in WoW you can get to level 90 in less than 2 weeks while having job, real life, and so on. In order to correct this obvious problem you need to pay to stop getting exp (wtf?). In TESO you can rush to endgame and skipp the content just like in WoW but then you can stick to the content, play it and don't have to pay extra for this. It's the difference in design that in fact right now works better in TESO than in WoW - rushing guys can have their instant gratification, ordinary player can have their share of fun too.
I don't know your source (a link would be nice), but are you referring to WoW players as well? Because there are some millions of them (a pretty big % of overall mmo player base) who would at least find funny these numbers
WoW can not be compared to any mmorpg coming out or did came out in the recent years. It as 10 years behind it so content wise it has plenty. So much in fact that any mmorpg recent or new or future can not have that much content right form the start not even half of it.
But ESO the thing it as will catter the grinding crowd because you can level again at 50 like 2 more times to get more skill points and gear etc. You will run the same maps but with harder content it is like doing 1 to 50 all over again a few more times.
That is there end game for now that is it. They did say rpg with mmo on top . It is not for everyone that is a fact but it is not a bad game, just different. Not new but different.
I'm mainly a PVE player and I dont raid, at all. End game nor PVE should never ever revolve around raiding imo, it's the easy way out for devs, makes the open world meaningless, and forces the game into a boring gear threadmill with mandatory level cap increases every expansion and all the yada yada that's been done a million times already.
PVE does not equal raiding, just with a little hint of imagination I can come up with a dozen ways for PVE content that is not raiding. Dont get me wrong, I think raiding should be part of PVE endgame, because obviously there's people who like that, but talking about raiding as if it was the only way to PVE makes me wonder if one truly even wants to play mmorpgs.
Just go take a look at Carbine and Wildstar, which they claim is aimed at raiders, which they also claimed is 1% of people that play MMOs.
As for WoW, I remember Blizzard put out some numbers a while back that showed the players of WoW that actually took part in raid content was the smallest sub section of the player base.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
I haven't bought the game yet due my suspicions from the beta about a lack of group PvE focus beyond 4 man however these trials do seem promising. It's the sort of thing that should of been in the game at launch to counter balance all the PvP stuff however all we've heard so far is words so I'm not going to throw my money at zenimax until I've seen what exactly these trials are and whether it's worthy PvE content.
Life IS Feudal
Owning=/= Playing..... I did play the game quite a bit over 3 different weekends.The rest of this was asking questions you really wouldn't know if you played or didn't... Craglorn is not in the game yet. Not to mention most are not at endgame.... I can also well, you know.. Read.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I guess it's understandable that players want to see their favorite type of content in the games they think look interesting, however, I also find it strange how some players try to push their style of play on other games, while acting like the game is wrong for not having feature x or y.
The truth is, that making good gameplay systems is hard. Making good content is hard, and nobody has really managed to launch a MMO with all the big feature planes covered.
Elder Scrolls has launched with a deep and complex RvRvR system, it has deep crafting. Right there you have two major infastructure styles of play not supported by WoW years later. Not even WoW launched with dedicated PvP system nor raids.
I don't think all games needs to offer the same things to be good. Guild Wars 2 is as good as it is because they didn't dedicate vast amounts of their resources from other systems to make raids. PvP in ESO wouldn't be so grand and good had they used 50% of those resources to make raids. Most likely you would have ended up with bad Raids AND bad PvP.
Of course that is speculation, but I truly think it's better to be better at fewer things, and then add from there. Zenimax and ArenaNet have my respect from not hoping on a band wagon and just adding raids like it was some status quo.
We need different games. I dislike raids myself. It's way to time consuming for my playstyle, so for me it's good to have raid less games.
Well then you are really out of luck. there are not goig to be raids, Particularly becuase that doesn't exactly fit into the game world. Still, I think it "could" be possible to fit them in after a fashion by introducing oblvion gates people could enter with a boss at the end, but that's just my thought.
The closest thing will be the "epic dungeons".
There is a link around here somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.
As far as "end game" you have two more factions of pve content.
from Matt Firor:
ESO has a huge advantage over other startup MMOs in that it’s built on a successful franchise, but how are you handling sustainability post-launch? What sort of content rollout schedule should players expect?
We have been working on post-launch content for many months now – our first post-launch package, Craglorn, is our first Adventure Zone. It introduces Trials, a large-group competitive PvE endgame, four-man Veteran Dungeons, a Death Recap screen so you can see who or what killed you, and an entire overworld designed for groups. While the content packages we have will range in feature sets, Craglorn illustrates the kind of commitment we have to providing regular content to our players. Over time, you’ll get new systems, new zones, new quests, stories, and lots more.
http://time.com/48728/elder-scrolls-online-interview/
this is from Maria Aliprando.
End Game Content
So you can absolutely can finish your story at the level 50, but at the time you hit level 50 you will have about 30% of your skills. You are able to get many more skills as you explore through the game.
Once you hit level 50 you have a couple of different options:
Once you have finished content on your alliance territory, you can pick one of the other alliances and do their quests. Then you can pick the third alliance. So you can potentially explore all Tamriel with one character regardless you alliance choice. Each alliance is about 120 to 150 hours depending on how you go through it.
Post Launch
We have pretty aggressive post launch schedule. Imperial city is under siege and we will be involving the story of the Imperial city post launch. We will also be introducing the justice system. Right now you can steal thing from the table and nobody is going really stop you. Justice system will affect all theft mechanics. We will also be introducing Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood with new story and quest lines.
http://elderscrollsonline.info/news/emperor-post-launch-justice-system
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hardly enough time. I think you should play the game first because most of what you say is just what you have read on the forums.
Master Dungeons and 12 man trials ARE end game PvE. 12 man trials sound great. It sounds just like 12 man raiding without the endless wiping.
I don't see the problem here. If you run out of content you can always switch to Wildstar with its 40 man raiding. In the meantime I am keen on the questing and leveling content in ESO. The voice acting is really excellent in this game - and there is a ton of it. And the stories make sense..
I don't know how people loved the questing in FFXIV - I thought it was impossibly convoluted with awful voice acting. This is the best questing MMO I have ever played. The only issue is make sure you are in lockstep with your friends because the instancing/ phasing can be harsh.
IN reference to what exactly that I've said? AM I not supposed to share my experience on what I have seen or read? WIll I see this same point from you toward someone who posts more negatively by chance? Or will you continue to berate anyone who says something like this to them?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ofcourse you are but like i said once you sink atleast 50 to 100 hours in live version your opinions might change a lot both in positive as well as negative terms.
I would never base my thoughts on what i read on these forums though.
I don't care if people post negative or positive about the game however i do prefer that person giving his opinions has first hand experince with the game.
That goes without saying, but what point are you making toward me that doesn't apply to everyone here?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How is 30+ hrs not hands on experience?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Because came has been changing almost daily since beta. And you couldn't gone too far in beta to have a very informed opinion about the game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
cause he's complaining about 'endgame' and he's not even lvl 50 yet.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson