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Primary reason new mmos fail is because the player has no freedom or impact
brentapps
Member Posts: 12
When I played my first mmo's back in about year 2000, what really drew me in was the idea of this world where I could do anything I wanted but also that It was bigger than myself. I read an article on star wars galaxies and the idea of darth vader just randomly being somewhere in the universe to fight for only one player in the game seemed like such an appealing concept. I had an idea of a game that was a virtual world, where every player had the chance to do anything they wanted to do. I played runescape and everquest and I loved it... the freedom to do anything, to get stronger and try to see new areas and explore new things, are what really drew me in and made me want to play. The worlds were dangerous also, if you made mistakes you could die and it sort of felt like the world didn't care about your existence. Everything existed how it was because that's how it was, and it was the players job to successfully navigate it. It was not the worlds job to make it easy for the player. In addition, you understood that other players mattered. If you grew strong, you could compete with them, work with them, or trade with them. I wanted to be part of the best players... at the time I was merely a peasant, but I wanted to be like those high level players with amazing gear that I saw walking around. People had a way to differentiate themselves and exist as their own entity. You had a chance to interact with others and you had a feeling for your place in the world and theirs.
In the current evolution of the industry, there's just no feeling of importance or freedom when you play. Game companies CAN'T trick players into thinking they matter with phasing and elaborate quests... I feel like it's an insult to our intelligence. When I played elder scrolls recently, I honestly felt like everyone else was an npc. Because of the mega server, chances are I'm not gonna see any of these random people running around again. There's nothing special about them to differentiate them from the rest of the world. I'm just running around this world, exploring, doing tasks for random people, for no purpose at all. When I played ESO I felt like I was alone playing a single player game with random people running around me that had zero impact on my experience. I didn't feel like I was part of anything at all really. You can explore but it doesn't feel like meaningful exploring... there is no where to really go, you can't explore like in eq or runescape and end up in some cool new useful area where you could actually do something. In modern mmos, when you explore you don't really find anything new, just higher level areas that you can't do anything in. There's no real sense of risk or danger, you don't feel like there's any way you can mess up.
TLDR: It's gotten boring because you no longer have any choice or any real risk or danger. There isn't really any sense of community anymore. You're just going through these scripted tasks that have no impact on anything.
Comments
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
I believe most new mmos have been monetary failures though. Either they damaged some popular brand or just didn't generate as much profit as expected. I think the reason it's like this is companies just don't get it... they just don't understand what gamers want.
If I had to pin it on a few things, I'd say
The first problem is they're almost all identical, so people get bored faster.
The gameplay that is there is almost entire solo centric, which means you make litttle to no lasting relationships in the game, so people quit even faster.
And the final recipe is, newer MMOs try so hard to be like singleplayer games, so people play them like singleplayer games, and when content is done, they leave.
No unique features, no social glue, no freedom. There's a reason even Rift, arguably the most well recieved boring WoW clone, died almost right away. Whereas classic MMOs didn't hit their peaks until years later.
The weirdest part is... MMOs almost exist in a void where common business sense doesn't work. In most business, you copy what works (WoW) and improve on it and people will go to it. Not here, as WoW was a fluke and the reasons it works cannot be repeated. But publishers don't get that.
The WoW clone design has led to so many different financial failures, from Age of Conan, to Rift, to SWTOR, and yet people keep trying. Hell, the most popular IP on the planet, Lord of the Rings, lost almost all its prerelease momentum when it changed from Middle Earth Online sandbox to LotRO WoW clone, and never really recovered.
People keep voting with their wallets but nothings been changing, until VERY recently.
You would believe wrongly then. While there have been some failures the majority of MMOs released in recent years have made money for their companies. Have they been WoW level profits? No. WoW is a special case that so many companies strive to emulate and failed. However the failure was not losing money on the game but a failure to reach WoW levels during WoW's prime. And trust me, companies do know what the MAJORITY of the market wants. Your statement would be more factual if you said "... what jaded veterans who hang out at MMORPG.com want."
... and before you get pissy, I consider myself one of those jaded vets.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Totally agree. I was reading another thread on sandboxing/emergent gameplay and it was like *flash* HEY that's what I miss.
It sounds silly to say, but I don't get the choice to play a nobody and I miss that. You're always the star of the show, in a brightly gilded box of set actions. An elaborate puppet show. It's nice to be quiet and in the background and just do what you enjoy.
I miss having to band together for sheer survival in a harsh, expansive world. I know a lot of people really enjoy being able to play in an MMO while soloing, but that's not really me.
1 - Devs dont have the courage to make more freedom mmorpgs because the risk of failure is bigger then a pure themepark. When put alot of freedom in the hands of the players, if not well done will become a tottaly mess where only a few have fun, and only a few are not enouph to suport the game. We need devs with balls to try out diferente paths.
2 - Players are lazy to interect with others and play mmos like mmos. Even in pure themeparks there is no need to play the adventure alone, i often find players that they just WANT TO PLAY ALONE. Some players complain that there is no mmo feeling on game X or Y and they dont even try to play with others and experience the mmo part, they expecting that the game force to do that... weird.
I wonder if that is something new, or, if past games, like EQ, had allowed more solo progress options, would it have been the same as it is today, with most choosing to solo.
1. I don't think this has to be a case of sandbox vs themepark. I feel like a lot of old mmos were basically themeparks but you had the option to do things in whatever order you wanted. Nothing really told you to do something or not do something, the rides were just there and you could go on them as much or as little as you wanted.
2. I feel like this is flawed because when I played project 1999 recently, an eq emulator, I still played fairly similarly to how I did back when I used to play. I would solo when I wanted to solo, I would group when I wanted to group. But even when I solod I still felt like I was part of an mmo. So I think it's largely bad game design that causes these issues. I've also played another more modern mmo called forsaken world that captures the sense of community from older games but failed in a lot of other aspects. So it's not really laziness or just random luck that causes this.
Yes, you are right. People should stop bringing in the sandbox vs themepark battle into every thread, because this is not about it at all.
The problem is much bigger, it applies to entire gaming industry, not mmo exclusive. The same trend is happening everywere. It is the devolution of games into movies.
People used to play for interesting mechanics alone. With time plot started to appear in video games and took dominant role. Then people decided they like flashy things more than plot or gameplay, so graphics became 90% of focus for developers. People realized that voice acting makes games look more like movies, so all the money went there. Not so long ago games became interactive movies, where you just watch a movie and every few seconds you are interupted to confirm next move, just to have the illusion you are doing something. Now people watch twitch and youtubers, because it turned out it is just better to watch someone else play....
What is next? Games that play themselves....
You can go even further, your grandpa will explain you how everything you are doing now is more dumbed down and shallow, than they did back in the days. This trend is years old now.
For a game to be unscripted, you have to write the story. That means no quests, no lore, no nothing... just open fields of nothingness. Then you build upon that nothingness by creating creatures and the like. If any of this exists before you arrive, it is scripted. They've defined the world already. So you can't tell me that games of old were any less scripted than they are today. They're easier today due to conveniences but they certainly aren't any less scripted.
Games fail today because your bored with them. Been there, so done that. That's the difference between now and then, you didn't play a gazillion versions of the same thing back then... oh wait, you did... it was called arcade games and you moved on from them to MMOs because they were totally different.
1- I use the word themepark to show a game that u go from point A to B with no other option, and normally you can do it solo. I dont defend pure sandbox cause im to casual for that kind of games (play around 20h a week), but i confess they cal my attention
I Like to see more progression options in-game and not only one, i agree with that.
2 - On this point i try to cal attention to a huge group of players we have nowdays in mmos (the solo ones), its tottaly diferente for the majory of players 10 years ago. I like to have the option to play solo or in group, im not saying that there isnt bad designs, ofc they are, but theres alot of players (to many imo) that avoid interection with others and contibute to make the "world" disconnect. Is not only devs fault.
TBH, I want games. Virtual worlds are a completely different beast to games.
Besides, I don't want to live in a virtual world where I'm just sat in front of a computer 24/7 with a keyboard in one hand, and a mouse in the other.
The tech just isn't there for me to give a rats ass about these worlds.
Bang on OP. Playing ESO at the moment, but like someone said - they are sick of being the worlds saviour yet again (along with the other thousands beside you) There is no story for you to make - it's already there. Sadly I am on here posting instead of playing ESO. I like the game to be honest, but feel burnt out with quest after quest after quest and have had enough for one day. All cleverly done but I just do not feel that interested in the world.
Nothing I do will make any difference at all and it is all so linear. This is Guild Wars with a different lore. Really cannot see a justification for a monthly sub. I was intending to sub but will struggle to even use my current box game time. Back to Skyrim for me. Same stuff but that's what Skyrim is. ESO is a solo game with a sub and not too much of interest going on. Even the excitement of finding a chest is a dud... green armour the same as the mobs around it drop. Boring... sorry.
I didnt play EQ, my adventure in mmorpgs started with L2 C4. (and it was a amazing experience). So no idea how is/was the comunity in EQ.
2. Must old games did not have ways to impact the game either. The player actually impacting the game has always been a rare occurrence. So your second premise is false.
That being said I think that if the players could impact it in don't small personal way that doesn't impact other people it will help games.
pretty much this. To elaborate:
Take EQ as an example .. what freedom? You just kill, kill and kill some more. In fact, you don't even have the option to do quests when leveling up, or run instanced dungeons.
And freedom is over-rated. Many successful SP games have nothing but linear story lines. Players obviously like those.
MMORPGs are just not doing it well enough.
Yes, deviate just a little from the script or arrows that point you through the game and it feels like you look behind a Movie set and discover that this great looking 1920's New York Street is just a facade made out of wood and cardboard.
Games are not made for people who are really devoted to certain things anymore. For instance star wars, star trek, indiana jones, and dungeons and dragons were niche things. Nintendo and PCs were a niche thing once upon a time. The small group of liked things like this were really into them and invested a lot of time in them. There wasn't a whole lot of entertainment at the time so you were stuck with what you had. This had it's ups and downs. We were a devoted group and learned used our imaginations to expand on what was there since it wasn't very much. A lot of things that came about were because of the fans. People who grew up this way were more prone to experimentation with no google, gps, or person to fix their problems. They just had to make due with what they had.
Fast forward to today and there is mass marketing everywhere. Everyone is trying to make everything appeal to mass market in order to generate more revenue. Kids no longer need to spend their time on a few things or find ways to spend their free time. They are always busy with new entertainment coming out or commitments in real life. No longer do parents let kids rule themselves (even if kids may think they rule themselves). When I was young parents worked and left you home. You policed yourself and did what you wanted to do. Now parents fill their kids days up with a lot of different tasks. This is not worse, but all of this entertainment, technology, and responsibility has led to a very different form of mass appeal entertainment that has all but destroyed the concept of having people dedicate their time to something like a fantasy world heavily. They are just looking for a quick story to jump in and out of. There are also tuns of indie games to choose from now. There are so many that it's impossible to have a long term focus on just one game. It's hard enough to find one indie game you like with all the ones that are available to try. This is part of the problem in general. There are just too many games. Some of the old games we played to death like Diablo and Baldur's Gate 2 would be lost in today's game industry.
I keep hope that we will one day see a return to more in depth worlds, but even if a game does will I find it or support it with all the game out there? Will it have that same magic feeling that something completely innovative and new has like Ultima Online and Everquest did? A place where there were no preconceived notions of what an MMO should be, what restrictions needed to be in place, or how to appeal to a mass market of people. To me a lot of what made those games magic was the time they were created in and that they no restrictions due to lack of knowledge and lack of trying to appeal to any specific group of people, or having any preconceived notions of what an MMORPG should be. It was just a bunch of D&D and computer Nerds trying to make a game they thought would be fun to play. Part of what I feel is unappealing about entertainment today is all the restrictions in place to not offend anyone and to achieve mass appeal. I don't think that time of freedom we enjoyed in the 90s will ever come back though. Everything is moving towards being heavily marketed, locked down, and achieving mass appeal. Those that aren't are a dime a dozen and being lost in the very large indie market.
I agree. The difference between you and me is that I like this new world. I don't want to dedicate to any entertainment. To me, i like a variety of entertainment. Sure some games i play more than others .. but it is not driven by necessity but natural fun.
It is just more fun to me that i can be entertained so many ways from video games (with many genre to choose from), to tv, movies, anime and novels.
MMORPGs .... the old form that requires player dedication, is not keeping pace with modern entertainment. They can be ignored and wither away, or they can adapt and survive.
To me, either way is fine .. if they want player dedication .. too bad .. i will just do something else. It is not like i don't have another 100 options of how to have fun. If they adapt and want some of my time ... well .. i will see how they stack up with other options. Choices are good.
I don't ready like how MMORPGs designed nowadays ,
but i have to say that those game wasn't fail to sell , even not level of world of Warcraft , they sill bring profit back.
And since those game only arm to sell more box then change to F2P for short term player , the developers don't want to build up strong community
because they need to sell next games for more cash.
It seem like MMORPG players ready lost . It feel bitter but we must face it ,
very funny , massive multiplayer online games make for single player mass
lol
how ironic.
This is something I fight for with my kids. My daycare people get really confused when I say "no, let them be bored." I love seeing what their imaginations create. It's also a reason why I love letting them play things like Minecraft (in creative mode) where they can explore and experiment.
It's interesting though to see what they come up with when they're given complete freedom inside a world. Kids never have a problem with a blank piece of paper, but at the same time putting them inside a defined environment like Minecraft means amazing experimentation. I guess I always hope it makes them consider alternate application of real-world objects and rules.
I know we're all a little past the age where MMOs could be considered character-developing tools, but I can see the same mindset a lot in the way I play. I love games that let me take advantage of that.